30 years in prison for sex... what the crap!? [Archive]

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Lazul

11-16-2005, 12:31

Idaho

11-16-2005, 12:34

(sorry about the link being in swedish)
I still clicked on it - doh!

Er.. based on your relaying the facts of the case, that does seem harsh. However I would need to see more details. Presumably they convicted her of supplying drugs to minors and statutory rape?

Meneldil

11-16-2005, 12:37

Well, if she's the woman on the left on the pic, then she surely deserves 30 years in jail. Either her daughter's friends were so drunk they would have had sex with the first thing they had on their hand, or she somehow hypnotized them with lots and lots of weird drugs and alcohol. She might even have blackmailed them in some way. ~D

Well, that joke apart, this is seriously f***ed up. None deserves 30 years in jail for that. Is the decision final ?

bmolsson

11-16-2005, 12:39

It can't be rape. She never let them stick it in....... ;)

BDC

11-16-2005, 12:54

30 years for that?! That's insane. That's longer than mass murderers get sometimes.

Ser Clegane

11-16-2005, 13:48

Some respect for the forum rules on bad language would be appreciated

Thanks

Ser Clegane :bow:

KukriKhan

11-16-2005, 14:38

The gory details (in English) from The Smoking Gun http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0124051partymom1.html

She'll be free in much less than 30 years.

English assassin

11-16-2005, 14:41

I bet Anne Bancroft is worried...

InsaneApache

11-16-2005, 15:56

I bet Anne Bancroft is worried...

Well if they exhumed her they could ask ..... ~;)

ichi

11-16-2005, 17:54

compare with these US stories

thread link (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=48535&page=2)

Crazed Rabbit

11-16-2005, 18:15

Now ok, that is rather f'ed up right there but who the hell are anyone ells to say what they should or should not do!?

Um...the other kid's parents, perhaps?

Let's switch this around. What if a guy were getting his child's female friends drunk and having sex with them?

Crazed Rabbit

Dâriûsh

11-16-2005, 19:34

Indeed.

Lazul, imagine if your kids were subjected to this.

Adrian II

11-16-2005, 19:47

What if a guy were getting his child's female friends drunk and having sex with them?Making plans for the weekend? ~:cool:

Anyway, my answer to the question: five years in prison plus a permanent restraining order.

Lazul

11-16-2005, 19:50

If all the participants in the sexual act is in on it... and the age difference isnt absurd I couldnt care less.

And since I have no child I should'nt even have an oppinion about it since I cant image how it is.

Kanamori

11-16-2005, 19:55

Those poor guys...~:eek:

Papewaio

11-16-2005, 20:51

Kaiser of Arabia

11-16-2005, 23:08

Statuatory Rape = many years.

Watchman

11-16-2005, 23:23

Edit: eh, nevermind. Brain fart.

Strike For The South

11-17-2005, 02:34

wow 30 years does seem a bit much and if the kids were fine butting uglys with her the laws main fouces should be on the drugs and achool but if this was a dirty old man he wouldve probably been lynched by now

Soulforged

11-17-2005, 06:01

http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,730706,00.html

hmm ok so this woman/mother has parties for her daughter and her friends a whole year, they drink, take drugs and all that. Who doesnt get drunk theese days!?

She also has sex with ther daughters friends. Now ok, that is rather f'ed up right there but who the hell are anyone ells to say what they should or should not do!?

She gets 30 (30 f'ekkin years!!!!!!) for the whole thing. The only crime I can see is the drug-taking, well should you get 30 years for taking drugs!?

You got some weird justise system over the other side of the lake! :bow:

(sorry about the link being in swedish)
Yes well as I cannot see the material I cannot make a proper judgement but...This appears to be one of those irrational means on the war against drugs (logical impossibility?). Perhaps we've returned to the days when it was ok to use a persons life to make an example or send a warning. Really sad :no: If it's not, and I'm being a conspiracy theorist, then it's outrageous. I think the maximum of the conviction should be the minimum established on the law (if any) minus any existent decreases of culpability. Also the a reasonable range should be between 2 to 6 years, no more.

Seamus Fermanagh

11-17-2005, 06:12

Individuals being below the age of consent is the pivotal issue here. No adult has the right to take advantage of a minor in this fashion (yes, I recognize that chronology is not a fool-proof determinant of maturity, but it is valid enough to have served as a legal standard in nearly all societies throughout history, though the specific age chosen has varied substantially). Given the usual inconsistency between sentence and time served, the 30 years of awarded punishment were probably assigned in order to generate the 5-6 years some of you think to be more fitting.

Consenting adults? Different issue entirely.

Ronin

11-17-2005, 10:26

looking at the photo of the woman I can understand the penalty...........

surelly she was convicted of inflicting a "cruel and unusual punishment" on those kids.....~D

Prodigal

11-17-2005, 12:06

[QUOTE=Lazul]If all the participants in the sexual act is in on it... and the age difference isnt absurd I couldnt care less.[QUOTE]
zackly...Plus, throw your minds back to your own teenage years...Can't speak for everyone, but personally, I woulda joined in & praised the lord! However flogging whizz to kiddies is a nobrainer "nono"...So you get caught, bad luck you're busted & have to take what they dish out.

Kralizec

11-17-2005, 14:06

looking at the photo of the woman I can understand the penalty...........

surelly she was convicted of inflicting a "cruel and unusual punishment" on those kids.....~D

Good one ~:joker:

GoreBag

11-17-2005, 20:36

Sucks that they caught her. She seems like a pretty rockin' mom, if a little bit...uh...poorly aged. I wonder who ratted her out.

PanzerJaeger

11-17-2005, 20:44

If it was sex with a minor that normally automatically counts as rape as the youth is too young to consent to sex.

Also supplying drugs to a minor can be a fairly serious offence.

Can't say I pity the woman if this is the case.

If mass murderers are getting lesser sentences that points to those sentences being incorrect not this one.

Well said.

I guess its just our screwed up morality "across the pond", but we consider drugging and raping kids as a serious offense.

Sasaki Kojiro

11-17-2005, 21:32

Did she actually get charged with rape? All of the boys listed in that court statement from the smoking gun were over 15.

Supplying methampthetamines is very serious though, and the rest of the drugs were bad.

Kralizec

11-17-2005, 22:37

Is it even considered rape under US law? I know Dutch law defines rape as penetrating the victims body without his/her consent. That rules out rape for women, unless...nevermind, let's not go there.

GoreBag

11-17-2005, 22:40

Is it even considered rape under US law? I know Dutch law defines rape as penetrating the victims body without his/her consent. That rules out rape for women, unless...nevermind, let's not go there.

Oh, no, you didn't.

Xiahou

11-17-2005, 23:10

If it was sex with a minor that normally automatically counts as rape as the youth is too young to consent to sex.

Also supplying drugs to a minor can be a fairly serious offence.

Can't say I pity the woman if this is the case.

If mass murderers are getting lesser sentences that points to those sentences being incorrect not this one.
Sounds pretty good to me. Not only has she committed criminal acts, but she has done so repeatedly over a long period of time. That warrants harsh punishment, imo.

Lazul

11-18-2005, 13:30

well it feels like the highschool students are marked as retarded really.

Concerning drugs, she didnt force them to take drugs, atleast i dont think so. Lets say someone try to sell or give you drugs and you dont want it you say "NO"... thats it!
Now if they willingly take the drugs, thats their choice.

As for the sex... its the same thing, if the mom tells them she wants she wanna have sex with 'em, they only have to say; NO!... thats it.

The kids made a choice when they woke up that day, asking themselfs; "Hey do I want to visit that mom again, take some drugs and maybe score me some mom?"
And they thought; YES!

what im trying to say is that they all made a choice to live this way for a while. Its not all the mom's fault.

But also, why the hell 30 years? In Sweden we atleast try and help the convicts to become normal again, to heal their mentality so to speak and reinstall them into society.
How will her mentality be when she gets out? if she gets out, might die in prison under those 30 years. I doubt americans really think she is such a danger to society she has to be locked away for 30 years!
I also feel sorry for her family, they have to live with the fact that she is in jail for an extremely long time.
Also, keep in mind, she hasnt killed anyone.

doc_bean

11-18-2005, 13:51

what im trying to say is that they all made a choice to live this way for a while. Its not all the mom's fault.

But also, why the hell 30 years? In Sweden we atleast try and help the convicts to become normal again, to heal their mentality so to speak and reinstall them into society.
How will her mentality be when she gets out? if she gets out, might die in prison under those 30 years. I doubt americans really think she is such a danger to society she has to be locked away for 30 years!
I also feel sorry for her family, they have to live with the fact that she is in jail for an extremely long time.
Also, keep in mind, she hasnt killed anyone.

Bleh, it's her fault for not moving to Belgium where you only get a year (tops !) for raping a child, okay maybe two or three if it's a bunch of kids, where drug dealers usually aren't locked up but given a slap on the wrist (so to speak of course, corporal punishment would be cruel) and were murderers get out within 6 years (unless it's a woman killing her husband, they get out within a year).

Everyone seems to agree that what she did was wrong, so we're not arguing about that. Yes, 30 years seems excessive, but she knew that what she did was illegal (or she is retarded, actually, most retarded people would probably know this as well) but she did it anyway, not once, not a few times, but constantly. Her behaviour was imho bordering on sociopathic. She probably belongs more in a mental hospital than in a prison, but hey, that's everyone's excuse these days.

I can feel sorry for the 18y old that gets sentenced for satuatory (sp?) rape because he made love to his 6month younger girlfriend, but she doesn't get my pity, even if I am a bleeding heart liberal :knight:

Lazul

11-18-2005, 17:49

Bleh, it's her fault for not moving to Belgium where you only get a year (tops !) for raping a child, okay maybe two or three if it's a bunch of kids, where drug dealers usually aren't locked up but given a slap on the wrist (so to speak of course, corporal punishment would be cruel) and were murderers get out within 6 years (unless it's a woman killing her husband, they get out within a year).

Everyone seems to agree that what she did was wrong, so we're not arguing about that. Yes, 30 years seems excessive, but she knew that what she did was illegal (or she is retarded, actually, most retarded people would probably know this as well) but she did it anyway, not once, not a few times, but constantly. Her behaviour was imho bordering on sociopathic. She probably belongs more in a mental hospital than in a prison, but hey, that's everyone's excuse these days.

I can feel sorry for the 18y old that gets sentenced for satuatory (sp?) rape because he made love to his 6month younger girlfriend, but she doesn't get my pity, even if I am a bleeding heart liberal :knight:

Well im not saying that she hasnt done something rather sick and disgusting, but it seams like she is getting 30 years in prison only based on some really hatefull morals.
Does anyone really think she will change in prison for the better during 30 years? Would she be different if it was 20 years?

I am only 22, in other words, I havent even lived for as long as she will be in prison.

doc_bean

11-19-2005, 00:24

Well im not saying that she hasnt done something rather sick and disgusting, but it seams like she is getting 30 years in prison only based on some really hatefull morals.
Does anyone really think she will change in prison for the better during 30 years? Would she be different if it was 20 years?

I am only 22, in other words, I havent even lived for as long as she will be in prison.

Well, the European view on prison is (mostly) that it should be used as a means to help re-integrate the criminals into normal society. In the US they tend to focus more on the punishment (and fear) aspect. Both views have their merits.

Soulforged

11-19-2005, 00:38

Concerning drugs, she didnt force them to take drugs, atleast i dont think so. Lets say someone try to sell or give you drugs and you dont want it you say "NO"... thats it!
Now if they willingly take the drugs, thats their choice.This crime is an anacronism.

As for the sex... its the same thing, if the mom tells them she wants she wanna have sex with 'em, they only have to say; NO!... thats it.You see, it's not so simple. Presuntions when regarding minority, at least here, are iure est de iure (wich means that they're pure of law, there's no proof in contrary). This considers all minors to be incaple of distiguishing things properly when it comes to let's say any kind of adult behavior, such as comerce or sex too.

what im trying to say is that they all made a choice to live this way for a while. Its not all the mom's fault.That's true. I think that there should be contrary proof on this cases that the minors knew what they were doing.

But also, why the hell 30 years? In Sweden we atleast try and help the convicts to become normal again, to heal their mentality so to speak and reinstall them into society.That's not so good, it's treating the person as an instrument. The way to go should be appeal this outrageous conviction and modify it.

Kaiser of Arabia

11-19-2005, 00:42

Meh, I'd give her a week and then bullet in back of skull.