The United Nations: Great peacekeeping organization or horrible failure?

[Kaiser of Arabia]

So, time for a good old UN bashing topic. Let's have a good time with this one, yeah?

Since it's formation in 1948, the United Nations has embarked on 56 peacekeeping missions in 32 nations. The cost, 30 billion dollars, has been heavily paid for by the United States, approx. 32% of these funds come directly from the US taxpayer. These missions have cost the lives of approximatly 2,000 peacekeepers, 60 of which were Americans. However, dispite these losses, the UN has not even been able to prevent the atrocities they have sought to. For exampe, the United Nations sat idly by as almost 800,000 Rwandans were hacked to death in Rwanda (“ UN Admits Failure in Rwanda,” BBC News Online, December 16, 1999.). Another example is in Eritrea, the presence of peacekeepers has failed to end a conflict that has so far claimed 70,000 lives. Directly and indirectly, the UN is responsible for the deaths of over 1 million civilians worldwide.

The UN is influence by nations that do not share American/Western values on Freedom and tolerance, and has a heavily anti-American bias in it's rulings. For example, the overt anti-Americanism in the UN Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) led the U.S. to withdraw its membership for twenty years, and the Senate Appropriations Committee has recommended that U.S. funding for UNESCO ($71.4 million) be withheld until the committee purges itself of this bias. Also, the US has been kicked off of the UN Human Rights commission, and replaced by Libya, an Islamic dictatorship with a history of human rights abuse. The Commission’s membership also includes Sudan, which practices human slavery; Cuba, which has been ranked by Human Rights Watch as one of the world’s most repressive regimes; and Zimbabwe, which practices openly racist policies and political repression.

In the months since it's removal from these committes, the US was forced by the UN to sit through a lecture on it's human rights abuses in Iraq and at home, dispite the fact that it ignores the abuses in the Sudan and Rwanda, to the point that the US delegation has walked out of the meeting in protest. One recent UN delegation called for the US to remove firearms ownership from it's constitution, and another singles out the US as the nation that should pay the most reparations for slavery (dispite the Fact that it was the Turks who origionally enslaved Africans, and the English, French, Spanish, and Portugese that brought them to America).

The UN is also anti-Free Market, and a major voice for Global Weath Redistribution. Its plan for accomplishing this includes the creation of a global tax commission and international income tax, which would be used to promote income equality between rich and poor member states. The General Secretariat has also called for worldwide tax harmonization, which would require pro-growth countries like the U.S., UK, and Australia to raise their tax rates to match the higher levels in social market states like France and Germany.

The UN also faces a series of structural flaws. Cheif among them is that oppresive dictatorships get an equal voice as free nations. For example, why should Sudan, a nation with a history of ethnic cleansing and human rights abuse, get the same say as Austria? Or why should Mynamar, a brutal military dictatorship, get the same rights as the United States? In this manner, it not only hinders the spread of Democracy but also promotes totalitarianism and opressive regimes.

A second problem with the UN system is the ease and frequency with which it is ignored by the members of the Security Council, who use it in order to hold back American influence and spread its own.. Russia, for example, has repeatedly used the UN to block U.S. initiatives in the Balkans and Iraq, while ignoring protests against its own policies in Chechnya. China has used the UN as a tool to halt US peacekeeping missions in Macedonia and Kosovo. At the same time, Beijing undertook its own unilateralist invasion of Tibet and has pledged to retake Taiwan by force without any regard for the UN’s objections. And then there is France – the country that led the UN crusade against the U.S. in the Iraq War. Since 1960, France has conducted 48 separate military interventions in Africa – very few of which had Security Council approval.

Then, there is the corruption that dominates the United Nations. ike so many public sector enterprises, the UN is marked by “routine fraud, waste, and abuse of resources.

For decades, UN budgetary procedures have been “covered by a shroud of obfuscation and secrecy,” without any avenue for U.S. taxpayer oversight, dispite the fact that the US pays a great deal of the UN's funding. For more than 20 years, the committee that controls the budget (the Advisory Committee on Administrative and Budgetary Questions) has been run by Conrad Mselle – a Tanzanian who has no formal training in finance, convenes committee meetings behind closed doors, and routinely diverts large sums of money into his own discretionary accounts.

Predictably, the UN’s lack of accountability leads to waste – some of which is an unintentional by-product of bureaucratic inefficiency and some of which is deliberately generated for the profit of UN leaders. An independent inspector found examples of waste and abuse in multiple UN offices. For example, 10 million dollars was embezzled from the UN Childrens Fund. 4 million embezzled from UN offices in Mogadishu.

This is in addition to the Oil-for-Food scandal. Ten percent of the program’s funds – about $10 billion – went directly into the personal bank accounts of Saddam Hussein and his family. Also three high-ranking UN officials – including undersecretary Benon Sevanake – accepted multi-million-dollar bribes from the Iraqi government.

Another problem with the UN is incompetant management. For example, there is no way to determine if military force should be used to secure stability in a nation. This leads to the UN sending troops to countries like Georgia, where they aren't needed, and ignoring nations like the Sudan, where they are. Because the UN rewards countries for contributions to peacekeeping ($1,000 per soldier per month + costs of the mission) but lacks a s ystem for verifying the credentials of troops, countries often send second-rank personnel. For example, in 1993 the government of Bulgaria – starved for hard currency – cut a deal with inmates from prisons and psychiatric wards, offering them pardons if they participated as peacekeepers on a UN mission to Cambodia. Hundreds of mental health inmates put on uniforms, were shipped to Cambodia, and went on a six-month rampage across the country. The Bulgarian government got $1,000 a head, the inmates got their freedom, and Cambodia got bedlam.

During the same mission in Cambodia, peacekeepers became famous for producing a drug/alcohol cocktail called the “Space Shuttle” – a combination of marijuana, cocaine, and liquor that was distilled over a six-week period and sold to the local populace. On a mission in Somalia, the peacekeeping forces operated a weekend brothel at a local villa and used girls from the nearby refugee camp to make pornographic videos.

There are many more reasons that I shall not get into, but I beleive the UN is the worst idea a human has ever had. Since it's foundation, the world has seen more turmoil than ever before, and instead of trying to prevent it, the UN adds to it.

[Lemur]

I beleive the UN is the worst idea a human has ever had.
That's some stiff competition right there. What about the Russian Dog Mine? The "sticky" grenade? Spandex pantsuits? The Teletubbies? I mean, sure, the U.N. is a mess, but "worst idea ever"? That's going to take some proving.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

That's some stiff competition right there. What about the Russian Dog Mine? The "sticky" grenade? Spandex pantsuits? The Teletubbies? I mean, sure, the U.N. is a mess, but "worst idea ever"? That's going to take some proving.
Heh, it's close, UN beats it because it takes up valuable New York land that I could build projects on. :san_cry:

[Crazed Rabbit]

You could turn off the TV when teletubbies came on, but you can't stop paying the UN if our congressmen don't.

Very nice by the way, Kaiser.

Crazed Rabbit

[Shaka_Khan]

What about Korea and the first Persian Gulf War?

[Lemur]

Don't all of our beloved Übercons have their own special secret treehouse where they can UN-bash and so forth to their hearts' content? Where they can engage in mutual outrage without bothering the neighbors?

I believe the U.N. is a wreck, but I don't need to hear it from the Rush Limbaugh crew. Don't you lads have secret decorder rings to play with?

[KafirChobee]

The purpose of the UN .... is as it has always been (except when the US has imposed its own military demands upon it - 56 times). That is, as a platform for debate amongst the nations of the Earth to resolve issues of war in a peaceful manner.

Unfortunatley, since we (USA) can't own it out right .... or intimidate enough of the nations ... or buy all of them off from time to time ... or always seem benevolent to most of them. Then we must downgrade the premise for, exitance of, and mission for its creation. We must disavow any previous hperbole of those men with the courage to create an organization that allows discussion that might be contrary to our political possition.

God forbid, that someone should disagree with us. That be bad people - eh?

The entire purpose of the UN is to allow open discussion in the world community about the issues of the day.

That, we (the USA) seem to be the bad guy more often than naught is simply a matter of symantics. We are. We are, because we more often than not attempt to bull y others into line with threats of economic reprisals, etc. We have done this for +50 years, and the world has heard it all before. Plus, they know we need them now more than they need us (if only someone could tell the president that his corporate buddys are all international and don't give a rats tail about made in USA or made in China).

Still, I comprehend your idea - Kaiser. Just disavow your understanding of the topic.

[JAG]

wehay another test for the realists and neo-realists to prove their disgusting ideas are more disgusting than others. What you people should really take into accoutn is not the problems with the UN but the benefits it has brought about alongside other idealist ideas.

