American Foreign Legion?

[Samurai Waki]

I read an article recently in "soldiers of fortune:Magazine" at Barnes & Nobles (I just saw the headline and was interested, I'm not really a gun toting redneck). But I read the article and the guy who wrote had some really great points on why the US should form their own Foreign Legion.

A. An American Foreign Legion would act almost indentical to their French Counter-Parts. They would consist almost entirely of non-native Americans, who wish to gain citizenship into the country.
As the FFL, the AFL would be the soldiers behind the scene, doing most of the dirty work, fighting in small wars, or wars against irregular forces. Such as Iraq, and Afghanistan. Also, because of their unique status, they won't carry the emotional baggage to war, like our regular soldiers do, because they aren't sons of our country, and won't have contact with relatives in their native homelands. This would be a major advantage, considering how bad the war in Iraq is going because some Americans have a tough time sucking it up, and saying to themselves "This is what war is."
In this way, the USA could have elite troops securing backwater areas, while the American Regular forces concentrated on larger threats.

B. An AFL would be very cost effective. The Author (a former Marine Captain) estimates that it would cost about 1/3 of the price to fund an AFL battalion, compared to that of an American Regular Battalion. But at the same time, be on par with some of America's most elite Regiments, such as Delta Force, 101st Airborne, Green Berets, and the Navy SEALS.
like some American Regiments that have been given the task for quick response, these guys would be an active unit all the time, stationed in certain areas around the globe to be able to respond quicker to an international threat than Regular Forces could.
(Forgot to mention, that although Native Language is encouraged, all orders would be given in English).

C. AFL would be elite trained, just like the FFL. Having several major bases in US territory, and allied territory. A Base in Kuwait would serve as the major deployment ground for all members of the AFL that come from Eastern Europe. They would be trained for counter-insurgency and tank warfare from the Israelis. A Base in Puerto Rico would serve as the main deployment zone for people from Spanish/Latino Countries, they would be trained in Naval Assault operations, as well as trained to fight in the drug wars. Another base would be built in Guam, where people from Asian countries that sought to join would be deployed. They would be taught in Jungle Warfare by Australians/Gurkhas.

D. The AFL wouldn't except just anyone, only the toughest, and smartest people need apply. The standard time of enlistment would be 6 years (just like the FFL). After the six years, if an enlistee is capable of speaking a moderate amount of english, will automatically become a citizen of the United States. Also, they may wish to continue their career in the AFL, or move over into a position with the US Army, or Marine Corps. Any enlistee, would also recieve the standard US Military Benefits package as well.

So what do you guys think?

[doc_bean]

Bull.

Foreigners can join already if they want to. Service guarantees citizenship iirc.
Standards for acceptance are applied, certainly for the more 'elite' units.
I don't see how mercenaries can be more cost efficient than regular soldiers, unless you consider them third world labour, in which case, it's just plain evil.
Training foreign legions to be just as good as the US military might not be such a good idea if there's a chance they'll ever turn against you *cough*Afghanistan*cough*
You already apply a large amount of mercenaries in Iraq, although most of them are US citizens.

I really don't see this as a viable option for the US :san_smiley:

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I believe the U.S. military requires any non-citizen candidate to be eligible to work in the U.S..

American foreign legion? where do I sign up?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Sounds cool. We can use them to clear out minefields the old fasioned way, before minesweepers and detection existed.

"Your orders! Run into that field over there and step on every square inch of soil."
"Aber Herren..."
"Будьте тихи!"
"Gli ordini sono finali"
"Aye sir!"
*lots of explosions"
"Je me rends!"

Note I used an online translator and they are all probably totally differant from what I meant.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Why would America want a foreign legion when it can buy Poles or Bulgarians or, better yet, get British for free, to die in America's pointless little adventures? :san_rolleyes:

[Adrian II]

Why would America want a foreign legion when it can buy Poles or Bulgarians or, better yet, get British for free, to die in America's pointless little adventures? :san_rolleyes:Ouch. :san_lipsrsealed:

[Samurai Waki]

Why would America want a foreign legion when it can buy Poles or Bulgarians or, better yet, get British for free, to die in America's pointless little adventures? :san_rolleyes:

So we can snuff out the French and make it look like we didn't have anything to do with it. :san_wink:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Sounds like a great Idea to me. But isnt this what helped bring down Rome? Having foriegn troops fight their battles .

[Tribesman]

But isnt this what helped bring down Rome? Having foriegn troops fight their battles .
No Rome was brought down by corruption decadence and arrogance of being a superpower and annoying large parts of the world for a long time .

[Gawain of Orkeny]

No Rome was brought down by corruption decadence and arrogance of being a superpower and annoying large parts of the world for a long time .


No it was many things. But this is just another of your thinly veiled attacks on America.

