Ghurkas

[English assassin]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/story/0,11816,1659226,00.html

An article about the annual selection in Nepal to join the British Army's Ghurka regiment which I thought might interest the Org

[Ja'chyra]

A very interesting read.

All the Ghurkas I have worked with have been great people very friendly, and obviously very strong.

The only crticism I could make is that the British Army doesn't treat them as well as they should.

[KukriKhan]

Those guys and their history have always fascinated me.

I saw brief mention of the 'pension parity' concerns in the article; does anyone know if Ghurkas are paid the same as native-born Brit troops?

[English assassin]

Not at present http://www.army.mod.uk/brigade_of_gurkhas/judicial_review.htm

I believe their pay rates were the same as the old Indian army, which no longer exists. (well, it does, only now its Indian, if you see what I mean)

[English assassin]

double post

[yesdachi]

Cool article. From it I lave learned/confirmed that average life in Nepal sucks, I am totally out of shape compared to the applicants and dads who are proud of their kids know how to party!~;)


If he gets selected I will have a party. I will have a big goat and chop off its head.

[Geoffrey S]

The Gurkhas are fascinating, and it's an interesting article.

[Adrian II]

The reason these youths are here is not hard to divine. Nepal is one of the poorest countries in Asia, with 82% surviving on less than $2 a day.Yes. How fascinating they are, these mercenaries bought on the cheap.

Yuk.

[Geoffrey S]

Not very ethical, true, but their fairly unique position in the British armed forces and their service in both World Wars makes them interesting to me; that their selection is still ongoing in such an archaic and dubious way that is out of character for a modern Western nation makes them even more so.

[English assassin]

Would it be better if they worked in a GAP sweatshop?

What's wrong with a poor country exporting labour? And, without coming over all misty eyed, serving as a Ghurka is something they can be proud of.

[Adrian II]

Would it be better if they worked in a GAP sweatshop?Isn't that what they tell Third World girls before they ship them off to western brothels? Rather thin excuse.

[Red Peasant]

Successive British governments have considerably reduced the Ghurka regiments and would like to eliminate them altogether one feels, but support for them is widespread in Britain and it is felt that we owe a debt to these people for their service to this country.
A hell of a lot of people in Britain don't earn £1000 per month so Ghurka pay is not exactly cheap, and their increased pension is certainly more than I would currently be entitled to from the state, but I don't begrudge them one bit, and I've never met anyone who does.

[English assassin]

Isn't that what they tell Third World girls before they ship them off to western brothels? Rather thin excuse.

You are trying a bit too hard if you think that there is no valid distinction between service in the British Army and working in a brothel, AII.

Anyway, come on, there are loads of 18 yr old boys in Nepal right this moment. You read the article. Can you make the case that stopping the army recruiting into the Ghurkas would be a good thing for them?

I think we should have more ghurkas myself.

[Adrian II]

You are trying a bit too hard if you think that there is no valid distinction between service in the British Army and working in a brothel, AII.Gurkhas literally sell their bodies to escape the feudal misery of Nepal. As for the 'debt' which 'grateful Britain' owes them: Gurkhas were payed a pittance until recently when they were finally in a position to file a class action suit. There is nothing fascinating about the whole thing, unless you believe in the 'warrior races' nonsense, in which case I wish you a happy 19th century.

[Duke Malcolm]

With 15,000 applicants, we could easily get a few more battalions.

I don't see anything wrong with recruiting the Ghurkas... Nepal is in the British Commonwealth, so if we didn't have the Brigade of Ghurkas they would simply join other regiments, at least they can call the Ghurkas their own and be proud of it as we are of our own regiments...

[English assassin]

Gurkhas literally sell their bodies to escape the feudal misery of Nepal

No, enrolling in the British army is not "literally selling their bodies". Any more than any other job is.

Obviously soldiering is not a job you have much respect for, and no doubt you are entitled to your opinion. Not that it is one that would be shared by a lot of Nepalese I suspect.

As for the history of it all, it is relevant, I suppose, in that it shows we haven't just picked a poor part of the world where we can get squaddies on the cheap. And on the pay, Ghurkas were paid at the same rates as the rest of the (British) Indian army, but those rates were not updated after the Ghurkas came into the British army.