[Tribesman]

except when the US has imposed its own military demands upon it
For balance Kafir you should note that all 5 permanent members abuse their position .
Or you do the same as Kaiser with his blaming others but ignoring the US
A second problem with the UN system is the ease and frequency with which it is ignored by the members of the Security Council, who use it in order to hold back American influence and spread its own.. Russia, for example, has repeatedly used the UN to block U.S. initiatives in the Balkans and Iraq, while ignoring protests against its own policies in Chechnya. China has used the UN as a tool to halt US peacekeeping missions in Macedonia and Kosovo. At the same time, Beijing undertook its own unilateralist invasion of Tibet and has pledged to retake Taiwan by force without any regard for the UN’s objections. And then there is France – the country that led the UN crusade against the U.S. in the Iraq War. Since 1960, France has conducted 48 separate military interventions in Africa – very few of which had Security Council approval.
.
Now then Capo , where did you get that article you posted from ?~;)

[Ser Clegane]

Now then Capo , where did you get that article you posted from ?~;)

Indeed - I found it under the following link:
http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2004/LINKS/neg/

Kaiser, I would appreciate if you would provide a link to the original source if you decide to copy and paste material such as your starting post (the absolute minimum would be to point out that you have not written the text yourself).

[Lazul]

Well I have way more respect for the UN then the USA... but that doesnt say very much now that I think about it.
The USA can just veto themselfs crazy in the UN... and you have your allies with your side in the UN to... Isreal... and Micronesia :san_laugh:

oh well... im go drink some glögg... toodle

[Tribesman]

Indeed
Well it was a bit obvious , it isn't in Capos style and makes some fundamentally mistaken assumptions that he would not have invented himself . Little thing like Turks inventing slavery or Austria not having ethnic cleansing or human rights abuse in its history .

[Slyspy]

Claiming that the UN is responsible for all those deaths is a little over the top. The thing with many American detractors of the UN is that they fail to understand its collective nature. They believe that when the UN fails it is due to the UN as an super-national organisation. This is not true. When the UN fails it is the fault of the member countries. Often this failure can be traced to the lack of will on the part of the more powerful and influential nations. The UN is only as good as the sum of its parts will let it be.

[Marcellus]

Directly and indirectly, the UN is responsible for the deaths of over 1 million civilians worldwide.

The UN is in no way 'responsible' for the deaths - they failed to protect the people but did not help the killers.



The UN also faces a series of structural flaws. Cheif among them is that oppresive dictatorships get an equal voice as free nations. For example, why should Sudan, a nation with a history of ethnic cleansing and human rights abuse, get the same say as Austria? Or why should Mynamar, a brutal military dictatorship, get the same rights as the United States? In this manner, it not only hinders the spread of Democracy but also promotes totalitarianism and opressive regimes.


It's called democracy. Who exactly would decide who is 'worthy' of being represented?

[Adrian II]

The sole redeeming fact of this entire text is that Kaiser loves Tchaikovsky.

But he doesn't mention Tchaikovsky, I hear you say. That's right. Nor should he, lest he messes that subject up as well.

[Meneldil]

AdrianII, Tribesman, if you don't stop to make fun of conservatives, they'll all leave and join their hidden secret conservative forum, and you'll have nothing to laught at :san_rolleyes:

[Adrian II]

AdrianII, Tribesman, if you don't stop to make fun of conservatives, they'll all leave and join their hidden secret conservative forum, and you'll have nothing to laught at :san_rolleyes:We'll always have you, Meneldil. :san_grin:

[Tribesman]

Meneldil , I will laugh just as easily at people from the left , the conservatives are just so readily available at the moment and leave themselves so open to it .

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Indeed - I found it under the following link:
http://www.debate-central.org/topics/2004/LINKS/neg/

Kaiser, I would appreciate if you would provide a link to the original source if you decide to copy and paste material such as your starting post (the absolute minimum would be to point out that you have not written the text yourself).
Main source right there. Took some from a few other sources, but by and large, that's where I got most of it from.

But I *did* write what I posted, just cut and pasted a few statistics (like all of them) here and there :san_grin:

And the turks didn't invent slavery, they invented *modern* slavery. If your going to cite me in your bashes, get me right, yeah?

I mean, seriously.

Of course, if you can give me one good thing the UN has ever done, you get a cookie.

[Tribesman]

And the turks didn't invent slavery, they invented *modern* slavery. If your going to cite me in your bashes, get me right, yeah?

OK then Capo for accuracies sake ....
dispite the Fact that it was the Turks who origionally enslaved Africans
So when did Turks form a link in the Golden triangle ?:san_grin:

[The_Doctor]

Of course, if you can give me one good thing the UN has ever done, you get a cookie.

The WHO (World Health Organisation), a part of the UN helped to wiped out smallpoxs.

[Adrian II]

And the turks didn't invent slavery, they invented *modern* slavery. If your going to cite me in your bashes, get me right, yeah?'Turks' was the nickname for the (mostly) Arab pirates on the North African coast, also known as 'Barbary Pirates'.

However, the episode you mention (around 1500) was when the Ottoman Empire took over the maritime slave trade from the Genoese and Venetian slave traders. Oh, and from the Roman slave traders of course, who had acted on instructions from various Popes to enslave entire regions and towns, including Florence.

But on Tchaikovsky you haven't made a single mistake yet. :bow:

[The_Emperor]

The UN is not a peacekeeping organisation but a Diplomatic forum. It operates at its worst when it tries to be something it isn't.

It was used by the USA and the USSR as a stage for the intrigue of the cold war... Now days though America sees it as being a restraining force on its global influence, hence the "go it alone" line adopted during Iraq by the US and UK Governments.

One thing i do agree upon is it needs major reform in its structure.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Adrian, you make it sound like Christians had a monopoly on maritime slavery in the middle-ages.

They didn't.

[Adrian II]

Adrian, you make it sound like Christians had a monopoly on maritime slavery in the middle-ages.

They didn't.Nobody had a monopoly. No Sir.

[Crazed Rabbit]

AdrianII, Tribesman, if you don't stop to make fun of conservatives, they'll all leave and join their hidden secret conservative forum, and you'll have nothing to laught at

What? Where is this secret Shangri-La? ~:confused:

Anyway, here's a breakdown of the good the UN has done:
Good: Smallpox eradication

Bad: Anti-Western
Pro-Global government
Anti-Soveriegnty
Anti-Israel
Anti-America
Indulges Corrupt Dictators
Corrupt
Human rights council
Anti-Freedom
Etc., etc.

Crazed Rabbit

[LeftEyeNine]

Kaiser, you have serious, dried-mud-stuck problems with Turks. I offer you to start writing proper nouns with capital letters like "T". If you expect any contribution, that needs at least a pinch of respect - despite the fact that you already claimed this topic about "bashing".

UN is like uniting all plants in order to maintain the peace & love kingdom on earth. No use at all. They watched Bosnians getting torn apart.

'Nuff contribution for such another thread that reveals another thing about Turks. Did you also know that we enslaved some Martians and planted them as spies in USA to twaddle around ?

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

LEN: you people are evil.....surely the Martians are the most PC-ly protected people around, they are so alien they are aliens, they are of a naturally unusual appearance (green etc.), of unknown sexuality and undoubtedly the smallest minority on Earth.

Oh, I'm so angry at you lot now, I'll probably have to go on a kebab boycott.

[LeftEyeNine]

Kebabs ? Aah, genocided cows.. Vulgarity.. Pure and utter Vulgarity..

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

are there no lambs left that you have had to move onto cows?!

[Tribesman]

Anyway whats with all this namby pamby liberal rubbish against slavery? Slavery is good , slavery is right , it says so in the bible .

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

what???
the abolitionists went against the Bible?

Scandalous!!!!!!!!!

[Tribesman]

Scandalous!!!!!!!!!
Well look at a picture of John Brown , he has really mad eyes , definately a sign that he is in league with Beelzebub , that big beard is just part of his taliban disguise to fool the true believers .

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

No, big beards are just an indication of religious conviction.

or membership of the Dubliners...

[LeftEyeNine]

are there no lambs left that you have had to move onto cows?!

Heh, mate, this chitchat can go on eternally but I think we should stop derailing :san_wink:

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

true, you probably have some slaving to do whilst the UN turns a blind eye (re-railed I hope).

[Tribesman]

but I think we should stop derailing
Why , whats the railing going to do if we don't stop it , its only sitting there marking the boundry . It is no threat unless you jump on it or get your head stuck in it .

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

this a UN thread, we should keep it on track and unprejudiced(:san_grin: ), just like the UN, that's why we are rerailing.

