Question on Swordsmen in MTW...

[rvg]

Specifically, what in the world is their purpose?

I have developed an intense dislike for swordsmen after playing a Dane camaign and watching those dirt-cheap Vikings slaughter MAA, Cavalry and anything else in head-on melee...
Basically, no matter what the task, swordsmen do not shine at it. What, killing Spears? Well, welcome to the Anything-But-Light-Cavalry club. Charging Archers? Nah, Swords usually get shot up too badly during the charge. Flanking? Pretty much every other non-spear melee unit makes a better flanker. Heck, even Urban Militia will do a better job, not to mention those magnificent Gallowglasses.
Even when I play the sword-heavy Byz, I only make Byz Inf until I get the Varang assembly line going.

Now, I'm rather new to MTW, so I really hope that I am missing something about the use of Swordsmen. Can anyone please enlighten me on the subject?

[Gtafanboy]

They are usefull against spearmen and pikemen. With 2 or more units you can use them to take out archers. So yeah they are useful. Really onlf for the things listed though.

[Papewaio]

Swordsmen... I use them for a countercharge... I prefer Vikings and Billmen. Vikings and billmen get armour piercing, they are a great counter against swordsmen.

However swordsmen are good once the spearmen have received a charge from cav you flank with the swordsmen.

Also if you don't have any swordsmen, vikings or billmen you will find it hard going against an army with a lot of swordsmen if you are spearmen heavy.

Combined arms are always good.

[rvg]

Swordsmen... I use them for a countercharge... I prefer Vikings and Billmen. Vikings and billmen get armour piercing, they are a great counter against swordsmen.

However swordsmen are good once the spearmen have received a charge from cav you flank with the swordsmen.

Also if you don't have any swordsmen, vikings or billmen you will find it hard going against an army with a lot of swordsmen if you are spearmen heavy.

Combined arms are always good.

Well, my armies are usually VERY archer/arbalest heavy. They do most of the killing (both in offense and defense). The rest is mostly a mix of Cavalry and Anticav units.

I was just curious whether or not there is something that sworsmen are REALLY good at. Something that will make you say "Hey, this is a job for the swordsmen."

[ichi]

Welcome to the Org rvg

I'm a big sword unit fan, FMAA and CMAA make up the bulk of my armies both in SP and online.

Spear units can be useful in the campaign against the AI's cav and for holding a main line, but they genrally lack morale and have low attack stats.

Try using your swords on Hold Formation, 3 ranks deep. This works well especially if you have 4-5 units to set in a line and keep close together. It helps if you can get them up to valor 3 or morale 8, and of course armor will help against those nasty missiles.

Check these recent threads from the Main Hall

FMAA and CMAA (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54526)

Swords and Polearms (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=48774)

ichi:bow:

[Gtafanboy]

I use them 2 ranks deep. To help them wrap around the enemy.

[econ21]

Swordsmen are the counter to spears. Yes, you could try something else for that. But cavalry is wasted on spears and personally I'd rather use my missiles on something more dangerous (AI missiles or cav, for example).

Yes, you could beat the AI with just missiles and a bit of cav/anti-cav but unless you are playing the English that sounds a bit ahistorical and rather unchallenging. I understand swords are very cost effective in MP - spears apparently are not - but I only play SP.

Yes, Vikings, Gallowglasses, Billmen, Varangians etc are better in the swords role but not everyone/every era gets such special units.

Try a campaign as Almohads on early and tell me swordsmen are useless. (Although things do start to get interesting when you meet massed heavy cavalry like with the Mongols or a strong Byzantinium).

[lugh]

Swords are simplky godly in the early era.
Spear untis dominate the AI army selections and a few choice sword units commited at the right time while your cav disrupts the archers can carve up Early armies in short order.
If you're playing XL, then you can even use Foot Knights for the role and it becomes stupidly easy. I find they only lose their functionality when the AI begins to tech up, as Chiv spear and later better spear/pike, tend to have enought armour that a basic sword unit just doesn't cut it. That's when you start scouring your inns for gallows and highlanders.

[ichi]

I use them 2 ranks deep. To help them wrap around the enemy.

When used 2 deep on Engage they are susceptible to Heavy Cav charges, they can evaporate if hit properly. 2 deep also means the unit is quite wide, so in the midst of a thick battle they can get snagged while maneuvering.

Develop good cav and use it as your anticav, swords for everything else.

ichi:bow:

[rvg]

I guess I've found an answer to my own question. Castle Assaults. That's where swordsmen rule supreme. They are hardy enough to deal/take damage and cheap enough to make replacement costs a non-issue.

I now make sure to have a special Castle Assault Corps consisting of nothing but swordsmen and artillery.

[Mr Frost]

Use Sword units in forests . Spear and pike units lose their rank bonuses and cavalry suffer a heafty penalty but swords {and axes ectc} are still at full efficiency and thus dominate spears and cavalry in wooded terrain .
Men at Arms have the added advantage of good armour compared to Vikings which comes in useful if your opponent has lots of archers {especially horse archers} and moral compared to Militia Sergents {which are a better unit than many think , a good team with Feudal Men at Arms and Feudal Sergents} which is vital when outnumbered and in very long defensive battles .

Taking Scotland to get Highland Clansmen {Och aye mon !} is always a good move , as they rock , but the lack of armour compared to Men at Arms is even more apparant and problematic than with Vikings .

Get those Men at Arms in the woods and watch them own spears !

[matteus the inbred]

on a VI note, Celtic Warriors with a decent general/valour upgrade will carve through almost anything the non-Viking factions can throw at you in shocking fashion, although they have no armour (only snazzy bi-coloured trousers) so need a lot of post-battle replacements.
paint 'em with woad, field 'em three deep, get the high ground and then throw back your shaggy hair (see Stephen Dillane as Merlin in 2004's King Arthur), yell something rude in Welsh and let 'em roll.

i agree with rvg, in MTW swordsmen, the heavier the better, are excellent for castle assaults. i prefer to use billmen on the battlefield, or halberdiers if i'm not English, mainly for flanking while Chiv/feudal sergeants do the hard work. i find they always take a lot of casualties though, however i use them.

[The Darkhorn]

I don't know about Clansmen or Gallows, but I don't recall ever seeing FMAA lose head to head to a spear, armored spear, or feudal sergeant in open battle. I know I've never seen a CMAA lose one on one to ANY spear unit.

[Microwavegerbil]

Oh yeah clansmen rock, send a bunch of them out and they can disrupt (or destroy) just about any army at very little cost to you.:boxing: