View Full Version : Wow, King of Pop not too fond of Jews I guess...
Devastatin Dave
11-23-2005, 20:58
http://nydailynews.com/front/story/368275p-313343c.html
I was rather surprised by this, especially coming from a guy that is suppose to be an all inclussive guy, especially those between the ages of 11-14 years old with penises.~D
But I digress... I wonder how many "Jews" have helped him throughout his career? What a jerk...
No surprise really, he hangs around with a bunch of Nation of Islam types, some of whom have made clear their feelings about jewish people.
ichi:bow:
Devastatin Dave
11-23-2005, 21:20
No surprise really, he hangs around with a bunch of Nation of Islam types, some of whom have made clear their feelings about jewish people.
ichi:bow:
Good point. :bow:
Red Harvest
11-23-2005, 21:22
Should make him popular in his present environs. It's always amusing listening to some self indulgent fool blame others for his own wanton squandering of half a billion dollars of wealth.
Goofball
11-23-2005, 21:26
Just one more reason for me to not like the idiot.
Tribesman
11-23-2005, 21:52
Jackson, who relocated to Bahrain
I thought he would have joined up with Gary Glitter .:knuddel:
Devastatin Dave
11-23-2005, 21:56
Jackson, who relocated to Bahrain
I thought he would have joined up with Gary Glitter .:knuddel:
Those guys should tour together. I'd just hate to see the groupies...
Leet Eriksson
11-23-2005, 22:19
his brother is a member of NOI.
I thought NOI hated whites. but didn't know they hated jews.
Ah well, it doesn't matter, its rather unfortunate he relocated to Bahrain, not like we don't have a bad name already, but it keeps getting worse!
He tried going to dubai a couple of years ago, but they turned him back.
I'm tempted to make a foreskin joke, but I'm pretty sure we're all thinking it anyway.
Hurin_Rules
11-24-2005, 01:34
Baby, it don't matter if you're black or white... unless you're Jewish, in which case you suck.
[Edit: obviously, I'm being sarcastic here.]
Adrian II
11-24-2005, 13:21
One of the oldest ploys for the world's losers: blame the jews. I like some of his music. I loved Dirty Diana when it was released and I still like to hear it on the radio. But then I read Louis F. Céline as well... Sick minds can produce great art, literature and music. Make me happy and explain that phenomenon to me.
Wasn't it a private conversation, and aren't these two after his money technically? Just a frustrated conversation if you ask me, jews shouldn't be so sensitive about these kind of things.
Hurin_Rules
11-24-2005, 19:36
Wasn't it a private conversation, and aren't these two after his money technically? Just a frustrated conversation if you ask me, jews shouldn't be so sensitive about these kind of things.
Yeah, I mean, its not like millions of them have been gassed to death over similar allegations or anything, is it?
Adrian II
11-24-2005, 19:38
Yeah, I mean, its not like millions of them have been gassed to death over similar allegations or anything, is it?They're after his money technically, Fragony, not ethnically... ~:handball:
Idomeneas
11-24-2005, 21:29
Can i ask a question?
Why every point or rant or speach, sms, e-mail, fax, note against Jews is considered a blasphemy? Why among all nations of the world they only have this privilege? Is it because of the perceccutions since middle ages or the holocaust? Well guess what! tones of other people have faced those also but did not became a taboo!
Just to clarify (imagine the point that we came) im not some conservative freak, nazi, jew hater, ss trooper grandson and whatever else. I just dont understand this anymore!
I dont even like Jackson (im metalhead), but it was a private conversation reported by some guys with conflict of interests and he may ment some SPECIFIC jews. Its not secret that many are successfull in many making-lenting-investing businnesses.
I have nothing against or in favour of anybody but making a big issue about an sms? What if he was talking about Pakistani or Chinese or Eskimos? Would you all be THAT sensitive? Maybe we are all alittle brainwashed?
Tribesman
11-24-2005, 21:34
jews shouldn't be so sensitive about these kind of things.
Ah so you didn't get arrested at your attempted race riot then Frag , what happened was it too cold to go out ?
A.Saturnus
11-24-2005, 21:58
I have nothing against or in favour of anybody but making a big issue about an sms? What if he was talking about Pakistani or Chinese or Eskimos? Would you all be THAT sensitive? Maybe we are all alittle brainwashed?
Well, I can´t speak for all, but yes, I would be that sensitive about Innuit. I don´t know about you, but I don´t utter things like "the jews are after me" in privat conversations, no matter how frustrated I am. Note that there also have been seemingly anti-semitic incidents of him before. This is not a court, we don´t need legally valid proof that he´s a crazy freak.
Hurin_Rules
11-24-2005, 22:05
Idomeneas:
I understand your argument, and even agree to some extent with it, but I feel it is misguided here.
Certainly, people should be free to criticize the policies of the Israeli government, the actions of individual Jews, etc., without someone immediately raising the specter of the holocaust. Yet, to criticize the Jews themselves for being 'sensitive' to anti-Semitism is a bit callous. If your nation had been persecuted for millenia and more recently almost exterminated in gas chambers, you'd be a bit sensitive to racist statements against you as well. Of that, I have no doubt.
