A few MTW questions

[Cowhead418]

I've had this game for a pretty long while (about a year and a half now) but still consider myself an inexperienced player. I often take more casualties in battles than I should and am still learning new battle tactics and how to effectively manage an army.

This question may seem a little noobish but I've been having a problem lately with my elite units being worn down by the considerably weaker units. For example, I recently invaded an Italian province defended by a mostly Urban Milita army with some peasants and Royal Knights along with a single unit of Militia Sergeants. My army consisted of arbs, Mamluk Cavalry, Ghulam Cavalry, Armenian Heavys, Ghazis, and Saracen Infantry. I set up on a hill and sent a few arbs to draw the enemy out of the forest. As they marched up to greet my army I peppered them with arrows. I pinned their Cavalry with my Saracens and engaged the UM with my Mamluks. I moved some Cavalry to flank and used the Ghazis to attack the MS and peasants. The battle was a success but for some reason my Mamluks, who were attacking down a hill facing UM, took some considerable losses and my flanking units were cut to pieces by the routing units (I hate when this happens). Why? How did similar valour UM cut down my elite Mamluks attacking uphill?

Secondly, I've read that you should use spear units to take cavalry charges by setting them up three or four ranks deep and in the hold position. I faced an HRE crusade in battle and set up a 2 valour unit of Muwahid Foot Soldiers on a slightly elevated position three ranks deep and in the hold position. The enemy general Royal Knight unit charged and the impact caused 27 Muwahid Foot Soldiers to fall in less than 3 seconds. Huh? I also had a similar problem in a bridge battle when my Saracen Infantry unit on the bridge lost 30 men before the attacking Royal Knights (similar valour also) lost a single man. What is happening here?

Finally, I have vanilla MTW, and am waiting for my current Egyptian campaign to end before installing VI. I've considered downloading some patches or mods when I tire of vanilla, but are there any recommendations for a certain patch or mod that I should download? Are there any that absolutely needs to be downloaded that makes the gameplay significantly better?

I'm sorry if any of these questions have been asked before, but I hope you can forgive me just this once. Thanks for any help.:bow:

[lugh]

How did similar valour UM cut down my elite Mamluks attacking uphill? IIRC, UM are armour peircing and are armed with pole arms. This equals death to cavalry and armoured units, Ghulams are both!
In future, use another unit to pin them and charge them from the rear with your ghulams, yhey've low morale and will rout quickly. Use a sword unit for the frontal assault if you like, on wedge, they'll cut away at the Um's ranks easily.



The enemy general Royal Knight unit charged and the impact caused 27 Muwahid Foot Soldiers to fall in less than 3 seconds.

Muwahid Foot are a specialist spear unit, they've a brutal defense and poor armour, but high attack and speed. They're best used as flankers or as in the above scenario to pin other units allowing a flank by cavalry.

edit. missed the third q.

There's no mod that's essential butg if VI doesn't come patched, patch it, I can't remember if I had to or not.
I played vanilla VI for a long time before I bothered to mod it. I can recommend XL mod though, it adds a rake of new units and factions to Medieval and improves the AI signifigantly. Med Mod and BKBs mod also come highly recomended and are in a simialr vein.
Other mods I've played and liked are Hellenic TW, Napoleonic TW and Pike & Musket. They all change the timeline however to Classical Greece etc etc.

[Ludens]

IIRC, UM are armour peircing and are armed with pole arms. This equals death to cavalry and armoured units, Ghulams are both!
UM are not armed with polearms but poleaxes, making them AP but not anti-cavalry. Also, Mameluks are not heavily armoured and are lacking a bit when it comes to stats. Anyway, it is usually a bad idea to let cavalry make an unsupported frontal attack on infantry, as they get worn down in the following melee. Their low numbers and broad frontage make them vulnerable to be overwhelmed by an unbroken enemy. Cavalry are for charging and breaking a weak or wavering enemy, not for slugging it out in melee. Do not underestimate UM either. They may be militia, but with a little valour they are less likely to run away and they have the stats (plus an AP bonus) to do some damage.


I faced an HRE crusade in battle and set up a 2 valour unit of Muwahid Foot Soldiers on a slightly elevated position three ranks deep and in the hold position. The enemy general Royal Knight unit charged and the impact caused 27 Muwahid Foot Soldiers to fall in less than 3 seconds. Huh? I also had a similar problem in a bridge battle when my Saracen Infantry unit on the bridge lost 30 men before the attacking Royal Knights (similar valour also) lost a single man. What is happening here?
As Lugh explained, Muwahids are fast but lightly-armoured spearmen that tend to die very fast. The Saracens incident can be explained because the Saracens were on a brigde (bunched up and thus suffering a squeeze penalty) and out of formation. Off course, flukes happen sometimes.


I've considered downloading some patches or mods when I tire of vanilla, but are there any recommendations for a certain patch or mod that I should download? Are there any that absolutely needs to be downloaded that makes the gameplay significantly better?
You shoud certainly download the patch (1.1 if you don't have VI, 2.01 if you do) as they solve a lot of issues. I don't know if they cause save game incompatibility, though. I definitely recommend installing VI as well as it strongly improves the game. As for mods, the problem is that there are very few mods for vanilla M:TW. All good ones have been ported to VI long ago. There was a discussion on which mod was best some time ago in the Main Hall. You can find it here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=53100).

[Just A Girl]

I think your questions have been mostly answered by people who have more MTW expirience than I,

but il say
im playing Napolionic Total War (mod for MTW VI)
at the moment and Find it quite enjoyable.

I have a few problems about the new Seige equipment that Replaces The Origional cannon you could build in the bell foundry,
"its like 100% accurate, Hugley devistating, Has Great range, And Most of all Its mobile"

The defending Ai has little hope against a small number of units and 3 of these things.

Although initially its really cool to See 100 light infantry become 80 in 1 shot and there Still Miles away.
But it does make the game a bit unfair for the AI,

I dont think the Ai understands that its able to be hit from that sort of distance.
So it dosent bother to moove.

Still a good Mod though, And It looks nice,

And im not shure if its the update or vi,

But one of them gives you an option to save your game before Entering a battle Or using auto calc.
I remember it not being an option,
And then it was an option.
cant remember if that was A patch or if i installed vi though.

[Vider]

Secondly, I've read that you should use spear units to take cavalry charges by setting them up three or four ranks deep and in the hold position. I faced an HRE crusade in battle and set up a 2 valour unit of Muwahid Foot Soldiers on a slightly elevated position three ranks deep and in the hold position. The enemy general Royal Knight unit charged and the impact caused 27 Muwahid Foot Soldiers to fall in less than 3 seconds. Huh? I also had a similar problem in a bridge battle when my Saracen Infantry unit on the bridge lost 30 men before the attacking Royal Knights (similar valour also) lost a single man. What is happening here?

Finally, I have vanilla MTW, and am waiting for my current Egyptian campaign to end before installing VI. I've considered downloading some patches or mods when I tire of vanilla, but are there any recommendations for a certain patch or mod that I should download? Are there any that absolutely needs to be downloaded that makes the gameplay significantly better?



I'm pretty sure the problem you encountered with the 27 falling foot soldiers is due to a bug in the knockback code, which was fixed in a patch (can't remember which one). So installing VI (and DLing the patch for that, if it's not included already) would get right of that particular bug, although I don't think you'd then be able to play your saved games. The VI expansion adds things to the normal campaign as well, and is worth having even if you never play the VI map.

[Just A Girl]

VI as welsh on expert Rules!! :)

[Knight Templar]

The battle was a success but for some reason my Mamluks, who were attacking down a hill facing UM, took some considerable losses and my flanking units were cut to pieces by the routing units (I hate when this happens). Why? How did similar valour UM cut down my elite Mamluks attacking uphill?

Well, Mamluks are armed with axes, which gives them AP, but lowers their charge, so in the first few seconds you might be suprised as Mamluks didn't achieve much advantage from charge.
Secondly, although I agree with ludens that using cav for face-to-face attack is not smart tactics, I still whink they should win an unit of UM (they have very bad defence), especially attacking downhill. BTW, don't forget that forest awfully decreases cav attack and defense.
And the last one, which formation did you put your Mamluks in?. Cavalry is most efficient in two ranks deep formation, so they can flank unit they're attacking. :charge: :charge:

[Cowhead418]

Thank you all for answering.:bow: I will consider downloading after I finish my current campaign so I have no worries about messing up any savegames. The Mamluks were attacking four ranks deep by the way.

I heard there was a patch that helped reduce casualties by routing units. I really hate it when I flank a spear unit with my cavalry, then have the routing spears massacre my flanking units. I really want to try that Napoleon mod, sounds really cool.:charge:

[ichi]

Excellent questions and answers by Ludens and lugh.

I use my anticav troops like Muwahids and Saracens at least 4 deep, set on Hold Form to take the charge. If they are isolated and fighting a single cav unit, after the charge I switch to Engage-at-Will. I rarely use any melee troops set to Hold Pos.

ichi:bow: