View Full Version : Jordan Hotels bombed...
Devastatin Dave
11-09-2005, 20:56
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051109/ap_on_re_mi_ea/jordan_explosion
This is a bad one...~:eek:
Adrian II
11-09-2005, 21:25
Looks as if this one targeted western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq.
Kanamori
11-09-2005, 21:33
I guess I'm still having a hard time fathoming how people could be so hateful as to blow up a building of civilians. What a bunch of ass hats.~:(
Leet Eriksson
11-09-2005, 21:48
Just saw it in the news. Really despicable attack.
death count just got 20 at this moment.
Devastatin Dave
11-09-2005, 21:51
Looks as if this one targeted western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq.
So this is understandable in your view, correct?
Adrian II
11-09-2005, 21:53
Death count just got 20 at this moment.Probably a lot of bystanders again, Jordanians who have nothing to do with Iraq or politics. Islamists definitely blew it for themselves in Casablanca and Istanbul when they hit the locals in this way. Might happen in Jordan as well. Hope so.
Leet Eriksson
11-09-2005, 21:56
It doesn't matter for the terrorists wether other muslims die, they already think whoever goes into a western hotel somehow sinned, anyways i expect they send some kind of message by videotape sometime soon. They usually do that after explosions.
Tribesman
11-09-2005, 21:57
Looks as if this one targeted western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq.
Ain't that a bugger , they base themselves in Jordan as it is too dangerous to base themselves in Iraq , but still get killed .
Devastatin Dave
11-09-2005, 22:00
Looks as if this one targeted western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq.
Ain't that a bugger , they base themselves in Jordan as it is too dangerous to base themselves in Iraq , but still get killed .
I bet your all choked up about it.
Ser Clegane
11-09-2005, 22:29
Looks as if this one targeted western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq.
Ain't that a bugger , they base themselves in Jordan as it is too dangerous to base themselves in Iraq , but still get killed .
One of the bombs actually was targeted at a wedding party :no:
Adrian II
11-09-2005, 23:02
One of the bombs actually was targeted at a wedding party :no:In Casablanca one bomb targeted Spanish pensioners playing checkers. ~:confused:
Ser Clegane
11-09-2005, 23:06
In Casablanca one bomb targeted Spanish pensioners playing checkers. ~:confused:
The point was that the "irony" that Tribesman seems to see is not there (unless you think the wedding part has been moved from Iraq to Jordan for security reasons)
Kaiser of Arabia
11-09-2005, 23:17
53 dead, or at least, that's what Fox News says.
Leet Eriksson
11-09-2005, 23:20
and more than 200 wounded.
"The religion of peace"
*Still wonders why it allways are the muslims who attack non-muslims and not the opposite.*
Papewaio
11-09-2005, 23:23
"The religion of peace"
*Still wonders why it allways are the muslims who attack non-muslims and not the opposite.*
Right... Inquistion was a Muslim Organisation, as was the IRA and so is the KKK. :bow:
"The religion of peace"
*Still wonders why it allways are the muslims who attack non-muslims and not the opposite.* ~:rolleyes:
Well, in this case it was extremists versus Muslims and various others.
Leet Eriksson
11-09-2005, 23:26
"The religion of peace"
*Still wonders why it allways are the muslims who attack non-muslims and not the opposite.*
Please stop this BS radier, other muslims where killed in this.
Terrorists may be muslim, but this is not representative of islam.
Papewaio
11-09-2005, 23:30
Could the terrorists be declared 'anti-Muslims'? Like being excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
Tribesman
11-09-2005, 23:30
The point was that the "irony" that Tribesman seems to see is not there
The irony is there in this post Clegane...Looks as if this one targeted western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq.
(unless you think the wedding part has been moved from Iraq to Jordan for security reasons)
Some of the businessmen staying at that hotel initially thought the explosion was part of the wedding celebration fireworks display . Besides which weddings in Iraq have been bombed as well havn't they .
One of the bombs actually was targeted at a wedding party
It was targetted at a hotel wasn't it , or did they chose that hotel in addition to the other two because it had a wedding on ?????
Not nice business this war/terrorism or whichever mixture it is , is it ?
Not nice at all .
Why call these thugs "Terrorists". I almost think being called a Terrorist is like a badge of honor for these type of people. (i.e. phrases like - One man's "Freedom Fighter" is another's "Terrorist" etc.)
We should start calling them just criminals. This will remove some of the glamour.
Could the terrorists be declared 'anti-Muslims'? Like being excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
Back in March, some Spanish Mufties called a Fatwa upon Al-Qaeda. They said that they had turned their back on Islam.
Edit: That was a lot of words, a Fatwa is an Islamic legal ruling, and a Mufti is an Islamic scholar.
Leet Eriksson
11-09-2005, 23:56
Could the terrorists be declared 'anti-Muslims'? Like being excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
Islam does not have a central figure, as such its kinda hard to announce it officially. Some may believe and some may not.
In the peninsula at least, after the terrorist attacks hit saudia several saudi imams declared al qaeda as not muslims. Since saudi imams (perceived by the general arab populace of the peninsula) are people of more knowledge, alot of people think they [The Terrorists] aren't muslim, so it kinda works.
LeftEyeNine
11-10-2005, 00:13
Latest numbers : 62 dead around 110 wounded..
Faisal is true.. After especially the dismissal of the Caliphate during the foundation of Turkey, there is no central figure to implement such a powerful fatwa.. And I think that's a better way.. The opportunity cost of a central figure is higher, I think..
Correct me if I'm wrong but, Al Qaeda belongs to Vahhabi fraction. They just dismiss anyone not being a Vahhabi, including any and every Muslims. So that Vahhabi fraction is already cursed in Islam (not in holy words, of course).
I can get it so easy for a non-Muslim to think right away that Islam spreads terror - even in Muslim countries..Though, I'd like everyone to think twice..
Soulforged
11-10-2005, 00:20
Could the terrorists be declared 'anti-Muslims'? Like being excommunicated from the Catholic Church?
What difference will it make anyway? Formalities say much less of the situation that the facts themselves. That is, of course, if they've turned their backs against Islam, and I don't say this because of prejudice, I say it because I'm almost ignorant of Islamic doctrine at all.
Please stop this BS radier, other muslims where killed in this.
Terrorists may be muslim, but this is not representative of islam.
Muslims are in most cases NOT the targets...
The world would be much safer without Islam. Islam is truly overepresentated when it comes to religious extremists.
Louis VI the Fat
11-10-2005, 00:35
The Union of French Islamic Organizations (UOIF) has issued a fatwa (http://islamonline.net/English/News/2005-11/06/article05.shtml) banning Muslims from joining the raging riots. It didn't have any effect on the rioters, but it did on many moderates. And I at least appreciated it highly.
Moderates need to speak up. Look at what that terrorist scum is doing in Jordan - blowing up, killing muslims peacefully attending a wedding. What's wrong with these people? :furious3:
Leet Eriksson
11-10-2005, 00:40
Muslims are in most cases NOT the targets...
The world would be much safer without Islam. Islam is truly overepresentated when it comes to religious extremists.
Right, since i'm a muslim, i'm automatically bloodthirsty and i'm out to kill every infidel in this world. Be prepared as i have strapped my C4 belt and i'm going to kill you now.
The world would be a whole lot better without people like you.
ALLAH AKBAR
*boom*
~;p
LeftEyeNine
11-10-2005, 00:54
Some guy had a sig quoted of Chomsky saying :
"You want terrorism to end?.. Stop doing it" (may not be exact words though)
I think one should start thinking that terrorism is not here because AK-47 or C4 was invented, terrorism is because it is seeded into minds - like Osama's and like yours, Radier.
Strike For The South
11-10-2005, 01:05
Groups like Al Qaida are simply the KKK of Islam. Believe you me, if America was as unstable as the Middle-East we would be in the same situation, considering the wealth of radical christian views we have.
Im going to have to say no
Adrian II
11-10-2005, 01:09
Right, since i'm a muslim, i'm automatically bloodthirsty and i'm out to kill every infidel in this world. Be prepared as i have strapped my C4 belt and i'm going to kill you now.Since I am a Euro pinko crypto-Communist, I supply Faisal with the stuff. Whenever it comes up in court our defense is he got a bad deal as a kid and George Bush is to blame.
Goes down a riot, at least in French courts. ~;p
Strike For The South
11-10-2005, 01:14
And you would have to be wrong. The emergence of such hateful groups is a direct result of the Middle-East being unstable, and thus there is very little to stop Religious Extremism. Here in the USA, we have 'nigh Unrivalled stability, so we don't see this kind of hate put into form.
Im going to say no. For every 1 Chrstian extremist there are 100 muslim ones (not painting yall with the same brush) and they seem to be more fantical. Anyone can blow themselves up GC no matter what the econmic situation
LeftEyeNine
11-10-2005, 01:18
Anyone can blow themselves up GC no matter what the econmic situation
This assertion needs scientific support.
Tribesman
11-10-2005, 01:39
Look at what that terrorist scum is doing in Jordan - blowing up, killing muslims peacefully attending a wedding. What's wrong with these people?
Yeah its terrible , all those international delegates at the UN conference and security contractors could have ended up as collateral damage in this new war against weddings .
Whats wrong with these people ?????
It might be something to do with them being murderous bastards , but that is just a guess .
It might be something to do with them being murderous bastards , but that is just a guess .
Its not the fault of the religion - its the fault of the murderous bastards who want to use religion and violence together to inflame people.
unfortunately, It seems to work more often then not.
Tribesman
11-10-2005, 01:55
Its not the fault of the religion
Hey hey , have you ever seen me blame any religeon Red ?
Or use religeon to justify anything(apart from in sarcastic mode) .
I think my "guess" might be on target , though I don't really know how I could possibly come to that particular conclusion .~;)
Papewaio
11-10-2005, 02:04
Tribe I think Red was agreeing with you...~:cheers:
Papewaio
11-10-2005, 02:06
Im going to say no. For every 1 Chrstian extremist there are 100 muslim ones (not painting yall with the same brush) and they seem to be more fantical. Anyone can blow themselves up GC no matter what the econmic situation
Waco Texas, Oklahoma and the KKK to name just 3.
If you look at the Muslim countries, roughly the better off economically and socially it is the lesser amount of terrorism there is.
Compare UAE with Afghanistan or the Sudan.
