unique hero names

[dclare4]

Hi all,

I'm making a total conversion mod for MTW and I was wondering if you guys could help me. As you've probably noticed, each faction has its own unique heroes. I usually play England and I know they get John Mercadier, William Marshal and Simon de Montfort. Would you guys be able to tell me the hero names of the other cultures? Like what would HRE, France, Castile, Byzantium, Egypt, Turkey, etc get?

Thanks for your help in advance!
Gilbert de Clare

[barocca]

now this IS a tricky one

in changes they are grouped by nation,
in names they are not

and they are never listed in a straight array, we have lists of forenames and lists of surnames---
who is who is anybody's guess

The lists do not appear to be in logical order,
there are surnames without the matching forenames, and forenames without the matching surnames...
i am confused,
sorry,

even lining the lists up besides each other does not produce proper match's!

!!!!!!!!!!!!

take Llewellyn ap Gruffydd for example.
his last name appears in the Welsh Surname List (ap Gruffydd)
yet Llewellyn appears only in the hero's forename list, (he DOES appear in game)
of course not to be confused with Gruffydd ap Llewellyn - ANOTHER Welsh Hero, who does not even get a look in!!!

sorry, this is most likely a history maniacs Q - or a DEV Q,
'cause if anyone should have a full list of the Heroe's in the game it should be the Developers

[ap means son of, and there were several generations of kids naming their sons after their fathers, so the G-ap-L, L-ap-G, G-ap-L, L-ap-G, G-ap-L, L-ap-G, G-ap-L gets very confusing...]

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 10-11-2002).]

[Lord Krazy]

where have u been putting them?
in names.txt?
or changes.txt?
or both?

LK?

[barocca]

what he wants is a list of the hero's,

but the names listed in names and changes do not "match"
i find it impossible to "generate" a proper list from the lists in those files...

[Lord Krazy]

are u sure they have to match,I tought
I read somewhere that you had to use
a name that was associated with the faction.
Have you tried to add any heros yet?
I think I managed to get one with
names I put in,but it wasn't what I was trying to do at the time so I'll c if I find that mod and do it again ,if I did it in
the first place.

LK

[GilJaysmith]

The list of heroes is hardcoded at the moment. I'll extract it and post it if you're interested.

[Lord Krazy]

Just for the sake of knowing,no thanks.
If the moment comes that they are no
longer hardcoded then I would be interested
thanks.

LK.

[Maniaces]

Ehm, lets try this again:

Would it perhaps be possible sometime in the future to move the list of heroes from the code to the textfiles, if it's not too much trouble? It would greatly help those of us that are trying to make a more historical campaign mod...

Like I said, if it's not too much trouble sometime in the future...Thanx

[barocca]

GilJay
YES PLEASE

It would be nice to have a list of Heroe's
we could then research the Heroe's, and give the players some insight into who they were, what they accomplished, etc.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

could you also give some clues of how and when Heroe's come into play??

thanks
B

[dclare4]

Actually I believe I know how to change them. See, all the document/text type files have entries with braces followed by entries with parenthesis or something. The first are usually what the computer recognizes like FN_ALMOHAD or LEADER_XYZ and the latter are what we humans read like Almohad Empire or Sharif Ali or something. Thus you don't mess with the former but can do what you want with the latter. I'm the middle of a TC mod for MTW and historical heroes and characters would be a HUGE plus for this specific time period. I've been able to successfully change most of the words, phrases, names, down to what you read for events and descriptions and even tooltips. But I do need to know w/c specific heroes go with what faction as I'd rather not have hero-so-and-so go with this faction when historically he was its most bitter enemy!!

Sieur Giljay if you would be so kind to post up the list I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thanks again,
Gilbert de Clare

[dclare4]

To elaborate... lets say you have the hero in Valencia, El Cid... the hardcoded name w/c the computer will and should ALWAYS read is El - Cid but you can change the following name to read Arnold - Schwartzenegger or Norman - Schwartzkopf if you are so inclined.

Regards,
Gilbert de Clare

[dclare4]

Furthermore, I do know that the Kings and rulers of most places do not have the names of their initial leaders randomized (you always get William II for Early, John for High and Edward II for Late Medieval England). I also know that in most cases except perhaps where determined by election or tribal supremacy (like Egypt I think!) the family name that the royal uncles assume when demoted to general (two generations after their bro or dad has passed away) is constant. Thus the Polish are always Jagielloncyk, English always Plantagenet, etc.