[Adrian II]

No, enrolling in the British army is not "literally selling their bodies". Any more than any other job is.No, all they have to do is put their lives on the line for fifteen years. Have you been shot at in your 'other job' lately?

[yesdachi]

You mention that

Nepal is in the British Commonwealth
Can you or anyone explain the relationship to me? Wikipedia notes that there is an “agreement of friendship” between the two but I don’t understand how Nepal is such a poor nation if they have a friendship with GB. I’m not implying that GB owes them anything I’m just trying to understand.:bow:

[yesdachi]

No, all they have to do is put their lives on the line for fifteen years. Have you been shot at in your 'other job' lately?
I would consider it if I were paid 33 times what my peers from “back home” lived on.~:)

[Adrian II]

Can you or anyone explain the relationship to me? Wikipedia notes that there is an “agreement of friendship” between the two but I don’t understand how Nepal is such a poor nation if they have a friendship with GB. I’m not implying that GB owes them anything I’m just trying to understand.:bow:The British bought the perpetual right to recruit Gurkhas in a 1947 treaty with India and Nepal. Kathmandu has been living off this barter in human lives until the 1970's when it began getting a little trade and tourism income. Gurkha remittances are still a major part of the country's revenue. None of that is spent on the Gurkha peoples themselves. It pays off to keep them poor and living in harsh conditions so that they are both able and willing to serve in the British Army. A bit of colonial smoke and racial make-believe take care of any pangs of conscience. This is how the British and Nepalese governments conserve their favourite 'warrior race'.

Fascinating, isn't it?

Like the production of foie gras really.

[Duke Malcolm]

You're just moody because your country's army doesn't have something nearly as good or special as the Ghurkas...

The British Commonwealth of Nations is a Commonwealth of those Nations which were part of the British Empire (except Mozambique), especially the British Dominions (where HM the Queen is Head of State). They remain "friends" and have good relations...

[Adrian II]

You're just moody because your country's army doesn't have something nearly as good or special as the Ghurkas...Special my foot.

They have been traded and rented out like human commodity, even in cases where they had to suppress fellow Asians.

In the 1950's and 1960's British Gurkhas were rented out to Malaya, Brunei and Indonesia in order to help suppress their resistance movements. In Malaya these Gurkhas were paid 42 Malayan dollars a month for doing all the dirty work; afterwards the Brits sent the Malayan government a bill to the amount of 450 M$ per Gurkha. And Brunei had to pay 1.5 GBP and foot the entire bill for the Gurkha battalion they 'rented'. Good little money-makers, eh?

Of course many of them were sent home empty-handed. Thousands had to herd livestock and plow the fields well into their 60's and 70s' despite the lack of an arm, a leg or an eye which they had lost in 'British' battles. Some committed suicide in British service because of homesickness and humiliation, others did so afterwards because of loss of face or starvation. It is part of their mountain culture not to speak about your dukkha to others. Hence their proverbial reticence.

'Inscrutable' is the word, I believe? ~:handball:

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

AII-Although we don't pay them nearly enough, are you seriously suggesting that getting rid of our Nepalese regiments would be beneficial to Nepal?

I'm not sure these boys would be very pleased to hear that their one avenue of escape has been removed because it's an imperialist throwback.

[Adrian II]

AII-Although we don't pay them nearly enough, are you seriously suggesting that getting rid of our Nepalese regiments would be beneficial to Nepal?Are you seriously suggesting that Gurkha recruitment is overseas development aid? Please...

I suggest you do as the French do with their Foreign Legionnaires: normal pay, normal pension, normal benefits and bonuses plus the option of French nationality.

Ah, but that would upset the Indians, wouldn't it? After all they have a similar arrangement with Kathmandu to exploit the Gurkhas since 1947.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Are you seriously suggesting that Gurkha recruitment is overseas development aid? Please...

Erm...I don't think I said anything of the sort. I simply pointed out that stopping recruitment wouldn't solve anything.

I agree with you, we need to pay them more, and they can already gain British nationality.