Nah, you guys are blowing this out of proportion. Is the entirety of the context present in the article? No. he could have been using 'the Jews' as a byterm for those two in particular. In any case, who the hell cares what Micheal Jackson thinks?!
Red Harvest
11-25-2005, 01:07
Considering it is a fairly standard stereotype used in the not so distant past to slaughter millions of innocent jews, I don't see that it is blown out of proportion. It is particularly interesting since MJ's foolish spending is the real problem, not their desire to be paid for services they performed at his request. If he can provide evidence than they defrauded him, then it would be a bit different. Otherwise, it looks like typical racist blame shifting attempt, playing off of old stereotypes.
Devastatin Dave
11-25-2005, 03:28
Considering it is a fairly standard stereotype used in the not so distant past to slaughter millions of innocent jews, I don't see that it is blown out of proportion. It is particularly interesting since MJ's foolish spending is the real problem, not their desire to be paid for services they performed at his request. If he can provide evidence than they defrauded him, then it would be a bit different. Otherwise, it looks like typical racist blame shifting attempt, playing off of old stereotypes.
Amen..
I find it strange that some of the same people that will have a hissy fit here on this board if someone says anything that links Islam remotely to terrorism but feel that what Jackson said is, pardon the pun, kosher or not a big deal. The guy used the word "Kike" in a song for goodness sakes. :bow:
Amen..
I find it strange that some of the same people that will have a hissy fit here on this board if someone says anything that links Islam remotely to terrorism but feel that what Jackson said is, pardon the pun, kosher or not a big deal. The guy used the word "Kike" in a song for goodness sakes. :bow:
Well its vogue for many to blame the jews for the worlds problems - many ethnic and nationalities (edit:) and religions have been doing it for centuries.
Kaiser of Arabia
11-25-2005, 04:00
Yeah, I mean, its not like millions of them have been gassed to death over similar allegations or anything, is it?
Other races have been genocided as well, but don't get all sensitive about it (Greeks, anyone?).
Point is, Jacko should be shot. Several Times. With Phosphorus coated ammunition. While hanging from a meathook. Upsidedown.
Crazed Rabbit
11-25-2005, 04:31
Am I right in presuming you wouldn't grant him many appeals Kaiser?
Crazed Rabbit
Kaiser of Arabia
11-25-2005, 06:11
Am I right in presuming you wouldn't grant him many appeals Kaiser?
Crazed Rabbit
Appeals require a trail ~:)
LeftEyeNine
11-25-2005, 15:41
Other races have been genocided as well, but don't get all sensitive about it (Greeks, anyone?).
Who has done it ?
(I'll guess the answer)
Well at least Jacko is safe from any sort of race-related genocides. He'll need his own catogory.
But being anti-Semitic is completely unacceptable. You can't just blame an entire race just because you managed to bugger up your own life despite staggeringly lucky beginnings.
Spetulhu
11-25-2005, 16:01
Well its vogue for many to blame the jews for the worlds problems - many ethnic and nationalities (edit:) and religions have been doing it for centuries.
It's also quite easy to be labeled a racist just for disagreeing with one. Almost any action can and will be explained away by mentioning the Holocaust.
As for Jackson, he's been spending money like a madman. I don't think anyone has had to conspire in order to get at his wealth. ~:rolleyes:
It's also quite easy to be labeled a racist just for disagreeing with one. Almost any action can and will be explained away by mentioning the Holocaust.
Yes indeed you are correct - the other in vogue thing is just this.
As for Jackson, he's been spending money like a madman. I don't think anyone has had to conspire in order to get at his wealth. ~:rolleyes:
Well he has been paying off certain mothers for the use of their children.
Geoffrey S
11-25-2005, 16:18
Other races have been genocided as well, but don't get all sensitive about it (Greeks, anyone?).
To paraphrase a quote from Broken Arrow: "I don't know what's scarier, actual genocide or that it happens so often there's actually a verb for it." ~;)
Kaiser of Arabia
11-25-2005, 18:37
Who has done it ?
(I'll guess the answer)
I was going to say Germans, but I would have been hit by a wave of "They deserved it" reactions.
We know the Turks killed the Greeks, we know they killed the Armeninans, we know they killed Alot of people.
They have *really* good food though.
LeftEyeNine
11-25-2005, 21:57
I'm tired... Racism everywhere..
If killing bothers you, how dare, as a German, can YOU talk about it ?
_Martyr_
11-25-2005, 22:28
Eh... Kaiser is an Italian American living in Florida last time I heard. The German sig and the Munich thing are just a demonstration of his fondness for all things autocratic and quasi-fascist. :bow:
LeftEyeNine
11-25-2005, 23:04
Whatever.. If so or else, he should keep off making pointless claims.
Idomeneas
11-25-2005, 23:49
Whatever.. If so or else, he should keep off making pointless claims.
