LK...

[CaPeFeAr]

what are you using to edit the sprites?? i have bryce4 and i think it will but i dont have a clue how to use it. i also have corel,psp7, and adobe....if that helps.

[Lord Krazy]

I use psp7 and adobe too
I will be using other animation
software later to render new sprites
but at first we are going to repaint the existing ones.To use adobe to optimum
you should use illistrator streamline
and so on but it depends on what you want
to do.PSP7 for lbms.
I presume you have bifreader 2.1
or else all the other stuff is no good.
We are three and we all know a bit of this and a bit if that.Two of us do most of the work ant other is an adviser on thec issues
So my best resources so far are my friends

No matter what way or what you use it is hard and it will take time.We still
don't have a set proceedure but when
we do we will document it.

Do you understand the relation to the action
page?
Because of the way it works it's possible to mix and match things replace one thing with another so in the shogun instance you can
just use the original sprite as they are just reconfigure the actionpages to match
without drawing a single pixel.Well in
theory ant way .I'v already done it to
a couple and Bar put his naggies in.

Later
LK

[CaPeFeAr]

the action pages for shogun are the exact same size and file type as mtw... could we trick the game by re-naming these pages for units that the game knows? can it be that simple?? im scared to try http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif i did this with other graphics in the game... im almost sure it doesnt check for file size.

if its not that simple but its just a matter of cut and paste.... i do understand about the 6 angles and the layout of the action pages.... and id be glad to help with the stw units but would need some guidence.... unless it is realy as simple as you say!
thanks lk http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Lord Krazy]

Shit did I say simple sorry http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
I THINK it should be ok I'm in the middle
of something right now but tomorrow I will
give this the attention it deserves.
For the moment lets just what we can't do
by changing numbers we should be able to do with cut and paste.As long as they are
12 frame bifs with the angles we need which
they should be there is no reason
why we can not get them to work.
I tried the arquebuis last week
a quick ten minute sort the action
numbers not much tought and the only
problem I had was a few camra angles
and Barocca put his naggies so
I just can't see why not.
It's still hard but you got what it takes to
do this job the willingness.So I will
help you on this one no probs and I'm
sure if turns out to be easy enough
everybody will help on this one.
You can count me in one way or the
other.
regards

LK

[Axelthorpe]

Hi LK

I've made a model in 3DStudio, and i'm wondering is it the only way to do it by rendering up every animation, cutting out the soldier and paste it on the frames?

Should the texture be neon-green and pink, for the game to change to the faction colours?

Here's a render:
http://m1.457.telia.com/~u45703849/Karo.jpg
A Swedish "Karolin" pikeman from the early 18th century. (the pike was added for the render)

http://m1.457.telia.com/~u45703849/Karoliner.jpg
An old oil-painting of "karoliner".

------------------
Leif Thörn
thorns@telia.com

[This message has been edited by Axelthorpe (edited 10-23-2002).]

[Lord Krazy]

Alex very nice.
This a very good method if one
can afford such software.
You are using a similar
ideas to me except I have
not done much work on the unit
animation yet as I want to
see if we can add bifs
in future.The roman LBA is working
was done mostly psp7 and adobe
with copy and paste but alot of
art work too.
Now if you are willing to model
the skins for people who don't have
this software that would be nice.
It would also require you to be
dedicated and nutts so I would
understand if you tought it was
a bad idea.
For example you can make wireframe
models of the sprites that exist
and apply the skins provided.
My software needs upgrading as I'm
using a cluttsy moddeler so I won't
be doing this until then.
Then we would not need to rewrite the
weapons pages you see.

As for the floresent colours they are your
faction colours.If you do not want
your units to display faction colours
don't use them.Otherwise do in the fashion
you wish.The English only seem to display
one colour and others two so bare this in
mind.That is why you have two floresent
colours one to attract each faction
colour so if you want only one colour
just use one floresent.I think he looks
just fine though.