[Adrian II]

Erm...I don't think I said anything of the sort. I simply pointed out that stopping recruitment wouldn't solve anything.That makes two of us. I didn't say recruitment had to stop. I just don't buy the Gurkha romance crap.

[Meneldil]

AdrianII, I understand the way Ghurkas are treated right now isn't really great, and that it can be assimilated to some form of 'slavery' (though that's not what I think), but given the current situation in Nepal, these youngsters will probably have a better life working in the british army. Starving in a mountainous area, while waiting for either the communist guerilla or the governement's forces to shot you isn't really exciting.

[Adrian II]

(..) given the current situation in Nepal, these youngsters will probably have a better life working in the British Army.Sure, I just said so. That is why they can be easily recruited.

But their treatment is part of an exploitative arrangement. India too abuses them. It is using many more Gurkhas than provided by the 1947 treaty, and it is employing them in wars with neighbouring countries in contravention of said treaty. For instance many Gurkhas have died in the Kargill border war with Pakistan, where they have no business being in the first place. Kathmandu is not protesting, nor is it representing the Gurkhas in their conflicts with the British government. These guys are treated like a commodity, just like prostitutes from poor countries.

[Dâriûsh]

I didn’t even know they were still recruited.

[Tribesman]

The British Commonwealth of Nations is a Commonwealth of those Nations which were part of the British Empire (except Mozambique), especially the British Dominions (where HM the Queen is Head of State). They remain "friends" and have good relations...

ahem .... what about Zimbabwe ? Are they good friends . America was part of the Empire , are they in the commonwealth? what about Ireland? Myanamar ,Sudan . All good friends and good relations and all in the commonwealth .

[Marcellus]

Erm...we have generally good relations with the commonwealth members. Unless of course we don't. Hmm.

[bmolsson]

The retired Gurkhas gets great jobs in security. They are the preferred choice in Malaysia and Singapore with a special VISA for just retired Gurkhas. They are interesting in deed.

[Adrian II]

The retired Gurkhas gets great jobs in security. They are the preferred choice in Malaysia and Singapore with a special VISA for just retired Gurkhas.They also act as a praetorian guard to the sultan of Brunei, yet another beacon of democracy.
They are interesting in deed.I think they are just absolutely, incredibly, totally fascinating.

[Papewaio]

The British Commonwealth of Nations is a Commonwealth of those Nations which were part of the British Empire (except Mozambique), especially the British Dominions (where HM the Queen is Head of State). They remain "friends" and have good relations...

ahem .... what about Zimbabwe ? Are they good friends . America was part of the Empire , are they in the commonwealth? what about Ireland? Myanamar ,Sudan . All good friends and good relations and all in the commonwealth .

To stay part of the Commonwealth you have to be either already be a democracy or actively heading towards it. It is based on who belonged to the British Empire in the last century.

As for the Gurkhas they should be payed more. But they are not the only Commonwealth members serving in the British forces. There is a considerably portion of Fijians, and quite a few of them in the British SAS.

As for warrior race, genes and environment and culture add up to make a formiable combination. I have been in enough fights with involving Pakehas and Maoris (fighting on both sides...commonly referred to as a Rugby game)to know that there are some things that you cannot learn without experience and some things you cannot do without fitness... this was also true of us country kids vs townies...

However I do not believe that if you removed a Gurkha at birth and rasied him as a spoilt brat that he would still fit the mold of a hardened warrior.

[Tribesman]

To stay part of the Commonwealth you have to be either already be a democracy or actively heading towards it. It is based on who belonged to the British Empire in the last century.

Brunei is not a democracy neither is it heading towards democracy , yet it is part of the Commonwealth .
Ireland is a democracy yet it is not part of the Commonwealth .
Edit to add...Zimbabwe has "elections" is a Multi-Party Republic , yet currently is not part of the Commonwealth .

As for the Gurkhas they should be payed more. But they are not the only Commonwealth members serving in the British forces.
Nepal is not part of the Commonwealth .

[Ja'chyra]

All I can say is that all the Ghurkas I knew were proud to have served in the British Army, but as I said before, we should treat them better with equivalent pay and passports for all those who have served, no matter if it was 50 years ago.

