best army

[VAE VICTUS]

ok who as of today has the best army?
u.s.
china
britain
etc.
who would win?

[GoreBag]

Probably KISS.

[AggonyDuck]

The question sadly has a rather obvious answer, but perhaps if you'd ask it in about 10-15 years and I think there might actually be more of possible answers.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Britain certainly has one of/if not the best trained armies in the world, what with the royal Marines and SAS squadrons supporting them, they are dammed near invincible in pitched battle. Unfortunatly we dont have the numbers that comapre to the US and china, (not that i'm saying that the us and chinese armies are untrained) therefore i have no idea who has the best army

[The_Doctor]

Bartix:duel:

[Sasaki Kojiro]

The salvation army.

[Reverend Joe]

The Hell's Angels used to have the most formidable army- but most of them are too old now.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Moved to the Backroom.

[Watchman]

Probably the only standing army in the world that the US perhaps couldn't win in a straight war even if it really tried to would be the Chinese one - on account of sheer size and resource base. There's no real way the Chinese could win, mind you, but they could grimly hang on until the US tires and sues for (nigh certainly advantageous) peace.

This is assuming a "no nukes" setting, though.

[Geoffrey S]

Holland? They'd polder the crap out of anyone.

[Reverend Joe]

Holland? They'd polder the crap out of anyone.
I think Belgium has something to say about that. But I'm not sure what.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Germany. I mean, presuming we cower, and don't launch any offensive operations. And no nukes.


Heck, forget it. We're not that great.


GO BARTIX!





Seriously though, Germany and Britain have the best training for their soldiers in the world.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Hard. Very hard.

The quality of a soldier is hard to judge. If you're talking about the best of the best, the USMC can kill just about anyone alive today. However, if you're speaking of relative standing army, Germany and Austria give the US army a run for it's money. Their training is very good, mainly because they have so much time to train in. I can't really answer this question, though.

[solypsist]

NeonGod for teh win!

[Tribesman]

The Irish Army , it has never been defeated and really put on an impressive show in Saving Private Ryan and Braveheart .

[Redleg]

The Irish Army , it has never been defeated and really put on an impressive show in Saving Private Ryan and Braveheart .


Well your forgetting a couple Irish units

THe Irish Brigade that fought for the Mexican Army during the Mexican-American War during the 1800's. But don't forget they all deserted from the American Army.

Or how about the Irish Brigades that fought in the Civil War, probably the largest immigrant group that fought on the side of the Union. (But I can't remember for sure right now.)

[Marcellus]

When you say 'who has the best army', do you mean 'the most powerful army' (which would be America, no real debate there), or do you mean 'best army' in the sense of best trained and equipped, in which case we have a debate? Also, are we looking at regular armies only, more elite forces, or the army as a whole?

[Tribesman]

Well your forgetting a couple Irish units

Nope , the topic was todays army.
ok who as of today has the best army?

[Redleg]

Well your forgetting a couple Irish units

Nope , the topic was todays army.
ok who as of today has the best army?


Then the Irish don't qualify since the movies were made before yesterday. ~:eek:

[Redleg]

When you say 'who has the best army', do you mean 'the most powerful army' (which would be America, no real debate there), or do you mean 'best army' in the sense of best trained and equipped, in which case we have a debate? Also, are we looking at regular armies only, more elite forces, or the army as a whole?

You would have to go with the Army as a whole - just based upon the question asked.


ok who as of today has the best army?

Well my extremely baised vote is of course the United States Army.

But I also would be place China a close 2nd - for many of the reasons already mentioned. What they lack in equipment and training they more then make up in numbers.

[Tribesman]

Then the Irish don't qualify since the movies were made before yesterday
But the Army has improved since the films , the revenue it created has meant that they could finally buy a couple of APCs and put an engine in one of their old Scimitars . Now all they need is for the Navy to get a film role so they can finally buy that deck gun they couldn't afford , maybe the Aircorps needs some money as well as their old Fouga Magisters are grounded .
So everyone launch a campaign in Hollywood , more films for Ireland as the defense forces could really do with the money . ~:cheers:

[DemonArchangel]

America: Got Ca$h?

China: It's not just their numbers, some of their weapons are truly nasty.

British: For sucking up to the Americans.

Israelis: For walking the fine line between madness and genius.

[Somebody Else]

The Swiss... that army knife will stop anyone!

Honestly though, the US clearly has superiority in terms of destructive capability. The PRC may have a lot of men, but these days - manpower isn't everything. (I realise I may be biased somewhat here - considering I plan to join etc.) I do think the UK still has the best trained army - partly due to the training, and partly due to being pretty much continually involved in some kind of military action or other for gods know how long.

[Kralizec]

I think the Israeli army, wich never has run short of real life experience. Very good equipment, and for a small country Israel has a large and capable reserve force.

[Incongruous]

Britain!
Stuff the yanks, they think they're tough pah! Haven't seen them conquer a quater of the known world, plus we have better sounding accent's and the calm and cool reserve of the British officer class!:charge:

[Strike For The South]

USA all the way NC baby We could destroy everyone~:cool: espesically the marines. Other than the israelis are badass mothas

[LeftEyeNine]

I'll not disappoint any patriots here this time..

USA IS THE BEST USA IS VERY GOOD USA JUST MAKES UP MY DREAMS USA ALL THE WAY HEY HEY I SAVED THE WORLD TODAY !!

[Ice]

I'll not disappoint any patriots here this time..

USA IS THE BEST USA IS VERY GOOD USA JUST MAKES UP MY DREAMS USA ALL THE WAY HEY HEY I SAVED THE WORLD TODAY !!

:bow:

I agree.

[Tachikaze]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.

[Kanamori]

Until someone decides they hate the US for what it is culturally and blows our buildings up.~:)

[Togakure]

Probably KISS.
Eheheheheheheeheheh! That was good. Thanks for the chuckle.

I'm a member of the KISS army: I saw them in the mid-90s on their revival tour, in full make-up and with a fabulous set from the old days. It was hilarious to see all these 30-40 year-olds (me and six of my mates and their mistresses included) headbangin', gettin' loaded, and having a great time just like in the ol' days. They put on a monster show, even after all these years. GET UP, GET DOWN!

KISS ROCKS!

[Papewaio]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.

New Zealand?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.
Canada?

*tacks on list of "To Bomb by 2050 if I ever become dictator of a nation that has the technology for bombers, simply because someone likes that nation" list* :charge: ~D jk of course.

[Reverend Joe]

I'll not disappoint any patriots here this time..

USA IS THE BEST USA IS VERY GOOD USA JUST MAKES UP MY DREAMS USA ALL THE WAY HEY HEY I SAVED THE WORLD TODAY !!
:hide:

Seriously, I think Tribesman nailed it. However, I can't seem to make myself think in the present... too much time in the past. In that case, the Scots are on the level as well; the highlanders were some of the best single regiments in history.

Also, the Turkish troops at Balaclava were, apparently, very highly disciplined; theywithstood a continuous, 30-gun barrage and a massive Russian assault for three hours before they were forced to abandon their redoubt; not to mention the fact that they made up two-thirds of the "thin red line", and without them the Highlanders would have folded. From what I have heard, this was, in large part, due to the Turkish military school at Constantinople, which was an underrated institution, as it was located at the heart of the Sick Man of Europe, and not a modern empire.

(Sorry for the rant. But modern times are so damn boring.)

[Papewaio]

If you are going to use history and quality then the Aussies did pretty well.

http://africanhistory.about.com/library/prm/blworstenemies3.htm


In early August, a force of 150 Queensland Mounted Infantry, 100 New South Wales Bushmen, smaller numbers of Victorian and Western Australian Bushmen and 75 Rhodesians under command of a British officer, a Colonel Hore, were sent to guard a huge consignment of stores at the Elands River Post. They arrived at the post after a running fight with Boers front a commando of 2,500 to 3,000, commanded by General Jacobus "Koos" de la Rey, and quickly improvised a defensive position out of ox wagons and boxes and bags of stores. The commando surrounded the post and during the next two days poured 2,500 artillery shells into it from the hills around. Nearly all of the 1,500 horses, mules and oxen were killed or died of wounds from the shelling, but the troop casualties were very light, since the men burrowed into the rocky ground and stayed down. After the second day the bombardment eased, probably because the Boers realized they were destroying the stores they badly needed, but they kept up intense rifle and machine-gun fire.

During the day, the defenders lay motionless in their holes in the ground, but at night they came out. Some ran the gauntlet of fire to bring water from the river, while others repaired shattered defenses and dug deeper holes and others went out into the darkness looking for Boer field-gun and machine-gun positions, which they attacked loudly with grenades or silently with knives and bayonets. Many sleeping Boers and even wide-awake sentries lost their lives in this night stalking and attack. A Boer who had been at Elands River wrote: "For the first time in the war, we were fighting men who used our own tactics against us. They were Australian volunteers and though small in number we could not take their position. They were the only troops who could scout our lines at night and kill our sentries while killing and capturing our scouts. Our men admitted that the Australians were more formidable opponents and far more dangerous than any other British troops."

On August 8, de la Rey, under a flag of truce, advised the Australians that the whole area was in Boer hands and there was no hope of relief for the post. He offered safe conduct to the nearest British garrison if they would surrender. It was that, or destruction by his artillery. The offer was refused, and the bombardment began again. On the 12th, de la Rey sent another offer of honorable surrender, to which Colonel Hore replied: "Even if I wished to surrender to you--and I don't--I am commanding Australians who would cut my throat if I accepted your terms."

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-heroes/monash.htm


The role of the Australian Corps in 1918 was indeed a remarkable one. Comprising only 9.5% of the BEF, it captured 18.5% of the German prisoners, 21.5% of the territory and 14% of the guns captured. This represented an effectiveness 1.95, 2.23 and 1.47 times that of the British Army average. These victories came at a cost, but this was still considerably less than that of the Somme fighting of 1916, or the Passchendaele fighting of 1917 or even the fighting at Bullecourt and Messines in mid 1917, and the results were immensely greater. The casualties were more or less matched by the 25,000 German prisoners taken; that many more Germans were killed or wounded is certain but their numbers are not known. Some 623 square kilometres of France was recaptured from the enemy.

Then there is WWII...

[Shaka_Khan]

The ones with the best army are aliens who live in a galaxy far far away.

[Ice]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.

Until their neighbors with the larger army come knocking on their door. They then proceed to rape their women, burn all the buildings, and murder all the men and children.

Who needs an army!

[LeftEyeNine]

Zorba, if there is something very good around here, it is generally American, haven't you learned ? ~;)

[Strike For The South]

Zorba, if there is something very good around here, it is generally American, haven't you learned ? ~;)

We are gods choosen what do you excepect? now al of you on your knees:knight:

[LeftEyeNine]

We are gods choosen what do you excepect? now al of you on your knees:knight:

Nah, I don't believe God makes mistakes..

[Reverend Joe]

Zorba, if there is something very good around here, it is generally American, haven't you learned ? ~;)
Then call me a no-good half-Irish, half-Khazar pinko freak! :jester:

[Strike For The South]

Nah, I don't believe God makes mistakes..

why dont you go kill some armenians~;)

[Papewaio]

We are gods choosen what do you excepect? now al of you on your knees:knight:

I thought we were talking about armies not corny pickup lines... ~:joker:

[LeftEyeNine]

why dont you go kill some armenians

Here is another Turkish proverb for such situations :

" That's a magpie on the rooftop,
Hit it with an pickaxe in the waist "

I bet you all said " WTF ?! ", and bingo ! That's what the proverb wants to tell.

[Strike For The South]

I thought we were talking about armies not corny pickup lines... ~:joker:

is there honestly that much diffrence~:confused:

[PanzerJaeger]

USA IS THE BEST USA IS VERY GOOD USA JUST MAKES UP MY DREAMS USA ALL THE WAY HEY HEY I SAVED THE WORLD TODAY !!

Exactly! ~:cheers:

[bmolsson]

If we assume that two armies meet in full amount on a location unkown to both, surely the US army are the strongest and largest today. But if we see the purpose of the army itself, defense, there are not so many armies to put up.

[Zalmoxis]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.
Great philosophy. I'll be sure to conquer whatever country you rule first when I become instated as dictator ~;) .

[Tachikaze]

Until their neighbors with the larger army come knocking on their door. They then proceed to rape their women, burn all the buildings, and murder all the men and children.

Who needs an army!
There are many successful nations in no danger of invasion without large military budgets.

[Tachikaze]

Until someone decides they hate the US for what it is culturally and blows our buildings up.~:)
In 2001, the Twin Towers fell in spite of the fat, overfed US military.

The Pentagon itself was hit. Not much defense.

[Watchman]

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.Huh. That'd put us Finns pretty high on the ladder. Coscript armies run comparatively cheaply, you know ?

[Ja'chyra]

We are gods choosen what do you excepect? now al of you on your knees:knight:

Now if only God had chosen to give you the gift of spelling then the US would rule supreme.

No, wait, don't you just change the words to suit yourselves anyway?

Honour, metre....................

[Arcanum]

Sad, sad world... no doubt the U.S. army is the most well-fed army of today. So if my peaceful country would get attacked by the evil-weevil neighbours I would simply call the Americans and tell 'em to bomb the damn crap outta the aggressors.

Well...no...my pride would feel hurt. I'd set up the Prussian Army again! All hail! :charge:

[yesdachi]

Although the US only has ¼ of the population of China the US has 8 times the GDP as China and both are nearly the same size (in total sq miles) with the US being only slightly larger. But because of the US’s more industrialized infrastructure, economy and logistic capabilities the US would have an advantage against all others with any kind of short term or prolonged military action.

The biggest adversary the US military faces is its own people. The US citizens tire quickly of war and can cause a major disruption to the country leading to poor decisions on the part of the government. If the conservatives were joined by the liberals, who are usually opposed to war (and too many other things to mention), to collectively work as a total united country against a common threat the US would be completely unstoppable. It is out fractured population that turn prolonged military actions into a soup sandwich.~:)

Here is a nice article I found on the subject.
Its not really a spoiler, I just wanted to try putting the article in the post without taking up all the room. There is a link in there too.:bow:

The Ten Most Powerful Armed Forces on the Planet (http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/2004617.asp)
by James Dunnigan
June 17, 2004
Which country on the planet has the most powerful armed forces? It's not a matter of numbers, although that's a major factor. It's more a matter of other things that are not often discussed.
By size (number of troops), the top ten nations looks like this;

China
United States
India
Korea, North
Russia
Korea, South
Pakistan
Israel
Turkey
Iran

But anyone who has studied military history knows that the number of troops is a misleading measure. There are several factors that make the troops of one army more effective than others. The most obvious modifying factor is weapons and equipment (quantity and quality). Closely related to this are the “combat support” elements. The most important of these are logistics (being able to move troops, and their supplies, long distances and in a timely manner) and maintenance (keeping things in repair and running under all conditions.) Then there are the intangibles (like leadership, training and the most intangible item of all; military tradition.) Apply all of those to the raw number of troops and you get different number. This number is called "combat power."

Top Ten By Combat Power

United States
China
Israel
India
Russia
Korea, South
Korea, North
United Kingdom
Turkey
Pakistan

The most unusual entry here is Israel. But this is because Israel is one of the few nations to have a reserve army that can be mobilized for action more quickly than most countries can get their active duties into shape for combat. The mobilized Israeli armed forces number over half a million troops. In addition, the Israelis have world class equipment and weapons, as well as exceptional intangibles. The downsize of this is that mobilizing its armed forces also cripples the Israeli economy. Under these conditions, Israel must conduct a war that ends within a few months. After that, supplying the armed forces becomes difficult and actual combat power begins to decline.

The other nations in the top ten have large armed forces that are well equipped and trained, at least compared to most nations farther down on the list. Britain’s armed forces, like Israel’s, are better equipped, trained and more experienced than most. Turkey benefits from having a strong military tradition and excellent leadership at the small unit level, as well as good combat training.

Overall, the U.S. combat power is about three times that of second place China, and ten times that of tenth place Pakistan. But another modifying factor is how you plan to use that combat power. Wars are not fought in a vacuum, but in places that often inconvenient places for one side. Most armed forces are optimized for fighting on their own borders; for defending the homeland. Only the United States is capable of quickly moving lots of combat power to anywhere on the planet. Moreover, given a few months, the United States can put enough combat power just about anywhere, and become the major military force in that neighborhood. Countries like Britain and France can move some forces to just about anywhere on the planet. But no one can put forces anywhere quite like the United States.
For most nations with powerful armed forces, it's mainly a matter of having the most formidable military force in the neighborhood.

[English assassin]

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.

Then than would be Iceland which has no armed forces at all.

The US army is obviously without any serious challenger (including the Chinese, whose equipment is far too poor) but I'd rather PAY FOR the British Army any day.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

If the question is whos has the most pwerful armed forces the clear winner is the US. We have the most powerful military in the history of the world by a large margin.

[LeftEyeNine]

We have the most powerful military in the history of the world by a large margin.

I'm sure Johnnies would route off the battlefield when they saw the Golden Horde..

Anyway, I want to repeat : (altogether, clap your hands)

USA IS VERY BEST AH USA WHAT WOULD WE HAVE DONE WITHOUT YOUR MIGHTY PRESENCE, I NEED USA, USA IN MY DREAMS, HEY HEY THEY SAVE THE WORLD EVERYDAY. WHAT IF THE ALIENS ATTACKED ? OF COURSE IT WOULD BE USA SAVING THE WORLD HEY HEY HEY !!!

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I'm sure Johnnies would route off the battlefield when they saw the Golden Horde..


I doubt that very much. Even the German army of WW2 wouldnt last a month against the small force we have now.

[Lazul]

Thay ofcourse... they have the Red Wizards man!

... oh wait... in our world?

USA ofcourse... most money = most firepower.

[LeftEyeNine]

I doubt that very much. Even the German army of WW2 wouldnt last a month against the small force we have now.

I think the cows will fly one day..

How do you assume that ?

[master of the puppets]

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

we have superior navys to everyone and almost complete air superiority (a few give us a run for our money, but i don't know chinas airial situation) and our tanks are only rivaled by the germAns and british. the marines are the best standing infintry in the world and our spec ops are only beaten by GBs and possibly Isreals. so really in war our only problem would be the 100,000,000,000,000,000,000, bajjilion screamin chinese.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I think the cows will fly one day..

How do you assume that ?


Lets see. ME 109 vs F-15, Tiger vs A1 Abrahms , Apache and Cobra vs ? would you like to continue?

[LeftEyeNine]

With your minimal army against WW2 Germans you said, right ?

[ah_dut]

Yes, the superiority is that great lefteyenine...I hate to agree with Gawain but he is correct. Assuming the American force has sufficient ammunition I think say a division could trump a vastly superior force of WWII germans, the technology is just that superior

Saying that the USMC are the best infantarymen in the world by a mile is somewhat misleading...the royal marines aren't famous for nothing...and there are also quite a lot of marines in the US as opposed to UK

[BDC]

Lets see. ME 109 vs F-15, Tiger vs A1 Abrahms , Apache and Cobra vs ? would you like to continue?

All of those would fail against a flying cow.

Imagine flying into one at mach 2. The entire jet would just disintegrate.

:bow:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Saying that the USMC are the best infantarymen in the world by a mile is somewhat misleading...the royal marines aren't famous for nothing...and there are also quite a lot of marines in the US as opposed to UK

I hate to admit it but thats true. For their size they are the best infantry in the world however. Ive known many British Marines and they are trained above our level. However just like SEALs they are a far smaller force.

[ah_dut]

I hate to admit it but thats true. For their size they are the best infantry in the world however. Ive known many British Marines and they are trained above our level. However just like SEALs they are a far smaller force.
I did mention that the royal marines are a much smaller group but britain is a much smaller country and has a smaller budget...I expect they also perform different functions but I don't know. Since USMC people seem to be deployed as normal infantary more then the Royal matrines I assumed they were less specialized.

Also, I think the USMC is about the size of the british army if my memory serves me correctly...

[Duke Malcolm]

Yes, but the British Army is damned more effective...

The British Army is the best for soldier skill, experience, training, et cetera., as well as good technology
The U.S. has excellent technology (if perhaps a little too good)
the Chinese PLA has vast numbers
Germany also has excellent soldiers, but I don't know its size and equipment, but that is probably also good

The Royal Marines, the Parachute Regiment, the Black Watch, the Guards Division, and numerous other regiments in the British Army are better than the USMC...

[Geoffrey S]

The British Army is the best for soldier skill, experience, training, et cetera., as well as good technology
The U.S. has excellent technology (if perhaps a little too good)
the Chinese PLA has vast numbers
Germany also has excellent soldiers, but I don't know its size and equipment, but that is probably also good
Don't forget the Israelis. They're under constant training, which certainly increases their effectiveness, and they've got good funding.

[Duke Malcolm]

Oh, of course, the Israelis... How could I forget, especialy with those amazing bulldozers...

[Tricon]

I still like the KISS answer.

[Haudegen]

The Austrian government has a nice overview about many nations´military. Beware, German language! ;)

http://www.bmlv.at/truppendienst/milint/td_milint-countrymap.php

[Tricon]

Hey, that IS a nice site. Some facts seem outdated (1999, with some updates up to 2003) but still... thanks.

[yesdachi]

Yes, but the British Army is damned more effective...

The British Army is the best for soldier skill, experience, training, et cetera., as well as good technology...
Isn’t that what the British said before the American Revolution? ~D

[Duke Malcolm]

That's what we've always said and its always been true.

We were ill supplied...

[The_Doctor]

And they had France and Spain. We could not focus our military strength.

If it was a straight fight, no allies or foreign support, we would have won.

[yesdachi]

Just poking fun at the comment, I know the situation. ~;p

[Adrian II]

When it comes to (self-)discipline, doggedness and intelligence of the soldiers, the endgame has to be between Israel and Vietnam. Not a competitor in sight for these two, so sorry.
:bow:

[Togakure]

When it comes to (self-)discipline, doggedness and intelligence of the soldiers, the endgame has to be between Israel and Vietnam. Not a competitor in sight for these two, so sorry.
:bow:
When one considers the environments and circumstances in which these two forces developed, this should come as no surprise. It is also no surprise that they tend to be overlooked in favor of dazzling technology, military wealth and immediate political influence, superiority of numbers, and the romance of popular history.

[scooter_the_shooter]

That's what we've always said and its always been true.

We were ill supplied...


Yes and our guys with no boots had tons of supplies.~:rolleyes:

The reason the US won was we wanted it more. If the brits really wanted to crush us they could have....not any more though~D. Now we could crush them!

[Meneldil]

Weren't France, Holland and Spain supplying the US ?

As for this topic, it get the 'most pointless thread' ever. Of course, the wealthiest and most militarised country in the world will win hand down. Of course, a 21th century army would trample Ceasar's legions and Genghis Khan's Horse Archers. You seriously don't deserve a cookie for finding that out.


The Ten Most Powerful Armed Forces on the Planet

This is study is quite a joke actually. Ten years ago, France had more nuke than China, Pakistan and India together. And I don't know about India, but from what I saw, Pakistan and China strategy is still based on endless wave of canonfodders, which is something event the french army could handle.

[Arcanum]

Umm... The german military is quite one of the smallest forces ever these days, compared to its country's size.

And that comparison of the german WW2 army and the Americans these days is bogus.
Do you compare Caesars Legions to the French Foreign Legion? No.

What you CAN compare, are the numbers+average german technology/equipment level these days, and then tell me that the Americans wouldnt be crushed. Actually, I would even believe you, seeing how much you are wasting on these unimportant things...

But WAIT! You can't even compare that, because the german technology level might have been a lot higher or lower, if we either had won, or there wouldn't even have been a war.

Bah, hopeless discussion I agree, but again:

Isn't it "Alea i/jacta est"?

[DemonArchangel]

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/rankorder/2001rank.html

Those are GDPs.

Anyway, yesdachi, you're wrong about the GDP thing.

[LeftEyeNine]

As for this topic, it get the 'most pointless thread' ever. Of course, the wealthiest and most militarised country in the world will win hand down. Of course, a 21th century army would trample Ceasar's legions and Genghis Khan's Horse Archers. You seriously don't deserve a cookie for finding that out.

Forget my previous posts and let me add a plus under this.. I'm happy that someone could figure out this thread being pointless.. :bow:

[QwertyMIDX]

The Chinese Army is the 2nd largest employer in the world, can anyone guess #1 and #3?

Also, that comparison between the US army and the WWII Germans is silly, you don't say "this is the greatest fighting force of all time because it can beat any other one," it's about its relative strength compared to those it competes with. Making such comparisons in the nuclear era is rather difficult though, and also rather pointless. In a large scale war we're all dead anyway. It would pretty cool to see the end of the world though.

[yesdachi]

I'm happy that someone could figure out this thread being pointless.. :bow:
Most of the Backroom threads are pointless (but fun).~D


@ Demon Archangel – you are correct. I was thinking GNP (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_product). Thanks for keeping me honest:bow:. The page I originally saw the figures on is down but wiki has a chart on it. The numbers are a bit different (maybe a comparison on a different year) but similar.

[DemonArchangel]

World's Biggest Employers:

1.) Wal-Mart- 2.4 Million
2.) People's Liberation Army- 2 Million Active Duty
3.) Indian Railways- 1.6 Million

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I did mention that the royal marines are a much smaller group but britain is a much smaller country and has a smaller budget...I expect they also perform different functions but I don't know. Since USMC people seem to be deployed as normal infantary more then the Royal matrines I assumed they were less specialized.


And you would be correct. They are better trained and more specialised.


Also, I think the USMC is about the size of the british army if my memory serves me correctly...

Actually I believe its larger or equal to your whole armed forces.


The British Army is the best for soldier skill, experience, training, et cetera., as well as good technology


By that you mean just the Army and not the Royal Marines? Then your wrong. In that case its USMC. Ill put our marines against your regulars anytime.

I believe other than China the only standing army that might beat the Marines is of course the US Army.

[Strike For The South]

China cant beat us they do not have the air force or the navy

[LeftEyeNine]

GC,

Did I disappoint you with these words. Tell me..


I'll not disappoint any patriots here this time..

USA IS THE BEST USA IS VERY GOOD USA JUST MAKES UP MY DREAMS USA ALL THE WAY HEY HEY I SAVED THE WORLD TODAY !!

~;)

[QwertyMIDX]

World's Biggest Employers:

1.) Wal-Mart- 2.4 Million
2.) People's Liberation Army- 2 Million Active Duty
3.) Indian Railways- 1.6 Million

The Indian Railways are the world's largest employer according to most sources, with the PLA ranking second and the NHS third.

[InsaneApache]

The reason the US won was we wanted it more. If the brits really wanted to crush us they could have....not any more though. Now we could crush them

I spat my tea out all over my monitor when I read this......I havn't had such a good belly laugh for ages. Now this is why I like Americans. They have a fantastic wit and sense of humour. :knuddel:

It is a matter of fact that the best trained, motivated and disciplined armed forces on the planet are British. Not English, British. :2cents:

[Ianofsmeg16]

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

we have superior navys to everyone and almost complete air superiority (a few give us a run for our money, but i don't know chinas airial situation) and our tanks are only rivaled by the germAns and british. the marines are the best standing infintry in the world and our spec ops are only beaten by GBs and possibly Isreals. so really in war our only problem would be the 100,000,000,000,000,000,000, bajjilion screamin chinese.
lol good answer.

i'm still in the dark as to how the U.S training compares to britain, cos from wat i know about the British armies training, it is possibly one of the best in the world (i'm not alking about comparing the british army to the USMC, as i know they are some of the best troops anyway)

[Duke Malcolm]

By that you mean just the Army and not the Royal Marines? Then your wrong. In that case its USMC. Ill put our marines against your regulars anytime.

It would be remarkably interesting and a wholly unique experience to see the Her Majesty's 42nd Regiment of Foot, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) against an equal number of US Marines and see if the Black Watch don't lose...


It is a matter of fact that the best trained, motivated and disciplined armed forces on the planet are British. Not English, British.

Thank you...

[BDC]

From what I have gathered talking to British soldiers, in joint excercises with the US the UK soldiers normally win.

Then get told off for cheating. Along the lines of "You're not allowed to hide until we have all driven past then claim you have taken the area".

[DemonArchangel]

Americans make REAL shitty anti-insurgent forces.

If you need troops that can pull off the perfect tank blitz, crush loads of conventional forces in the shortest period of time, level entire cities etc. you have to call in the Americans.

If you want anti-insurgent work, call in the British.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

It would be remarkably interesting and a wholly unique experience to see the Her Majesty's 42nd Regiment of Foot, The Black Watch (Royal Highland Regiment) against an equal number of US Marines and see if the Black Watch don't lose...


That it would. But since you picked your army unit can I pick my Marine unit to oppose them? Would you like to put them up against force recon just man to man to no arty or tanks. Just the infantry?

[Duke Malcolm]

I would put them up against an equal number of infantry marines. Of any unit.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

strip them of their helocoptors and tanks and be man for man the british just have superior training and dicipline... but army to army the americans would win

my dad that used to be in the navy said that some american air-craft carriers have so little dicipline that there are rival gangs and gang wars on board ship.. (this is probably an exageration though)
also my step-dad was a tank commander and says that everytime the brits took on the americans in a 'war-game' the brits won ~:cheers: lol

GMM

[Papewaio]

Thay ofcourse... they have the Red Wizards man!

... oh wait... in our world?

USA ofcourse... most money = most firepower.


Isn't there an elite merc force of 10,000 troops in Forgotten Realms that would beat most other armies in that world. ~D ~:cheers:

[Incongruous]

Its Britains finest unit.
1ST Transvestite Brigade dazzling the enemy with their pink jump suits and bright makeup. Plus their lead by the ruthless Eddie Izzard!

[doc_bean]

God's army, their air brigade has flaming swords.

[QwertyMIDX]

And according to John Milton Jesus rides in a huge chariot and hurls thunder bolts.

[bmolsson]

That it would. But since you picked your army unit can I pick my Marine unit to oppose them? Would you like to put them up against force recon just man to man to no arty or tanks. Just the infantry?

Doesn't that sound a bit silly. My dad is bigger than your dad .... ~;)

Each unit have a specific task and they can never be compared direct.

I would argue that there are today no real occupation force on earth, hence the problem for any attacker to actually keep a war won.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I'll put Gawains Marines against the entire Norwegan army...wait...Norway doesn't have much of an army. Damnit.

[Ironside]

I'll put Gawains Marines against the entire Norwegan army...wait...Norway doesn't have much of an army. Damnit.

Lol, I'm assume that you're aware that Norway have a draft? ~;p

Although after the fall of SU the budget have decreased, I would guess that Norway could easily get 200.000 men on foot in less then a week if needed, and probably about a million within a few years (that's about 2/9 of the population, that would mean that the US would pull up 65-66 million men).

On average worse training than the US marines, NATO-standard equipment and homefront.

How big is the marines?
This could end up as a very interesting fight.

[Somebody Else]

I was talking to a Royal Marine officer the other day; got round to the US Marines. He said their officers were highly intelligent, competent at what they do etc. but the soldiers themselves were really irritating to work with - as they haven't the faintest idea to think for themselves. He said the USMC was excellent at large-scale operations, blitzing in and breaking everything in sight, but for anything requiring finesse... eh, no.

Side note. Royal Marine Commando = a unit of absolute hard-cases, and they're not even the toughest we have...

[InsaneApache]

Side note. Royal Marine Commando = a unit of absolute hard-cases, and they're not even the toughest we have...

That is so true, they're are like common soldiery...in the RM...all Marines are trained as 'Commando'....the only unit in the British Army to maintain a commando unit in peacetime.

The difference between the UK forces and USA forces always boiled down to brittle morale. When it really comes down to it the USA just can't cut the mustard. Sorry my yank freinds but when it is the real deal...we just handle it better.

The truth will out :bow:

[Duke Malcolm]

That is so true, they're are like common soldiery...in the RM...all Marines are trained as 'Commando'....the only unit in the British Army to maintain a commando unit in peacetime.
ahem, the Royal Navy... The Commandant-General of Her Majesty's Royal Marines answers to the First Sea Lord and the Admiralty

[Somebody Else]

ahem, the Royal Navy... The Commandant-General of Her Majesty's Royal Marines answers to the First Sea Lord and the Admiralty

They speak funny too. Yomping? Heads? Galley? A wet? What's wrong with tabbing, loos, canteen and a brew?

Have to say though, anyone with a selection of whiskey as good as in their mess I went to, as well as their drinking ability, is deserving of respect. 4th largest collection in the UK, 2nd in Scotland;I had a good night. The next morning though...

[Papewaio]

Best selection of whiskey... so who was #1 to #3 in the UK... at least this one is quantifiable...

[Duke Malcolm]

Have to say though, anyone with a selection of whiskey as good as in their mess I went to, as well as their drinking ability, is deserving of respect. 4th largest collection in the UK, 2nd in Scotland;I had a good night. The next morning though...

I might just be compelled to become a Royal Naval Officer instead of a Cavalry Officer now... ~:cheers:

[Somebody Else]

Best selection of whiskey... so who was #1 to #3 in the UK... at least this one is quantifiable...

Afraid I don't know. I do know I was drinking 24 year old single malts at 1.50 a shot though.

Royal Marines : 99.99% need not apply. They never mentioned that that was alcohol content too...

[mercian billman]

I would put them up against an equal number of infantry marines. Of any unit.

The USMC has 24 infantry battalions I'm pretty sure that a few of them are capable of defeating The Black Watch.

Also something else you don't realize is that all 24 of the battalions are different from each other. When you consider each battalion has different SOPs, personnel makeup, and different leadership, there are some battalions that are better than others. For instance one battalion may be made up of brand new PVTs and PFCs while another may have a larger proportion of LCPLs who've all served one or two tours in Iraq or Afghanistan. The second battalion is obviously going to perform better, but within two years that battalion will be made up of mostly PVTs/PFCs, and the first will contain the larger proportion of LCPLs.

In the end it would come down to which battalion has more experienced and battle hardened personnel at the squad and platoon level.

[Templar Knight]

Dont forget weaponry, the M16 owns the SA80 ~:)

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

That was true, but as I understand it the new version of the SA80 is a perfectly fine weapon.

[Duke Malcolm]

The USMC has 24 infantry battalions I'm pretty sure that a few of them are capable of defeating The Black Watch.

Also something else you don't realize is that all 24 of the battalions are different from each other. When you consider each battalion has different SOPs, personnel makeup, and different leadership, there are some battalions that are better than others. For instance one battalion may be made up of brand new PVTs and PFCs while another may have a larger proportion of LCPLs who've all served one or two tours in Iraq or Afghanistan. The second battalion is obviously going to perform better, but within two years that battalion will be made up of mostly PVTs/PFCs, and the first will contain the larger proportion of LCPLs.

In the end it would come down to which battalion has more experienced and battle hardened personnel at the squad and platoon level.

Yes, a few of them together perhaps, but certainly not an equal number. The Regiments of the British Army are all different also. I have no idea what your abbreviations are, but the army regiments here have different backgrounds, traditions, honours, leadership, experience, nationality.