If you think what you do is labourious
you should try the lesser mortal way
and use cheap software http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Anyway this is great and if you need
any help just ask.We will if we can.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[CaPeFeAr]

i still dont understand why we just cant rename these fudal foot knights or something... did you say the camera angles are different?

http://www.fearfulways.com/pics/NoDa_f1.jpg

edit: i saved these in jpg for quick loading but of course there are original bifs.
http://www.fearfulways.com/pics/Noda_H_f1.jpg


[This message has been edited by CaPeFeAr (edited 10-24-2002).]

[CaPeFeAr]

well... i just did a very quick test... and here is a screenshot of some english nd's

http://www.fearfulways.com/pics/nd.jpg


i see what you mean about the action pages now... the units tended to phase out every so often... and the sprites were looping. but the good thing is that the graphics seem to work without moding...only need to fix the numbers in the txt file.

[This message has been edited by CaPeFeAr (edited 10-24-2002).]

[Lord Krazy]

Exactly big C
We have been adding other models
today, that we created,
with the same process.
The image was created out side the
game and we sort of morffed it in
for the lack of a better word.
This has helped me to understand
a bit better how to implement
the shogun units .
I'll start working on the actionpages
later to see if thier is a pattern
or if we just have to go through
it frame by frame which is a problem
just a pain but no pain no need for
pain killers ,or something like that http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

I'll do an archer if you wish to work
on another if you have time of course
and see what happens.
Barocca could help big time on this.
I think a request to bar for his naggie
page is in order.
I'll aproach from the front and you
flank him.I never flank on the first
dateP

Regards
LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Lord Krazy]

btw some of the action page faults are
obvious from the screenshot.If the image
has aslice missing like above can be
because the actionpage coords do not
define correctly the box in the bif
where the sprite resides and cut's
out that portion so if you go to the low
bif you can define which image is
where by comparing it to the action
page and then work out the order.
I know this is a bit vauge but I'm
a bit tired.
Later

LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[NagatsukaShumi]

No Dachi's will be a pretty big part of my up-coming MOD, or atleast their render will be. All hail LK and the rest of the unit modders!

------------------
Power to the Sultan!
-Clan Seljuk
http://img.seznam.cz/img_novinky/mcchicken_head.gif.gif -The McChicken Head, official Seljuk Mascot

[NagatsukaShumi]

Say, whoever posted the No Dachi's, could you zoom in on them? It'd give me a better picture on what they look like.

------------------
Power to the Sultan!
-Clan Seljuk
http://img.seznam.cz/img_novinky/mcchicken_head.gif.gif -The McChicken Head, official Seljuk Mascot

[barocca]

LK

you have the MTW version of the Naginata action page,

I can't believe you've forgotten?

Quote Originally posted by barocca:
i placed the nagi bif in the PlateS folder,
and added an entry for them in the unit_prod file,

but i had to rename the Nagi bifs to PlateS because of the recognition "error"

meaning i had to "sacrifice" the PlateS unit....

here's the actions page,

walk
11 53 54 64 78 124
16 55 0 130 29 190
17 55 227 196 255 255
13 54 137 63 161 122
run
11 57 28 64 52 127
14 57 108 63 135 124
15 56 31 129 66 190
9 54 80 63 106 122
idle
11 57 0 64 23 128
18 57 65 0 94 61
18 56 157 0 188 61
11 53 68 134 92 192
die
25 45 94 137 138 192
26 43 197 142 256 194
23 41 140 144 195 195
21 42 114 197 159 255
charge
11 57 28 64 52 127
14 57 108 63 135 124
15 56 31 129 66 190
9 54 80 63 106 122
fight
19 54 0 192 50 255
29 54 96 0 155 61
32 52 0 0 63 62
20 47 216 58 255 116

this was on my Mtw demo backup CD2,
you know with all the fiddling we did with the demo i have THREE FULL CD's of files!!!
( 2 full modded variants of the demo on each CD - plus all our notes and rantings.. )[/QUOTE]

[CaPeFeAr]

how do you determine the numbers in the action and ditty pages. is it trial by error or is there a more sound way of altering them?

naga: which one of the pics would you like to see a zoom on....ive already posed 70kb of pics in this thread im hessitant to overdue it so i dont want to post zoom shots of all 3 http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif if you like i can just post the original tga screen capture on my website and u can download it.

[This message has been edited by CaPeFeAr (edited 10-24-2002).]

[Axelthorpe]

Quote Originally posted by Lord Krazy:
Alex very nice.
This a very good method if one
can afford such software.
You are using a similar
ideas to me except I have
not done much work on the unit
animation yet as I want to
see if we can add bifs
in future.The roman LBA is working
was done mostly psp7 and adobe
with copy and paste but alot of
art work too.
Now if you are willing to model
the skins for people who don't have
this software that would be nice.
It would also require you to be
dedicated and nutts so I would
understand if you tought it was
a bad idea.
For example you can make wireframe
models of the sprites that exist
and apply the skins provided.
My software needs upgrading as I'm
using a cluttsy moddeler so I won't
be doing this until then.
Then we would not need to rewrite the
weapons pages you see.

As for the floresent colours they are your
faction colours.If you do not want
your units to display faction colours
don't use them.Otherwise do in the fashion
you wish.The English only seem to display
one colour and others two so bare this in
mind.That is why you have two floresent
colours one to attract each faction
colour so if you want only one colour
just use one floresent.I think he looks
just fine though.

If you think what you do is labourious
you should try the lesser mortal way
and use cheap software http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Anyway this is great and if you need
any help just ask.We will if we can.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[/QUOTE]

Hi again LK

I will, of course, make units that people ask me for, but for now I will concentrate on this one, and try to get it into the game, before anything else.

And for everyone’s notice this is my first "human" model so it's pretty new for me. Only this simple model took, almost 4 days to do so far.

About the animations, the model I did is a pikeman, which texture should I use? And what animations are needed?
Stand, walk, run, attack and die? And from how many angels?

Another thing http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif, the florescent colours, if I don't use 'em, the model will be blue and yellow, all the time, don't it. That means I have to do a set of renders for every faction in the game, isn't that right? Makin' a fkn headache. Could be done easier by doing animations for it, and just render it like a movie. Just have to learn it first.

------------------
Leif Thörn
thorns@telia.com

[Stefan the Berserker]

Seems somebody has the same prob than I had with my Conquisatores try to make a mod for Shogun with MTW-Data...

Ashi.txt is Actions Diddy folder Info.
AshiPage.txt is Actions Page folder Info.
And the Info from Spears folder has to be turned into Weopons folders.

In direction MTW that works without probs, but in direction Shogun... Uh, Oh! My Nightmare is back!

[Stefan the Berserker]

I tried to make new animation with Photos... Gah, that was funny!!! I look so idiotic with toy-weapons and a Costume! But result was quite good... I'm still working on that try. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Lord Krazy]

Bar I have your naggis alright
and the actionpages for Warlords
from your download
but I tought
on the other thing
you wrote something like
this is just an example
and I tought it was just
an example as it didn't
quite look like the numbers
I expected to see.
Serves me right for not asking for clarification.
Oh well, all's well, that ends well http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
Not that I'm saying it's over.
It's only got started http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
Thanks,

LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Lord Krazy]

Alex I'll get back to you
soon,some choices to make
on how to proceede colours
no colours and the rest.

For starter just get a few torsos
from relevent angels
open the bif
with bifreader2.1
and you will choose the angels there
they don't have to be exact
but it helps
remove torso on bif
and paste your image
onto existing legs
in the bif see how it goes.
You do understand how to
compile the bifs,don't you?
it's all in the read me
with the bifreader.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[Lord Krazy]

Just in case anyone is interested
to implement the above actionpage
kindy provided by the resident
all being ever peasant sorry I
meant presant Barocca
is a perfect as if you need me to
tell ya that example how "simple"
this process is.
You just get his actionpage
and put it in GhaziInfantry
for simplicity sake as it's the
only unit for the Dervish bif
and put the naggi bif in
the dervish folder and name it dervish
and dervish_H accordingly and that's it.
You have Shogun on tour and give me
a few day's till after I post
the first version of the other thing
I'm working on and I'll try implement
a few more.