Yeah ok we will rewrite history just for your sake dont worry...
some people.... jesus....
LeftEyeNine
11-26-2005, 00:07
Why do you never stop crying "We are massacred!". When was such history written ?
doc_bean
11-26-2005, 00:16
Who has done it ?
(I'll guess the answer)
Bah, back in the days, when we owned that little piece of hell known as Congo, my people killed a lot more people than yours ever did :knight:
I don't think any race/nation can claim to be completely innocent when it comes to taking care of other bothersome races/nationalities.
Idomeneas
11-26-2005, 00:23
Why do you never stop crying "We are massacred!". When was such history written ?
nobody is crying here mate. But history is history even if you dont like it. Now why dont you look the other way and say no more of this, so we can all have a calm night?
Red Harvest
11-26-2005, 00:40
Whatever.. If so or else, he should keep off making pointless claims.
You must be talking about the food. I found it quite good. ~;p
LeftEyeNine
11-26-2005, 01:42
You must be talking about the food. I found it quite good. ~;p
Ah yes. Despite that was a fact, he tried to have fun with that statement, that's why it is pointless as well.. You know, you bash upon something, flame off and then it is the last phase of a smart-mouth talk ending it with a sentence blended in sarcasm, truth and humiliation.. Not anything over my expectations indeed..
Red Harvest
11-26-2005, 01:53
Ah yes. Despite that was a fact, he tried to have fun with that statement, that's why it is pointless as well.. You know, you bash upon something, flame off and then it is the last phase of a smart-mouth talk ending it with a sentence blended in sarcasm, truth and humiliation.. Not anything over my expectations indeed..
Nah, when you refer to documented atrocities by Turkey as "pointless claims" you pretty much lose everyone except your Turkish audience.
hellenes
11-26-2005, 02:09
Nah, when you refer to documented atrocities by Turkey as "pointless claims" you pretty much lose everyone except your Turkish audience.
Its pretty much pointless to argue with the result of a TOTALITARIAN military JUNTA REGIME brainwash...
HEIL KEMAL!!!
Hellenes
LeftEyeNine
11-26-2005, 05:51
Shut the hell up your wicked mouth about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk talking in such a disgusting way. He was the one ordering his soldiers to pick up the Greek flag on the ground when he arrived in Izmir saying : "Every flag is holy, pick it up from there"
Nah, when you refer to documented atrocities by Turkey as "pointless claims" you pretty much lose everyone except your Turkish audience.
Document the Greek genocide, if any. They lost the final war and still cry about it. How far rationality does it involve to trying to cover your military failures with genocide claims? I understand your pain neutrally but you never seem to get over your medieval mentality.
You know what ? That age is over. That land is yours and this one is ours. Why do you still cry about that and hide after your lies?
Kaiser of Arabia
11-26-2005, 06:13
Eh... Kaiser is an Italian American living in Florida last time I heard. The German sig and the Munich thing are just a demonstration of his fondness for all things autocratic and quasi-fascist. :bow:
Italian-German-Irish-American living in Pennsylvania. :bow:
If killing bothers you, how dare, as a German, can YOU talk about it ?
And how dare you, as a Turk, the sole murderers of the entire Greek populations of Asia minor, a good deal of Armenian Christians, and also a major factior in the modern trouble of the Balkans, talk about me talking about rascism!
Let us see, your much esteemed nation killed:
100,000 to 300,000 Armenians
1.2 to 1.5 million Armenians in the 2nd Armenian Holocost
500,000–750,000 Assyrians
300,000 and 600,000 Pontian Greeks
Plus refugees from such acts and policies
War Deaths Refugees
1820-30 Greek War of Indep. 25,000 10,000 (setting out)
1827-29 Caucasian Wars Unknown 26,000 (surviving)
1854-56 Crimean Expulsion 75,000 300,000 (setting out)
1859-78 Caucasian Expulsion 400,000 1,200,000 (setting out)
1877-78 Bulgarian War 260,000 515,000 (setting out)
1877-78 Eastern War Unknown 70,000 (surviving)
1840-1878 Balkan Wars 1,450,000 410,000 (setting out)
1905 Caucasus Unknown --
1914-21 E. Anatolia 1,190,000 900,000 (internal)
1914-21 Caucasus 410,000 270,000 (setting out)
1914-22 W. Anatolia 1,250,000 480,000 (setting out) 1,200,000 (internal)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For a grand total of over 5 million, which also happens to be close to the accepted casualty figure of the holocost (Generally 5.2-6 million).
Also, whereas Germany has payed for their crimes in blood, what Turks have died because of these crimes?
I'm tired... Racism everywhere..
Starting in your own mind.
Why do you never stop crying "We are massacred!". When was such history written ?
Why don't the Jews? Or the Japanese after Hiroshima?
BECAUSE, IT HAPPENED, AND IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF HISTORY. Good job.
Nah, when you refer to documented atrocities by Turkey as "pointless claims" you pretty much lose everyone except your Turkish audience.
I wonder if he thinks its alright to deny if the Holocost ever happened.
Red Harvest
11-26-2005, 06:44
Document the Greek genocide, if any. They lost the final war and still cry about it. How far rationality does it involve to trying to cover your military failures with genocide claims? I understand your pain neutrally but you never seem to get over your medieval mentality.
You know what ? That age is over. That land is yours and this one is ours. Why do you still cry about that and hide after your lies?
What the hell are you ranting about? The only medieval mentality I'm seeing is yours.
Turkey has a long way to go as a nation if you are any indication.
LeftEyeNine
11-26-2005, 07:31
And how dare you, as a Turk, the sole murderers of the entire Greek populations of Asia minor, a good deal of Armenian Christians, and also a major factior in the modern trouble of the Balkans, talk about me talking about rascism!
Losers die. Is your TW games end statistics screen show it up "Men Genocided" instead of "Men Lost" ?
Armenians died there - not because they were Christians. You are acting like a heretic hunter.
Actually I was thinking of moving to Japan one day or UK maybe. May I cause troubles in the future over there? How could you relate that ? In fact, surprise me once and lay a base under your claims.
Start with this. Learn some untold.
http://www.armenianreality.com/
500,000–750,000 Assyrians
Ok, I was being serious about Wine Glasses Genocide..
300,000 and 600,000 Pontian Greeks
Ethniki Eteria and Pontus Rum Community were not working for the welfare of the Anatolian society. And also do these sources have the illness of multiplying numbers who represent the dead since the dead do not mind it at all ?
About Crimean Expulsion :
http://www.iccrimea.org/scholarly/jopohl.html
Ther are no entries about a genocide or massacre during Balkan Wars which do not cover any time before 1877 as you mentioned.
Greek Revolution times :
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wars19c.htm#GRev
No valid records about anything that can be labeled genocide in Caucasian War times.
In 1859 Russia has issues over Caucasia not Ottomans. And still no records of expulsion dictated by Ottomans
About Bulgarian War Times
http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wars19c.htm#Bu1876
Russo-Turkish War (Eastern War)
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Russo-Turkish_War%2C_1877-1878
No references towards any massacre
1914-21 E. Anatolia 1,190,000 900,000 (internal)
1914-21 Caucasus 410,000 270,000 (setting out)
1914-22 W. Anatolia 1,250,000 480,000 (setting out) 1,200,000 (internal)
Starting from 1919, it counts for the Independence War where our lands are invaded - where there is a war fought by a worn army with a couple of fronts obviously dismissing any possiblity to go for a systematic ethnic cleansing.
Why don't the Jews? Or the Japanese after Hiroshima?
BECAUSE, IT HAPPENED, AND IS AN IMPORTANT PART OF HISTORY. Good job.
"Good job" clarifies about where the racist ideas are thriving.
I wonder if he thinks its alright to deny if the Holocost ever happened.
I won't unless proved.
Better luck and harder work next time, boy. Do not stick up with Wikipedia all the time. I found the ONLY page you pasted right away after my first search.
LeftEyeNine
11-26-2005, 07:36
What the hell are you ranting about? The only medieval mentality I'm seeing is yours.
Still no documentative response
Turkey has a long way to go as a nation if you are any indication.
If you are capable of seeing yourself a measure for my country's progress, have fun with green and red LEDs. Think about the electricity bill though.
solypsist
11-26-2005, 07:55
okay, let's try again. thread reopened.
http://www.myfilehut.com/userfiles/29472/badmw.gif
Tachikaze
11-26-2005, 08:10
Since soly reopened this, I'd better write something before it says "locked" again.
The impression I got while reading the article was that Jackson's remark was in a private conversation that shouldn't have been made public. I don't care whether Michael Jackson is a racist or not. He is insignificant to me.
Strike For The South
11-26-2005, 08:12
Since soly reopened this, I'd better write something before it says "locked" again.
The impression I got while reading the article was that Jackson's remark was in a private conversation that shouldn't have been made public.
True and like Neon said its freaking Jacko lets put things into perspective here. He is insane~:handball:
InsaneApache
11-26-2005, 12:53
True and like Neon said its freaking Jacko lets put things into perspective here. He is insane~:handball:
HEY!!! do you mind...:knight: he's never been in the clan.~D
Strike For The South
11-26-2005, 14:08
he's never been in the clan.~D
Being in the Klan dosent make you insane it just makes you a bigot. Not to mention many people laugh at the klan now they have lost there edge
Tribesman
11-26-2005, 16:42
Not to mention many people laugh at the klan now they have lost there edge
I never realised he played with the klan before he joined U2 .
Back to Michelle Jackson , there are now complaints that he was using the ladies toilets in Dubai to adjust his make up . hmmm ..definately a confused individual .
Perhaps he was worried about a George Michael type incident .
InsaneApache
11-26-2005, 17:40
Being in the clan dosent make you insane it just makes you a bigot. Not to mention many people laugh at the klan now they have lost there edge
Now this, my friends, is a good example of how the English speaking peoples are divided by a common language. Also it shows that you can take nothing for granted on an internet international forum. SFTS is, I believe, referring to those neanderthals who run around wearing bedsheets and burning crosses. I, on the other hand, was refering to the Souls of Insanity clan.....a founder member of which am I. ~:cool:
Byzantine Prince
11-26-2005, 18:39
Shut the hell up your wicked mouth about Mustafa Kemal Ataturk talking in such a disgusting way. He was the one ordering his soldiers to pick up the Greek flag on the ground when he arrived in Izmir saying : "Every flag is holy, pick it up from there"
May I add it's precisely that kind of idiotic mentality that leads to genocides. Putting flags ahead of PEOPLE'S LIVES.
Since soly reopened this, I'd better write something before it says "locked" again.
The impression I got while reading the article was that Jackson's remark was in a private conversation that shouldn't have been made public. I don't care whether Michael Jackson is a racist or not. He is insignificant to me.
Regardless, having that sort of view in private is far more dangerous than having it in public. Having it in private might allow you to get into a position of respect and power then reveal it... Although probably not in Jacko's case. Unless America is stupid enough to elect him president. There's an outside chance I guess.
Strike For The South
11-26-2005, 18:45
Now this, my friends, is a good example of how the English speaking peoples are divided by a common language. Also it shows that you can take nothing for granted on an internet international forum. SFTS is, I believe, referring to those neanderthals who run around wearing bedsheets and burning crosses. I, on the other hand, was refering to the Souls of Insanity clan.....a founder member of which am I. ~:cool:
Really?~:joker:
Red Harvest
11-26-2005, 19:22
The impression I got while reading the article was that Jackson's remark was in a private conversation that shouldn't have been made public. I don't care whether Michael Jackson is a racist or not. He is insignificant to me.
It was a message he left on an answering machine. He knew it was being recorded. I don't see much private about that when he is having a public battle about such things.
_Martyr_
11-26-2005, 19:34
To be honest, I couldnt are less. The man is border line insane, with a string of child abuse allegations behind him. He is an unelected has-been pop star with so many personal problems I couldnt possibly begin to list them. He has had a bizzare life, arguably having been robbed of his childhood. Now dont get me wrong, anti-semitism is very serious, but not when the person in question is so clearly incapable of any sort of sane adult thought! Frankly, have we got nothing better to worry about, indeed, nothing better to get angry about than what this strange plastic shell of a man has to say? If there is any anger in me at all over this, it is that I have even heard about it, pretty ridiculous that the media has no real interest in actually informing us about real issues. It just sounds to me like someone in the press wants another Jacko headline. Dont indulge them.
Soulforged
11-26-2005, 20:48
To be honest, I couldnt are less. The man is border line insane, with a string of child abuse allegations behind him. He is an unelected has-been pop star with so many personal problems I couldnt possibly begin to list them. He has had a bizzare life, arguably having been robbed of his childhood. Now dont get me wrong, anti-semitism is very serious, but not when the person in question is so clearly incapable of any sort of sane adult thought! Frankly, have we got nothing better to worry about, indeed, nothing better to get angry about than what this strange plastic shell of a man has to say? If there is any anger in me at all over this, it is that I have even heard about it, pretty ridiculous that the media has no real interest in actually informing us about real issues. It just sounds to me like someone in the press wants another Jacko headline. Dont indulge them.
Let's not forget that every reaction has a cause. In this case it appears that Michael Jackson never had an enjoyable and what we could call normal life. He was a kind of Mozart. About child abuse, for what I know he was declared innocent, so I'll consider him innocent too.
Byzantine Prince
11-26-2005, 21:00
He was a kind of Mozart.
~:rolleyes:
Who cares about Jackson? The guy is a total joke. No talent except for some lame dance tricks, spare me.
solypsist
11-26-2005, 21:02
sorry dude, his personal tastes aside, Thriller was an excellent album.
~:rolleyes:
Who cares about Jackson? The guy is a total joke. No talent except for some lame dance tricks, spare me.
Soulforged
11-26-2005, 21:27
sorry dude, his personal tastes aside, Thriller was an excellent album.
Thriller was qualified as the best music video of all history. That aside I was refering to his fast paced life and his lack of enjoyament, and the allienation he suffered from the closest things an human should have at least in his infancy and during adolecence.
LeftEyeNine
11-26-2005, 22:21
If it is all about being a Pop Star, make sure no one will ever be able to replace MJ. Love it or not, pop is a fundamental of both music and culture.
What's more I think the one revealing such an SMS to public should be discussed. There is no difference in debating over MJ's own ideas (that he intentionally kept private) and anyone's own ideas here (that is kept private).
Celebrities should care about what they are saying, of course. They always address their words at public even though they do not intend to. However, his ideas were private at all and being this dismisses MJ to be accused about his ideas. 'Cause they were all private.
Being a Pop Star does not prevent you from having ideas about someone/something of course. If only that guy was not a jerk about revealing that..
P.S. I just checked the lyrics of "They Don't Care About Us" and the "Jew me" part several times has been mentioned as "Chew me" or "Do me".. "Jew me" may be intentional misinformation.
