Beastly Royal Marines

[GonZ]

Have you seen this article (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4475034.stm) about the Royal Marines initiation ceremony?

Basically it's alcohol fueled naked brawling in the mud with plenty of brawling thrown in.

The BBC and most people I suppose are going to condemn what looks like abuse.

But maybe it's just a part of what makes a bunch of elite soldiers who have to know and trust each other in combat. It's called "Beasting" and I suppose assault troops have to be bonkers fearless killers - or they're toast.

Personally I think there's better ways. I wonder if troops in other countries have similar ceremonies or rights of passage.

What do you think? Freaky? Or essential?

[InsaneApache]

The fight appears to have been "directed" by two non-commissioned officers. One was dressed in a surgeon's outfit, the other dressed as a schoolgirl.

I think I just found my next sig. ~D

NOW will you Yanks believe WE have the best army!!! ROFLOL...hilarious stuff...good job they never caught us at Altcar barracks doing a lot worse than this...

[Strike For The South]

wow you guys have gay marines

[Ianofsmeg16]

The fight appears to have been "directed" by two non-commissioned officers. One was dressed in a surgeon's outfit, the other dressed as a schoolgirl.
*Comic book guy from the Simpsons* Best-Quote-Ever!

~:cheers:

[Red Harvest]

wow you guys have gay marines
Don't know about that, but when it comes to a fight those guys are really tough. Search the web for what a force of 22 Royal Marines alone did on South Georgia Island during the Falklands War. They took out one helicopter, and tore up the flagship forcing it to retreat.

[Ja'chyra]

No-one mention naked bar :hide:

[Tribesman]

The BBC and most people I suppose are going to condemn what looks like abuse.

The only abuse is that an NCO struck a marine under his command .

[Geoffrey S]

Bah, was about to start a topic on this when the board went down.

I don't quite know what to think of it. On the one hand personally I find it repulsive; on the other hand, it's obvious this kind of thing goes on regularly and has been allowed to continue and hasn't been deemed damaging by superior officers. As far as I'm concerned this is a matter for the army to decide internally, not the public, and will probably hinge on whether one of the naked marines was actually kicked unconscious by one of the NCOs.

[master of the puppets]

true, this is not a matter for puplic eyes, let it go over the radar cause it is essential, if you are weak or cowardly then you will quial in this 'brawl', and you will die in combat. "He who experiances pain grows to know pain, and in such forgets it ever hurt him" a spartan wrote that (not sure who) and who would know better of such affairs than the spartans.

[Kongamato]

Didn't a similar thing happen to a South African rugby team? Am I remembering this correctly?

[Somebody Else]

Did I hear... NAKED BAR!!!!!!!

And yeah, it's the army - they're trained to the edge of humanity. Of course they're going to play hard - but I'll eat my ToS if anyone involved in those sort of mess-antics fails to make the morning parade.

N.B. Of course, for allowing themselves to be caught at this - foolish. These things happen behind closed doors, yet another thing the public doesn't understand about the armed forces.

[Slyspy]

Yes but the Army is already regarded with suspiscion over allegations of bulling and/or murder of recruits at Deepcut. Although these guys were Marines not recruits this disclosure is of course going to get media time, especially if one of them was actually kicked unconcious. As someone has previously said this, if true, is the only real offence here.

Oops spelling was poor, cannot be bothered to adjust it.

[Tribesman]

true, this is not a matter for puplic eyes, let it go over the radar cause it is essential, if you are weak or cowardly then you will quial in this 'brawl', and you will die in combat.
No ,an army that breaks its own rules in peacetime training will break its own rules in combat , it is bad for discipline , bad for morale and bad for effectiveness and efficiency. Well according to the British army regulations and codes of conduct and I suppose they must know what they are talking about .~;p
They have rules and laws that cover just about everything you could possibly think of .
Plus of course in combat breaking the laws can lead to war crimes charges ~;)
Let the army do what it's gonna do, within it's own ranks.
Perhaps you didn't know , but soldiers are not only subject to civil law they are also subject to military law . The NCO appears to have broken both , on the plus side , as he is being investigated under military law his punishment may well be more severe .

So next time someone justifies torture by saying "they did worse to me in boot camp" think about it , if people in training are taught that the laws don't matter then don't be surprised when they are up on charges because they thought the law didn't matter .
So... to whom it may concern ~;) when your drill sargent hit you with a rifle butt was he breaking the military regulations ?
Because an army without regulations is just a rabble in uniform~D

[bmolsson]

Wierd... :huh:

[GonZ]

Tribesman. With all due respect this is not a case of turture.

These me are among the UK's finest assault troops. I suspect that the behaviour they're demonstrating in the video is shared with assault troops throughout time.

These are the first men to send in, and they should always be the first out. They are certainly not right for peacekeeping dutiues.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

And the point is? Let the army handle it within it's own ranks, as it all should be handled. No need for government to get envolved in things they don't and can't understand.

[Tribesman]

With all due respect this is not a case of turture.

I never said it was did I , but it is abuse and it is against regulations , and the British army (that is British taxpayers) has paid out £1 million compensation in similar cases over the past 5 years .
The reference to torture is directed at a poster who says that torture is nothing as he recieved worse treatment at basic training .
The Queens Regs state very clearly that the rules are to be followed at all times so there shall be no problems or confusion with personell adapting to different rules in combat than they follow in peacetime .

These me are among the UK's finest assault troops. I suspect that the behaviour they're demonstrating in the video is shared with assault troops throughout time.

Then how do you explain it being against the armys own rules and the fact that many distinguished serving and ex-marines today have said such behaviour has no place in the regiment and is a disgrace ?
If the marine was insubordinate or refusing a legal instruction then it is spelt out in great detail the steps to be taken , nowhere does it mention a kick in the head as one of those steps .

These are the first men to send in, and they should always be the first out.
BTW that is normally first in last out when talking about Marines .

They are certainly not right for peacekeeping dutiues.
Since peacekeeping may also be one of their duties then they have to be "right" for it don't they .

[Tribesman]

No need for government to get envolved in things they don't and can't understand.

Is the army above the government Capo ?
Only when it is the government , like in a military dictatorship .~:rolleyes:
Since a couple of the ex-marines I mentioned in the last post are in government do you think they understand at all ?
Actually , come to think of it wasn't Paddy Ashdown in 42 commando before he want into the SBS , I wonder when he will make a comment about something he cannot understand , then again he was one of those damn liberals when he was in Parliament~D ~D ~D

[master of the puppets]

you act as if this is some wanton brutality against unarmed innocents, and that it somehow undermines the strengh of the unit. marines are marines because they can give and take the punishment that would make civilians wet there pants. when you have lived threw a thousand tortures, what is one more? after a hundred war games then how different is the real thing? when you've been beaten bloody, knocked over, kicked, and brutalised then what is so bad about being shot?

i'm not saying it is not unlawful but in a strange way that we may never understand it cements them to one another and gives them a somehow intim,ate view of the pain they may suffer in battle.

oh and as a note the people who took the 5 million euros were obviosly to weak and are probably better off (for themselves and the army) not being in battle or disgracing there country while there.

[InsaneApache]

Gentlemen please get your facts straight. The Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy NOT the Army.

[Tribesman]

oh and as a note the people who took the 5 million euros were obviosly to weak and are probably better off (for themselves and the army) not being in battle or disgracing there country while there.~:rolleyes:
Yes obviously very weak and unsuitable or battle , being sodomized with a broom handle really makes a man of you and certainly prepares you for battle ???????
Oh and its pounds by the way , the people across the water havn't adapted to euros yet in their compensation payouts .

when you have lived threw a thousand tortures, what is one more?
hmmmm , I wonder if he guards at Abu-gharib thought that way~;p

[Idaho]

Looks like good fun to me. The sort of thing I do at the weekends ;)

Don't really know what to make of it. It comes on the back of recruits 'committing suicide' at a particular army base. Many of those recruits shooting themselves in the head several times :confused:

However there is something to be said for the ability to fight naked. If you can fight naked then you can fight anytime.

[littlelostboy]

I don't think its a terrible thing that two soldiers fight that brutally. The point is, I think it makes them build up their mental strenght because when you become a PoW, the enemy don't give a damn about you, they'll brutalize and humiliate you in every possible way. Unless the guy died in the process, then it is a different matter, but hell, he's just unconsioucs. I don't think that is something different for a marine like him. These guys are suppose to be tough physically and mentally.

In my country, the commandos are put through a brutal PoW training. One consist of plugging your nose holes and ears and then pouring a bucket of red ants over you while you have to endure the bites of the ants. But a ritual thingy? I don't think my army have it cause if they do, the public will come down on them hard, considering that most soldiers are civilians, not professionals.

[English assassin]

Its not that different to what the paras do as part of selection, where they get in a ring with some overweight boxing gloves on and have to beat the proverbial out of each other (they aren't allowed even to take a guard or step back) I think its called milling or something like that.

You do have to ask if we want marines who want to fight, or marines who don't want to fight. Me, I'm glad they want to fight.

I mean, come on RM basic training is notoriously about the toughest in the world (please no posts about how the Kerguelen Island marines are much tougher and teh pwn the RM, etc, I only said "about"). If at the start you said the worst thing that would happen would be you would have to run around a field naked drinking beer, and then fight a fellow marine in a mud pit with kip mats wrapped round your arms, I reckon most recruits would be very happy.

[Prodigal]

Gentlemen please get your facts straight. The Royal Marines are part of the Royal Navy NOT the Army.
One lot has boats right?

Dunno what all the fuss is about, if anybody doesn't like it they can always get out, if they'd been conscripted it maybe a different story.

Only thing that was a bit off was the fact the NCO smacked the bloke while he was on his knees.

[Geoffrey S]

I mean, come on RM basic training is notoriously about the toughest in the world (please no posts about how the Kerguelen Island marines are much tougher and teh pwn the RM, etc, I only said "about"). If at the start you said the worst thing that would happen would be you would have to run around a field naked drinking beer, and then fight a fellow marine in a mud pit with kip mats wrapped round your arms, I reckon most recruits would be very happy.
True. I think most agree on that, but as I said earlier the main point here is whether one of the marines was actually kicked unconscious whilst laying on the ground by the NCO.

Why one NCO decided to wear a schoolgirl's outfit is beyond me, though. ~:confused:

[Red Harvest]

Why one NCO decided to wear a schoolgirl's outfit is beyond me, though. ~:confused:
You ever seen the pics from a shellback ceremony?

I would be surprised if someone *wasn't* in "drag" for these sorts of things.

[Upxl]

Man,...

They should put these guys into the next TW

Urban barracks style ^^

[Tribesman]

Unless the guy died in the process, then it is a different matter, but hell, he's just unconsioucs. I don't think that is something different for a marine like him. These guys are suppose to be tough physically and mentally.

Well Idaho already mentioned the 4 suspicious deaths at Deepcut (how exactly do you commit suicide by multiple shots from different angles some of which not even a circus contortionist would be able to achieve ?) , why not mention the 26 at Catterick while we are at it ? And how many at BAoR bases ?
Still at least we have the latest spin from the MoD on it , its all to do with cutbacks you see , there are not enough senior NCOs and officers to be supervising , and the junior NCOs are obviously so stupid that they cannot read or understand Army regulations ~:rolleyes:

[BDC]

Mostly with shots to the head from an angle they couldn't possibly have fired it from. It was some other suspicious stuff going on, but I doubt it was related to this. This is hardly a secret in any case, everyone knows this sort of stuff goes on in the armed forces. Part of the bonding...