Appearances and all that.

We'll throw some aid at you in the hope of you not derailing us.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Kaiser, you have serious, dried-mud-stuck problems with Turks. I offer you to start writing proper nouns with capital letters like "T". If you expect any contribution, that needs at least a pinch of respect - despite the fact that you already claimed this topic about "bashing".

UN is like uniting all plants in order to maintain the peace & love kingdom on earth. No use at all. They watched Bosnians getting torn apart.

'Nuff contribution for such another thread that reveals another thing about Turks. Did you also know that we enslaved some Martians and planted them as spies in USA to twaddle around ?
You can't deny that in your past, Turkey has done some horrible, horrible things, as I won't deny that in the past, the US, Germany, Italy, and hell, even Austria has done some horrible horrible things. My main problem with the Turks is, unlike Germany/Italy/Austria, they refuse to admit to it. Instead, they open up Turkish food joints in Germany like Ali Babbas that has very good food, but nontheless, refuses to admit to their past.

The US kept slavery for way to long, all nations did, but didn't we spill enough blood over it? Why should we pay more than the European nations who brought them here, or nations like North Korea and Sudan that still uses slaves?

Oh, and dude who said heath thing, here's a cookie. Sugar cookie, my favorite. Enjoy.

Still, that's one good for 104890184872978489198547E^5982374837 bad. And that's not that much of an exaggeration.

[LeftEyeNine]

You can't deny that in your past, Turkey has done some horrible, horrible things,

Horrible, horrible slavery ? You remember that in this topic you brought up the invention of the idea that claims Turks starting the slavery, right ? You must admit that you sometimes make horrible, horrible mistakes.

P.S. One more thing, it's just annoying to drive in Turkish food stuff to balance your horrible, horrible baseless accusations. That's not a kid fight after all. Your whole post looks a lot better without that "Turkish food is good" BS.

[bmolsson]

I think UN has done a great job despite the fact that its just a compromise between a bunch of self righteous states who don't want anything else than oppose them selves upon the rest of the world...... ~;)

[Kaiser of Arabia]

P.S. One more thing, it's just annoying to drive in Turkish food stuff to balance your horrible, horrible baseless accusations. That's not a kid fight after all. Your whole post looks a lot better without that "Turkish food is good" BS.
Well, dispite your murder of countless innocent civilians, maybe the Ottomans rape of Eastern Europe was just perfectly fine, eh?

Oh, and I figure, if I'm going to bash a nation, I have to say something nice. And honestly, not that many things when it comes to Turkey. Most of the people are nice, and they have nice food.

EDIT: Don't give me any of your non-documentation crap either.
http://www.hellenicgenocide.org/index.html
http://www.greece.org/genocide/
http://www.diamandagalas.com/defixiones/BlackSeptember.htm
http://www.armenian-genocide.org/
http://www.theforgotten.org/intro.html
http://www.cilicia.com/armo10.html
http://www.umd.umich.edu/dept/armenian/facts/genocide.html
http://www.aua.net/assyrian_genocide.htm
http://members.fortunecity.com/fstav1/assyria/assyrians_1915.html
http://aanf.org/America/assyrians/assyrian_christian.htm

[LeftEyeNine]

You got your answer times and times in a documented way. I remember no replies after I posted all answers to your "Favorite Links" collection.

I see no reason to frustrate you with the truth. Because I have over and over proved out that things are not the way you are told by liars. Have fun with your links, bookmark this (http://www.lies.com/), enthusiastic boy :san_smiley:

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Before more munitions are discharged, let me just put up my two cents.

Some have said that the UN is for discussing stuff peacefully without going to war. Has anyone read the UN charter?

First sentance of the charter, Chapter 1:


To maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and for the suppression of acts of aggression or other breaches of the peace.

Click here. Chapters can be referenced in the leftmost panel. (http://www.un.org/aboutun/charter/)

How does one remove a threat to the peace, like say, Iran? Certainly not by being nice and nambly-pambly. At some point, after reasoned debate, if a nonviolent solution cannot be found, force becomes necessary.

Back to battle!

:san_angry:




EDITED to sound less jerk-like

[Kaiser of Arabia]

You got your answer times and times in a documented way. I remember no replies after I posted all answers to your "Favorite Links" collection.