I find it sickening that we will let in any pleb that can sneak onto a truck but wont give the same rights to people who have bled for us.

[Papewaio]

To stay part of the Commonwealth you have to be either already be a democracy or actively heading towards it. It is based on who belonged to the British Empire in the last century.

Brunei is not a democracy neither is it heading towards democracy , yet it is part of the Commonwealth .
Ireland is a democracy yet it is not part of the Commonwealth .
Edit to add...Zimbabwe has "elections" is a Multi-Party Republic , yet currently is not part of the Commonwealth .


Ireland, it left the Commonwealth.

Zimbawee, it was kicked out because it has rigged its elections.

Brunei... true it is not a democracy, but its citizens have a better standard of living then virtually everyone else in the Commonwealth... a benevolent dictatorship.



As for the Gurkhas they should be payed more. But they are not the only Commonwealth members serving in the British forces.
Nepal is not part of the Commonwealth .


Nepal is not part of the Commonwealth... it has been relatively independent of British or British Colonies rule... but I can't see others denying it access if it asked... but there is a special treaty between the UK and Nepal which if anything was a precedent for the independence of the British colonies and the setup of the Commonwealth in some ways.

[English assassin]

Passports is potentially tricky if it undermines one argument that the Ghurka system benefits Nepal by people sending money back.

That said as I said in another post I grew up in a military town which had a Ghurka barracks and to be honest it would have been a lot better place if we had shipped out half the English born scum I grew up with and kept all the Ghurkas. So passports is good for Britain even if its bad for Nepal. Anyway its not a live debate as they get UK passports now.

As for pay and pensions, they should of course be paid fairly. Whether that means they need to be paid the same as soldiers in the regular army (which as someone pointed out now includes quite a few from the commonwealth) is arguable. But if the case was made that they needed to be paid the same I'm all for it.

[Tribesman]

OK Pape , I was just clearing that up .
So basically .... countries that are in the Commonwealth are in the Commonwealth because....they are in the Commonwealth .
And countries that are not in the Commonwealth are not in the Commonwealth.....because they are not in the Commonwealth .

And while some Commonwealth soldiers are in the British Army the Ghurkas who are in the British Army are not Commonwealth soldiers .

There , its all clear now ~;)

[yesdachi]

The British bought the perpetual right to recruit Gurkhas in a 1947 treaty with India and Nepal. Kathmandu has been living off this barter in human lives until the 1970's when it began getting a little trade and tourism income. Gurkha remittances are still a major part of the country's revenue. None of that is spent on the Gurkha peoples themselves. It pays off to keep them poor and living in harsh conditions so that they are both able and willing to serve in the British Army. A bit of colonial smoke and racial make-believe take care of any pangs of conscience. This is how the British and Nepalese governments conserve their favourite 'warrior race'.

Fascinating, isn't it?

Like the production of foie gras really.
Interesting comparison AII, it seems there is always a bright side and a dark side.

And thanks to everyone else for making the whole commonwealth thing as clear as mud.~;)


Side note: although I am familiar with what it is and how it is made can anyone tell me how foie gras tastes? It is not very popular her in the Dutch meat and potatoes land of West Michigan.

[Adrian II]

Passports is potentially tricky if it undermines one argument that the Ghurka system benefits Nepal by people sending money back. [..] But if the case was made that they needed to be paid the same I'm all for it.Is it really necessary to make such a case? My God man, they are willing to fight and die for you, and here you are wondering whether they should be granted citizenship and equal pay.

How... fascinating.

[English assassin]

Yes, so fascinating that the Court of Appeal, that well known bunch of racists, agreed in 2003 that the case had NOT been made.

So I'm not feeling too out of step with acceptable liberal opinion here in case you wondered.

[doc_bean]

Isn't the fact that their is so high a problem already ? If the best way to make money is to join a foreign army than a lot of people will obviously strive to do just that. But doesn't this mean that a lot of capable people are taken out of the 'normal' economy ? Kinda like how the Telecom and related sector are buying up all workers in India ?

