View Full Version : Max units (here's hoping I don't get flogged)
Is there a way to turn off maxiumim number of units able to be controlled in a battle? As in, you don't have to lose a unit to be able to use one of the reinforcements. I believe there is something like this in RTW. And while we're at it, any way to turn off maximum number of soldiers in an army? What's the point of limiting it to 1,920 (if there is an actual point, I'd like to know)?
*edit*
Remembered another question I might as well ask. The first TW game I played was Rome, and I just bought this a few days ago so I'm still getting used to some of the things. For example, in RTW you could retrain many units in one turn, but it seems you can only retrain one unit at a time in MTW. Is there any way to retrain more than one at a time?
Is there a way to turn off maxiumim number of units able to be controlled in a battle? As in, you don't have to lose a unit to be able to use one of the reinforcements. I believe there is something like this in RTW. And while we're at it, any way to turn off maximum number of soldiers in an army? What's the point of limiting it to 1,920 (if there is an actual point, I'd like to know)?
The answer to all three of your questions is no. There isn't a way to get unlimited soldiers to fight in R:TW either, but there is an option to allow reinfocing armies to approach the border of the battlefield without taking part in the battle (if this option is turned of you recieve a message saying that reinforcements are delayed).
The army limit is indeed annoying, but then you I use huge unit size and it never bothered me. Possible if you go spear- or peasant-heavy it might affect you, though. I am more of a cavalry-fan.
I am more of a cavalry-fan.
Cavalry rules:charge:
Also it would be confusing and over crowded to have more than 16 units at the battlefield at the same time. 16 is quite enough.
Can you have units with more than 200 in them?
At some point the game reaches the limits of what current computers can effectively handle. Maybe you've got some Alienware or Deep Blue sitting in your basement, but the game is designed for the regular folks and their computers.
Now RTW has 20 units instead of Medieval's 16, but I'm not so sure that the average player can handle any more than that. Everybody that I know says that the real trick to fighting battles is trying to control 16 units at once. Again, there's probably guys out there that can open a can of Red Bull by using telekinetic mind power and they might be able to control 25-30 units, but I can't.
In MP there can be eight armies with about 1000 guys each (4v4 normal) without creating lag when all eight gus have decent systems and good connections. But if it rains then the game seems to slow down. 4v4 on medium or large usually lag from what I've seen. So that tells me that 8000 is about the max for the current engine and technology.
But in SP you prolly aren't gonna see eight armies on the field. On Huge each side might have 2000 men on the field at any one time, so it seems like the game engine could handle more.
Finally, no you can only retrain one unit per province per turn. For me it makes combining units a better option.
ichi:bow:
Indeed, indeed. Thank you guys. And no, I have no super-computer, although I wish I did. Just my lil' ol' Dell, but MTW requirements are pretty easy to handle.
I have a few more questions if anyone would be willing to tolerate me ~:) .
Every time a province of mine gets invaded that has more than 2 armies, they automatically get re-arranged, ruining a lot of careful planning on my part. Is there any way to keep the armies as they are?
Also, on the battlefield itself, I find it difficult to keep units in line. I don't know if it's something I'm doing wrong or if it's intended, to simulate the fact that it's difficult to keep real armies in line. For example when I move a line of, say, 4 units of spearmen, they no longer stay in line, and just basically I can't get units where I want them, how I want them. So again, just wondering if that's how it's supposed to be or if I'm doing something wrong.
m52nickerson
11-21-2005, 03:44
To keep units in line use alt left click. This moves any units you have selected to the new location, but keeps them in the same formation.
As for the disorder with multiple stacks, you can cycle through your reinforcement before the battle. It would also be a good idea to pick up Viking Invasion expansion.
Weebeast
11-21-2005, 03:51
Every time a province of mine gets invaded that has more than 2 armies, they automatically get re-arranged, ruining a lot of careful planning on my part. Is there any way to keep the armies as they are?
There's an option for that. Untick the "tidy up army after battle" box on the slide-bar on the top and you all set.
About your second question, I'm not too sure what you're talking about.
[edit]
It seems like that I didn't get your first question clear either lol. You can use that little square button next to reinforcement button though. Just keep clicking til you get the units you desire.
Also, on the battlefield itself, I find it difficult to keep units in line. I don't know if it's something I'm doing wrong or if it's intended, to simulate the fact that it's difficult to keep real armies in line. For example when I move a line of, say, 4 units of spearmen, they no longer stay in line, and just basically I can't get units where I want them, how I want them. So again, just wondering if that's how it's supposed to be or if I'm doing something wrong.
m52 has the right suggestion, but I'll make you an offer. Come online sometime into the MTW or VI lobby and look for me, I'll show you some tricks to help control and manage.
Basically its too complicated for me to do in here, better on the field if you know what I mean. I'm usually on about 2300-2400 GMT weekdays (evenings in the western US)
Same goes for anybody in here. I also welcome anybody coming on and teaching me their tricks
ichi:bow:
To keep units in line use alt left click. This moves any units you have selected to the new location, but keeps them in the same formation.
As for the disorder with multiple stacks, you can cycle through your reinforcement before the battle. It would also be a good idea to pick up Viking Invasion expansion.
But doesn't that keep them facing the exact same way? What if they need to turn a little bit to another side? When I CTRL+Right Click to make them face a certain direction, they all start facing different. But thank you, it's better than having them all jumbled up. I do have Viking Invasion with the newest patch installed. Does it have improvements over past versions for this issue?
There's an option for that. Untick the "tidy up army after battle" box on the slide-bar on the top and you all set.
About your second question, I'm not too sure what you're talking about.
[edit]
It seems like that I didn't get your first question clear either lol. You can use that little square button next to reinforcement button though. Just keep clicking til you get the units you desire.
I'm not sure what slider-bar on top of what just yet, but I'll try and see once I start up the game now, thanks. That sounds like just what I'm looking for. I'm afraid I don't get what you mean in your edit? Is that for mixing and matching reinforcements before the battle begins?
*edit*
Alritey, got it, thanks!
m52 has the right suggestion, but I'll make you an offer. Come online sometime into the MTW or VI lobby and look for me, I'll show you some tricks to help control and manage.
Basically its too complicated for me to do in here, better on the field if you know what I mean. I'm usually on about 2300-2400 GMT weekdays (evenings in the western US)
Same goes for anybody in here. I also welcome anybody coming on and teaching me their tricks
ichi
Wow, thanks! That'd be excellent. I'm on pacific time too so, around what time shall I look for you (not too clear on the GMT)? More importantly, how shall I look for you (as I've never tried multiplayer with the game)? I suppose your screenname will be ichi and I'll just see it in the chatroom?... possibly that simple?
To keep your units in line, use the formation button, or the number keys ("1" for a simple line, which is good for spears or "4" for a sorted double line, if you´re combining spears and archers).
Ludens:
There isn't a way to get unlimited soldiers to fight in R:TW either, but there is an option to allow reinfocing armies to approach the border of the battlefield without taking part in the battle (if this option is turned of you recieve a message saying that reinforcements are delayed).
Sure? I mean, if you let the reinforcments be AI-controlled you can have quite a couple of units on the field, though not in your control. Or will the game stop allowing AI armies at some point?
Eternal Champion
11-21-2005, 15:50
Also, it's better to keep spears on hold formation, and hold position. If you don't have your spears on hold position they will shuffle around constantly trying to regain formation causing them to lose rank bonus. Most people that complain about spears breaking during a charge do not have their spears on hold, hold.
This also might be what you were talking about.
Wow, thanks! That'd be excellent. I'm on pacific time too so, around what time shall I look for you (not too clear on the GMT)? More importantly, how shall I look for you (as I've never tried multiplayer with the game)? I suppose your screenname will be ichi and I'll just see it in the chatroom?... possibly that simple?
Any time this week, as I'm taking some time off work. Usually in the evenings for sure, post a time and I'll try to make it. I live in Utah where we are one hour ahead of Cali (and fifty years behind :) ).
Online I use my clan tag, Hunter_ichi|CoH
Looking forward to it
ichi:bow:
One thing I neglected to mention earlier is that you'll need to download and install the latest patch, which for MTW is v1.1, available here at the Org downloads sections. Its free and easy to install, and is necessary for us to meet onlline and improves the SP game as well.
ichi:bow:
But doesn't that keep them facing the exact same way? What if they need to turn a little bit to another side? When I CTRL+Right Click to make them face a certain direction, they all start facing different.
Use ALT + right click to make groups face in a new direction. You can use the rotate command and then immediately give the ALT + left click movement command, and the group will rotate while marching to the new position.
antisocialmunky
11-21-2005, 22:11
I never order spears to attack. If hold position and hold formation are both on then they will sit there and act like a rock, not actually attacking even though engaged for a little while. They are good at defending and I use them that way, but that's just me.
The battle between polish and french knights and the mongol hoarde consisted of around 80000 combatants. MTW does not model such battles correctly. I think unit size should've been increased to at least 400 and allow the player to field as many units as are involved in the battle at once. The battle between the german polish versus the mongols at Legnica involved around 150000 combatants. Most major battles in the 100 years war involved between 10000 and 30000 soldiers and the saxon battle line at the battle of hastings had at least 8000 men in it's ranks, it was 10 ranks deep and every man stood shoulder to shoulder, with no spaces between.