I see no reason to frustrate you with the truth. Because I have over and over proved out that things are not the way you are told by liars. Have fun with your links, bookmark this (http://www.lies.com/), enthusiastic boy :san_smiley:
If anyone is the liar, it is you and all your countrymen. Most other nations live with the guilt of their crimes for generations after it happened, your nation, on the other hand, pretends it never happened. Disgusting, if you ask me.

Ok, genious, where did all the Macedonian and Anatolian greeks go?

[LeftEyeNine]

Before Kaiser is attacked again, let me just put up my two cents.
...
Please go back to fighting Kaiser.

I have to remind you that I have the right -as being a member of this forum and through natural consequence of being a member of a forum- to appeal some idea. You sound provocation, please stop that.


Ok, genious, where did all the Macedonian and Anatolian greeks go?

They died - like anyone else did in medieval times.


If anyone is the liar, it is you and all your countrymen. Most other nations live with the guilt of their crimes for generations after it happened, your nation, on the other hand, pretends it never happened. Disgusting, if you ask me.

Ahem ! You're interacting with me - not my all countrymen. I ban you from such a generalisation although you do not hesitate to do it usually. May you keep on "playing" it only with me.

Briefly, Greek genocide never happened - distinguish "war" and "systematic ethnic cleansing", Armenian genocide was the attack phase of a conflict that dismisses it from being a "genocide" -distinguish "war" and "systematic ethnic cleansing" for the second time. I do not even take Assyrian stuff into consideration that it's just a brand new invention of anti-Turk-o-maniacs and anti-Turk-o-philiacs.

This topic is about UN, Turks did not invent the slavery, you are like a Matrix Ragdoll that tries to dodge his false claims and drive the focus to "Genocide stuff" everytime something about Turks is mentioned and when you feel "naked".

If I were a Netherlands Antillean member of The Org, I would swear to both of us so hard since this neverending debate is overly repeated and no rational outcome is ever gathered. This is getting boring and I'm pretty sick with being involved in the same-scene fights where people believe what they want to.

Now let my way out of this topic.:san_angry:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I have to remind you that I have the right -as being a member of this forum and through natural consequence of being a member of a forum- to appeal some idea. You sound provocation, please stop that.



They died - like anyone else did in medieval times.



Ahem ! You're interacting with me - not my all countrymen. I ban you from such a generalisation although you do not hesitate to do it usually. May you keep on "playing" it only with me.

Briefly, Greek genocide never happened - distinguish "war" and "systematic ethnic cleansing", Armenian genocide was the attack phase of a conflict that dismisses it from being a "genocide" -distinguish "war" and "systematic ethnic cleansing" for the second time. I do not even take Assyrian stuff into consideration that it's just a brand new invention of anti-Turk-o-maniacs and anti-Turk-o-philiacs.

This topic is about UN, Turks did not invent the slavery, you are like a Matrix Ragdoll that tries to dodge his false claims and drive the focus to "Genocide stuff" everytime something about Turks is mentioned and when you feel "naked".

If I were a Netherlands Antillean member of The Org, I would swear to both of us so hard since this neverending debate is overly repeated and no rational outcome is ever gathered. This is getting boring and I'm pretty sick with being involved in the same-scene fights where people believe what they want to.

Now let my way out of this topic.:san_angry:

The holocost was part of a war, does that mean it wasn't a genocide?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

LEN - I never said your verbal broadsides with Kaiser were wrong or unfounded - really, I have no comment on that exchange.

I apologize for sounding defensive on Kaiser's behalf. :san_lipsrsealed:

EDIT: I changed my previous post to reflect my non-aggression towards you.

[Redleg]

My only thoughts concerning the United Nations that is revelant for this thread comes from another thread.

The United Nations has failed in its responsiblities and its accountablity for the little authority it has - and has marginalized itself by its own inaction.

[LeftEyeNine]

The holocost was part of a war, does that mean it wasn't a genocide?

It was a systematic cleansing.

We fought against the Greeks (or Byzantinians) over these lands, you remember who were living once in Asia Minor and who came from Middle Asia for invasion ?

Armenians killed 518.000 Turks in total in the Eastern Anatolia, their murder (counts around 400.000), while migration to Syria was obliged, was an act of revenge. Ever wondered why they were obliged to move ?

But Jews never attacked or invaded Germany in an organized and united way, right?

"Distinguish" means, put this here and put that apart.

