Peasants -- can they be more than fodder? [Archive]

Seamus Fermanagh

11-26-2005, 23:44

Celt Centurion

11-27-2005, 00:13

How can you use peasant units in combat and make a useful contribution to the defense/attack strategy you're using?

...And no, I mean your standard garrison quality peasant, not the triple chevron all gold mega-peasant that pops up from time to time.

So ladies and gents, how do you use 'em?

My imagination for this is probably somewhat limited, but "if" I have them, I will let them dig the sapper tunnel, and push the towers to the wall. After the wall collapses, or the tower is in place, I "white flag" them to get them out of there, and send in real troops to take the walls.

I have never even seen peasants who were any good in a fight except the triple chevron/all gold ones that pop up when I get thrown out of a city.

Strength and Honor
Celt Centurion

Mouzafphaerre

11-27-2005, 00:28

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They are good to clean up routing enemy infantry. With missile support they can do well against rebels too.
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Red Harvest

11-27-2005, 01:08

Shoraro

11-27-2005, 03:26

I do remember one battle as the Greeks where I used a unit of peasants to successfully flank in a sally battle.

It was against low tech units obviously, but you can get some use out of them.

Geoffrey S

11-27-2005, 11:30

There was a rather large gladiator uprising in Spain at one point, and all I had were three modest units of Hastati, a unit of velites and four peasant units. I stuck one peasant unit behind an overextended line of Hastati and hid the rest of the peasants in some trees nearby. Once the gladiators were just about held by the Hastati and hurting them badly the peasants charged their flanks. Worked a treat.

So peasants can be used, but only really as backup or when in a superior position; even then they tend to rout.

Edit: and sometimes I use them to draw the attention of enemy archers and soak up the arrows, thereby sparing more important troops.

Kraxis

11-27-2005, 13:59

You can use them to back the line, or at the end of a line in a slightly "refused" position. This keeps them out of the fight while covering the flank and thereby providing some morale boost of your units (especially those at the end of the line.) This is dangerous on VH unless you have a good enough general/morale to keep the peasants from routing just standing there or if they are at all threatened.
That is about what I use them for... But I also let them engage enemies who are tired or already engaged. Those numbers will really tire the enemy out (you get tired of killing eventually), and they will strengthen the line for a vital period oftime until you can defeat te enemy in another part of the battle.

The one thing you musn't do is to let them stand in the line prior to contact. Engaging fresh enemy linetroops with Peasants is the perfect way to get a massrout very fast.

HarunTaiwan

11-27-2005, 15:22

Absorb enemy missile shots.

Red Harvest

11-27-2005, 18:17

Absorb enemy missile shots.
You can do that, but they will drop so rapidly that they are likely to rout...and that is not good for your army. It's a fairly costly diversion that has potential to produce a rout.

Seasoned Alcoholic

11-27-2005, 18:37

My imagination for this is probably somewhat limited, but "if" I have them, I will let them dig the sapper tunnel, and push the towers to the wall. After the wall collapses, or the tower is in place, I "white flag" them to get them out of there, and send in real troops to take the walls.

As you say, peasants are useful in sieges - it doesn't matter about their casualties when trying to take a section of wall with ladders or a siege tower. Just as long as enough survive to man the equipment ~D Also useful on rams and as you say sapping points - if saps collapse, then at least you haven't lost your backbone siege force.

However, you should use them to take the walls, once the siege equipment is in place. As long as you keep them well away from the defenders (totally avoid melee), you can have a unit or two of peasants run round the perimeter of the walls and take the remaining 3 gateways. This way, you can choose an entrance that suits you, and more importantly, the towers you have taken will fire inwards upon your foes - less to butcher when you reach the town square ~D

Look for unguarded sections of wall - you can always redeploy your siege equipment to confuse the AI. Take hold of 2 sections around where the enemy are positioned, and simply take the remaining perimeter.

Also, peasants are useful at bogging down enemy shock weapons like elephants and chariots. Casualties may be high, but at least you can temporarily halt an enemy assault, and then launch your own counterattack.

Viking

11-27-2005, 19:17

Heh. Today I won a siege battle with 5 units of peasants against 2 units of levy spearmen, 1 unit of camel riders and 1 unit of both mountain slingers and desert archers. It was a hard fight, but I had about 80 peseants left after the battle(playing on large).
My peasants had no experience, nor weapon/armor upgrades.

Edit- I was defensive, btw.

Upxl

11-27-2005, 19:30

I use them often to stand in the frontline.

When the enemy advances they stand their ground for a couple of secs.
It buy’s time for my skirmisher’s/archers to empty their missiles.

Alexanderofmacedon

11-27-2005, 21:44

I use them to stand behind my more experienced front line soldiers that are actual soldiers not peasantry. When the battle seems rough I charge them into the fray. Seems to add too much weight for enemies sometimes...

_Aetius_

11-27-2005, 21:48

They can be useful flankers if they have weapon upgrades and armour, I mean they can just tip the balance in your favour by killing a few wavering enemy troops leading to a general rout. I suppose keeping them in deep reserve until the enemy troops are exhausted and THEN flanking them might cause a rout, so they have a use but an extremely limited one.

Herakleitos

11-27-2005, 22:37

I use them to for migration purposes only. There is no place in my armies for them and neither do I deem them worthy to garrison my cities.

:bow:

Seamus Fermanagh

11-28-2005, 02:03

Interesting.

I have found them useful in city defense -- which is what prompted my query.

In a palisade defense, I once used them to attack a unit of archers that were flanking up another street. Since the archers were on the move, they were more or less straight into the hand-to-hand. Worked decently and actually killed at 5-4 ratio.

I also have used them in wall defense to absorb an attack by an enemy wall unit. They very quickly wanted to route, but were in f-t-t-d mode of course. Took the opponent bags of time to hack through them, and javelins/arrows from below worked well on the bunched up enemy units. Very weak when my real infantry went up to have at them.

I have yet to find a good siege assault mode for them, but the sap effort might be it. Have to try.

I do, eventually, phase them out of my garrisons as well, but they are useful for #s for law & order purposes while filling out a proper garrison that can actually defend. Even then, I might keep 1-2 around for the purposes listed above -- jobs which involve more dying than killing.

Oaty

11-28-2005, 02:05

Draw a line with your normal units, then take units from the center and place them back as a reserve. Now throw some peasants in that whole. Now when the A.I. gets close they will most likely assault your center. Better yet keep advancing while the A.I. assaults the center. Now the A.I. will be surrounded on 3 sides by decent troops and I'm sure you can figure out what to do from there.

Another good one is to put them in guard mode on the city streets. tiring the enemy until they hit your good troops.

Alexanderofmacedon

11-28-2005, 02:13

Oaty

11-28-2005, 02:57

Alexander, I'd agree with you but with no stacking penalties the A.I. will cheese you at the gate stacking all 20 units at you at one spot, wich makes it a 15 aecond battle once they breach the walls.

Productivity

11-28-2005, 04:00

I put a unit of arcani in them in multiplayer... nasty little surprise

Darius

11-28-2005, 08:40

Well one thing I've used them for from time to time when I somehow end up with them, most times on accident, is to use them for psychological warfare. That may sound weird but hear me out. What I do, is once I'm sure that all the enemy units are thoroughly engaged and wont be able to withdraw from combat, I move them behind the enemy. Now once they are there, they stay there, they dont attack, they dont run around, just stand there. By being there, they absolutely freak the heck out of the enemy for some reason, because apparently a disorganized group of people with sticks wearing ratty old clothes and what not are simply terrifying to have behind you. They may wipe their boogers on you or something. So the enemy are just like "0MGZ TEH PEASANTS, WE ARE D00MZ0RED!" and then start running around like idiots, and as they attempt to pass through the peasants the evil men with sticks then occasionaly wack a couple of them on the head as they run by but mostly just wondering why everyone thinks they're so scary, the boogers arent THAT big.

_Aetius_

11-28-2005, 12:58

Why do I always here of fighting inside cities. If I lose a town it's from the walls and no where else. I put every unit on the walls that are infantry and every cavalry blocking the gate...

Is it just me?~:confused:

I find the streets much easier to defend, the tight confines mean even low grade troops in good formation can hold much larger forces at bay whilst you use the streets to flank with cavalry or heavy infantry. If defending the walls looks a pointless exercise I withdraw once i've repelled the first wave to the gate and then the streets. The enemy gets crammed into them and you can cause huge casualties in the process.

Red Harvest

11-28-2005, 16:29

Why do I always here of fighting inside cities. If I lose a town it's from the walls and no where else. I put every unit on the walls that are infantry and every cavalry blocking the gate...

Is it just me?~:confused:
I almost never end up defending a siege anyway...I sally once each turn until I have beaten even a far larger enemy in detail. About the only time I'm defending a siege assault is with little wooden walled villages.