Tribe I think Red was agreeing with you...~:cheers:
You would be corrrect. ~:cheers:
But it is nice to see Tribesman jump. :duel: :hide:
Its not the fault of the religion
Hey hey , have you ever seen me blame any religeon Red ?
Or use religeon to justify anything(apart from in sarcastic mode) .
See previous post. ~D
I think my "guess" might be on target , though I don't really know how I could possibly come to that particular conclusion .~;)
Don't know either - maybe because murderous bastards are murderous bastards regardless of what religion they might be (or lack of)
Strike For The South
11-10-2005, 02:27
Waco Texas, Oklahoma and the KKK to name just 3.
If you look at the Muslim countries, roughly the better off economically and socially it is the lesser amount of terrorism there is.
Compare UAE with Afghanistan or the Sudan.
OK I hate to burst your bubble there is no KKK anymore (The one that claims to be are just old southeners or nazis who think they can be from the south.) Point is they have no power and never will. Im glad you can only point out 2 incdents one of which does not even have to do with religon. Does anyone remember the 9-11 hijackers most of them were afflunet. Its not about money it is about power hungry people angry becuase they are not the forefront of civilaztion and are jelaous of the west. Its about what they preach
Devastatin Dave
11-10-2005, 03:28
Can we get back on subject, these are murderous bastards REGARDLESS of what religion they CLAIM. The only claim they have is the fiery pits of hell. Can't believe I'm about to say this but, stop the Islam bashing. This has little to do with religion except maybe the perversion of it.
Adrian II
11-10-2005, 03:38
It is more or less accepted that Al Qaida planned to hit one or more hotels in Amman during the Millennium Celebrations of 2000, but the plan was foiled by Jordanian security. It seems they have carried it out almost six years later. Someone seems to have been on the alert though:
Haaretz
10/11/2005
Israelis evacuated from Amman hotel hours before bombings
by Yoav Stern, Haaretz Correspondent
A number of Israelis staying on Wednesday at the Radisson hotel were evacuated before the bombing by Jordanian security forces, apparently due to a specific security alert. They were escorted back to Israel by security personnel.
The Foreign Ministry stated Wednesday that no Israeli tourists are known to have been injured in the blasts. Representatives of Israel's embassy in Amman were in contact with local authorities to examine any report of injured Israelis, but none were received. There are often a number of Israeli businessman and tourists in Amman, including in the hotels hit Wednesday.
Israel's counter-terror headquarters on Wednesday recommended Israeli citizens not travel in Jordan. Travel warnings regarding Jordan were tightened a few months ago, but many Israelis still visit the country. Many also visit other regions such as the Jordanian Arava and the ancient city of Petra.
Link (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/643661.html)
Seamus Fermanagh
11-10-2005, 04:07
Rubbish and you know it. If the Middle-East was organized like America, do you think all those extremists would still be there, happily killing away? There are less Extremists in America because it does not pay to be an extremist here. It doesn't work. If the system fell apart, groups like the KKK would rise again.
...Oh crud, I find myself agreeing with Gelcube...~:mecry:
Socio-political instability/economic futility is almost always the best recipe for hate groups. There is a reason the KKK formed during the oh-so-genteel Reconstruction. The hyper-inflation of the Weimar yielded Nazi domination (indirectly at least); the recession of 1784-88 resulted in the French revolution; the dissolution of the Manchu dynasty allowed for the development of the Red Chinese and the Kuomintang....
However, SFTS has brought up a point that is worthy of evaluation. He has suggested, and anecdotal evidence would support, that Islam appears to generate fanatics in greater numbers (per capita) than have the other belief systems -- even accounting for the disparate socio-political conditions. While suicide warriors are hardly unique to Islam, only fuedal Japan seems to have produced them with more frequency.
Thoughts?
Soulforged
11-10-2005, 04:34
Could there be more simple answer than "that's the truth". Period. As secular society gains power, religion in all it's forms loses ground, this means political appeal too.
However, SFTS has brought up a point that is worthy of evaluation. He has suggested, and anecdotal evidence would support, that Islam appears to generate fanatics in greater numbers (per capita) than have the other belief systems -- even accounting for the disparate socio-political conditions. While suicide warriors are hardly unique to Islam, only fuedal Japan seems to have produced them with more frequency.
Any statistics? Nowadays you can proove everything with statistics...That could be, and in my opinion is, an accidental conclusion of historic events development. There's no element in the proper religion of Islam, that I know, wich implies propention towards extremism, at least not more than the same elements founded on the other two greats. Thus it doesn't proves anything.
Also as I always say, ideas have not that much power that some people give to them, they only work if you accept them, so the problem is always the people not the idea.
Seamus Fermanagh
11-10-2005, 05:00
Could there be more simple answer than "that's the truth". Period. As secular society gains power, religion in all it's forms loses ground, this means political appeal too.
Any statistics? Nowadays you can proove everything with statistics...That could be, and in my opinion is, an accidental conclusion of historic events development. There's no element in the proper religion of Islam, that I know, wich implies propention towards extremism, at least not more than the same elements founded on the other two greats. Thus it doesn't proves anything.
Also as I always say, ideas have not that much power that some people give to them, they only work if you accept them, so the problem is always the people not the idea.
Well, I was certainly NOT trying to shift the blame from the individual thugs responsible for the attacks onto the shoulders of Islam as a whole. I acknowledge that the evidence is anecdotal, but it does SEEM that their is a stronger tendency toward fanatical violence arising from those who claim Islam as their motivating force than from other sects/beliefs.