P.S.S. I do not defend anything about Holocaust. I wrote the words above omitting the issue. Because the essential thing about the matter is not MJ's thoughts, me thinks.
Yeah, I mean, its not like millions of them have been gassed to death over similar allegations or anything, is it?
What on earth does that have to do with it?
Adrian II
11-27-2005, 14:32
What on earth does that have to do with it?It has to do with the emotional charge of the issue.
It is no problem to call a Scotsman greedy; the supposed innate greed of their 'race' has never been used to exterminate millons of Scottish. In the case of the Jews, it has. Therefore in their case it is a grievous insult.
Another example. It is no problem to call a Belgian lazy or stupid; no nation has ever enslaved the Belgians on these grounds. In the case of blacks however, this is exactly what happened. Therefore in their case it is a grievous insult.
Louis VI the Fat
11-27-2005, 14:59
What's more I think the one revealing such an SMS to public should be discussed. There is no difference in debating over MJ's own ideas (that he intentionally kept private) and anyone's own ideas here (that is kept private).
Celebrities should care about what they are saying, of course. They always address their words at public even though they do not intend to. However, his ideas were private at all and being this dismisses MJ to be accused about his ideas. 'Cause they were all private.Yes, but his ideas usually revolve around other people's privates. ~:)
Idomeneas
11-27-2005, 15:54
It has to do with the emotional charge of the issue.
It is no problem to call a Scotsman greedy; the supposed innate greed of their 'race' has never been used to exterminate millons of Scottish. In the case of the Jews, it has. Therefore in their case it is a grievous insult.
Another example. It is no problem to call a Belgian lazy or stupid; no nation has ever enslaved the Belgians on these grounds. In the case of blacks however, this is exactly what happened. Therefore in their case it is a grievous insult.
I dont think that somebody has to be hunted down to make an insult valid. Many people here and all over europe think for example Americans as naive in the best case. Isnt it an insult? Do Americans have to be massacred first to have the right to feel insulted? I dont think so.
My question remains. Why Jews are the only people with ammunity? Why is it blasphemy for somebody even to imply something against them? Many other people have been massacred even to the point of extinction (indians anyone?) but never became discussion taboo. Im the first to say that racism is one of the worst things but we cant be selectively antiracists. Its for all or none. I never liked MJ but as individual he has the right to have his view about the world. If he was using his formal vast capitals to make a hard living for Jewish people. If he was funding nazi creaps or those KKK idiots with white sheets i would be tottaly agreeing that he is a racist, a danger to peace and quiet of society and public enemy and something must be done with him. But now the only thing he did was a genitive comment in SMS and few questionable lyrics.
So what? Even if he doesnt like Jews? Some people doesnt like Greeks, ok we dont like them back twice, what should we do force anybody to like us because we are the craddle of western civilization? Or throw the percecussions ace out of slieve?
And you know what? Im sure there are tones of nice jewish people but for sure there are some greedy ones or bad too. The difference is that when you call them on something bad they do you are automatically wrapped in a antisemitic-racist jacket and banned with easy from each descussion in the most demagogic way. I restate i have nothing against Jewish people or anybody as individuals but i do feel obliged to react to this brainwash of masses with further target the capitalization of human grief and death. I like fair play. I wonder what Jews as the economically best standing category of people who have known descrimination do to stand by other categories of people as Africans, indians (remained ones), south american indians, kurds, Armenians, gypsies, gays and many other? Does the racism thing stop only to them from their point of view?
I really wonder.
Adrian II
11-27-2005, 16:36
Many other people have been massacred even to the point of extinction (indians anyone?) but never became discussion taboo.Oh, but that is a huge taboo in American public opinion. In some circles Indians have been declared saints. Associating them with cruelty or laziness is certainly a grievous insult because those notions have been used as excuses to hunt, humiliate or even exterminate them.
]I am sure there are tons of nice jewish people but for sure there are some greedy ones or bad too.Sure, but if you call them 'kikes' and claim that as such they are after your money, that makes you an antisemite.
I wonder what Jews as the economically best standing category of people who have known descrimination do to stand by other categories of people as Africans, indians (remained ones), south american indians, kurds, Armenians, gypsies, gays and many other? Does the racism thing stop only to them from their point of view?If you really want to know (instead of asking rhetorical questions) you should brush up on your history. You will find that Jewish leaders and intellectuals have often been in the forefront of movements for democracy, social emancipation and civil rights. Look at the history of socialism, trade unions, human rights issues, you will find Jews all over the place working and struggling for the benefit of other minorities, social justice, civil rights. Many Jewish intellectuals for instance supported and joined the black civil rights movement in the United States in the 1950's and 1960's. In France Jewish intellecuals took up the cause of Algerian independence. Etcetera etcetera.
However, they did not do so as a people of course. That would suppose a kind of collective attitude and homogeneity among Jews that could not reasonably be expected from any people or nation. Jews are known to have their, um, differences over all sorts of issues, but the one thing they probably all agree on is that from now on they would rather want to be left alone.
Your notion that the Jews as a people, having been so horribly persecuted, should somehow support all minority causes in the world is absurd. Nobody expects anything of the sort from the long-persecuted Greeks, Armenians, Indians etcetera either, do they?
Idomeneas
11-27-2005, 16:52
Your notion that the Jews as a people, having been so horribly persecuted, should somehow support all minority causes in the world is absurd. Nobody expects anything of the sort from the long-persecuted Greeks, Armenians, Indians etcetera either, do they?
Yes but we dont go around whine all the time. And never capitalized on it.
As a matter of fact greeks as whole many times supported hunted down people and certainly did everything as society to protect Jews from been sent to death camps. A great example is the Bishop of Thessalonica who collaborated with state police officers and gave new identities to over a thousand Jews so they could pass as Greek.
Im sure many people that happened to be Jewish led various movements but what about those big and rich foundations which have as only cause to fund holocaust rememberance material?
Adrian II
11-27-2005, 18:43
Yes but we dont go around whine all the time. And never capitalized on it.I hope you are not suggesting that 'the Jews' are 'whining all the time' because such generalisations are in themselves antisemitic. Some Jews 'whine', sure. Others grieve or suffer in silence, still others get on with their lives as if nothing happened. In fact in the early decades of Israel's existence the Holocaust was not an issue at all, it was considered a horror of the past which the new generations of Israelis would forever put behind them.
As for the second point, Greek complaints about the early twentieth century Turkish oppression are almost constant, even on this board. There are countless Hellenic foundations and websites that capitalise on it. And the Greek government did occasionally capitalise on the episode too, for instance in its campaigns to keep Turkey out of the EU. In these campaigns the Greek envy of the Jews and Armenians, whose fate is better known and publicised, is often palpable. It is not a pretty sight to see representatives of victimised nations and religions vying for status and attention at the expense of other victimised nations.
Red Harvest
11-27-2005, 19:23
After reading LeftEyeNine's opinions, and other Turks comments on past atrocities, I can understand why folks are reluctant to admit them to the EU. :bow: I would be as well.
A.Saturnus
11-27-2005, 19:35
After reading LeftEyeNine's opinions, and other Turks comments on past atrocities, I can understand why folks are reluctant to admit them to the EU. :bow: I would be as well.
Just good we´re done with generalisations now...
Idomeneas
11-27-2005, 20:14
I hope you are not suggesting that 'the Jews' are 'whining all the time' because such generalisations are in themselves antisemitic. Some Jews 'whine', sure. Others grieve or suffer in silence, still others get on with their lives as if nothing happened. In fact in the early decades of Israel's existence the Holocaust was not an issue at all, it was considered a horror of the past which the new generations of Israelis would forever put behind them.
As for the second point, Greek complaints about the early twentieth century Turkish oppression are almost constant, even on this board. There are countless Hellenic foundations and websites that capitalise on it. And the Greek government did occasionally capitalise on the episode too, for instance in its campaigns to keep Turkey out of the EU. In these campaigns the Greek envy of the Jews and Armenians, whose fate is better known and publicised, is often palpable. It is not a pretty sight to see representatives of victimised nations and religions vying for status and attention at the expense of other victimised nations.
Well your second point couldnt be more wrong.
1 Greece is not making a campaign to keep Turkey out of EU. The contrary. The huge military funds for the size of our country and a constant threat of war and out of logic demands from Turkeys regime led the current anf former administrations that the best way to stop this situation is to put Turkey in EU. So in that ''contained'' and by force ''civilized'' enviroment Turkey will have to play by rules and stop creating problems all the time which cost us much money and effort. We are not rich country you know.
2 Indeed there are foundations but hardly capitalize on anything. Tell me one thing that Greece won by capitalizing one of the many Turkish percecussions. Do you really think that what im talking here is ''damn why they are so much more succesfull in capitalising than us?''. Hell no! And dont try to get the conversation there in such lame manner. What i reffer ti is that the whole media INCLUDING the greek ones give huge importance to what is recalled as antisemitic in a so unic way. Its not a whine contest you know. I just feel that there is a whole machine behind all this sensitivity. I cant call it propaganda cause holocaust did happened and all other persecussions also, so it has a very strong base but i can call it a situation pretty close to brainwash. That because this stereotyped behaviour has passed to non Jewish people as well. If you post here that all greeks are idiots all turks stupid and all eskimoes gay propably some people will say to you that its not right to say that. If you say ANYTHING about Jews they (not only jewish members) will jump on you, call you cryptonazi,fascist,racist,holocaust denyer and god knows what else. Doesnt this seems strange to anyone?!
An sms was enough to get MJ on publicity. Would this happen if he was talking about italians? No.
doc_bean
11-27-2005, 20:17
It is no problem to call a Belgian lazy or stupid; no nation has ever enslaved the Belgians on these grounds.
...:tomato:
We were the playball of pretty much any major power in Western Europe for 1500 years or so. If we appear lazy and stupid, it's because the tallest wheat gets cut first :bow:
LeftEyeNine
11-27-2005, 20:58
After reading LeftEyeNine's opinions, and other Turks comments on past atrocities, I can understand why folks are reluctant to admit them to the EU. :bow: I would be as well.
You'd surprised to see that more than half of the nation is more than "reluctant" to join EU.
Why do people forward EU stuff as if it is a trump card ? We're not dying for EU, it's the government
And Red Harvest, please act like a senior member. The topic has been closed and opened, and after all I replied in a rational way, you just could not give a documentative response for all you claim. And now you still try insulting. It's just so natural that you may not like me or my ideas, but this does not give you the right to touch the nerves all the time. Please show your seniorship and keep off. Though I'm a regular one, I'll do so.
LeftEyeNine
11-27-2005, 21:03
Louis IV The Fat,
C'mon even you have ideas about other's privates, it's all about these being publicized. It shouldn't have happened, and MJ can not be accused of this SMS reveal. The criticisation should start from an upper point, not on MJ's ideas themselves.
Red Harvest
11-27-2005, 21:09
And Red Harvest, please act like a senior member. The topic has been closed and opened, and after all I replied in a rational way, you just could not give a documentative response for all you claim. And now you still try insulting. It's just so natural that you may not like me or my ideas, but this does not give you the right to touch the nerves all the time. Please show your seniorship and keep off. Though I'm a regular one, I'll do so.
I don't have to document everything for the intentionally obtuse. I wasn't the one that originally commented on things, so I do not feel the need to document what someone else said.
You like playing stupid (as in "what atrocities?") and maligned in these threads. I don't feel sorry for you. I find your approach insulting to the collective intelligence of ORG patrons. I will express myself as such. I'm not a moderator, so I don't have to go out of my way to be nice to you when you take an indefensible position.
Red Harvest
11-27-2005, 21:15
Just good we´re done with generalisations now...
Considering it is a national/international issue, and debate about national sentiments based on their own expressions of them, it is not a generalization. I'm not seeing an actual debate among Turks on this, only uniform continued denial.
Nice strawman there...too bad he's not wearing pants.
LeftEyeNine
11-27-2005, 21:16
I don't have to document everything for the intentionally obtuse. I wasn't the one that originally commented on things, so I do not feel the need to document what someone else said.
Great, I replied the original claimer in a documentative way. I'd like you to make use of it as well
You like playing stupid (as in "what atrocities?") and maligned in these threads. I don't feel sorry for you. I find your approach insulting to the collective intelligence of ORG patrons. I will express myself as such. I'm not a moderator, so I don't have to go out of my way to be nice to you when you take an indefensible position.
You just keep on insulting and throw yourself into other patron's arms. It's just pathetic to attempt to find a collective support for your insults.
sorry dude, his personal tastes aside, Thriller was an excellent album. Yeah, Thriller, the album, is a pop music classic.
Ser Clegane
11-27-2005, 21:33
@Red Harvest & LEN:
Please keep the Turkey/genocide/EU discussion out of this thread.
I think one temporarily closed thread is sufficient.
If you would like to further debate this particular issue, please do so in a dedicated thread (and keep it civil).
Thanks :bow:
Ser Clegane
Byzantine Prince
11-27-2005, 21:41
I jsut think they are trying to get this pointless thread closed there Ser. ~;)
Red Harvest
11-27-2005, 21:45
@Red Harvest & LEN:
Please keep the Turkey/genocide/EU discussion out of this thread.
I think one temporarily closed thread is sufficient.
If you would like to further debate this particular issue, please do so in a dedicated thread (and keep it civil).
Thanks :bow:
Ser Clegane
I have no interest in debating it, since there is nothing to debate. It is the denial of it that I have commented on. Past that, I could care less what LEN does with himself. :knight:
Idomeneas
11-27-2005, 22:04
I jsut think they are trying to get this pointless thread closed there Ser. ~;)
nice to see you see our views as pointless BP. ~:cheers:
kiss Ser's feet some more he may even like you after~:)
LeftEyeNine
11-27-2005, 22:05
Agreed, I re-mentioned the issue because it was repeated
OK, I think that's your style, Red Harvest, you can not stand still and keep silent. Have fun.
Red Harvest
11-27-2005, 22:15
OK, I think that's your style, Red Harvest, you can not stand still and keep silent. Have fun.
No, I don't. People like you do, while atrocities are committed. ~;) Then deny them later. Have fun. ~:eek:
LeftEyeNine
11-27-2005, 22:47
Ser Clegane, I am over with this discussion. Please help me to inform about it to Red Harvest.
LeftEyeNine
11-27-2005, 22:50
*Same post as above. Deleted*
It has to do with the emotional charge of the issue.
.
It is what you make of it, this antisemitism whining is way out of control, as if we cannot wait to finnish the job. You read 'we are just worried', I read 'you are all savages'. I have never met a antisemit person, you? It is just a shutup tool that is used rather liberally.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.