Now if you gentlemen would be so kind, would be very grateful to know the other name/surname combinations for kings and heroes.

Thanks very much,

Gilbert de Clare

[dclare4]

Hi there,

I hope I didn't sound like a know it all snob back there. I tend to rub people the wrong way when I start using flowery language I guess. Hope no one took offense...

Would you please post the listing? Thanks,

Sorry if I offended anyone.

Gilbert de Clare

[Lord Krazy]

Quote Originally posted by barocca:
GilJay
YES PLEASE

It would be nice to have a list of Heroe's
we could then research the Heroe's, and give the players some insight into who they were, what they accomplished, etc.
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

could you also give some clues of how and when Heroe's come into play??

thanks
B[/QUOTE]
---------------------------------------------
Ye if you can get two stories that match.
Like Robin Hood pack of lies.
Richard the lion heart pack of lies.
Cromwell pack of lies.
Shall I continue?

Make it up its more life like he he.

LK

[carpaithian]

k im gonna give you a few names..finding info on them (apart from saladin) can be quite tricky...but youll find it if you look hard enough http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

Muslim--
Salahuddin ---or better known as Saladin
Nurrudin (Zengi?,think thats last name)

Turkish--
Abu Bakr-- (mind you this guy lived before the game period at all..but still.. timeline corectness is basically impossible
Kilij Arslan --
Malik-Ghazi of Sebastia
Karaja of Harran

[dclare4]

Thanks :-) Been finding a few myself. Any more?

Thanks again,
Gilbert de Clare

[barocca]

GilJay, Target and the gang seem to have gone into hibernation,

i suspect the patch came back from QA with a few suggestions!!
and they are now a bunch of very busy boys
http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

[dclare4]

A number of problems are in danger of stopping WotRTW dead in its tracks faster than a chevaux de frise... just so everyone knows I may have to just make it a graphical mod first before a campaign mod... my main problem is that I'm worried that, having made Orthodox, York, but transfered the Grand Mosque and Ribat to them (these are Yorkist buildings - York used to be Muslim; now the French have replaced Muslim) I'm afraid that they won't work or that the computer isn't programmed to let Orthodox factions crusade. it will be a shame though... I'm so close to finishing it...

Gloucester

[dclare4]

Hi there,

Just to let you know that War of the Roses Total War (WotRTW) is doing fine and dandy. Some changes were made, unavoidable but not detrimental. Catholic is Lancastrian, Orthodox is Yorkist, Muslim is French, Pagan is Scottish and Jewish is Moderate/Neutral. Instead of the Parliamentary writs w/c I really did want, I had to confine myself to crusade type 'Expeditions' w/c fortunately can be enacted by Catholic AND Orthodox type factions. The Jihad is now a 'chevauchee' and is available only to the French faction (non-playable). You still need a chapter house (now available to the Orthodox factions) "Parliamentary supporters" while the Grand Mosque and Cathedral are now Yorkist Favoritism and Lancastrian Favoritism respectively. That done, I set about making little graphical changes and I'm really happy to say that the feuding roses now have their respective floral badges. Graphics will be a MAJOR revamp but it should be relatively easier than the mind-wracking text file mods.

