that creepy creepy state... [Archive]

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Taffy_is_a_Taff

11-08-2005, 19:41

...yes, Pennsylvania.

Now I know that some of you are country boys from Pennsylvania and I want info on it, goshdarnit, because it sounds creepy in the best possible way.

What's up with that pow-wow German folk magic stuff?

All those hexes on barns and such?

Tell me you scary Penn people!!!

Reverend Joe

11-08-2005, 19:54

:laugh4: Hilarious... random anger. Almost as classic as the anti-amish tirades of the Beaver County Milita.

Too bad it's doomed to be locked.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

11-08-2005, 20:04

but but but...

I'm not angry, I just think that Pennsylvania sounds like a weird place in a dark yet fascinating way.

I'm being honest here.

e.g.,Gawain, did your Grandpa have magic symbols painted on his barns?

Big King Sanctaphrax

11-08-2005, 20:46

Too bad it's doomed to be locked.

It sounds like a legitimate request for information to me.

Beirut

11-08-2005, 20:48

Curiouser and curiouser...

Reverend Joe

11-08-2005, 21:41

It sounds like a legitimate request for information to me.

Having reread it, it actually does... odd. I guess that goes to show that you shouldn't read/post whilst under the influence of alcohol.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

11-08-2005, 22:37

Zorba:
would it make you feel better if I edited it to include a rant about those beardy cart-drivers? I can add *fist shaking* too.

Reverend Joe

11-09-2005, 03:27

Zorba:
would it make you feel better if I edited it to include a rant about those beardy cart-drivers? I can add *fist shaking* too.

I'll just provide a link to the Beaver County Milita (http://www.geocities.com/beaver_militia/). I don't think anything you could possibly post could equal the insanity of these mad militamen.

Kaiser of Arabia

11-09-2005, 03:43

Gregoshi

11-09-2005, 04:06

Well Taffy, there is no real "magic" - at least the way one typically thinks of magic and it is based on a myth. The common myth of the hex signs on the barns of the Pennsylvania "Dutch" is that they were to ward off evil spirits. The simpler and apparently more correct explanation is that they are just decorations (The Story of the Hex Sign (http://www.amishnews.com/featurearticles/Storyofhexsigns.htm)). If you want to see what hex signs look like, here is a link to an online hex sign catalog of a place I occassionally drive by in the town of Paradise: The Hex Place (http://www.800padutch.com/z/willchar.htm).

They are pretty cool to see on a barn and one of the things that gives some character to this part of Pennsylvania. BTW, I'm guessing the reason you think PA is creepy, is because it sounds similar to Transylvania - though I'm sure some of the odd news stories about PA folks posted in the Backroom this past year has helped with that creepy feeling you are getting.

Taffy_is_a_Taff

11-10-2005, 03:18

cheers,

nah, I find it creepy because I read all these books called things like "Weird U.S." and Pennsylvania comes over as a spooky place, especially in the country.

Also, the survival of some very old style German culture is quite groovy.

Disappointing to hear that the barns may not be painted with special symbols.

I want to find out more about the pow wow magic stuff. I have heard that it was a mixture of German and native folk magic (like charms, potions and all that stuff).

Any first hand knowledge from the PA boys?

Edit: and thanks for the links.

Edit: and is that medical curiosities museum in Philadelphia worth a visit?

Gregoshi

11-10-2005, 03:29

I don't know what you are referring to Taffy. Don't recall ever hearing about any "pow wow magic" having to do with the Pennsylvania Dutch (German) - and all my grandparents spoke Pennsylvania Dutch. Let's put it this way, if there is any such thing having to do with potions, charms, etc., it must be from long, long ago...unless there were too many beers being down at the local fire hall. ~:cheers:

Maybe if you cite a specific example it will help.

Edit: I don't know from personal experience if the medical curiosities museum is worth the visit, but it does look interesting from some of the Discovery Channel type shows I've seen about it. I say "interesting" if you aren't squeemish about such things.

Edit #2: I forgot to mention that I took a ghost walk tour of downtown Gettysburg last year with the family. That in itself was very goosebump-inducingly creepy.

English assassin

11-10-2005, 10:56

By strange coincidence my aunt-in-law lives in Pennsylvania and as a result I can catagorically confirm that witchcraft is alive and well in Pennsylvania.

Also, Philly cheese steaks are plainly the invention of Satan.

Gregoshi

11-10-2005, 14:05

Ea, there are lots of pretty rural areas of the state so that is entirely possible. They must also keep a very low profile because word of them doesn't get out to the rest of the state - even during the TV ratings "sweeps" months were the local TV news casts trot out all their really weird stories to attract viewers.:alien:

Taffy_is_a_Taff

11-10-2005, 17:34

Gregoshi:
I didn't want to do the wikipedia thing but I gave in and looked it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pow-wow_(folk_magic)

I was looking for any first hand knowledge of that.

English assassin

11-10-2005, 17:53

They must also keep a very low profile because word of them doesn't get out to the rest of the state

No, its because people who cross my aunt in law get turned into frogs and are in no condition to talk to the media. I'm telling you, even trips to NYC have to be carried out in conditions of extreme secrecy for fear that the evil harridan will find out we are in town and ride up on her broomstick.

Gregoshi

11-10-2005, 22:50

:frog: I have no idea what you are talking about Ea.

Taffy, I think your link was bad. Here's what I found (much to my surprise): Pow-wow folk magic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pow-wow_%28folk_magic%29). I've never heard of such a thing until now, but it might explain how my grandparents managed to provide and endless parade of food whenever we went there for a meal...and beyond.

Gregoshi

11-11-2005, 04:00

After thinking about this Pow-wow stuff, I decided to go to a higher authority. I emailed my dad and my aunt and uncle to see if they knew anything about it or if my grandparents ever talked about Pow-wow. Quite to my surprise, this was what my aunt had to say about it:

Hi Greg,
I sure have heard of Pow Wowing. Yes Mammy and Pappy and Mammy Up did talk about it. I will get back to you and share what I know later this evening... I also want to read what is on the web site. It might jolt my memory of things that I forgot. It is actually a Pa Dutch "Medicine Man ritual". There were people in the valley that were believed to have those powers. The most common one that I heard of was for warts. Les said he know someone who went for pow wowing to get rid of shingles and they went away over night by the powers or by coincidence. It was the lady who lived in the double house when they lived in back of Kimmels. It will be fun to refresh my memory.

I'll share further details as I get them. Thanks Taffy for opening up this unknown territory of my heritage. Ya learn something every day...

Gregoshi

11-11-2005, 15:28

Here is a little bit more from my aunt:

...Another incident that I heard about was about a lady who had a small child that she felt had a spell cast on him by an evil lady. The child cried excessively for a long period of time until the child pow wowed. The evil spirit was removed by the pow wower. Mammy talked about people believing in pow wowing because they didn't have any other ways to deal with their problems. She never talked about having the experience. There were pow wowers in the Pitman area when I was a child. I didn't know any by name. Mammy talked about people in living in the Valley View area but again never mentioned names. They never talked names of people who did this... Medicine really became more readily available by the forties and so there wasn't the need for pow wow. Also many of the customs and ways went by the way side...

One of the things mentioned is never eating chicken on New Years day or you will have to scratch for money all year - meaning it will not be a good financial year. Pork and sauerkraut bring abundance of wealth. It talks about sausage too - that is why we had stuffed pigs stomach or better known as hog maw for New Years. It was stuffed with potatoes, pork and smoked sausage.

Our Pa German heritage is fascinating. Unfortunately there was a time when people were ashamed of this heritage.

My wife and her family swear by the "pork and sauerkraut for New Years" custom, they have it every year - I'll eat the pork but I hate the sauerkraut.

Here is a web site my uncle found that he felt provided a good summary of the Pennsylvania Dutch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/classic/A730847 It also touches a little on Pow-wowing and some of the things mentioned by my aunt.

Another source my uncle found was a little more scholarly approach to Pow-wowing: Powwowing: A Persistent American Esoteric Tradition (http://www.esoteric.msu.edu/VolumeIV/Powwow.htm). What I found interesting about this "paper" was in the first section about the difficulties in tracking down information on Pow-wowing. Point #1 was my case - I'd never heard of it before. Point #2 touches on what my aunt said above about the shame of being "dutchy". I can attest to this point. I remember my grandmother ("Mammy" referenced by my aunt above) being embarassed everytime she heard her voice recorded. She'd say stuff like "Ahhh, I sound so dutchy. I sound so dumb." Anyway, also of interest in this paper, the author describes a couple of Pow-wows he had performed on himself.

As magic goes, Pow-wowing is rather mundane - more healing and preventative than turning people into frogs like Ea's aunt does. ~;) My aunt is going to check with some of her older relatives. If anything more of interest comes my way, I'll pass it on here.

Kagemusha

11-11-2005, 16:14

This sounds very intresting.Its nice to hear a living history that some one can provide,for a chance.I think this thread should be shipped to Monastery.:bow:

KukriKhan

11-11-2005, 16:21

I had forgotten all about this until you guys brought it up. I have a "pow-wow" story.

1974. My then-22 year old brother and his Pennsylvania-born bride moved from Detroit to rural northern Penn., where he hoped to find work as a sheet-metal guy. No luck, no job, wife unhappy...she suggests visiting the local 'pow-wow woman'.

They do, and she goes thru some ritual to insure their prosperity. Tom is supposed to pay her $10, in silver, from his first paycheck. Within a month, a job falls in his lap & Kathy gets pregnant.

Tom doesn't pay the woman.

7 months later, Kathy goes into labor. But there's no baby. It's psychosomatic; the big belly, the morning sickness, the achy back...all false.

Tom goes out and gets drunk, leaving Kathy in the hospital. Hours later, he plows his car into the rear of a Penn State Trooper's Cruiser, stopped at a railroad crossing. Cop was OK, Tom suffers 2 broken legs. He's charged with Assault on a Peace Officer, and escorted to the State Line...and warned to never return. He never does. Kathy divorces him.

Moral: pay the Lady, even if you don't believe.

Gregoshi

11-11-2005, 18:10

That is downright creepy Kukri. Do you know what the ritual involved?

kagamusha, a small sorrow I have about this pow-wow stuff is, had it come up about 3-4 years ago, I'd have had 3 Pennsylvania Dutch grandparents from which to get even more about this topic. I have one grandmother still living but her memory comes and goes from day to day and lately it is more going than coming. I'd sure would have liked to have talked to them about this.