Statistics are simply numbers. They prove little unless the operational definitions/procedures used in data collection and data manipulation processes are clearly delineated. Never accept a statistic without knowing how it was calculated. You probably know this already, but it is always helpful to remind yourself of this.
Soulforged
11-10-2005, 07:34
Statistics are simply numbers. They prove little unless the operational definitions/procedures used in data collection and data manipulation processes are clearly delineated. Never accept a statistic without knowing how it was calculated. You probably know this already, but it is always helpful to remind yourself of this.Yes I know it. But I told you that because you based your assumptions on your second part in the statement of SFTS that for every Christian extremist there's a hundred Islamic extremist, that's why I asked for some statistics. Maybe I made a mistake?
From CNN
Al-Zarqawi suspected in Jordan terror blasts.
AMMAN, Jordan (CNN) -- A Jordanian official says Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq, is a "prime suspect" in three nearly simultaneous suicide blasts that killed at least 57 people in and near hotels in downtown Amman.
Several of the dead were Palestinian officials.
More than 150 people were hurt in the bombings, the largest of which targeted a wedding celebration inside a hotel banquet room.
Deputy Prime Minister Marwan Muasher said that blast, at a Radisson Hotel, was set off by a suicide bomber wearing a belt packed with explosives.
"Most of the casualties occurred at that wedding party. And most of them, if not all, were Jordanian," he told CNN.
The blasts occurred sequentially at the Radisson, the Grand Hyatt and the Days Inn Hotel between 9 p.m. and 10 p.m. (2 p.m. -3 p.m. ET) Wednesday. The three international hotels are located within a few hundred yards of each other.
The blast inside the Grand Hyatt also appeared to have been caused by a bomber wearing an explosive belt, he said.
The Days Inn blast occurred when a car attempted to cross a security barrier, could not, and exploded outside the hotel, he said.
Randa Jaaqoub told CNN she was in the lobby of the Grand Hyatt with her fiance when that blast occurred.
"Everything just exploded, and we had fire and smoke all over," the Jordanian American from Chicago said. "We saw the bodies and blood all over."
Though security forces sealed off the three hotels almost immediately after the attacks, a reporter for the Jordanian Times, Rana Husseini, gained entrance to the Radisson about 20 minutes after the explosion there.
The lobby and wedding hall were "totally destroyed," she said, with shattered glass all over the floor.
"There were tables and chairs turned over, there was blood on the chairs, it was really a horrific scene." (Watch eyewitness accounts -- 2:46)
The groom said the blast took place as he and his fiance were entering the wedding hall. He lost as many as 10 of his relatives, including his father, he said. No Westerners were at the party, he said.
"This is not Islam," he said. "This is a terrorist fighting our capital."
Video from the scene showed hundreds of police and emergency officials cordoning off the area around the hotels. Inside the Radisson, a hole was blown into the ceiling of a ballroom and tables and chairs were strewn across the room.
Dozens of ambulances lined up outside the hotels, loaded up and sped off, their sirens wailing and lighting up the night.
An emergency Cabinet meeting was convened shortly after the explosions.
"This is something that Jordan is not used to," Muasher said, taking a break from the meeting. "Obviously, we are not happy about what happened and we are going to take whatever measures we can to guard against these terrorist activities."
No group immediately claimed responsibility for the attack. But Muasher said Jordanian-born terrorist al-Zarqawi, the head of al Qaeda in Iraq and that country's most-wanted terrorist, is among the suspects.
"Obviously, he's a prime suspect," Muasher said. (Watch a report on al-Zarqawi suspected -- 2:09)
Jordanian King Abdullah II issued a statement condemning the attacks and saying that Jordan "will be resilient."
Karim Kawar, the Jordanian ambassador to the United States, said the attacks have "come as a shock to all of us."
"We try to be as vigilant as possible but, at the end of the day, we're all vulnerable to such attacks," he said in Washington.
In a written statement, Jordanian House Speaker Abdel Hadi Majali called the blasts "a criminal terrorist act."
Asked whether al Qaeda may have been behind them, he said, "There is definitely an organization behind these attacks. Al Qaeda tried before and we foiled some attacks and this could be one of those times when they were able to bypass our security forces."
Palestinian officials among dead
Jordanian Embassy officials in Washington said the blasts came without warning, and no Jordanian government officials were among the casualties.
Officials from other governments, however, were among the dead. Four Palestinians, including Maj. Gen. Bashir Nafeh, head of Palestinian military intelligence, died in the blast at the Grand Hyatt, according to chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erakat. Also killed was Col. Abed Allun; Jihad Fattouh, the brother of the Palestinian parliament speaker; and Mosab Khoma, Erakat said. The four were on their way back from Cairo, Egypt, he said, adding that he condemned the attack in the strongest terms possible.
In addition, three Chinese were killed and one wounded in the attacks, according to the Chinese news agency Xinhua, which cited a press release on the Chinese Foreign Ministry's Web site. They were members of a delegation from China's University of National Defense and were staying at one of the hotels, according to the report. Which hotel was not specified.
Jordanian Prime Minister Adnan Badran told Jordanian television that government offices and schools would be closed Thursday.