I've got some pics of the mod so far. What do you think? All the names are historical, at least the family names for the most part are. I've tried to group them into plausible factional alliances such as the Nevilles and their adherents, Yorkist barons, early and late Lancastrian Lords and the Grey/Woodville clique for the Northern barons. I still hope to stick to the concept where the major clans have to 'bribe' the troops of the minor clans to raise armies (big family factions such as the Yorks, Nevilles and Mowbrays get lots of money but can only raise Retinue type troops - at least until they achieve the Marshal's Palace w/c represents the highest social achievement which will enable them to raise 'Great Companies' - while the minor 'regional' clans such as the Greys in the North, the Scropes of Yorkshire, the Audleys of the Midlands and the Talbots of the Marches can raise 'shire levees' but will not have the money of the great families. I hope its workable!) but I plan to make the original MTW major factions playable. The minor factions will CRASH the game in GA mode if made playable - thus the De Veres (Sicily), Beauforts (Aragon), Scropes (Burgundy), Fitzalans (Swiss) will only be available for those who want to do custom battles. I do plan though to make a wide variety of shields with the coats of arms of hopefully all the major nobles for each troop type (I think thats a major aesthetic problem with MTW - too monotone. Medieval warfare is supposed to be very colorful with all the different coats of arms w/c I think isn't captured by MTW) with the Chivalric Knights and Retinue knights carrying the arms of the faction leader, the Sergeants carrying his badges (Talbot's dog, Fitzalan's horse, Stafford's swan, Neville's bear and ragged staff), the Feudal Men at Arms and Sergeants representing the minor barony and get the arms of one of the minor nobles (Dacre, Herbert, Woodville). I foresee it will probably be a bit confusing but then, battles of the period were weren't they? Maybe a Barnet-esque tragedy of mis-identification may even happen.

One problem I've been having is the shields of the High Royal Knights refuse to show up. Does anyone know the correct edit/save settings for these?

Well things are proceeding wonderfully and most of the work is donkey-labour here on in. Major hurdles include redoing the map (particularly the zoom areas) and reassigning economic production as well as cash income. Then there's the important matter of buildings and units. I want the possibility of building a 'manor' type of fief w/c means you don't have to build a 'fort' or 'castle' but it will severely limit the troop types you have available. The upside should be you SHOULD get access to a 'money building' that generates cash and gives an economic boost as well. I want the Castles to be 'unbuildable' in that you should only be able to upgrade but not make new ones - like you can have a keep and build all the upgrades but thats as far as you go. The Fortress/Citadel types will be used only for the major cities such as Bristol, York and London.

Hmmm... other changes... the Requiliary is now Caxton's Printing Press, I may make the monestary the aforesaid 'money manor', Silver is now 'Tin'... spies are female, inquisitors are 'plagues' and buildable only by the French (non-playable ex-Hungarian faction) and should be stealth units (making them EXTREMELY lethal - I should counteract it by making them very expensive to buy and maintain.) Oh, and I decided to just make the Hungarians the French and start the game just after the death of Henry V (so your Crusades to the Holy Land become the HYW!) - the problem was the darned Hungarian names were just too confusing so I thought that as the non-playable French thats where they would do the least 'damage'. Fortunately the Oriflamme seems to be a similar color to the MTW Hungarian faction color so they now have a neat St.Denis flag. If anyone's interested in helping out with the graphic mods I'd appreciate it!

Thanks,
Gloucester

[antidotos]

Dclare
What a hard work !
I recognized some of the troubles I have with my own mod. So I think you could help me.
Did you succeed in managing the names of the princes and heroes ?
Have you got a list of all the possible events (some seem to depend of the faction in play)?
Did you achieve seasonal turns ?

Thanks for reading.

------------------
Never Use Signatures...

[dclare4]

Seasonal turns are the easiest to achieve, well you basically look for anything that says A.D. in relation to years in all the text files and change it to season or turn or whatever you want to use. Doesn't really change anything actually.

Possible events are really faction related. You have to work with the game, just relate it to whatever situation you're in (for me thats War of the Roses) and change the files accordingly.

Ditto with Princes and Kings and Heroes. Find when and where they appear and see what stats they have and just relate them to whatever characters you plan to include (for me thats Tiptoft, Kyriel, Flory, Clarence, etc.)

We aren't programmers so we can't change what we wish we could... we can only change what we can...

Best regards,
Gloucester

[antidotos]

Thanks DCLARE

but you say seasonal change is easy to implement, however I was not talking only about cosmetic change. That is, even if you change the txt occurences I don't think it affects aging... and that s the real problem, I don t want to have all my kings ravaged prematurely by Alzheimer (snow is not so much important, it is so rare to have four battles in a turn).
Is this hopeless ?

------------------
Never Use Signatures...

[dclare4]

Same problem here. I'm approaching it obliquely... making the prince ruler 'retire to his estates' basically making the faction suffer a hiatus where the prince heir takes over for a while. Theoretically nobody really 'dies' unless assasinated, plagued or KIA in my mod.

Gloucester