The men of the Black Watch have probably been fighting properly since they were about 10, when they go off into their respective groups and fight each other in substantial fights between the little areas of the city. The soldiers are not only battle-hardened, but have other experience.

[Templar Knight]

That was true, but as I understand it the new version of the SA80 is a perfectly fine weapon

Most of the problems have been solved, apart from the safety catch issue

[Somebody Else]

Dont forget weaponry, the M16 owns the SA80 ~:)

I'll assume that's in jest.

SA80A2 (which I'll get to play with next year) is remarkably good - doesn't jam, and is really rather accurate (they had to reformat the standard marksmanship tests, cos everyone was doing too well with it. That, and every SA80 in the British army has SUSAT as standard - barring those belonging to tankers etc.). Being shorter than the M16, it's more manoeuverable. Having a bayonet fixture also helps - something the latest M16 model doesn't have - they are still used... to rather good effect, most recently in Iraq - 5 to 1 odds, only 3 injuries...

Only problem is if you're a lefty.

[Duke Malcolm]

Are you in the Army, Somebody Else?

[Templar Knight]

some thoughts:


A FIREARMS expert has described as "pathetic" attempts to blame British troops for problems with the Army’s controversial SA80-A2 rifle.


"The SA80 has been beset with problems since its introduction and it’s clear even with the modifications that it is a less than perfect weapon," he said. "The fact that our special forces don’t use it says everything." Mr Yardley accepted that the SA80-A2 was extremely accurate but questioned its design, weight and balance which affected its handling ability.

Terry J Gander, editor of Jane’s Infantry Weapons, wrote on the group’s website that the "old problems" persist.

"It would appear that the only certain way to rectify the ... unreliability situation is to start again," he said.

[mercian billman]

Yes, a few of them together perhaps, but certainly not an equal number. The Regiments of the British Army are all different also. I have no idea what your abbreviations are, but the army regiments here have different backgrounds, traditions, honours, leadership, experience, nationality.

The men of the Black Watch have probably been fighting properly since they were about 10, when they go off into their respective groups and fight each other in substantial fights between the little areas of the city. The soldiers are not only battle-hardened, but have other experience.

Once again it all comes down to the quality of the Marine battalion. It's like comparing football teams, they use the same equipment, receive the same training, and have similar facilities. In the end it all comes down to personnel and leadership, keeping that in mind there are Marine Infantry battalions capable of defeating the Black Watch in equal number.

I'm not sure about fist fights between children, but the fist fights you got into when you were a kid don't mean much when your facing another man with a rifle. I might as well claim Marines are superior because we have martial arts training and we practice with bayonets in bootcamp.

I'm not trying to claim that Marines are superior to the Black Watch, because it's stupid. It's like arguing over SEALs vs SAS vs Spetznaz vs whatever Special Ops unit is better than the other. There really is no right answer because you don't know what would happen, until it actually happens.

[Somebody Else]

Are you in the Army, Somebody Else?

Nope. Just a glorified cadet. :knight:

Thinking of joining though, but haven't quite worked out what regiment. I'm thinking something interesting - Ghurkas maybe. Possibly a Guards regiment. Perhaps the Light Infantry. Now that I've seen them up close, the Royal Marines might be worth a look - but for their insane fitness etc. That green beret would be very cool though - perhaps army commandos, after all, the marines are part of the navy...

[Marcellus]

"The fact that our special forces don’t use it says everything."

I believe the only reason special forces don't use it is because it is too heavy for their particular requirements. For the average soldier it is fine (although I imagine a little on the heavier side of things).

[Proletariat]

Yeah, but Japan's sumo wrestlers would beat your countries sumo wrestlers. Obviously they have a superior army.

[Papewaio]

Well if you are going to use Sumo wrestlers then the US wins again... as one of the best in recent times was a Hawaiian.

[Franconicus]

USA all the way NC baby We could destroy everyone~:cool: espesically the marines. Other than the israelis are badass mothas
I guess that is the reason why the rest of the world relies trustfully on the American leadership!

[Franconicus]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.
:bow: wise words! :bow:

The question was: What is the best, not the biggest or most destructive?

So to me it is clear that the best army is the army that fulfills its job with minimum of resources spend.

So lets see:
The US? Rediculous overscaled. And hardly able to fulfill their job. Still struggling hard in Iraq and still could not catsch B.L.
China: Far to big. At least they fulfill their job: Defending the country and scaring Taiwan.

I really think that Tachikaze is right. Some smaller armies like Switzerland are doing a very good job.

The less you hear about an army in the new the better it is.

[miho]

The less you hear about an army in the new the better it is.
I agree on that one.
The Chinese will probably be the strongest in a while. They have the numbers and soon they'll have the technology.

[Ja'chyra]

I'll assume that's in jest.

SA80A2 (which I'll get to play with next year) is remarkably good - doesn't jam, and is really rather accurate (they had to reformat the standard marksmanship tests, cos everyone was doing too well with it. That, and every SA80 in the British army has SUSAT as standard - barring those belonging to tankers etc.). Being shorter than the M16, it's more manoeuverable. Having a bayonet fixture also helps - something the latest M16 model doesn't have - they are still used... to rather good effect, most recently in Iraq - 5 to 1 odds, only 3 injuries...

Only problem is if you're a lefty.

Not quite true, not every weapon has a SUSAT but that is the aspiration.

Also, in reliability the SA80 A2 outperforms the M16A2 by quite a margin.

[Ja'chyra]

Rubbish. It's simply the way the American System works that does not allow the Army do what it does best. You won't see the real potential of the US army unless you look at a real war. As someone above said, Occupation just ain't our forte. You want an example of our being superior? Read up on the first Gulf War. Saddam's army was not exactly considered sub-par until we laid the hurt on 'em.

Yeah, yeah, sure.. that was a coalition. But the air power that opened it, and the tanks that finished it, were american.

Oh right, so we didn't have any planes or tanks there then?

Stop being so arrogant.

No-one can deny that the US Army is by the richest and probably the most powerful but that doesn't mean they are the best at all they do.

[Lazul]

Isn't there an elite merc force of 10,000 troops in Forgotten Realms that would beat most other armies in that world. ~D ~:cheers:

hmm... nha I stand by my statement that the combined forces of Thay could crush any other faction on Toril. But only if the Red Wizards would stop fighting each other instead of the enemy.
Just remember that Thay has both Aznar Thrull and Szass Tam, hard to beat!

Am I a fantasy nerd... a true geek!?... yes... YES I AM! :charge:

*swosh* back to our world.

Would be intresting to see the US trying to occupy whole of Scandinavia, has to be really god damn anoying landscape to control. :bow:

[Franconicus]

Rubbish. It's simply the way the American System works that does not allow the Army do what it does best. You won't see the real potential of the US army unless you look at a real war. As someone above said, Occupation just ain't our forte. You want an example of our being superior? Read up on the first Gulf War. Saddam's army was not exactly considered sub-par until we laid the hurt on 'em.

Yeah, yeah, sure.. that was a coalition. But the air power that opened it, and the tanks that finished it, were american.
If the US army is built for a real war - then they are overscaled. Who is the enemy that scares you so much that you spend all your money on guns. - I think the Americans and their army have so many guns because the Americans love guns. And they feel a lot more safe if they have most of them ~;)
If the purpose of the army is to control conquered - or freed - countries well then it has some problems. Right? But maybe politicians are not good because they give the army a job it cannot fulfil.

Regarding the 1st Gulf war: Excellent job. But did you see the German invasion of France in 1940?~;)

[Redleg]

If the US army is built for a real war - then they are overscaled. Who is the enemy that scares you so much that you spend all your money on guns. - I think the Americans and their army have so many guns because the Americans love guns. And they feel a lot more safe if they have most of them ~;)
If the purpose of the army is to control conquered - or freed - countries well then it has some problems. Right? But maybe politicians are not good because they give the army a job it cannot fulfil.

Regarding the 1st Gulf war: Excellent job. But did you see the German invasion of France in 1940?~;)

So your just jealous is that it? ~:joker:

[Duke Malcolm]

...keeping that in mind there are Marine Infantry battalions capable of defeating the Black Watch in equal number.

I doubt it


I'm not sure about fist fights between children, but the fist fights you got into when you were a kid don't mean much when your facing another man with a rifle. I might as well claim Marines are superior because we have martial arts training and we practice with bayonets in bootcamp.


Who said anything about fist fights? These are generally knife (pocket, swiss, kitchen, switch, et al.), pole-arm (pipes, cricket bats, and other long and hard things), bottles or ranged weapon (sticks, stones, pellet guns, air rifles, bottles) fights.