[Lemur]

Isnt this what helped bring down Rome? Having foriegn troops fight their battles .
Well, the notion with a Foreign Legion is that they all become citizens. Rome loved to keep the club exclusive, which got them into a lot of trouble. Not least of which was the Italian wars under Marius, Sulla and their lot. Nobody's talking about a permanent body of non-citizen auxiliaries.

[Lazul]

But isnt this what helped bring down Rome? Having foriegn troops fight their battles .
No Rome was brought down by corruption decadence and arrogance of being a superpower and annoying large parts of the world for a long time .

~:thumb:

.... but anyway, dont you yanks allready employ mercs in Iraq. And also, it sounds rather silly that the 'greatest' nation in the world, the biggest military power, the shining beacon of freedom would need a foreign legion couse the people of the land doesnt like the idea of their own soldiers fighting and dying.

:san_shocked:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Rome loved to keep the club exclusive, which got them into a lot of trouble

Actually if you fought for Rome you could become a citizen. The big problem is that everyone was becoming a Roman. They didnt keep it exclusive and thats what really led to their decline.


but anyway, dont you yanks allready employ mercs in Iraq

There mostly US citizens and are not under the command of the US armed forces nor are they combat troops but glorified security guards.


the biggest military power, the shining beacon of freedom would need a foreign legion couse the people of the land doesnt like the idea of their own soldiers fighting and dying.


Like I said Rome did the same thing. Heck right now the rest of the free world uses us as their foreign legion. The idea of their own soldiers fighting and dying is too repugnant to them so they let us do the fighting for them and then debase us for it.

[bmolsson]

Somebody is running out of cannon fodder in Iraq..... ~;)

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Somebody is running out of cannon fodder in Iraq

Yes the insurgents.:san_laugh:

[teja]

I know personally in the US-forces actually:
1 German citizen (went to the USA with 18 and is now 21)
1 Canadian citizen (old soldiers family, all his brothers are in the Canadian forces but there was no room for him when he applied, so he became a GI)

I don't know if those are exceptions.

[Tribesman]

There mostly US citizens and are not under the command of the US armed forces nor are they combat troops but glorified security guards.

ITT is the only contractor which uses mainly US citizens Gawain (though I had thought Blackwater would have aswell), the others find it far more profitable to recruit from other sources , one source that has recently been tapped is the reruitment of Chilean ex-police commandos from the time of Pinochets rule , which is very nice isn't it .
As to the role of these "glorified security guards" as you put it , could you explain the logic in awarding Dyncorp a contract for training the Iraqi police , considering that in its previous contract for training police it was involved in sex-crimes , torture , abduction and human trafficing .

[Brenus]

“An American Foreign Legion would act almost indentical to their French Counter-Parts. They would consist almost entirely of non-native Americans, who wish to gain citizenship into the country.” Wrong. The Legion is mainly with French citizens. However, the TRADITION is they give-up their Nationality in signing, they choose one French-Spoken alleged country and choose a new identity…
The French Foreign Legionaries received the same salary than the so-called regular army. The only difference is there is no need of a Parliament’s approval to use the Legion in dirty jobs…:san_undecided:

"Your orders! Run into that field over there and step on every square inch of soil."
"Aber Herren..."
"Будьте тихи!"
"Gli ordini sono finali"
"Aye sir!"
*lots of explosions"
"Je me rends!"
The last part should be in German. the French would ask: Pourquoi (why)
:san_cheesy:

[Templar Knight]

Sounds like a great Idea to me. But isnt this what helped bring down Rome? Having foriegn troops fight their battles .

It played a part, especially after the Battle of Adrianople, when the majority of soldiers were foreigners since the manpower shortages in the east could not fill the thinning ranks.

[Kralizec]

Actually if you fought for Rome you could become a citizen. The big problem is that everyone was becoming a Roman. They didnt keep it exclusive and thats what really led to their decline.

Caracella extended citizenship to all in the empire (except native Egyptians and jews), to collect more taxes. If anything, it helped them survive for another 2 centuries.
What lead to their decline was that they increasingly relied on German mercenaries (wich weren't part of the empire, but "federate" tribes). The Romans had for a long time relied on other people's skills to provide them with the necessary cavalry, and they needed more and more to stop barbarian raiding parties on the fringes of the empire.
Gradually, the German warchiefs became the most powerful force in the empire...

[mercian billman]

The only problem I can see is that these "mercenaries" would be getting payed less money to do the same job as US citizens. Obviously if two people are hired by the same employer to do the same job they should be payed the same. I'm neither for or against the idea but the US military already has forces capable of carrying out the tasks mentioned.

[Lemur]

Actually if you fought for Rome you could become a citizen.
Who knew that every auxiliary legion became full citizens? This is entirely new information. I've never encounteded this fact in any history book or any original source anywhere. Oh, wait, that's because it's not true.

The big problem is that everyone was becoming a Roman. They didnt keep it exclusive and thats what really led to their decline.
Who knew that Gawain had pinned down the entire reason for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire? Is that the Western or Eastern Empire you decoded, G? Or have you solved both?

[Adrian II]

Who knew that Gawain had pinned down the entire reason for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire? Is that the Western or Eastern Empire you decoded, G? Or have you solved both?Oh, stop the unhistorical squabbling. What about lead levels in American food, water and wine? :san_tongue:

[Lemur]

We could always use more lead. Builds muscle.

[Kralizec]

Lemurmania: I believe that auxilia troops became Roman citizens upon surviving 25 years of service.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Who knew that Gawain had pinned down the entire reason for the decline and fall of the Roman Empire?

Who knew that Lemurmania would misread me as usual and say I made such a claim. It was one reason not the only one.

[Templar Knight]

Lemurmania: I believe that auxilia troops became Roman citizens upon surviving 25 years of service.

That is indeed correct. Citizenship after 25 years service for auxilia and for Roman legionaries they would receive a plot of land large enough for a pension.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

“An American Foreign Legion would act almost indentical to their French Counter-Parts. They would consist almost entirely of non-native Americans, who wish to gain citizenship into the country.” Wrong. The Legion is mainly with French citizens. However, the TRADITION is they give-up their Nationality in signing, they choose one French-Spoken alleged country and choose a new identity…
The French Foreign Legionaries received the same salary than the so-called regular army. The only difference is there is no need of a Parliament’s approval to use the Legion in dirty jobs…:san_undecided:

"Your orders! Run into that field over there and step on every square inch of soil."
"Aber Herren..."
"Будьте тихи!"
"Gli ordini sono finali"
"Aye sir!"
*lots of explosions"
"Je me rends!"
The last part should be in German. the French would ask: Pourquoi (why)
:san_cheesy:
Other way.

Je me rends?

Warum? Wir sind Freunden Jetz!

Je me rends, anyway.

GAH! ZU PARIS! :san_grin:

[Kralizec]

Back on topic: a foreign legion sounds like the perfect way of dealing with rejected immigrants. They'd get the choice to either:

A) be forced to leave (lot's will chose to remain illegally if faced with this)
B) serve in the nation's foreign legion for several years, then receive citizenship

The good part is that after serving in this legion, they'd know the language of the country and know the value of rules and order. You can hardly ask for a better way to integrate an immigrant in your society.
Plus, immigrants who don't have legitimate reasons to apply for asylum (risk of persecution in their native country, etc) can get to earn their right to stay. If they really want to come here, they'll also be willing to do something for it.

Seems like a win-win situation for both.

[doc_bean]

Back on topic: a foreign legion sounds like the perfect way of dealing with rejected immigrants.

It'd be better to put them with the actual US troops then.

O wait, that already happens with foreigners who join :san_rolleyes:

[el_slapper]

I don't get the price argument. It costs sounds of money to train elite guys.....

....or they'll recruit already trained soldiers in Eastern Europe?????

[yesdachi]

The only problem I can see is that these "mercenaries" would be getting payed less money to do the same job as US citizens. Obviously if two people are hired by the same employer to do the same job they should be payed the same. I'm neither for or against the idea but the US military already has forces capable of carrying out the tasks mentioned.
So by this logic should the manufacturing jobs in China and other outsource countries be paid the same as their counterparts in the US? Pay comes from supply and demand, I an not too keen on the idea of an American Foreign Legion, but not because of the pay difference.



...Heck right now the rest of the free world uses us as their foreign legion. The idea of their own soldiers fighting and dying is too repugnant to them so they let us do the fighting for them and then debase us for it.
I find this statement very true. If some other countries would take care of themselves we (not just the US) wouldn’t always have to intervene.:san_tongue:

[Samurai Waki]

I don't get the price argument. It costs sounds of money to train elite guys.....

....or they'll recruit already trained soldiers in Eastern Europe?????

I'm sure Veteran's of former eastern block militaries would be accepted and would be in a better position to gain rank than those who don't have previous military expirience. After all, most NCOs would probably be foreigners as well.

The Price to Train a Battalion of AFL might be a little more spendy than your average American Infantry Battalion, but on the other hand the price to maintain a battalion would be minimal compared to the price to maintain a fully battle ready American Regular Military Battalion. Because, essentially these guys would be trained to be able to support themselves, and wouldn't be involved in scenario's involving heavy support, and hundreds of thousands of soldiers. Unless of course, a major military threat were close enough to affect both the AFL and the US Regular Forces.

Also as far as letting these men to even join, I'm sure there would have to be an intense psychiatric evaluations, so that we knew that people who wanted to join would be legit. You still run the course of getting a rogue soldier, but Lee Harvey Oswald was an American Soldier, and a former Marine Sniper.