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Cirith Ungol
11-15-2005, 15:41
Ok, I am sure this was posted before swear I read somthing on this but here it goes.
During a few different battles I have experienced units that dont follow orders to move ussually a cavelry unit but it has happened to some skirmisher infantry also . I give them a command to move or attack or anything and they do not respond at all weird.
I have got the BUGFIXER MOD loaded and that fixed just about everything but this. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced this and if anyone knows a way to fix it.
Thanks :bow:

Ludens
11-15-2005, 17:15
I sometimes have it with archers. It seems to me that if they are firing (not just going through the reload animation but actually aiming and firing) when I give them the command, they'll ignore me. The move symbol appears on their unit card, but it dissappears as soon as they end their firing cycle. I use minimal UI.

Red Harvest
11-15-2005, 17:52
It is a big problem in 1.3. Units get "stuck" as other units approach. It's like the approaching enemy has a tractor beam. Or perhaps it is like one of those nightmares where you can't run for some reason...or your legs are moving, but you aren't going anywhere...yeah, it's like that nightmare.

The Stranger
11-15-2005, 19:51
Ludens when that happens your units are prolly to close to the combat, if you position them a bit away from the combat they should work normal.

whats also annoying is thaT units get the fighting icon before being engaged...theyre just close to the enemy. they wont charge but just walk in fighting mode and wander around a bit. this mostly happens when youre atttacking a towncenter or fighting before a gateway or narrow streets. its prolly caused by to many units engaged wich usually is the situation in these spots.

i also noticed that units than can fire projectiles wont fire on units on the wall when the unit that must fire is on the inside of the wall. they work correctly however when standing on the outside of the wall

Ludens
11-15-2005, 20:30
Ludens when that happens your units are prolly to close to the combat, if you position them a bit away from the combat they should work normal.
No, it also happened when the units where still at 1/3 of the archers range and there where other skirmish units of mine in between. They are not drawn into close combat. They just refuse to move and keep on firing. Can't blame them for lack of enthusiasm, but I'd like my orders to be obeyed promptly...

Watchman
11-15-2005, 20:40
I've noticed that archers at least stubbornly insist on completing their current firing sequence before they start doing something else, and additionally casually forget whatever I told them to do when they were busy shooting. Repeating said order right after the missiles have taken off tends to work. And sometimes they seem to dawdle awfully long in starting to retreat under skirmish orders from the approaching enemy...

Assorted javelin-toting units also insist on getting done with their already-started throwing before listening to anything new.

But other than that, all I've seen is a slight delay in starting to for example retreat from hand-to-hand combat when ordered, and that's just a second or two.

Not a big deal IMHO.

dismal
11-15-2005, 21:17
Not a big deal IMHO.

It costs me a heckuva a lot of archers.

I often use archers to harass and bait the enemy lines, and it would sure be nice if they ran away the first time you told them. Which is typically when the enemy cav are coming right at them.

Watchman
11-15-2005, 21:43
I make a point of keeping an unit of friendly cavalry hanging near them for those occasions. I've noticed even the most close-order heavy cavalry can move through sufficiently loose-order friendlies (Hunters on standard and most other archers on loose, for example) almost like they weren't there, which in practical terms means countercharging right through the archers to give the enemy cav something better to do.

And that's only on the flanks of or away from the main infantry line. If you're skirmishing your archers back and forth through the main line, I've found it best to just plain keep an eye on the enemy cav and manually tell the archers to take a hike early enough if need be - if you don't, then even when all goes well the speed of the horses tends to be great enough in relation to that of the archers and their "skirmish trigger" range that if you're lucky the cavalry crashes into their rear around the same time they overlap and mess up the infantry line, so some micromanaging is recommended.

Personally, unless the enemy is about 100% infantry or otherwise rather slow-moving I tend to stick my archers behind the heavies. Just plain safer that way. And the AI is tactically inept enough that I still tend to beat it in firefights, assuming equal range or better range.

Red Harvest
11-15-2005, 22:32
It costs me a heckuva a lot of archers.

I often use archers to harass and bait the enemy lines, and it would sure be nice if they ran away the first time you told them. Which is typically when the enemy cav are coming right at them.

To make it work you have to 1. Hit Pause. 2. Turn off fire at will. 3. Give the halt command. 4. Then order the archers to run away. The order of the commands is important. So it only takes 4 steps to get archers to do what they should do automatically.

Oaty
11-16-2005, 03:08
I understand a bit of whats going on here. In MTW if an archer was 95 percent reloaded and soon to fire but you gave that unit new orders, they would stop what they were doing and execute your new orders even though they were 2 seconds away from firing a shot, wich was a bit annoying when you had to rush orders and that 2 seconds was needed to do give other orders.

If you catch your skirmishers while they are less than ~ 20 percent reloaded they will execute your new order.

So this was a new feature of RTW, a nice one but not implemented to its fullest potential, wich to a degree makes it worse than the old system.

Hopefully this will be working better in the next release where missiles will aquire a new target (on orders) on the next reload cycle but on orders to move or auto skirmish will execute them right away.

Also I'll have to try putting them under A.I. control as a test at some point as A.I. controlled skirmishers and human controlled (auto)skirmishers work differently. I don't know if this will have an effect in this category or if human(A.I) controlled skirmishers will work the same as the A.I. skirmishers will.

The Stranger
11-16-2005, 16:05
wtf i just noticed this in my 1st battle in my berber campaign...it friggin sliced my cav to pieces this way. they stopped chasing routers in front of a uncaptured gateway///damn i was furious...i never noticed it before...wait i did...but only when chasing routers

Red Harvest
11-16-2005, 17:23
If you catch your skirmishers while they are less than ~ 20 percent reloaded they will execute your new order.

So this was a new feature of RTW, a nice one but not implemented to its fullest potential, wich to a degree makes it worse than the old system.

Hopefully this will be working better in the next release where missiles will aquire a new target (on orders) on the next reload cycle but on orders to move or auto skirmish will execute them right away.

I couldn't call it "nice." This sort of behaviour is a serious impediment to proper skirmish fighting. It probably also encourages the AI's headlong rush at skirmishers backed by infantry/cavalry. I can understand why it would take a short time for troops to respond to a charge. But skirmish units should fall back easily, rather than taking so much work.

Mongoose
11-16-2005, 18:19
It is a big problem in 1.3. Units get "stuck" as other units approach. It's like the approaching enemy has a tractor beam. Or perhaps it is like one of those nightmares where you can't run for some reason...or your legs are moving, but you aren't going anywhere...yeah, it's like that nightmare.


heh. I get that one alot...Except you can run, it's just too slow to out run what ever is chasing you...runnig in place almost...and you have a rubbery feeling. Some times i try to punch what evers chasing me, but my arms are rubbery too.

back on topic:


This is a very annoying probelm and i've seen in other versions. It wouldn't be quite so bad if they just removed the annoying order delay(I think Puzz3D Found that it was about 2 seconds) thanks to those two problems, using Horse archers to attack spear men often goes like this: Run, shoot arrows, stop, get hit by pikes, finally obey order to run after 50% losses, rout....~:joker:

You could use skirmish mode, but the skirmish pathfinding isn't great and it's better to control them your self IMO, other iwse they get chased inot a wall pretty fast.

dismal
11-16-2005, 20:55
I make a point of keeping an unit of friendly cavalry hanging near them for those occasions. I've noticed even the most close-order heavy cavalry can move through sufficiently loose-order friendlies (Hunters on standard and most other archers on loose, for example) almost like they weren't there, which in practical terms means countercharging right through the archers to give the enemy cav something better to do.

