Fixing Pilums - Modding/Formation Guru's Please Help

[fallen851]

So I had an idea awhile ago, if I removed the prec ability from Legionaries, they would throw both their pilums, and then enter battle, rather than just throwing one and charging. Also human players would be able to throw pilums, and then choose not to charge, making pilums much eaiser to use.

In the game against a slow moving unit like a phalanx this worked wonderfully , removing the prec ability from the export_descr_unit.text file made the AI legionaries throw both pilums before charging (I also increased pilum range to 50 from 35), and when a human player used the legionaries, pilums could be used far more effectively.

The problem was against fast/charging moving units, because removing the prec ability meant that the skirmish mode was turned on, the AI legionaries would run around like fools when enemy troops apporached. So I went into the descr_formations_ai.text file, changed all the heavy_pilum_infantry and light_pilum_infantry to heavy infantry and light infantry respectively and set the default_melee_state for those units to defend, but sometimes they still skirmish (perhaps they always skirmish, hard to know?).

So I'm wondering if someone who knows more about this can help engineer an AI that wouldn't skirmish (perhaps I'm not doing this properly?) by editing the formations text? This would really improve the game.

If anyone would like to replicate what I did, if it isn't clear above just ask.

Thanks.

[shifty157]

Couldnt you just turn on the fire at will ability? Thats what i generally do when i want the same effect.

[Epistolary Richard]

I think that's just for the human player, I don't think there's anything in the formations file that allows you to set the AI to fire at will.

[The_Mark]

Fire at will can be turned on*, that's simple, but getting the AI to not skirmish isn't; the prec tag is the only thing that makes the AI use its missile units as non-skirmishing, and that's no use here.


*fire_at_will tag, or with defend: defend_and_fire_at_will (xor vice versa)

[fallen851]

I've actually tried all the tags (defend, fire_at_will, and engage_at_will) but none of them seem to work 100% of the time (sometimes some units still skirmish, oddly enough not all of them).

I guess what I'm looking for is a way to turn skirmish off permanently, can it be done using the default_melee_state line in the formations.txt? If so, obviously I'm doing something wrong, so would someone be so kind as to replicate what I've done above, except do it correctly...? This is beyond my skill level...

You'd be doing me (and the rest of the RTW community) a great favor (sometimes I feel like I'm the only one who absolutely hates the pilum system though...)

Maybe CA (or someone if it isn't hardcoded?) can edit the abilities of the prec tag, why in the world would they make it so they charge after they throw 1 (of 2) pilums? Why not at least throw both pilums then charge? Or better yet, just throw the stinkin pilums, then take any orders the commander gives. That is blockheaded. Also with the prec tag removed, they go into battle with their pilums in hand, so they end up throwing them sooner which is of course, more effective.

[Red Harvest]

Romans (and others) used pila as a true precursor attack, sometimes on the run/double quick. The idea was to disrupt the enemy formation, perhaps kill/wound a few, and at least make their shield unwieldy. All of this would lend power to the actual charge. Besides, while someone is shielding themselves from missile attack, they are not really able to countercharge.

The worst part about the way it is presently done is the long halt to get ready to throw then another pregnant pause before running. It isn't fluid. Then there was the pila pause when out of pila to throw...haven't been playing pila factions in 1.3 so I'm not sure if this is gone or not. For the AI, CA has ended pila use as a "solution." This just weakens the AI relative to the human.

Incidentally, a funny thing about pila is that while there are technically 2 per man...this includes officers who can't throw. Ammo is pooled per total men in the unit, even ones who shouldn't have ammo. (Most noticeable on chariots.) So even when all the men throw, they will get 2 full vollies, then a small remainder.

The delays and such that CA built in with most units don't match at all with the high movement speed. Simply put: natural counter actions aren't possible. It is a fundamental flaw in RTW.

[The_Mark]

What he said.



I've actually tried all the tags (defend, fire_at_will, and engage_at_will) but none of them seem to work 100% of the time (sometimes some units still skirmish, oddly enough not all of them).

That's the AI - I'd think that as you can, as the player, toggle the modes during battle, so can the AI, which isn't exactly the sharpest tool in the shed. You can try using combinations of the tags (if you haven't already), that might help a bit, but prolly not enough.