Fighting hordes

[Franconicus]

The bad things of hordes is that they are suddenly there, that they are very large in numbers and that you never can tell what they are going to do.

Of course you can protect your towns (stonewalls and archers will do the job). But it is hard to attack them.

My idea was if it is possible to kill just their leaders. Some assassines and one strong army with a night fighting general may be enough to do the job.:knight:

Has somebody ever tried to do this?

[Mouzafphaerre]

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The "chance" system of assasins/spies is still a joke (since MTW). They will succeed with 14% but fail with 97%. Btw, I noticed that you always fail with a 93% chance; might be a bug?

Anyway... Might be feasible yet boring. ~;p Better decimate their foot units in sieges and have them move on to the next enemy.
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[Shadow]

For me, I wait at a river choking point for the horde to come and then destory the whole lot of them as they throw themselves at me. ~D

[_Aetius_]

Hordes tend to have massive numbers of light cavalry units and horse archers, therefore large numbers of archers in your army will largely negate them IF they are protected by good solid infantry and capable cavalry, the Eastern empire is a good position to achieve this.

Also hordes i've seen tend to spread out abit, if you can isolate one horde army at a time, you can destroy them in detail or atleast remove a large part of the threat. Of course its preferrable to be in defensive battles against horse archer armies than in attack otherwise you'll suffer enormous casualties.

Anyway the best way is to bleed them dry in a siege, a few archer units and decent infantry units can hold off a massive army causing insanely high casualties to the horde and stripping them of their best units.

[DensterNY]

You're right about stripping down the Horde if they lay seige. Fortunately, or unfortunately, the AI sucks massively in a siege situation and you sally forth inflict damage with archers and heavy cavalry then go back inside which also resets the surrender timer.

[Slicendice]

I think the hordes are pretty lame. The only really impressive unit I saw was the Sarmation Warlord Cavalry. Those guys can fight. When I took the Sarmation city I killed all he had and then that warlord came at me. 37 of his guys killed and or routed 300 of mine. Including my general and my scholatae (sp) heavy cav.

Generally I just put some peasant in a fort on the enemy side of river crossings. They rarely attack and if they do they abandon it and stay on their side of the river. I just throw some more peasants into the fort and start over. This works so well that I don't even have anyone defending Constantinople except a 1 general.

Honestly I found this expansion very disappointing. The campaigns are easy to complete. In fact WRE is a paper tiger. I rolled into Northern Italy after they blockaded one of my ports and pwned them. (why do allies blockade ports? just stupid if you asked me)

Like the previous poster said just wait at the river. You can hold it with limitae and archers and some equites auxilia to boos the body count. They always route when you surround them just after they cross the river.

If the hordes actually tried to acheive thair objectives then that would be different. But for the most part I see them just milling about sacking the same cities over and over. It's really silly if you asked me.

[_Aetius_]

Actually ive seen hordes go straight for their objectives. The game feels much more random as there are so many factions on the move so its changes everytime what happens sometimes making it very hard for hordes to directly aim for their targets. However generally i've seen hordes purposefully migrating to far away lands, when they could simply have made the short trip over to Asia Minor and made a ton of money.

Example. I was the ERE and the Vandals became a horde and invaded the Balkans, they then vanished I assumed they had simply recrossed the Danube, however I discovered later they had invaded and sacked a couple of cities in Italy before settling in North western Gaul of all places and were clearly sending troops down into Spain like they should do. With the ever increasing number of hordes moving west it was a matter of time before the Vandals would have to move again, Spain being a likely target. :charge:

The fact they travelled half way across the map to reach Gaul shows the horde is at the very least and interesting addition to the mix.

As the WRE its very hard to stop hordes, especially since there is often so many of them, your unlikely to be very rich so covering all of the river crossings with forts is an expense that I was certainly unwilling/unable to make. 500d for one fort when I was often struggling to keep the economy out of the red and desperately retraining troops to just hold onto power. :duel:

Once they have breached the frontiers its extremely troublesome, first of all tracking the path of the hordes and secondly rally an army to stop them. IMO the hordes have worked out rather well, atleast it keeps the player active especially if you go either of the Roman factions the constant stream of invasion makes it far more exciting than RTW was.

[Vlad Tzepes]

Generally I just put some peasant in a fort on the enemy side of river crossings. They rarely attack and if they do they abandon it and stay on their side of the river. I just throw some more peasants into the fort and start over. This works so well that I don't even have anyone defending Constantinople except a 1 general.


Wow, didn't know that! Unfortunately, sounds like not-so-clever AI again...

My experience with hordes, both as ERE and WRE, was that if I can occupy a bridge somwhere on their invasion way, they will wear down simply attacking again and again.

At some point, playing as ERE, it got really boring, because the Huns, Vandals, Goths and Sarmatians at the same time were repeatedly attacking during the same computer turn my one and only stack positioned on that bridge. I set archers on flanks to flame arrows, had a couple of comitanenses to hold the centre, limitanei in rest, all hand units on fire at will, and 4 units of cavalry, to destroy routers. Oh, and a priest unit - I'm not sure if it had any effect, but my troops had some music to enjoy during the slaughter, anyway. Minimal losses everytime on my side, massive butchering on theirs...

With WRE it was even easier when using 2 units of repeating ballistae - the casualties those 2 artillery pieces inflicted were huge and somehow unrealistic (like 150-180 kills in one battle each), and that made their experience skyrocket (reached gold after 5-6 battles).

Anyway, strange thing with cavalry ordered to cross the river to chase routers: it seems they desperately need a bath, because 8 times out of 10, even though the bridge is clear, ordering them to just cross makes them go aquatic.

Oh, and I had at least one unit of archers drown when they got exhausted in water...

[Alexanderofmacedon]

The point is to back yourself into a corner and not let them out manouvre. If you let them attack you then you will win with better troops

[teja]

I did never fought a Horde leading a Roman fraction, because I want to use the other side. Sooner or later also my Vandals setteled down, while enemy Hordes came closer.

I am using assassins to kill new, easy generals of Horde fractions. This is only useful when they are far away and leading very small armies. Otherwise it is useless as explained above.

Defending bridges and rivers are the best way to fight any Horde army as mentioned above too. The Hordes are usually made by mounted archers and light cavalry. Their infantry always sucks, which gives spearmen a good opportunity to kill masses of those men. Horde units are always weaker but the same unit recruited in a city! I think fighting in such a position gives you the best chance to beat a Horde down.

The more unusual way is to scare them away. I found it posted elsewhere here at the board and used it by myself with success. Hordes do not want to enter areas with big army stacks, no matter how good the forces are in this stack. They almost look for numbers only. Big armies made by cheap peasants will do the job. Move them close to the borders where you expect enemy Hordes and show yourself. In very most cases they will turn and fight elsewhere and loose their men. This way they will weak themselves while you are able to improve your forces. However, some times the Horde will come in anyway. Make sure to have real forces and the capacity to form an army able to stand them.

At the battlefield you will have to handle with masses of mounted archers. They are in skirmish mode. When they harm yourself too much, use your cavalry to force them away. Light cavalry will suffer immense losses this way, so better use units you do not need. The archers will be able to kill light cavalry or made the rout! If you use heavy armoured cavalry you have more chances to avoid big losses, but never ever a chance to engage the fast archers. If you need to force away the enemy mounted archers, cavalry will do the job – at significant losses. Meanwhile you can smash other enemy forces at the battlefield, while some mounted archers are busy with your cavalry.
As mentioned above foot archers are great to kill a lot of enemy riders. Make sure you have good spearmen behind when they assault your archers.
Using mounted archers for your own rocks the house! One unit firing in skirmish mode at the enemy, while another one rushes forward to engage in a hand to hand battle. Then switch the order between your two units with mounted archers and let the other one attack, while the first one form a circle and skirmish the enemy. Using wide formations will help to minimize losses. Even when unable to beat the enemy at this flank, you will keep them away from the point you make your main attack! A fast hand to hand unit of your cavalry can make the decision in this game later on.
When able to use war elephants, they can strike fear into the enemy cavalry too. But never let them run through their arrows alone. Use a cheaper unit to attract fire again!

The very best way to get rid of the mounted archers is to fight them under your conditions. Let them attack your battle line while standing at a hilltop; bait them into a wood and between your spearmen! Use your artillery to fire at them. Delay their advantage and let them waist their arrows, which can be made by own mounted archers in open mode while skirmish in catabrian circle.
Ah and don’t forget to let them attack your walled cities! They really suck there! If you have only a few, but excellent units as a garrison, they will attack your city walls and loose many men on this attempt. Make sure they are well balanced. There are some units that can be hidden in city streets which can ambush pursuant enemy cavalry too. Use superior infantry, Hordes usually have only bad infantry itself, strengthe yourself while using priests.

Fighting cavalry armies requires flexible tactics. Make sure not too loose the overview. Hope this helps.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Not that I'm the least of an expert but I've discovered that fighting mounted missile units fits in the common "pin down and flank" principal. Have your light cavalry engage them and hit with heavy cavalry or spears from rear/flank. Save the immortals, which are still vulnerable to rear heavy cavalry charge, mounted missiles suck at melee.
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[teja]

You are right.
My english must be poor and my head must have been not with the topic while I missed to point this out clear enough too. Looks I was too much engaged in how to make good diversions against mounted archers to allow you a good attack elswhere. It is easy to make many mounted archers busy with only a few own units. This helps in becoming a decisive advantage at other parts of the battlefield where you have to fight out the real decision.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Yep. If I have the chance, I eliminate horse archers at first place in order to fight the others comfortably.
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