'Cowardly' attacks condemned
Though the hotels cater to international travelers, it was not clear whether they were targeted. The Hyatt is the most expensive, followed by the Radisson and then the Days Inn, but all three are commonly used by Jordanians, said a Westerner who has lived in Jordan for more than a year.
In Washington, a spokesman for the White House said the administration knew of no U.S. casualties.
U.S. President George W. Bush called the attacks "cowardly" and "barbaric."
The State Department had issued no recent travel warnings for Americans visiting Jordan.
The Radisson Hotel was the target of a 1999 plot prior to the millennium celebrations, but Jordanian law enforcement broke up the plot.
After Wednesday's attack, Radisson said in a statement: "We are saddened by this tragic incident and are mobilizing to clarify the facts and assist those who have been impacted."
Hyatt said its management team is "working to assure the safety and relocation of guests," given that authorities had evacuated the targeted hotels.
Days Inn issued a statement saying four of its guests were wounded, three of them seriously, but no one had died.
Jordan, considered a key Arab ally of the United States, helps train Iraqi troops and hosts the headquarters of international aid agencies that pulled relief workers out of Iraq as the insurgency deepened there.
It is also the homeland of al-Zarqawi, the wanted terrorist in Iraq who has a $25 million reward posted for his head.
In August, al-Zarqawi's group claimed responsibility for rocket attacks that targeted but missed two U.S. warships in the Jordanian Red Sea port of Aqaba.
Jordanian authorities said the attackers kept insurgent leaders in Iraq informed of their progress.
CNN's Hala Gorani contributed to this report.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/10/jordan.blasts/index.html
bmolsson
11-10-2005, 10:39
~:mecry:
Ser Clegane
11-10-2005, 13:01
One of the bombs actually was targeted at a wedding party
It was targetted at a hotel wasn't it , or did they chose that hotel in addition to the other two because it had a wedding on ?????
No - but it seems the terrorist chose the wedding party to maximize the carnarge - and that was seemingly more important than hitting "western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq".
Besides which weddings in Iraq have been bombed as well havn't they .
Meaning what? Neither is acceptable.
Adrian II
11-10-2005, 14:03
No - but it seems the terrorist chose the wedding party to maximize the carnarge - and that was seemingly more important than hitting "western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq".I didn't think so because these attacks are always meant to serve various purposes at the same time. Al-Zawahiri's guidelines are rather clear on that: they target westerners and western institutions as well as all muslims or Arabs who 'go near' these targets. The Al Qaida 'claim' that has surfaced last night is certainly in line with this policy.
The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,1639339,00.html)
The statement said Amman is "a backyard for the enemies of the faith, the Jews and crusaders...a filthy place for the traitors...and a centre for prostitution."
At least 57 people and more than 100 were wounded when suicide bombers targeted three hotels in the Jordanian capital. The Grand Hyatt, Radisson and Days Inn hotels were said to be popular with foreigners and many of the guests were involved in the reconstruction of Iraq.
Bassel Tarawneh, a spokesman for the Jordanian government, said the victims included 15 Jordanians, one Saudi, one Palestinian, five Iraqis, three Chinese, one Indonesian and 30 others. Two Palestinian security officials and an Israeli-Arab are also believed to be among the dead.And look at some of the victims.
The Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,251-1866129_2,00.html)
Bashir Nafeh, director of military intelligence chief in the West Bank, was named as being among the dead. He had stopped in Amman with Colonel Abed Allun, a high-ranking security official, and Rawhi Futtah, the commercial attache at the Palestinian Embassy in Egypt and brother of the speaker in the Palestinian parliament. All three were staying in the Grand Hyatt.
Ser Clegane
11-10-2005, 14:42
And look at some of the victims.
Indeed - no "Westerner" seems to be among the indentified victims so far - at least I haven't heard about one yet - and your quoted sources do not mention one either.
AQ might claim that they target Westerners, but in reality they hit Western property and semmingly killed almost exclusively muslims, including the guests of the wedding party (with no Western guests) and members of the Palestinian administration.
Let's face it - they do not care one bit who dies in the attacks, as long as they can somehow create the impression that it was an attack on the West and its allies.
Bah, he did boom in the middle of a wedding party, screw their primitive bloodlust.
Right, since i'm a muslim, i'm automatically bloodthirsty and i'm out to kill every infidel in this world. Be prepared as i have strapped my C4 belt and i'm going to kill you now.
The world would be a whole lot better without people like you.
ALLAH AKBAR
*boom*
~;p
I didn´t say all muslims are extremists! I´m not bloody stupid... I think the world would be calmer without Islam, that´s it. What makes you think the opposite? And why would the world be better without ´atheists´ like me? ~:confused:
Tribesman
11-10-2005, 19:51
Meaning what? Neither is acceptable.
I know that , and you know that , but I am waiting for some posters who have justified bombing weddings and hotels on this forum to make a post in this topic so I can remind them of their own words .~;)
Adrian II
11-10-2005, 19:51
Bah, he did boom in the middle of a wedding party, screw their primitive bloodlust.Do not underestimate the enemy. Those who blew themselves up may have been primitive, those who set the suicide bombers up might be very sophisticated. In Al Qaida's case they certainly are.
Watchman
11-10-2005, 20:02
Sheesh, such a lack of perspective. Let's put it this way:
How old a phenomenom is international terrorism carried out by Muslims ?
I'd say about thirty or forty years; AFAIK the Palestinian ultras pioneered it with their aircraft hijackings and suchlike after they realized the ever-inflamed Israel issue wasn't going to be resolved by straight military means (AFAIK the last time Israel actually fought a straight war with its Arab neighbors was in the Seventies; after that the other side seems to have admitted the facts and stopped trying). The reciporoal bomb-throwing between the Palestinians and the Israelis doesn't really count IMO, being essentially some sort of low-intensity civil war/border dispute. Even with Qaddafi's escapades thrown in it was all really rather low-key, although obviously the passengers in the planes that blew up would disagree.
But then again, most major European states had at least a few domestic politically motvated terrorist groups around that time too (usually styling themselves as Red Somethingorother). Heck, even Japan had at least one. It seems to have been that kind of period.
Now, when was the first time Osama and his boys made it to the limelight ? Don't quote me on thins, but I'm thinking mid-late Nineties. And they were still being fairly low-key, by what I recall.
When did things start picking up ? 11.9.2001 and aftermath. Particularly the aftermath. One has to wonder if Osama was specifically trying to become the trigger for an entirely new kind of conflict; if so, he certainly succeeded. In any case things have been getting more hectic since then, no doubt largely because the "jihadists" regardless of their religious affectations are actually primarily motivated by assorted vicissitudes of entirely temporal politics and developements, in which they have an audience in many an angry young man.
Conversely the assorted Irish ultras have been going at it for something like a century, for fairly specifically religious reasons (religious division being the single biggest denominator in all the other issues involved). Has that made anyone declare Christianity a religion of bomb-throwing madmen "with 100 extremists for every Muslim one", as it were ?
Not exactly.
Every man equal before the law, wrote even Hammurabi thousands of years ago.
AQ might claim that they target Westerners, but in reality they hit Western property and semmingly killed almost exclusively muslims, including the guests of the wedding party (with no Western guests) and members of the Palestinian administration.
Let's face it - they do not care one bit who dies in the attacks, as long as they can somehow create the impression that it was an attack on the West and its allies. Indeed. Those innocent civilians were just as much a target as any westerner that might be present. Jordan is a US ally, and the goal of the official Al-Qaeda fatwa statement is:
…to kill the Americans and their allies, civilians and military, is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque in Mecca from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim…
Kanamori
11-10-2005, 23:20
The Associated Press
CAIRO, Egypt - In an apparent response to Jordanians who took to the streets to call for its leader to "burn in hell," al-Qaida in Iraq took the rare step Thursday of trying to justify the triple suicide bombings that killed 56 people, mostly Arabs.
Earlier Thursday, the group posted a Web statement claiming responsibility for Wednesday's attacks. Then a second al-Qaida statement appeared on the Internet "to explain for Muslims part of the reason holy warriors targeted these dens." That statement appeared after Arab-wide expressions of outrage.
"Let all know that we have struck only after becoming confident that they are centers for launching war on Islam and support the crusaders' presence in Iraq and the Arab peninsula and the presence of the Jews on the land of Palestine," the group said.
The statement said the hotels that were hit were "favorite places for the work of the intelligence organs, especially those of the Americans, the Israelis and some western European countries" for what the group called "invisible battles in the so-called war on terrorism."
The statement also said the hotels, the Grand Hyatt, the Radisson SAS and the Days Inn, were used by NATO as a rear base "from which the convoys of the crusaders and the renegades head back and forth to the land of Iraq where Muslims are killed and their blood is shed."
Striking a moral tone, the al-Qaida manifesto said the hotels were a "secure place for the filthy Israeli and Western tourists to spread corruption and adultery at the expense and suffering of the Muslims in these countries."
Warning that Wednesday's attacks would pale by comparison, the statement promised "catastrophic" assaults in the future.
"Let everyone know that we will never hesitate in targeting these places wherever they are... . By God, we have never noticed them caring when they shed the blood of Muslims and rape the honor of the decent women," the statement said.
The hotels, frequented by Israelis and Americans among other foreign guests, have long been on al-Qaida's hit list.
The statements' authenticity could not be independently verified, but they appeared on an Islamic Web site that is a clearinghouse for statements by militant groups.
Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
Copyright © 2005 ABC News Internet Ventures
Article (http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=1300775)
Since when have they needed to justify any of their actions?
Watchman
11-10-2005, 23:45
Hey, give them some credit - they're not so dumb as not recognize when they've made a bit of a mistake that might need some soothing over. This is a war about opinions, after all.
And you know, there's something amusingly corny about their rhetoric. Alas, they're actually *serious* about it...
Leet Eriksson
11-11-2005, 00:45
I didn´t say all muslims are extremists! I´m not bloody stupid... I think the world would be calmer without Islam, that´s it. What makes you think the opposite? And why would the world be better without ´atheists´ like me? ~:confused:
No, you are simply wrong.
Even without religion at all, the world would still be fighting each other for silly ideas like nationalism, resources or some strategic dirt. I mean hey, Hitler wasn't a religious guy, so is stalin, and they combined did more damage to human life than all the terrorists (non-muslims included) combined in the 20th century alone.
Also why the world would be better without atheists like you, read LENs response.
bmolsson
11-11-2005, 01:56
I´m not bloody stupid...
Good for you.... ~:grouphug:
bmolsson
11-11-2005, 02:17
Every man equal before the law, wrote even Hammurabi thousands of years ago.
He was a dreamer too..... ~:mecry:
Adrian II
11-11-2005, 03:22
And you know, there's something amusingly corny about their rhetoric. Alas, they're actually *serious* about it...It is totally corny. I mean, how many decent women have you raped lately?
It's the violence and sacrifice behind the words that make them sound serious in the eyes of a wider muslim audience. Of course this is a battle for public opinion in the muslim world and particularly the Arab part. And of course there are 'mass' demonstrations against Al Qaida in Jordan and probably elsewhere -- but these are orchestrated. Ninety five percent of the Jordanian population is not taking to the streets despite the fact that the King is taking the lead. Jordanians are weary of America's military presence in Iraq, and the Iraqi resistance to it is often viewed as proof of Arab dignity and patriotism compared to King Abdallahs peace with Israel and 'betrayal' of Palestinians. In other words, instead of claiming that Al Qaida has shot itself in the foot here, we must assume that the jury is still out.
Red Harvest
11-11-2005, 08:05
Looks as if this one targeted western contract workers, ngo's and media working in Iraq.
Bet you're disappointed.
Bet you're disappointed.
What is that supposed to mean? Adrian is merely giving extra information about the attacks. What's your problem?
What is that supposed to mean? Adrian is merely giving extra information about the attacks. What's your problem?
Best just ignore little flames like this dude - they've been popping up all through the thread - don't feed the trolls :bow:
Geoffrey S
11-11-2005, 17:55
A terrible act of terrorism. If only more moderate Muslims would also (dare) speak out against such deeds.
And you know, there's something amusingly corny about their rhetoric. Alas, they're actually *serious* about it...
It's not so much that Al-Qaeda's serious about it that's worrying, it's that so many of the targets of such rhetoric take it seriously, and act on it. Whatever else Al-Qaeda may be they sure are effective at manipulating dissatisfied people.
No, you are simply wrong.
Even without religion at all, the world would still be fighting each other for silly ideas like nationalism, resources or some strategic dirt. I mean hey, Hitler wasn't a religious guy, so is stalin, and they combined did more damage to human life than all the terrorists (non-muslims included) combined in the 20th century alone.
Also why the world would be better without atheists like you, read LENs response.
I don´t know what respond you are talking about, but LEN compares me, a peaceful citicen, with Osama B.L. But I guess you people can´t take it when someone critizise your religion. It´s called freedome of speach. Something muslim countries tends to lack btw...
CNN has more on Al Queda's claim.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/11/11/jordan.blasts/index.html
4 suicide bombers, including a husband and wife team.
AMMAN, Jordan (CNN) -- Four Iraqis -- including a husband and wife -- carried out the terror bombings in Amman that killed 57 people, al Qaeda in Iraq claimed Friday on a Web site.
"A group of martyrdom-seekers carried out the planning and implementation. They comprised three men and a woman who decided to accompany her husband on the path to martyrdom," the statement said.Now, how is the husband going to enjoy the 72 virgins with his wife on his case for all eternity?
When AQ started killing Muslims (was the Saudi attack the first, or was it the embassy bombings in 98?), I figured they would start losing their so-called credibility. I'm sure some of their members don't particularly like this path. If they keep this up, I'm thinking they are just going to fragment into smaller terrorist gangs, less capable but more concerned with out-doing each other and fighting amongst themselves. No complaints from me if that happens.
Tribesman
11-11-2005, 19:37
When AQ started killing Muslims (was the Saudi attack the first, or was it the embassy bombings in 98?), I figured they would start losing their so-called credibility.
Try a little earlier , '90-92 Afghanistan , Eritrea , Somalia , Algeria , they like killing people regardless of their religeon .
Basically if you ain't Al-Qaida then you is a target .
If they keep this up, I'm thinking they are just going to fragment into smaller terrorist gangs, less capable but more concerned with out-doing each other and fighting amongst themselves. No complaints from me if that happens.
Well you should be comlaining , since it is a fragmented group anyway each trying to outdo each other , and you can see the results of that can't you . And as it is small fragmented groups how the hell can you defeat them .
A multitude of very different groups with very different origins and aims are all gathered into one tidy little banner called Al-Qaida now .
Any mad bastard anywhere in the world with access to everyday items can go out and murder people and instantly become Al-Qaida can't they .
Even if the terrorist were part of some real entity then when that entity fragments into internal feuding they still kill a hell of a lot of innocent people as well as a few of each other .
Geoffrey S
11-11-2005, 19:48
I don´t know what respond you are talking about, but LEN compares me, a peaceful citicen, with Osama B.L. But I guess you people can´t take it when someone critizise your religion. It´s called freedome of speach. Something muslim countries tends to lack btw...
It doesn't help when you start comparing all Muslims to dear old Bin Laden. You reap what you sow.
It doesn't help when you start comparing all Muslims to dear old Bin Laden. You reap what you sow.
Be my guest ant quote me when I said that... :bow:
Geoffrey S
11-11-2005, 23:29
"The religion of peace"
*Still wonders why it allways are the muslims who attack non-muslims and not the opposite.*
The world would be much safer without Islam. Islam is truly overepresentated when it comes to religious extremists.
Broadly painting 'the muslims' as warlike extremists. Admitted, you didn't literally compare all muslims to Bin Laden, that was somewhat poor rhetoric on my part when paraphrasing your post, but the point still stands. If you're going to insult people's religious beliefs you can hardly be surprised when they're not too happy about it.
BTW, nice avatar! ~;)
Adrian II
11-13-2005, 10:52
So much for Jordanian national security:
Jordanian soldiers seduced by Al-Qaeda ‘aided’ suicide attacks
A nationwide hunt for the accomplices of suicide bombers who blew up three hotels in Amman, killing 57 people, has led to the arrest of at least 10 members of the Jordanian armed forces, triggering worries that Al-Qaeda has infiltrated the Arab army most closely allied to the West.
The Jordanians’ fear that Al-Qaeda might have infiltrated the armed forces was raised for the first time in August, when a missile was fired from the shore at an American warship in the Red Sea port of Aqaba. “They are inside,” a security source said. “It remains to be seen how many they are and how dangerous.”
Sunday Times (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1869574,00.html)
Tribesman
11-13-2005, 12:35
Jordanian soldiers seduced by Al-Qaeda ‘aided’ suicide attacks
OK forget Iran and Syria , lets invade Jordan .~;)
Geoffrey S
11-13-2005, 18:28
Jordanian soldiers seduced by Al-Qaeda ‘aided’ suicide attacks
Not much of a surprise really, but rather unpleasant nonetheless.
Adrian II
11-13-2005, 19:35
Has anyone else seen the bizarre footage of the surviving female suicide bomber's confession on Jordanian state tv? She actually demonstrated the explosive belt that failed to trigger in a corner of the wedding party. Her husband was purportedly 'covering' the opposite corner of the hall. When he blew himself up and she failed to do the same, the woman fled outside with the surviving wedding guests. Only after Al Qaeda published their communique, saying there had been four suicide bombers including the spouse of one of them, the security forces were alerted as to her existence.
Weird. ~:handball:
EDIT
I mean weird in the sense that this was a message from Jordanian security to Al Qaida saying 'we have got one of yours and she is talking'. Why would they want to do that? Jordanian security have the reputation of being quite effective, but as far as I know they are a bunch of rather mediocre fascists unsuited to the real job. (The Syrians, now there is a security service...) Of course AdrianII may be the actual idiot who doesn't spot the obvious. So, is this tv confession just another blooper or is it a brilliant move?
Kagemusha
11-13-2005, 20:14
I think its a great news that some of these terrorist are actually caught alive. That way their contacts can maybe catched too. While it still has the same effect then cutting of one of Hydras head, even little progress is better then no progress at all.
Adrian II
11-13-2005, 20:25
I think its a great news that some of these terrorist are actually caught alive. That way their contacts can maybe catched too. While it still has the same effect then cutting of one of Hydras head, even little progress is better then no progress at all.What I meant to say is that Al Qaeda were probably not aware that the woman had survived, that she had been caught and that she was talking. Why alert them? It seems an extremely stupid move -- unless there are overriding political reasons to show the woman on tv right now...
Kagemusha
11-13-2005, 20:40
What I meant to say is that Al Qaeda were probably not aware that the woman had survived, that she had been caught and that she was talking. Why alert them? It seems an extremely stupid move -- unless there are overriding political reasons to show the woman on tv right now...
I think that the only reason Jordanese intelligence people went public with that was that the woman really didnt know anything important. I agree with you Mr.Inquisitor that if it was an political decision to put her in public, and If she had known something important.That would have been stupid indeed.:bow:
Adrian II
11-13-2005, 21:40
I think that the only reason Jordanese intelligence people went public with that was that the woman really didnt know anything important.Maybe. But then again...
Mr. Muasher said the suicide vest was found with her. He said she is the sister of a slain al-Qaida militant from Anbar province in Iraq. Mr. Muasher said her brother, who was killed in the Iraqi city of Fallujah, was once the right-hand man of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, whose terrorist group, al-Qaida in Iraq, has claimed responsibility for the hotel bombings.
Link (http://www.voanews.com/english/2005-11-13-voa25.cfm)
As for the political need: her appearance on tv may have been a move to demonstrate to the Jordanians that the attacks were really the work of Al Qaida, not the Americans or Israelis as many Jordanians seem to believe.
And I can't help wondering about the wording of her 'confession' which was no doubt rehearsed. Her demeanour and words seem to suggest she was a mere pawn of her husband and she may have sabotaged her own 'detonation' on purpose. About the wedding she said 'There was a wedding at the hotel with children, women and men inside', in that order -- suggesting she might have felt that children and (other) women really shouldn't be targets of the 'Lord's wrath'. All this to convince would-be followers of Al-Zarqawi that their 'hero' is senselessly sacrificing women and children, including those of his own comrades, a notion that hopefully reflects badly on his reputation. Don't forget, this fight is for the hearts and minds of Jordanians, and of Arabs in general.
EDIT
Oh look, more operative brilliance (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/644451.html).
"Jordan is at the top of our list of foreign partners," said Michael Scheuer, who resigned from the CIA and who recently led a unit responsible for tracking Osama bin Laden.
"We have similar agendas, and they are willing to help any way they can," he told the Times.Isn't anybody using their brains anymore? :confused:
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