This is why I have not been interested in weakening missile shots by the defensive structures...they keep ME honest, rather than them being an impediment to the AI. The AI isn't really facing them.

Patricius

11-30-2005, 00:47

If I cannot afford a proper army I sometimes create an open box or rectangle - good units at the edges where attack is likely, and peasants inside. Provided there is a general, peasants can fight adequately enough if suppported. The ai Romans seem to have a habit of stacking peasants with first cohorts - which is not something I understand.

_Aetius_

11-30-2005, 01:36

Ive found peasants vital during my WRE campaign, without them i'd never and i mean NEVER of been able to hold the empire together, I have thousands of them in cities as garrisons to keep the peace.

Cras

11-30-2005, 11:43

I use them to keep the pease... or take a spot on the map where rebels seems to turn up every so often..

;-)

Vanya

12-01-2005, 00:53

GAH!

Vanya sez... pheasants are actually quite tasty--a delicacy, indeed!

So, eat them, over some fava beans and a nice Chianti!

GAH!

Mouzafphaerre

12-01-2005, 02:31

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Nice to see the father of GAH!™ active in these parts! :medievalcheers:
.

TinCow

12-02-2005, 11:23

I have used peasants successfully a few times, but the only area where I have had unusual success with them is when defending a city assault. A few times I've been unlucky enough to have a city garrison mainly composed of peasants assaulted by the enemy before I could get reinforcements there. Some of those times I have still won. In those cases, I always deploy in the town square. This negates morale for me and allows the mass numbers of the peasants to become more of a factor. If I'm lucky enough to have at least one other semi-decent unit in the city with them, I try to surround the incoming enemy in the square with the infantry and then hit them in the rear with the 'better' unit. Sometimes this works, sometimes I die to the last man. For an example, refer to the "Miracle of Thessalonica" in the BI PBM write-up in the Throne Room.

Nelson

12-02-2005, 19:11

My peasants only get garrison duty. They occasionally get to sortie and fight rebel peasants but never travel with the real armies.

AntiochusIII

12-03-2005, 23:19

Ah...peasants. Sure, they have their uses on the battlefield. Fodder, numbers, and all that.

But, unfortunately, that makes the game easier for me; therefore I do not use them.

For those who like to complain about a lack of challenge, why not stop using them?

Strategy map not a challenge? Too bad. Try not use peasants in cities. I don't garrison with peasants--keeping order thus becomes a challenge to me now: the upkeep for other units isn't cheap. Besides, I intend on creating a proud empire and not a one-generation feudal "conquered area" and the police surely needs to be more than just a bunch of thugs (as many lowly cases) and neighbors (ala the American Revolution "patriots") keeping "order" and support for me as the peasants seem to represent. They need to be at least a semi-professional force, or citizen armies (hoplites?).

And in battles, you receive more of a beating by enemy arrows and forces if you can't just pin them down with numbers from your peasant forces.

My only use for them is populating frontier cities since I always like to exterminate, let rebel, exterminate again, wipe out all buildings, and rebuild from the ashen ruins of Rome. By that time the population of those cities reach a record low in decades--a few smaller towns fell back to the 400 limit. Also, it lifts population/squalor pressure off my core cities.

LordKhaine

12-04-2005, 00:47

Well minefields weren't used till WW1.. so I don't see any proper use for them ~;). Other than abuse their shockingly cheap costs for keeping order in a city, and to move population between cities.

Celt Centurion

12-04-2005, 19:12

As you say, peasants are useful in sieges - it doesn't matter about their casualties when trying to take a section of wall with ladders or a siege tower. Just as long as enough survive to man the equipment ~D Also useful on rams and as you say sapping points - if saps collapse, then at least you haven't lost your backbone siege force.

However, you should use them to take the walls, once the siege equipment is in place. As long as you keep them well away from the defenders (totally avoid melee), you can have a unit or two of peasants run round the perimeter of the walls and take the remaining 3 gateways. This way, you can choose an entrance that suits you, and more importantly, the towers you have taken will fire inwards upon your foes - less to butcher when you reach the town square ~D

Look for unguarded sections of wall - you can always redeploy your siege equipment to confuse the AI. Take hold of 2 sections around where the enemy are positioned, and simply take the remaining perimeter.

Also, peasants are useful at bogging down enemy shock weapons like elephants and chariots. Casualties may be high, but at least you can temporarily halt an enemy assault, and then launch your own counterattack.

I had considered using them to run around the walls, but prefer to use light infantry who usually fare better if they run into some defenders. I may try that though.

Strength and honor

Celt Centurion