Now I'm not saying you should pay them less of course, it just seems like a lose-lose situation...:hide:

[Adrian II]

Yes, so fascinating that the Court of Appeal, that well known bunch of racists, agreed in 2003 that the case had NOT been made.Maybe the Gurkhas are not entitled to it under existing agreements, but I feel that the British government should have granted it because it is the decent thing to do. If acceptable liberal opinion in your country is different, then screw acceptable liberal opinion.

[Redleg]

Maybe the Gurkhas are not entitled to it under existing agreements, but I feel that the British government should have granted it because it is the decent thing to do. If acceptable liberal opinion in your country is different, then screw acceptable liberal opinion.

Why don't you ask what the individuals who join the Gurkha Regiments think about their situation. If they are happy with it - then it is acceptable to screw the liberial opinion on this political opinion.... But that would probably run counter to your postion of attempting to prove how bad the situation is - and that they are not willing particapants in joining the Gurkha Regiments in service to the British Crown.

[Adrian II]

If they are happy with it - then it is acceptable to screw the liberial opinion on this political opinion...Eh? Did you follow the discussion? Liberal opinion says that they are happy, apparently. Or should be.

Anyhoo, did anyone ever wonder why in one and the same Magar or Gurung family, one man can be a Gurkha and his brother or cousin a Maoist guerilla? It seems that some repatriated Gurkhas have taken to training the Maoists to help them fight the western-inspired counterinsurgency tactics of Kathmandu. The Indians are really worried about this since it might 'infect' their own Gurkha regiments.

Isn't it totally, extremely, mesmerisingly fascinating?

[KukriKhan]

Definitions of fascinate on the Web:

intrigue: cause to be interested or curious
to render motionless, as with a fixed stare or by arousing terror or awe; "The snake charmer fascinates the cobra"
capture: attract; cause to be enamored; "She captured all the men's hearts"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I think the AdrianII's original objection was to the use of 'fascinate' by several posters (including me). My meaning was the 'intrigue' bit, not the 'enamored' stuff. I find it fascinating (intriguing) that this holdover from colonial days not only exists, but thrives.

The US actively recruits outside its borders also, but the Guamanian, Filipino, Samoan, etc recruits are assimilated into regular units, since 1949.

[Geoffrey S]

Definitions of fascinate on the Web:

intrigue: cause to be interested or curious
to render motionless, as with a fixed stare or by arousing terror or awe; "The snake charmer fascinates the cobra"
capture: attract; cause to be enamored; "She captured all the men's hearts"
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

I think the AdrianII's original objection was to the use of 'fascinate' by several posters (including me). My meaning was the 'intrigue' bit, not the 'enamored' stuff. I find it fascinating (intriguing) that this holdover from colonial days not only exists, but thrives.
Same here, about the intention of 'fascinate'.

[Redleg]

Eh? Did you follow the discussion? Liberal opinion says that they are happy, apparently. Or should be.

Your postion does not make sense - considering that the individuals who partake in the enlistment into the Ghurka Regiments do it at their free will.
So taking a chance to improve your postion in life by joining the military - is not an option in your opinion - at least that is the impression that you are leaving with your posts.

So what can the citizens of Nepal do to improve thier own individual postion in life?

Notice how poor the country of Nepal is - does it have an industry base to replace the income that is sent back to family?

Does Nepal have any natural resources to provide capital so that the infrastucture can be built to bring jobs into the country.

If Nepal allows more manafacturing companies to come in to use the labor pool available at the current labor wage rates for Nepal - (which by the way would still not come close to what enlisting into the Ghurka Regiment does for the family - at least not for several years)- that would improve the economy - but how will the goods be transported to other parts of the world. And Manafacturing would not improve the lot of those who live in the far corners of Nepal - its kind of hard for a land-locked country that is mountainous to have a viable export manafacturing start-up.



Anyhoo, did anyone ever wonder why in one and the same Magar or Gurung family, one man can be a Gurkha and his brother or cousin a Maoist guerilla? It seems that some repatriated Gurkhas have taken to training the Maoists to help them fight the western-inspired counterinsurgency tactics of Kathmandu. The Indians are really worried about this since it might 'infect' their own Gurkha regiments.

Then maybe India should pay thier Gurkha's more. A little healthy fear does the government good.



Isn't it totally, extremely, mesmerisingly fascinating?

The politics of the area are indeed fascinating.

[Adrian II]

Notice how poor the country of Nepal is - does it have an industry base to replace the income that is sent back to family?It does, but all the good jobs are taken by Brahmans who also have by far the most political clout. I don't blame Gurkhas for accepting foreign military service jobs. As usual with cheap Third World labour, they are exploited in a collaboration between internal and foreign elites.

[Redleg]

It does, but all the good jobs are taken by Brahmans who also have by far the most political clout.

Then blame the Brahman sect for taking the jobs from all the other sects in Nepal



I don't blame Gurkhas for accepting foreign military service jobs. As usual with cheap Third World labour, they are exploited in a collaboration between internal and foreign elites.

However the Gurkha's are not cheap third world labour - they are trained and held in esteem by many both in thier own country and outside.

They are given a chance to rise above the provety level of their home - and improve the finicial status of thier families.

THe system was designed back when Britian needed manpower for its Empire - that they still recruit from Nepal for the Ghurka Regiments shows how much the British appreicate the support that these people have provided to thier country. Would you rather see this opporunity disappear for the people of Nepal because of your preception that they are being exploited.

Willing people that must pass a tough selection process - are far from being exploited.........

[Adrian II]

Then blame the Brahman sect for taking the jobs from all the other sects in Nepal.I just did. Except of course that they are not sects. Magars, Gurungs and other 'Gurkha' tribes are ethnic groups. The Brahmans are the ruling Indo-Nepalese caste in Nepal. Anyway, equal pay and optional citizenship is the least that the Brits could do for Gurkhas, that's just a matter of common decency.

[Adrian II]

The US actively recruits outside its borders also, but the Guamanian, Filipino, Samoan, etc recruits are assimilated into regular units, since 1949.Don't tell me they receive equal pay! ~:eek:

[Mikeus Caesar]

Just my two pence, but i personally think we (The British) are doing a good thing recruiting all these Ghurkas. For one, they are some of the best soldiers in our army, and two, the money they earn makes them seem like millionaires compared to what most people in developing countries like Nepal earn. They obviously don't care if it's dangerous. After all, the money they get could turn their lives around.

Would you risk your life for enough money so that you are set for life, or would you rather work a miserable peasants existance on 58p a day for all your life?

[Redleg]

I just did. Except of course that they are not sects. Magars, Gurungs and other 'Gurkha' tribes are ethnic groups. The Brahmans are the ruling Indo-Nepalese caste in Nepal. Anyway, equal pay and optional citizenship is the least that the Brits could do for Gurkhas, that's just a matter of common decency.

I actually realized that I used sects instead of castes on my way to work - oh well I see you caught that slip.

[InsaneApache]

THe system was designed back when Britian needed manpower for its Empire - that they still recruit from Nepal for the Ghurka Regiments shows how much the British appreicate the support that these people have provided to thier country. Would you rather see this opporunity disappear for the people of Nepal because of your preception that they are being exploited.

Very well postulated RL :bow: ...eloquently put. Concise and to the point. :bow:

[Redleg]

Very well postulated RL :bow: ...eloquently put. Concise and to the point. :bow:

:bow:

[KukriKhan]

Don't tell me they receive equal pay! ~:eek:

Since '49...with one exception: KATUSA (Korean Augmentation To US Army) http://members.fortunecity.com/picturesfromkorea/Chaplains_Tour/katusa_program.html . Those soldiers serve alongside US soldiers in Korea, but get significantly less pay (but more than regular RoK soldiers get, IIRC). We 'get around' the pay disparity by paying the Korean gov't for KATUSA services, who then pay the KATUSA's their miserable wage.

[Redleg]

Since '49...with one exception: KATUSA (Korean Augmentation To US Army) http://members.fortunecity.com/picturesfromkorea/Chaplains_Tour/katusa_program.html . Those soldiers serve alongside US soldiers in Korea, but get significantly less pay (but more than regular RoK soldiers get, IIRC). We 'get around' the pay disparity by paying the Korean gov't for KATUSA services, who then pay the KATUSA's their miserable wage.

Having served at Camp Essayson's right next to a Defensive Line Bravo Infantry Battalion's Barracks - the KATUSA's that served in my unit were happy not to be in that Infantry Battalion.

Regardless of how poor the KATUSA is paid for thier service with the United States Army - they are conscripted soldiers in the South Korean Military. Its their government who makes money off of thier agumenation to the United States Military in South Korea, and our government which saves money from the relationship, its not an expoilation, in that regards since those individuals would still be required to fullfil their mandatory conscription service with the South Korean Military wether they do in in the KATUSA program or serve in the South Korean units.

When it started it was necessary for the defense of South Korea - and possiblity without it the Korean War would have turned out differently.

[bmolsson]

Brunei... true it is not a democracy, but its citizens have a better standard of living then virtually everyone else in the Commonwealth... a benevolent dictatorship.


Oil makes virtually any system prosperous.... ~;)

[Meneldil]

Not really, in many oil-owning countries, people don't get a single dollar from it. There are a few exceptions like Norway, Brunei and Khazakstan, but that's about it. Oil doesn't make Russian or Arabian people wealthier, it makes the ruling elite wealthier.

[doc_bean]

Not really, in many oil-owning countries, people don't get a single dollar from it. There are a few exceptions like Norway, Brunei and Khazakstan, but that's about it. Oil doesn't make Russian or Arabian people wealthier, it makes the ruling elite wealthier.

What about the UAE ?

[Mouzafphaerre]

What about the UAE ?
.
Where's Fizzil when you need him? ~;)

:director: Hey Texan!
.

[Adrian II]

.
Where's Fizzil when you need him? ~;)

:director: Hey Texan!
.I bet he's gone *cough* swimming *cough* again.

[ah_dut]

Yes, I do agree that we should pay them equally to our other troops...and give them passports like we already do...any problems now?

[Adrian II]

Yes, I do agree that we should pay them equally to our other troops... and give them passports like we already do... any problems now?No, things are not yet hunky-dory. As the Gurkha Welfare Trust puts it:


If there was a minute's silence for every Gurkha casualty from World War 2 alone, we would have to keep quiet for two weeks. But silence will not help the living, the wounded and disabled, those without military pensions following World War 2 service or redundancy, or those left destitute by ill health or natural disasters. With their dependants, they number many thousands. They live in often harsh conditions, with no national health service, no public housing and no unemployment benefit.

[Leet Eriksson]

What about the UAE ?

It so and so, UAE citizenry enjoy a living standard that is up to par with western europe, but non-citizens, particularily the asian laborers (pakistanis, indians, filipinos) do not.

Democracy is taking baby-steps though, just last week we had adverts for elections, and none of the elected people are from the royal family, they even allowed non-citizens to take government positions, which sounds good, at least.

Also in saudia the elite are kinda getting more generous to the saudi population, somehow the new king is far more open than his predecessor.

Qatar and Bahrain are pretty much the same with the UAE, Oman on the other hand, while qaboos did something pretty terrible to his dad, i think in the longer run he did benefit the omani people.

Thats the GCC currently in a nutshell.

[English assassin]

If there was a minute's silence for every Gurkha casualty from World War 2 alone, we would have to keep quiet for two weeks

?

And if there was a minute's silence for every casualty of the London Blitz we'd also have to keep quiet for two weeks. The Hunger-winter would take us three weeks. If it was soviet casualties we'd have to keep quite for up to 73 years, (depending on whose figures you believe.)

So? No one is saying casualties are a good thing.

[Adrian II]

And if there was a minute's silence for every casualty of the London Blitz we'd also have to keep quiet for two weeks.The Trust is making a point about the numbers of Gurkhas who died for the UK. It is not pleading for a two minute, a two week or a two year silence, although the latter would be appropriate for some of your politicians.

The point is that they died fighting for someone else's country. Yours, to be precise -- oh, and mine too, indirectly.

The callousness of some of your comments amazes me.