[Franconicus]

Of course I am! I'd like to pay more taxis to see Germans fighting all over the world. Just like my grandfathers did!~D
Joke aside, Germans demonstrated military skills in the last century. I think it was enough to convince everybody that we are the greatest military bullheads in the world for at least another century. ~:cool:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Joke aside, Germans demonstrated military skills in the last century. I think it was enough to convince everybody that we are the greatest military bullheads in the world for at least another century


How by losing both wars? Its the US that has been the greatest military power for the last century not Germany. Our Military has never lost a war on the battlefield. Heck we helped beat you twice already. You would stand almost helpess before us today in a one on one fight.


I doubt it



Well that settles it. You seem to think all Marine battalions are the same and that none are elite. The Black Watch is certainly trained better than the average marine unit but not too all of them.

[DemonArchangel]

Not quite true, not every weapon has a SUSAT but that is the aspiration.

Also, in reliability the SA80 A2 outperforms the M16A2 by quite a margin.


Yes but there's one huge problem.

See here: http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html

You have to disassemble the entire gun in order to get ejection in different directions.

I know that disassembly in China's Type 95 assault rifles is fairly rapid as shown here (probably because they anticipated the reversal issue): [(No image, stupid copyrights)

However, I don't know how rapidly the SA-80A2 can be diassembled for use. I know it probably has more parts and more moving parts than the Type 95, so it would probably take longer, making it an impossibility in combat conditions.

[Somebody Else]

As I said before, the SA80 is only really problematic if you're a lefty. The way to deal with this in the British army is to... train everyone to shoot right-handed.

Though, I had a guy telling me about how his A1, when he was at his previous post, had had it's cocking handle filed down, and on a piece of string, so that he could pull it out and fire left-handed. Presumably the ejecting cases didn't worry him too much. Of course, he'd have been screwed had his rifle jammed on him - a nice hefty fine or something for damaging his rifle.

[DemonArchangel]

The string's kind of like taping magazines together. It's a stopgap measure. And it's kind of difficult to aim with casings smacking you in the face.

[Somebody Else]

As I said, the SOP is to fire right-handed. He clearly decided a few errant casings were worth firing with his familiar hand.

[Papewaio]

However, I don't know how rapidly the SA-80A2 can be diassembled for use. I know it probably has more parts and more moving parts than the Type 95, so it would probably take longer, making it an impossibility in combat conditions.

How many people have spontanesouly come to the conclusion in the middle of combat that they are in fact not right handed but instead left handed?

[Adrian II]

How many people have spontanesouly come to the conclusion in the middle of combat that they are in fact not right handed but instead left handed?At least one: Horatio Nelson. ~:cool:

[mercian billman]

I doubt it

Obviously your mind was made up before the discussion began.

I checked the Black Watch's website and discovered that it's actually an Armoured Infantry Battalion. Marine Infantry battalions simply do not have the same armor the Black Watch has, unless they've been augmented and even then they wouldn't have the numbers or the power of the Black Watch. Which really makes any comparison unfair, because the Black Watch is not really a infantry battalion.



Who said anything about fist fights? These are generally knife (pocket, swiss, kitchen, switch, et al.), pole-arm (pipes, cricket bats, and other long and hard things), bottles or ranged weapon (sticks, stones, pellet guns, air rifles, bottles) fights.

Once again it really doesn't matter. I know plenty of Marines who have gotten into the fights you described and pretty much every infantryman has gotten into a fight of some sort. Barfights, streetfights etc. really don't mean a whole lot and doesn't make someone a better infantryman.

[Somebody Else]

I'll match and raise your USMC with our Royal Marines.

[Tribesman]

As someone above said, Occupation just ain't our forte.
No point winning the battle if you cannot hold on to the battlefield~;)

I'll match and raise your USMC with our Royal Marines.
Neither is a match for the Irish Rangers , during their last operation they cleared the whole Cooley Peninsula in 3 days without a single casualty , not a single mountian goat escaped their expert snipers during the foot and mouth cull ~:cheers:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I'll match and raise your USMC with our Royal Marines.


Your just a we bit outnumbered and your totally lacking in aircraft . It would be a slaughter and you guys would be the ones on the recieving end. Again generally speaking Royal Marines are more specialised and better trained than your average US Marine. But their aint that many of them.

[Strike For The South]

with our Royal Marines.
Neither is a match for the Irish Rangers , during their last operation they cleared the whole Cooley Peninsula in 3 days without a single casualty , not a single mountian goat escaped their expert snipers during the foot and mouth cull ~:cheers:

only becuase they were promised beer

[bmolsson]

How by losing both wars? Its the US that has been the greatest military power for the last century not Germany. Our Military has never lost a war on the battlefield. Heck we helped beat you twice already. You would stand almost helpess before us today in a one on one fight.


Just to refresh you on history. When the Europeans invaded the Americas, you got beaten badly, actually you never succeeded to retake any of your soil and today your culture is European. So don't come with any bullshit on how superior Americans are...... ~:joker: ~D

[Franconicus]

Joke aside, Germans demonstrated military skills in the last century. I think it was enough to convince everybody that we are the greatest military bullheads in the world for at least another century
How by losing both wars? Its the US that has been the greatest military power for the last century not Germany. Our Military has never lost a war on the battlefield. Heck we helped beat you twice already. You would stand almost helpess before us today in a one on one fight.
Of course we lost both wars. We did not want to dominate other countries, just a fair military competition. When we finally saw that most of our opponents were knocked we stopped the fight.
By the way, the US always waited until the worst fighting was done.

Your military has never lost on the batlle field. ~D I do not want to disturb your national myths. - I know that you are a chess player. So you certainly know those club players who are unbeatable. If they loose, then it is because of bad light, a puff, smoke in the air .... ~;)

Fighting the US military is not on our agenda. This is not an olympic discipline. So why should we prepare to fight the US? Sounds foolish to me. I have no ambitions to have a bigger and more expensive army than the US. This award goes to you ~:joker:

[Ja'chyra]

Yes but there's one huge problem.

See here: http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/SA80.html

You have to disassemble the entire gun in order to get ejection in different directions.

I know that disassembly in China's Type 95 assault rifles is fairly rapid as shown here (probably because they anticipated the reversal issue): [(No image, stupid copyrights)

However, I don't know how rapidly the SA-80A2 can be diassembled for use. I know it probably has more parts and more moving parts than the Type 95, so it would probably take longer, making it an impossibility in combat conditions.

It's a right handed weapon, simple as that, anyone who fires it left handed risks blindness and a good kicking from his NCO's.

[Ianofsmeg16]

So, i think we're agreed, the best army cannot be answered with one answer, man to man with equal numbers the U.K would kick tail, groups of men together the U.S would win, closely follwed (and i mean close) by us limeys, in the numbers game, china would win, Special forces???
not sure but i think the isrealis or the U.K might have it there, actual weaponry? again not sure, but i think the U.S.....please coreect me if i'm wrong :)

[yesdachi]

So, i think we're agreed, the best army cannot be answered with one answer, man to man with equal numbers the U.K would kick tail, groups of men together the U.S would win, closely follwed (and i mean close) by us limeys, in the numbers game, china would win, Special forces???
not sure but i think the isrealis or the U.K might have it there, actual weaponry? again not sure, but i think the U.S.....please coreect me if i'm wrong :)
Sounds about right to me. ~:)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Just to refresh you on history. When the Europeans invaded the Americas, you got beaten badly, actually you never succeeded to retake any of your soil and today your culture is European

You never succeeded in invading the US. We sent your Mercenaries packing along with the british and you never took any land from us. And besides I thought according to Europe we have no culture. Of course jazz, blues and baseball are all european. I forget from what nation they were brought to this soil. America has ts own culture thank you and its a lot different than europes.

[Papewaio]

Bmolsson was referring to the American Indians... after all the Americans of now are just transplanted Europeans of olde. :bow:

[Tribesman]

Hows life on the Reservation Gawain ? opened any new Casinos lately~D ~D ~D
Nice one Bmolsson , someone was bound to walk into it~:cheers:

[DemonArchangel]

It's a right handed weapon, simple as that, anyone who fires it left handed risks blindness and a good kicking from his NCO's.

Again, not all corners are left handed corners.....

[Kaiser of Arabia]

:bow: wise words! :bow:

The question was: What is the best, not the biggest or most destructive?

So to me it is clear that the best army is the army that fulfills its job with minimum of resources spend.

So lets see:
The US? Rediculous overscaled. And hardly able to fulfill their job. Still struggling hard in Iraq and still could not catsch B.L.
China: Far to big. At least they fulfill their job: Defending the country and scaring Taiwan.

I really think that Tachikaze is right. Some smaller armies like Switzerland are doing a very good job.

The less you hear about an army in the new the better it is.
Switzerland, a nation of 8 million people, have about 300,000 men in their Army. That's 3% of their population, which is pretty large compared to alot of other nations (US has 1%, Canada has .3% aprrox).

Another major problem with the US military is not the military, it's the most idiotic commanders since Burnside. Also, the lack of will to send in the amount of men needed for a task also hurts us, majorly.

Occupation is not our forte by a long shot, but that's because we are overcautious when dealing with situations that may require a shoot first, ask questions later attitude. If Kofi Annan and the Gestap...er...UN weren't up our collective butt all the time maybe we'd stand a chance.


So, i think we're agreed, the best army cannot be answered with one answer, man to man with equal numbers the U.K would kick tail,
1 on 1 versus Irish civlians maybe.


Of course we lost both wars.
Due to insufficent manpower to fight England, the US, Russia, and (what was left of) France. Also, in regards to WWII, your leader (Adolf) had the military acumen of your average fly (though a fly could probably beat him), insufficient production capability (unable to produce enough of them Panzer Vs to deal with those damn Sherman Fireflys), and the fact that the troops in France, with the exception of the 2nd Panzer division (and a few others) weren't professional soldiers as much as conscripts and green, unexperienced garrison soldiers.

[Ja'chyra]

Again, not all corners are left handed corners.....

What's your point, ever tried to fire with your off hand? Not exactly accurate is it?

Once the right eye has been trained to dominance it'd be very hard to go back to the left. Therefore everyone is trained to shoot right handed.

Oh, and 83 modifications over 18 years, maybe but how many modification programmes has it gone through, could all the mods have been done in one or two steps? What about the M16, how many mods has that had? Or the SLR?

The claim your site made about not being able to sell them is wrong too, the decision was made not to sell them, yet.

[Franconicus]

Switzerland, a nation of 8 million people, have about 300,000 men in their Army. That's 3% of their population, which is pretty large compared to alot of other nations (US has 1%, Canada has .3% aprrox).
Didn't know that. Isn't the Suisse Army more like your national guard, having only few professionals? Do they really have 300,000 men in service? Then they have an army almost as big as Germany. Didn't Saddam have some 500,000?

Another major problem with the US military is not the military, it's the most idiotic commanders since Burnside. Also, the lack of will to send in the amount of men needed for a task also hurts us, majorly. Aren't commanders part of the military?

Occupation is not our forte by a long shot, but that's because we are overcautious when dealing with situations that may require a shoot first, ask questions later attitude. If Kofi Annan and the Gestap...er...UN weren't up our collective butt all the time maybe we'd stand a chance.

I did not mean that they intend to stay there for long. But the goals were to
beat Saddams army and get control, right? First goal was reached very fast but they are still working on the second. And maybe they have to stay for a while to reach it.
So my point was that the US army is not completly able to fulfil the job thatthe president (and the US people?) wants them to do.
Regarding the UN: I know we have different oppinions on that. But we discussed that before and don't see a reason to do it here again.

[Somebody Else]

1 on 1 versus Irish civlians maybe.

I know they're only Iraqis... but 5 to 1 odds? (http://www.calgaryhighlanders.com/argyllnews.htm)

Scots... mental.

[InsaneApache]

Whilst the USA has the advantage of technology and other armed forces have numerical superiority I repeat that the UK armed forces are the best in the World.

SAS, Paras, Guards Regiments, SBS, Gurkas, Royal Marines....reads like a list of hard guys to beat in any situation to me.

I liked the story about the Brits in Iraq teaching the US forces how to search a house.

Brit training Sergeant:Ok Hank show me what you do...

Hank the Yank:Well we approach freakin' the door, Blow the damned door off it's hinges, then we run in firing from the hip. That'll show 'em....

Brit: I see, has anyone ever thought about trying the door handle to see if it's open?

Yank: door handle?!?!? open!?!?...err.....???

hilarious ~:joker:

[Tribesman]

I know they're only Iraqis... but 5 to 1 odds?


well things have changed the current figure the British are putting out is 4 to 1 , but of course the reduction can be out down to the fact that the insurgents are amatuers rather than profesionals so uhhhh.. well at least the British give figures unlike uhhhhh...well..... certain others.
Side note , lesson from the Falklands which was passed on from Aden , Borneo , Malaysia , Korea , Italy , France , Germany .... a bayonet charge against a machine gun can lead to uneccesary casualties~;) But hey they give your widow a medal and put your name in the papers .
Take note King Malcolm in your quest to get your name in the history books ~:cheers:

[DemonArchangel]

Whilst the USA has the advantage of technology and other armed forces have numerical superiority I repeat that the UK armed forces are the best in the World.

SAS, Paras, Guards Regiments, SBS, Gurkas, Royal Marines....reads like a list of hard guys to beat in any situation to me.

I liked the story about the Brits in Iraq teaching the US forces how to search a house.

Brit training Sergeant:Ok Hank show me what you do...

Hank the Yank:Well we approach freakin' the door, Blow the damned door off it's hinges, then we run in firing from the hip. That'll show 'em....

Brit: I see, has anyone ever thought about trying the door handle to see if it's open?

Yank: door handle?!?!? open!?!?...err.....???

hilarious ~:joker:

You Brits do realize that most doors are booby trapped and that you enter a house by blowing holes in the walls right?

[Tribesman]

You Brits do realize that most doors are booby trapped and that you enter a house by blowing holes in the walls right?
Ah ....Paranoia at play , them damn Brits have been fighting terrorists/insurgents for centuries , I wonder how many booby trapped doors they have come up against .
Would it be most doors ?~D ~D ~D
Would it even be most suspect doors ?
If their experience has taught them anything it is that the door isn't the problem , it is probably the hedge at the back of the house that is booby trapped, or more commonly the hedge 2 miles down the road or the road itself .
Would you like to teach your grandmother how to suck eggs DA ?~:rolleyes:

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

tribesman:
you mean that the Irish don't instinctively attach bombs to their front doors?

Damn, there goes a great Irish joke I was planning.

[Tribesman]

you mean that the Irish don't instinctively attach bombs to their front doors?
Taffy , do the Welsh instinctively attatch fire bombs to English holiday homes front doors ?or do they throw them through the window~;)
Come home to a real fire , buy a holiday home in Wales~D ~D ~D
Damn , I am showing my age now , thats from back when they used to have such old fashioned things in Wales like coalmines and steelworks ~;)

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

nope, that would be the agents provocateur.

We do attach firebombs to our sheep though, keeps the Scots off them.

Edit: who needs coal mines and steel works when you can claim welfare?

[Ja'chyra]

nope, that would be the agents provocateur.

We do attach firebombs to our sheep though, keeps the Scots off them.

Edit: who needs coal mines and steel works when you can claim welfare?

So you can keep them for youeselves eh Taff?????

Tribesman

You're a very bitter person.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Damn right!!!

Flossy's mine you lecherous Jock you.

[Tribesman]

You're a very bitter person.
Only when in England or Wales , unless its the West country when I am a Scrumpy person , in Scotland I tend towards the Heavy which is a bitter or the heather ale which certainly isn't , but yes Bitter is the way to go though some milds or lights are nice but the browns tend to give a bad head , I do like the variety you have over there .
Back home it strictly Porter though ~:cheers:

oh since you obviously missed the point it is from an old comedy show featuring Griff Rhys-Jones . so definately anti Welsh:shrug:
Though the coalmines stuff is definately bitterly anti Thatcher/McGregor and you will find that bitterness spread very widely throughout your country for some strange reason~:cool:

[Tribesman]

Flossy's mine you lecherous Jock you.
I love my lovely Flossy ,
She has such a fluffy fleece ,
In the kitchen keep a woman ,
In the bedroom keep a sheep .

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Bmolsson was referring to the American Indians... after all the Americans of now are just transplanted Europeans of oldeBmolsson was referring to the American Indians... after all the Americans of now are just transplanted Europeans of olde

No kidding. And all americans of now are not just transplanted Europeans of olde. Far from it. Also the Indians werent the first one here,. Europeans were. In fact the French. Or so I hear.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Tribesman, sometimes you're a man after my own heart(the flossy ditty).


Although you'd probably need to be fluffier...


Edit: and say "bah bah bah" or "meh meh meh" (I'm not prejudiced when it comes to sheep)

[Tribesman]

Well I did try and fit in last month when I was over in Wales , I had my sheepskin and my wellies (funny aside , In one pub someone mentioned someone from another pub "you know the one who wears wellies" "what do you mean , they all wear wellies in the Dorralt") But I was fitting in quite nicely until one morning I had coco-pops for beakfast , they tried to burn me as a witch , he has turned the milk brown you see , thats witch craft is it , you are in league with beelzebub is it .

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

must be quite an excursion with the coco pops and everything.

I know you can't get them in Ireland because they upset the fairies.

And I know nobody in Ireland would dare upset the fairies.

You crazy papists you. :)

[Tribesman]

You crazy papists you.

Shhhh don't upset the Pope , he used to be a Nazi , but its OK now he wears Prada shoes ~;)

[InsaneApache]

LOL funny guys ...but talk about a thread hi-jack!!!!!!

Oh and the heavy in Scotland is atrocious, personally I only drink the whisky up in the hinterlands ~D

And leave that welsh tart alone ....bloody romans..~:cheers:

[VAE VICTUS]

The smallest army is the best army.

The winner is the one who spends the least on its military and more on its social health.

and then are run over by their neighbors who have been building their army for years...lol

:hide:

[Franconicus]

VV,
do not know where you live. But Germany is traditionally a very dangerous place, right in the middle of Europe. Nevertheless I do not have to fear any of our neighbors. Even if we would have no army at all, I doubt that the Austrians or Dutch would invade us. (Well, of course the Dutch do invade us every year, but we do the same to them, and to the Austrians, Italians, Spanish ...~;) ).

I think good diplomacy and being good neighbor is more important than strong military. In fact Germany had the biggest wars when it had the strongets armies.

So small army and a moderate 'my country first' policy, some common sense and humanity - that is all it takes.

[Brenus]

“You never succeeded in invading the US. We sent your Mercenaries packing along with the british and you never took any land from us.” I am a little bit late in the debate, but correct me if I am wrong: Wasn’t around 7000 French soldiers along side the 7500 American soldiers in Yorktown. Wasn’t the French fleet which defeated the British fleet? The American without the French Siege Artillery would have bib problem to take the town. And without the French fleet, they would have been unable to protect their main towns.~:)

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I'm going to have to add here that America and France weren't the only ones fighting in the war. Vermont was also at war, that's right the Republic of Vermont or whatever the state was called back then. Vermont was not only holding off New Yorkers and New Hampshirites who wanted these green hills, but Vermont soldiers were also instrumental in stoppingt Burgoyne's advance. In the battle of Bennington Green Mountain Boys led by Ethan Allen iirc reinforced Seth Green's New Hampshire militia who were desperately tryng to hold off Hessian cavalry who were out trying to steal supplies which were housed where the Bennington Monument is now.

The Battle of Bennington denied Burgoyne crucial supplies and along with less heated guerilla actions taken by Vermont militias his advance was slowed and his army drained of supplies. This led fairly directly to his defeat at Saratoga, which convinced the French that America was not a lost cause.

Bow down before Vermont, not a signatory of the Dec. of Independence or Constituion (Constitution might have been signed by VT when it entered the Union, but anyway) but savior of the Union nonetheless.~:cool:

Yeah it's a bit of a stretch, but not too much of one.


Wait what was the point of this post? Oh right, it was proving that it wasn't only the French who were instrumental in assisting America in its fight for independence.

EDIT: Yes VT is now a member of the Union, but at the time it was just a bunch of smelly mountain men and probably various Indian tribes in a contested territory.

[Abokasee]

the undead....nuff said

[Incongruous]

Spartans in RTW!

[AntiochusIII]

This entire topic swiftly comes to rest in its inevitable place of a discussion about who has the biggest d*ck. That gun side discussion is the only thing worth reading here.

Violence...does not solve everything in the world, unless you're watching End of Evangelion or Troy, two very different examples.

[Ice]

The United States of America I feel has the best army.



It's manufacturing capabilities coupled with numbers, advanced technology and nuclear capabilities.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/ranking.asp

[yesdachi]

Neat site. True but perhaps a little bias, I liked it. There are a lot of details if one clicks the country links.:bow:

[Fragony]

USA has the biggest army, but I think Israel has the best. They have perfected german Blitz tactics and have the most experience a soldier because of the ongoing conflict. But most european countries have well trained armies as well, Belgium and Austria probably have the best guns untill USA has perfected their OICW (which is really a modded german HK36)

[Telys]

All I know is that china has the largest navy.

[BigTex]

All I know is that china has the largest navy.

https://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e331/Thammure/coracles.jpg

China's blue water navy.:laugh4:

[BDC]

Best or most powerful? Or largest even.

[Ice]

All I know is that china has the largest navy.

Source? This site says otherwise.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/list_ships.asp

It appears we have 1866 total ships while China has 284.

[Justiciar]

I don't think there is a "best" army out there, tbh. Most armies are built on a similar model, though some are better equipped, others better trained, and others have countless troops to throw around. Personally I'd say the Chinese, but only because they scare the shit out of me. I've heard it said the the Israeli army is the best around.. can't seem to shoot properly though. :no: I'd like to say the British army is up there with the best forces around, but in all honesty.. it just isn't. I'd say that ultimately the influence of the state is the most important factor.

[KrooK]

Now - Israel
Their army keep fighing
When they have to practise something they attacks Palestina

[Telys]

Source? This site says otherwise.

http://www.globalfirepower.com/list_ships.asp

It appears we have 1866 total ships while China has 284.
I can't definetely tell you whos navy is bigger, I'm going off information thats like 5-10 years old. Still I refuse to believe that china releases accurate military information to anybody, so basically my question is who is global firepower's source?

[spmetla]

In a war with China the US wins no problem. The USAF and Navy would control the seas and skies over China. Stealth bombers can hit deep targets with ease and criple Chinese Infrastructure and Industry. The Chinese Army is large but I think dealing with China would be like Iraq in Desert Storm, bomb them until they are small enough for the army to deal with. The Chinese Army isn't capable of waging war if they have no heavy equipment, supplies, or lines of communication. The Chinese would lose all their ability to take the initiative in a fight. The best they could do is team up with North Korea and take the penisula and threaten Taiwan and Japan.

I don't think the US would even dare to occupy China, just get a military victory and go for peace.
Of course if/when the war goes nuclear boths sides would lose regardless of the fighting war's outcome.

As for the US vs Brit bit. I think I'd also go for the Brits on part of average soldier quality. The elite Forces and such are never comparable on either side so you need to stack up average Infantrymen, Tankers, and Artillerymen against each other and right now I think that the Brits train harder and get better base level soldiers. The US is softening up it's basic training too much because of recruiting failures. Also there seems to be a lack of seriousness that the US takes it's training with it all seems half assed, at least what I've seen. There's a trend of overrelying on technology. It's my personal believe that too many junior officer rely on their qualitative advantage instead of tactics.
And when it comes to dealing with insurgents I'd also give you guys the "gold" (there used to be tank olympics in canda!) because of your experiences after WWII in your former colonies and of course Ireland as well.

I'd put USAF Fighter pilots against RAF pilots any day though, more experience and still really good training. I'm not taking the technological advantage in account either. Do you Brits think the Eurofighter is really the right plane for you guys? If/when the Joint Strike Fighter ever finishes isn't it expect to outperform the Eurofighter?

As for armor, I realize the Leopard 2 tank is one of the best tanks out there but does it really stack up against the Challenger and Abrams. I thought the Chobham armor plus Depleted Uranium and other composites would make it be way to underarmoured for the MBT role. In all other aspects it's got the latest everthing though, curious as to how these three tanks' respective internal electronics compare. The various thermal sights, stabilation systems and so on.
The Leopard 2 is also yet to see combat right? I'm really curious to see how this tank fares seeing as it's being adopted by several countries over the Abrams (wonder if they just don't want to deal with DU armor).

Oh yeah, one of buddies used to be in the Berlin Brigade and he said that when ever they trained with the Brits you guys would "cheat" and use rubber bullets instead of blanks like it was supposedly agreed upon which would just lead to fights afterward. I myself wish the US would use rubber bullets more often but when training both sides need them.

[Husar]

The flu, it invades a whole lot of countries every year again and again...:juggle2:

[Atilius]

Of course if/when the war goes nuclear boths sides would lose regardless of the fighting war's outcome.

Not necessarily. This article (http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20060301faessay85204/keir-a-lieber-daryl-g-press/the-rise-of-u-s-nuclear-primacy.html) in the March/April issue of Foreign Affairs claims that the US has now or soon will achieve first strike capability against Russia and China.

[EDIT: Fix screwed-up URL]

[yesdachi]

Best Army, hummm... US? no, Isreal? no, China?, no, Mexico!Yep!

The Mexican army has managed to sneak 12 million operatives into the US and we haven’t been able to catch a single one of them. They have almost gained amnesty and I fear any day now they will reveal themselves as a crack military team bent on the destruction of the US “Remember Santa Anna!, Remember Santa Anna!”.

~D


To hear this message in Spanish press “1” now.

[VAE VICTUS]

since im an american ill say USA ALL THE WAY! but the dead, they are the mightiest army of all. or something. its late.:skull:

[AntiochusIII]

Best Army, hummm... US? no, Isreal? no, China?, no, Mexico!Yep!

The Mexican army has managed to sneak 12 million operatives into the US and we haven’t been able to catch a single one of them. They have almost gained amnesty and I fear any day now they will reveal themselves as a crack military team bent on the destruction of the US “Remember Santa Anna!, Remember Santa Anna!”.

~D


To hear this message in Spanish press “1” now.

...

1

This is America, now speak Spanish!

[Vladimir]

since im an american ill say USA ALL THE WAY! but the dead, they are the mightiest army of all. or something. its late.:skull:

How soon we forget. Yesterday we are preparing for the armies of the undead, now we look at the shiny little trinket we found on the street. THE ZOMBIES ARE COMING!