Iran plane crash: 68 journalists dead

[Geoffrey S]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4506074.stm


Reports say the plane had experienced technical problems all morning, causing the take-off to be delayed for hours.

Iranian media also say the pilot had asked twice to make an emergency landing at Mehrabad airport, but had been refused because it was busy.

Military officials have strongly denied any suggestion of negligence.

The C-130 came down in a densely-populated residential district of south-west Tehran and ploughed into a 10-storey apartment block, setting it on fire.

Among those killed were 68 journalists being flown to the southern city of Bandar Abbas to report on military exercises.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but that there were so many journalists onboard a military flight which ends up crashing despite plenty of warnings seems somewhat suspicious at first glance. Anyone know what kind of journalists was onboard (as in, pro-government or not) and some more on the way it's being treated in Iran?

[Redleg]

Iranian media also say the pilot had asked twice to make an emergency landing at Mehrabad airport, but had been refused because it was busy.


Emergency declarations are suppose to supercede everything else. To be denied twice permission to land by the airport for a declared emergency - should never happen.

Edit: to fix quote code

[Templar Knight]

Iran has had some problems with their C-130's, but nothing as bad as this one. Is it possible for Iran to purchase spare parts for their Hercules's or are there sanctions on them?

[Tribesman]

I'm not sure if it's just me, but that there were so many journalists onboard a military flight which ends up crashing despite plenty of warnings seems somewhat suspicious at first glance.
Very suspicious , a military plane carrying lots of journalists to watch military manouvers .~;)
the pilot had asked twice to make an emergency landing at Mehrabad airport, but had been refused because it was busy.

Would that be something like .....
"an engine has failed we need to land".......""we are clearing the runway"
"the engine is now on fire we need to land now"........"the runway is almost clear " ?
Its wing clipped a 10 story building on final approach , a tragedy but not a sinister conspiracy Geoffrey .
some more on the way it's being treated in Iran?
It is getting the same coverage , apart from the victims being called martyrs rather than victims . Of the 4 main Iranian English language media sites only one requires reqistration/subscription , but they are all government run so you may be better trying the foriegn based Iranian media for balance .


Is it possible for Iran to purchase spare parts for their Hercules's or are there sanctions on them?
Covered by sanctions TK , the only purchases since the revolution have been of second hand parts or those spares that were part of the Iran/Contra deal .

[Proletariat]

I was amazed by the amount of phone calls I heard yesterday on the BBC's World View radio show that blamed the US for this accident due to the sanctions.

[Adrian II]

(..) the victims being called martyrs rather than victims.Journalists called 'martyrs'?

Scuse me...











http://matousmileys.free.fr/rofl2.gif

[Tribesman]

Journalists called 'martyrs'?

Work for religeous nutters Adrian , everyone is a martyr then , journalists included~;)
Unless of course the official media doesn't like you , then you are called spawn of satan or something similar .~D

Edit to addI was amazed by the amount of phone calls I heard yesterday on the BBC's World View radio show that blamed the US for this accident due to the sanctions
Well , while they may have a point it does completely ignore that the majority of air accidents in Iran are of Eastern block aircraft , though I suppose they only buy the dodgy ex-soviet ones as they cannot buy the good ones .

[Geoffrey S]

Very suspicious , a military plane carrying lots of journalists to watch military manouvers .~;)
Which then promptly crashed under completely avoidable circumstances, and despite clear warnings? The plane was grounded for some time because the pilot refused to take off, and then was refused permission to land twice. That the plane was carrying journalists does make it suspicous, depending on the journalists involved.

[Redleg]

the pilot had asked twice to make an emergency landing at Mehrabad airport, but had been refused because it was busy.

Would that be something like .....
"an engine has failed we need to land".......""we are clearing the runway"
"the engine is now on fire we need to land now"........"the runway is almost clear " ?


So were you present in the control tower now..........~:eek: ~:joker:

[Dâriûsh]

A terrible tragedy. Iran has suffered some dreadful plane crashes in the last few years.

[Tribesman]

So were you present in the control tower now..........
Yes Red , that is why I said that is exactly what happened and those are the precise words used . ~;)

[Redleg]

So were you present in the control tower now..........
Yes Red , that is why I said that is exactly what happened and those are the precise words used . ~;)

Produce the video from being inside the control tower and the black box recording from the aircraft then,...

Wait I will help you - there is no black box...


The deputy commander of the Iranian army, Brig Gen Mohammad Hasan Nami, said Iranian military aircraft were not equipped with the devices

Now care to provide the actual statements from the tower from somewhere else besides the rat trap of your own imagnation..since without providing a source for your comments - what your comment really is, nothing but hearsay or made-up. And I am leaning toward made-up./.

[Tribesman]

Redleg , what the hell are you on about ?????
Have you completely lost it ?

[Redleg]

Redleg , what the hell are you on about ?????
Have you completely lost it ?

Well Mr. Smart Guy - you make statement pretending to know what was stated in the control tower for an accident that took 68 people's lives. So do you have a source for your comments - or is it just made up information attempting to play the wit. ~:rolleyes:

Edit: I suspect I already know the answer - but I will give you the benefit of providing proof of what was stated in the Control Tower to the Pilot if you can come up with a source....

[Tribesman]

Get some facts straight Red before you go off on one .

Would that be something like .....
Would that be something like .....
Would that be something like .....
There you go in triplicate , now where does it say anything about transcripts of statements?
Have you ever heard of an example ? It is an example of how the original articles wording could be used to mean anything .
Iranian media also say the pilot had asked twice to make an emergency landing at Mehrabad airport, but had been refused because it was busy.

Would you like another example .
Would that be something like ........"there is a fire on the plane we need to land" ...."wait a minute as we are busy trying to barricade the runways"......
"We are going to crash and burn please please please let us land we will write good stories for you" ....."crash and die you imperialist crusader lackeys you have fallen for our sinister cunning plot"

Oh and by the way your figure of 68 is way out or do you only count journalists as people now .

[Redleg]

Get some facts straight Red before you go off on one .

Oh I have yet to go off on anything. However it seems that I have jerk your chain. Can't take what you dish out is that it?

This is what happens when you decide to play witty with other peoples ideas - and get upset when someone states

So were you present in the control tower now.......... ~:eek: ~:joker:

and

Well Mr. Smart Guy - you make statement pretending to know what was stated in the control tower for an accident that took 68 people's lives. So do you have a source for your comments - or is it just made up information attempting to play the wit. ~:rolleyes:



I guess in your inablity to take what you dish out you missed the emoticons.

Its been fun - but you are diffently losing your touch ~:joker:

[Redleg]

Emergency declarations are suppose to supercede everything else. To be denied twice permission to land by the airport for a declared emergency - should never happen.

Edit: to fix quote code


Back to topic -

Now what will be informative is how the investigation into the accident goes and what conclusions Iran shares with the world.

[Tribesman]

Oh I have yet to go off on anything.
Red you should change your name , possibley to "Donkey Oaty" as you are not only tilting at windmills and claiming they are knights , you are now tilting at windmills claiming they are knights when there are not even any windmills anywhere . You are definately losing it old boy .
attempting to play the wit What wit ?????any humour in there at all???? wheres the windmills Donkey~;)
Oh I see now , you were refering to and quoting one post and thinking of another like .
Work for religeous nutters Adrian , everyone is a martyr then , journalists included
Unless of course the official media doesn't like you , then you are called spawn of satan or something similar .

Ah I see Donkey , you are confused , have a hug~:grouphug: go on you know you can take it , have another:knuddel: but don't get frisky now ~;)

BTW have you now read the statement from the ATCs , what reason did they give for delaying authorising the emergency landing twice????? Oh the runway wasn't clear , whouda thunkit eh .~:eek:

[Redleg]

Oh I have yet to go off on anything.
Red you should change your name , possibley to "Donkey Oaty" as you are not only tilting at windmills and claiming they are knights , you are now tilting at windmills claiming they are knights when there are not even any windmills anywhere . You are definately losing it old boy .

Weak come back - you wanted to play the wit and it failed. You missed the joke and then decided I am tilting at windmills - LOL



attempting to play the wit What wit ?????any humour in there at all???? wheres the windmills Donkey~;)
Oh I see now , you were refering to and quoting one post and thinking of another like .

Nope all is refering to the same post - again weak come back.



Work for religeous nutters Adrian , everyone is a martyr then , journalists included
Unless of course the official media doesn't like you , then you are called spawn of satan or something similar .

Ah I see Donkey , you are confused , have a hug~:grouphug: go on you know you can take it , have another:knuddel: but don't get frisky now ~;)


Wrong post - poor attempt at misdirection. Everything deals with one post - and that is not the one.



BTW have you now read the statement from the ATCs , what reason did they give for delaying authorising the emergency landing twice????? Oh the runway wasn't clear , whouda thunkit eh .~:eek:

Oh I figured that would be the reason - but it doesn't distract the point of yanking on your chain for pretending to be in the control tower.....~:joker:

[Geoffrey S]

It's not just planes that get hijacked, it would appear.

[Tribesman]

you wanted to play the wit and it failed.
Nope all is refering to the same post
Everything deals with one post
Well donkey could you point out the attempted witticism then as I cannot see it , in your Oaty state you have clearly developed a rather strange eye for comedy .
~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused:

[Redleg]

you wanted to play the wit and it failed.
Nope all is refering to the same post
Everything deals with one post
Well donkey could you point out the attempted witticism then as I cannot see it , in your Oaty state you have clearly developed a rather strange eye for comedy .
~:confused: ~:confused: ~:confused:

Tsk Tsk - rather weak. However I do find it amusing that you have resorted to name calling..

[Tribesman]

However I do find it amusing that you have resorted to name calling..
Yes Red its a rat trap innit ~:rolleyes:
I see your petty insult and raise you one name:duel:

[Redleg]

However I do find it amusing that you have resorted to name calling..
Yes Red its a rat trap innit ~:rolleyes:
I see your petty insult and raise you one name:duel:

Oh I see you think rat trap is a petty insult, you might want to read the context of the comment.

Now care to provide the actual statements from the tower from somewhere else besides the rat trap of your own imagnation

Here let me explain it for you - you trapped yourself with your own imagination...

LOL - kind of like being in the control tower at the airport in Iran isn't....~:joker:

[Tribesman]

Here let me explain it for you - you trapped yourself with your own imagination...

Well it turns out my imagination must be pretty damn accurate then Red , considering the ATCs statements , so your point was ?

Lets see if I understand your thoughts ..."you tried to be "funny"?????? by putting forward a possible scenario , the possible scenario put forward turns out to be fairly accurate ...but ah...but ummm...you are just trying to joke about dead people ."
It seems as if you really have lost it Red:shrug:

[Redleg]

Here let me explain it for you - you trapped yourself with your own imagination...

Well it turns out my imagination must be pretty damn accurate then Red , considering the ATCs statements , so your point was ?

Already stated, you might want to see the post that acknowledge that the investigation into the accident should be informative - which was done before you comments about the ATC statements. Tsk Tsk. I yanked your chain with a joke - because you were yanking someone's else chain with for exambles - and you got upset, rather amusing if you ask me.




Lets see if I understand your thoughts ..."you tried to be "funny"?????? by putting forward a possible scenario , the possible scenario put forward turns out to be fairly accurate ...but ah...but ummm...you are just trying to joke about dead people ."
It seems as if you really have lost it Red:shrug:


Actually you got it wrong - try again.

[Marcellus]

Could we perhaps get back to the thread?

As far as I know, an aeroplane in an emergency should be allowed to land - this aeroplane was denied permission to land twice. Unless the plane crashed very soon after asking permssion to land - giving the airport no time to clear a runway - then the ATC acted wrongly and with fatal consequences.

Also, the lack of a 'black box' in the plane seems very irresponsible of the Iranian government - the reason they are used is to find out what happened in accidents precisely of this sort. Without a black box, the investigation of what happened will now be a lot harder.

My condolences of course go to all those affected by this crash.

[Tribesman]

an aeroplane in an emergency should be allowed to land
An aeroplane cannot land without a clear runway , clearing runways takes time . Engine failure soon after take off leaves very little time .
And as events in Chicago today show , even with an unobtructed runway , permission to land and no emergency , accidents happen and people die .

the lack of a 'black box' in the plane seems very irresponsible of the Iranian government
Military aircraft are not governed by the same regultions as commercial aircraft .
then the ATC acted wrongly and with fatal consequences.

You may be jumping to conclusions there Marcellus , ATCs are responsible for aircraft movement on the apron and in the air , nothing more . If as the case may be the fault was a technical problem that was or should have been spotted and dealt with before the plane took off then the responsibility lies solely with the Captain of the aircraft .
He/she declares that the aircraft is in order and requests permission to move. If he /she is in any doubt whatsoever then he/she is responsible for reporting it and should never ask for permission to take off (unless it is a proving/testing flight to determine any problems , in which case there would be no passengers and the ATC would be forewarned and have extra precautions in place) .

[Marcellus]

an aeroplane in an emergency should be allowed to land
An aeroplane cannot land without a clear runway , clearing runways takes time . Engine failure soon after take off leaves very little time .
And as events in Chicago today show , even with an unobtructed runway , permission to land and no emergency , accidents happen and people die .

As I stated, it is of course possible that there simply wasn't time to clear the runway. We'll have to wait and see.

And the Chicago crash was largely due to adverse weather conditions.



the lack of a 'black box' in the plane seems very irresponsible of the Iranian government
Military aircraft are not governed by the same regultions as commercial aircraft .

They may not have to contain black boxes under regulations, but it is still very unwise for an aeroplane not to contain them - they can provide a great amount of detail when investigating incidents like this.


then the ATC acted wrongly and with fatal consequences.

You may be jumping to conclusions there Marcellus , ATCs are responsible for aircraft movement on the apron and in the air , nothing more . If as the case may be the fault was a technical problem that was or should have been spotted and dealt with before the plane took off then the responsibility lies solely with the Captain of the aircraft .
He/she declares that the aircraft is in order and requests permission to move. If he /she is in any doubt whatsoever then he/she is responsible for reporting it and should never ask for permission to take off (unless it is a proving/testing flight to determine any problems , in which case there would be no passengers and the ATC would be forewarned and have extra precautions in place) .

Well, maybe...

ATC responsibility depends on whether they had enough time to clear the runway or not. We don't really know this yet.

Responsibilty with the ground crew/captain of the aircraft depends on whether they should have realised that there was very likely to have an engine failure. Seeing as there had been problems in the plane beforehand, it seems like it would have been more prudent to delay the flight. However, it is claimed that there was extensive testing on the plane before take off. The safety of the plane will now be harder to tell without a black box.

However, if there were some problems with the plane and the captain did not want to take off, it may be possible that he was forced to by his superiors.

[Tribesman]

And the Chicago crash was largely due to adverse weather conditions.

Marcellus , initial findings show that that it was an engine fault , coupled with the absece of barriers recommended for short runways that do not have the recommended clearway at the runway end .
Weather conditions played little or no role , though thats no surprise as a few inches of snow in Chicago in december is not really adverse or unusual .
edit for spelling

[Marcellus]

And the Chicago crash was largely due to adverse weather conditions.

Marcellus , initial findings show that that it was an engine fault , coupled with the absece of barriers recommended for short runways that do not have the recommended clearway at the runway end .
Weather conditions played little or no role , though thats no surprise as a few inches of snow in Chicago in december is not really adverse or unusual .
edit for spelling

Hmm, according to this CNN article (http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/12/09/chicago.airplane/index.html) the cause of the accident is under review. The article seems to suggest that the condition of the runway (barriers, was it clear, etc.) is a major cause of he crash, and says that in the investigation 'Weather conditions would obviously be a major factor under review'. It does not seem to mention engine problems (indeed it says that the plane recently underwent a routine check).

[Tribesman]

It does not seem to mention engine problems
The engines failed when they put them in reverse leaving only the wheel brakes to slow the aircraft.
But as you notethe cause of the accident is under review
As I did with[I][ initial findings/I]