And that's only on the flanks of or away from the main infantry line. If you're skirmishing your archers back and forth through the main line, I've found it best to just plain keep an eye on the enemy cav and manually tell the archers to take a hike early enough if need be - if you don't, then even when all goes well the speed of the horses tends to be great enough in relation to that of the archers and their "skirmish trigger" range that if you're lucky the cavalry crashes into their rear around the same time they overlap and mess up the infantry line, so some micromanaging is recommended.

I do all these things when they are available, and have learned to expect the delay in archers running. Still sometimes they are unbelievably slow to respond and you lose 30-40 of them anyway.


Personally, unless the enemy is about 100% infantry or otherwise rather slow-moving I tend to stick my archers behind the heavies. Just plain safer that way. And the AI is tactically inept enough that I still tend to beat it in firefights, assuming equal range or better range.

More often than not, I run into this problem when I sally out in a siege. I am basically using the archers to harass the enemy and trying to lure them within range of the walls. This approach necessarily leaves the archers somewhat vulnerable, but I lose a lot more of them than I otherwise would because of the "failure to run when told" issue. Ironically, once they rout, they run full out for the gate, which is exactly what I wanted them to do when I controlled them but couldn't convince them to do.

I must say this is the one issue that reduces me to yelling at the screen. "Run you #$%~! idiots, I told you to &%^@ RUN!!!"

Trithemius
11-22-2005, 06:29
I must say this is the one issue that reduces me to yelling at the screen. "Run you #$%~! idiots, I told you to &%^@ RUN!!!"

Exactly the same here, closely followed by: "Nooooooooooo!" when they get cut to pieces.

*mutters*

pezhetairoi
11-25-2005, 05:43
I tend to be more violent with my CPU as well. And usually in punishment I charge them back into the slaughter (if they haven't already routed) to get annihilated. When the battle is over I go to the nearest archery range and order up another 2 units of archers. :-D

Cirith Ungol
11-29-2005, 23:35
O.K. its not so much there deaf as much as they just dont seem to care.
It only happens to me during bridge battles and recently it seems it has gotten worse.
I was playin as Sassanids and attacking oh I cant remember now lol probably some dirty romans , and it was a bridge battle .
I commanded a clibernase heavy cavelry to move to the right side of the bridge I turned off fire at will first and nothing so I tried again nothin I turned my attention to another more loyal unit for one second and looked back and bam they were moving all right but most of them had run into the water and drowned and the 3 left ran blindly around until shot down by many enemy archers. Well I laughed and cried lol what they dont know they cant swim ?? and they also spread way out I mean way out if loose formation were this loose you would never get shot lol.
I dont get it
Another funny one which may or may not be the same thing happened when a javalin unit of mine disambarked from a seige tower to the walls of jeruseleum, they were all out of the tower so I commanded them to go to ground level and attack a unit by the gate.
Well at first they ignored me and fire at will had been off so it wasnt that, then I commanded it again and I guess I scared them lol because they walked to the edge of the wall and jumped to there deaths screaming the whole way lol it was sad and kinda sick and then it was way funny lol besides the not listening it was some awsome realism lol
:charge: :charge:
Wait..Which way is right ??

gardibolt
11-29-2005, 23:37
It's particularly bad for me on sallies. If I send some cavalry out to harass a stray group of archers, it's almost impossible to get them back into the city. They run off in the opposite direction (usually into approaching spearmen) and get slaughtered.

Cirith Ungol
11-30-2005, 01:01
It's particularly bad for me on sallies. If I send some cavalry out to harass a stray group of archers, it's almost impossible to get them back into the city. They run off in the opposite direction (usually into approaching spearmen) and get slaughtered.

Are you using horse archers because it sounds like they may have skirmish mode on

Red Harvest
11-30-2005, 02:24
The gate is a problem with or without skirmish on. They will often try to line up in a long column at the gate, and run backwards toward the enemy to do it.

Skirmish can make them uncontrollable of course, but turning it off won't fix gate behavior.

gardibolt
11-30-2005, 20:03
Are you using horse archers because it sounds like they may have skirmish mode on

No, Frankish Raiders, which don't have a skirmish mode at all.