Battles were slow and involved 2 armies facing each other and sending comparatively small groups to try and gain a strategic advantage at a time, but each army was capable of engaging any part of the enemy army they chose, not just the 1000 lined up at the front.
m52nickerson
11-21-2005, 23:06
The problem with battles that large is the fact there is not much stratagy to them. Yes small part would clash, but for the most part it was infantry in the center, with calvary on the flanks. What ever calvary would win against the other would them flank the enemy. The smaller number of units lets you come up with more stratagy in battle, and keeps the game fun.:poland:
ajaxfetish
11-22-2005, 01:37
I wouldn't so much say more strategy, as much as more manageable strategy. Strategy certainly wouldn't disappear if an army gets huge, but it requires lots of lower-level commanders to implement it. Leading a force of 10,000 or more troops divided into total-war size tactical units alone would probably require a genius with 8 arms and 4 computers, if not be just downright impossible. If the AI were equipped to manage larger chunks of an army for the player instead of just the men within a unit (and the computer had enough processing power to handle each of those tens of thousands of individuals) it would be possible, but the fun of the battles is maintaining some personal control and the current engine only allows that with up to about 1000 men.
Ajax
Hey ichi, I have VI 2.01 installed so I assume it won't work? Do you have it as well or should I re-install MTW to a different folder without it and the 1.1 patch?
*edit*
Another question I remembered. None of my ports seem to be making any money, except one or two making 20 florins, although I have 2 ships in every sea province(?). Do neutral ships blockade trade? In order to get sea trade going I have to make war with those neutral nations by taking out their ships?
Do you have trade goods in the port provinces? You can only make money by exporting stuff, so to connect Rome (the first province without resources to come to my mind) with Antioch doesn´t do you any good if you hold Rome and not Antioch. You can also only export to provinces of other factions, the "inside" trade of your empire doesn´t generate cash. You don´t need to be the only one who has ships in the sea areas, neutral ships don´t hinder trade, only hostile ones do. Oh, and you require trade buildings to trade.
Grey_Fox
11-22-2005, 13:25
VI 2.01 is good, it's all you need. I think Ichi might have believed that either you did not have the game or were on vanilla MTW.
Hey ichi, I have VI 2.01 installed so I assume it won't work? Do you have it as well or should I re-install MTW to a different folder without it and the 1.1 patch?
*edit*
Another question I remembered. None of my ports seem to be making any money, except one or two making 20 florins, although I have 2 ships in every sea province(?). Do neutral ships blockade trade? In order to get sea trade going I have to make war with those neutral nations by taking out their ships?
My bad, I thought you were playing vanilla MTW. If you got VI then v.2.01 is the patch for online play.
Neutral shps do not blockade trade. Hit V to see which sea regions are open (red is blockaded, green is good). Provinces make a lot more moneywhen they have a tradable good and an upgraded merchant building, those without tradable goods just get taxes on imports.
ichi:bow:
Cool, thanks guys. See ya on the battlefield! :charge:
Ludens:
Sure? I mean, if you let the reinforcments be AI-controlled you can have quite a couple of units on the field, though not in your control. Or will the game stop allowing AI armies at some point?
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I don't think there is a limit of allied armies on the battlefield. However, there is a switch called UNLIMITED_MEN_ON_BATTLEFIELD in preferences.txt, which decides whether reinforcements (armies lead by captains or reinforcements of player when he was wise enough not to let them be controled by the A.I.) appear on the edge on the battlefield ready to march in when you lose units, or you get a message "reinforcements are delayed" and they only appear later. I think that if is switch off, reinforcements will only appear when a significant part of the primary army (i.e. as much units as are in the reinforcing army) has been destroyed.
Is that what it does? Awesome, that's good to know.
antisocialmunky
11-27-2005, 03:29
Whgy the hell would you want to command 80,000/400 units? 200 is kind of a big number...
Well if they make a new game, they should simplify the programming so you can have armies the size they would have been in real life.
Alternatively you can mod units to be 1000 strong, but never play the battles yourself, or it crashes.
Well if they make a new game, they should simplify the programming so you can have armies the size they would have been in real life.
The problem is not programming, it's graphics and control. To render 80.000 men requires a supercomputer, even if they use M:TW level of detail. And anyway, such big armies would be uncontrollable: you would need to assign part of your army to the A.I. The ideal would be that the A.I. troops would follow your lead and assist you. In R:TW they implemented A.I. controlled reinforcements, but it wasn't quite the success they hoped for.
Just some thoughts...
What I'd like to see, and it's something that I think would make larger battles much easier from a player point of view, would be the ability to merge units. ie you have 6 100 man spear units, for your defensive line of battle you have to manually arange them since the auto-arrange feature leaves exploitable gaps. I'd like to see a function like group, except the units would then act as a single unit allowing seemless control of all 6 units. So your line would be 600 men in 5 ranks or whatever you chose. Also, stickied ranks would help a lot, just a toggle button that would force a unit into the selected ranks whenever it's moved.
The way I play at least, I play off of a static battleline that mainly takes care of itself while I concentrate on my cav etc etc. If the management of battleline components was made easier, I'd like to think I could handle larger battles than the 1000 or so we play at now, since really, I only play with 500 men at most, letting the rest take care of themselves unless intervention is needed.
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