P.S. AlexPG, I bow before your sensitivity. You may of course defend another member's ideas. I just perceived yours being provocative. Though I really tried to sound fine, sorry if I sounded any harsh while warning you ~:)

[Kaiser of Arabia]

It was a systematic cleansing.

We fought against the Greeks (or Byzantinians) over these lands, you remember who were living once in Asia Minor and who came from Middle Asia for invasion ?

Armenians killed 518.000 Turks in total in the Eastern Anatolia, their murder (counts around 400.000), while migration to Syria was obliged, was an act of revenge. Ever wondered why they were obliged to move ?

But Jews never attacked or invaded Germany in an organized and united way, right?

"Distinguish" means, put this here and put that apart.

P.S. AlexPG, I bow before your sensitivity. You may of course defend another member's ideas. I just perceived yours being provocative. Though I really tried to sound fine, sorry if I sounded any harsh while warning you ~:)
Uh, the Byzantines lived in Aetolia first, Turks come from the area around Persia AFAIK. You moved in, and since you took a grand total of 100 casualties fighting them, murdered over a million of them. Good job!

[Mongoose]

Why are you arguing over what was done 1000+ years ago? why should the actions of your long gone relatives cause YOU any guilt? I can understand talking about what was done 50, maybe 100 years ago, but the middles ages???

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Why are you arguing over what was done 1000+ years ago? why should the actions of your long gone relatives cause YOU any guilt? I can understand talking about what was done 50, maybe 100 years ago, but the middles ages???
Hellenic and Armenian was 1895-1955 approx.

[LeftEyeNine]

Uh, the Byzantines lived in Aetolia first, Turks come from the area around Persia AFAIK. You moved in, and since you took a grand total of 100 casualties fighting them, murdered over a million of them. Good job!

Ok boy ok. I see no way to praise our warrior qualities - that means we fight well in "war"s.

I talked about the total route Turks followed until they reached their last and the ever homeland Anatolia. Those who came from around Persia were from Middle Asia.

P.S. Nice calculator of yours ~;)

[LeftEyeNine]

Hellenic and Armenian was 1895-1955 approx.

No that was 1955-2005. We'll try to continue for another 50 years.

*Slashes..Blood spills all over place..*

P.S. mongoose, i'm sick and tired of it as well.

P.S.S. That describes a lot. I just saw it in Zanderpants sig.

"Tell a lie enough times, and it becomes truth."
~Joseph Goebbels

[Kaiser of Arabia]

P.S. mongoose, i'm sick and tired of it as well.

Don't start something you cannot finish, then.

[Mongoose]

Hellenic and Armenian was 1895-1955 approx.

But weren't you just talking about the byzantines in that last post? My point being that it dsoen't really matter who lived there years ago. Same goes for the native americans, IMO...

[Kaiser of Arabia]

But weren't you just talking about the byzantines in that last post? My point being that it dsoen't really matter who lived there years ago. Same goes for the native americans, IMO...
He said Turks lived there before the Greeks. The greeks lived their since anceint times untill just recently when they were murdered and forced out.

[Mongoose]

KOA:

I didn't take any side in this argument. People can't break me if i don't have a spine. :hide: I just stated that debates on historical events don't really have any place in this thread*. Now, if you'll excuse me, i have to go to sleep.........:sleep:


*Looking back, I'm not sure that it was a such a good arguement now. i semed like such a good idea in my head.....

[Byzantine Prince]

*Slashes..Blood spills all over place..*
HA! I knew you couldn't resist. And now I have written proof. :san_tongue:

[Samurai Waki]

A Little Slavery here and a little Genocide there never hurt anyone:san_tongue:

[LeftEyeNine]

Don't start something you cannot finish, then.

Still ? Aaaahh..


He said Turks lived there before the Greeks. The greeks lived their since anceint times untill just recently when they were murdered and forced out.

?!!

Kaiser, when you are low on glycose and oxygen, your brain's perception and interpretion power decreases by multiple times.. Now do this for me, count this finished, get a tight sleep, have a good breakfast (or whatever the timezone over there is about), re-read what I said here.. And maybe even you'd like to re-organize your favorite links ? ~:)

Finally, UN please..

[KukriKhan]

What we have here is not a debate, but a debacle.

I'm absolutely certain that the question "The UN: Good or Bad?" will be revisited in another thread.

Our thanks to the posters who tried valiently to keep the topic on-course. :bow:

Topic closed.