So like I said earlier I'll start with
archers and xbows as this will help
our other mod (new mongols too greedy I know)
let me know if you got one done
or your doing one, so I can skip it.
_____________________________________________

As soon as the other lot saw them they
ran

How about the japs invaded russia
and slowly advanced across the plain.

caus I ain't doing the map scpipts too
two hands half a brain leads to
capacity override http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Regards
Krazy

All thanks as I said before on this
should be directed to barocca ok.

[fenir]

Just a question, I have Photoshop6, can I use that? I haven't installed it since I got it, but was wondering if it was any good?

PSP7 Is paint shop pro?

And Adobe paint thingie?

Would I need them instead?

Thank you

fenir

[fenir]

Is photoshop ok to use? For the LBM files?

[Lord Krazy]

Quote Originally posted by fenir:
Is photoshop ok to use? For the LBM files?[/QUOTE]
_____________________________________________

In a word no.
Paint shop pro for lbms
or ms paint ,or gfx(which I do not recomend
as it can fry you monitor if you don't
know what you are doing, but it's
free and it wont mess up the pallet)
Thes are not the only things you can use
but I don't use other things so
I can't really talk about them.

Photo shop for bmps for bif exports
and imports for which you need
bifreader2.1 to extract and import
the frames.
ALLWAYS USE THE SAME BIF TO IMPORT
AND EXPORT THE FRAMES.

Example.
Extract frame to bmp from kearn.bif
then edit that bmp.DO NOT make a new bif with
the bif reader.When you have edited the bmp which came from the kearn then import
it back into the same bif you got it out of
i.e. kearn.bif.

If you do not do this it will not work.
You must use a bif that has the same pallet or it will not transfer the pallet
in the way it is diplayed in the
bmp.It can appear in a number of
fashions non of them any good to you.

I'm telling you about the bifreader because if want to make icons you must do bifs
for the review_panel and this is the ONLY way.This is not explained in the readme
in the bifreader I have so you might
want to add it ,if you don't have in it yours neither.

LK http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by Lord Krazy (edited 10-31-2002).]

[fenir]

Ok thanks Lord Krazy,

Just making sure I am going right here, rather than left.
So I extract the Bif file, and save as a bmp.

It's then the bmp that I edit, and then save back as a *.bif.

Is it the same for the lbm file?

Sorry for all this, but I am still learning slowly here, and have had some things not go well.

[antidotos]

To edit lbm files, first I create a copy in gfx and convert it into bmp.
Then I open it and edit it with "Gimp" (but you could probably use other graphic editors as long as they do not affect the palette (this is critical)).
Afterwards I reopen the edited bmp in gfx and save it into lbm format.
This way I have edited the lukmaps, changing some borders (and it works !)).
(I m in the process of creating a brand new map for my mod).

------------------
Never Use Signatures...

[Lord Krazy]

Writing the files that go with it
"c'est le chiant" to say the least!
Let me know how it goes.

Lk

[antidotos]

LK
I promiss you will be first informed when all the files are ready.
(I would be so glad to have some elephants by the way... !))
The main problems I have are with kings heroes and events.
Your command of French slang is amazing !
C'est au poil comme ça, y manque plus que le verlan...

------------------
Never Use Signatures...

[Lord Krazy]

cimer mon frere http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
tout les monde veut
les elephants.
Ge no comprend pa pour qoie.

You have problems with kings
because they are hard coded
putain!

say la veeee http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[fenir]

Antidotos,
thank you, I have used gimp before, but my linux box is down at presant http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

So I am stuck with windoze, but I have Paint shop Pro 7 at presant.
And as I am finding out, I am no genuis at graphics.

Thank the Big fella (god) that I backed up the files I played with. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

But I am still leanring, I have the files bif's and Lbm's all copied and in bmp format.

So now it is a play time until I find out how to use psp7.