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LeftEyeNine
12-15-2005, 04:23
WASHINGTON -President Bush said Wednesday the responsibility for invading Iraq based in part on faulty weapons intelligence rested solely with him, taking on the issue in his most direct and personal terms in the 1,000-plus days since the war's first shots.

"It is true that much of the intelligence turned out to be wrong," Bush said. "As president, I'm responsible for the decision to go into Iraq."
The president's mea culpa was accompanied by a robust defense of the divisive war.

"Saddam was a threat — and the American people and the world is better off because he is no longer in power," Bush declared, as he has before.
Democrats were not moved by Bush's speech, the last of four designed to boost his credibility on the war and the public's backing for it.
"There was no reason for America to go to war when we did, the way we did, and for the false reasons we were given," said Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass.

Bush offered few qualms about the failure to find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. He said foreign intelligence agencies — including several for governments who didn't back his decision to invade — also believed before the war that Saddam Hussein possessed them. And he said his administration has begun making changes to the U.S. intelligence apparatus to head off future errors.
The president also contended the Iraqi president had intended to restart weapons programs.
As in the past, Bush acknowledged no regrets about launching the war despite the problems with his initial justification. He revisited a long list of other previously cited reasons, including Iraqi violations of a no-fly zone in its airspace, Saddam's invasion of Kuwait a decade earlier and Iraq's defiance of United Nations resolutions.
"My decision to remove Saddam Hussein was the right decision," the president said to polite applause from his audience at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, a nonpartisan forum for the study of world affairs.
Bush has repeatedly noted that the decision to go to war was his responsibility. And he has acknowledged for more than a year that most of the intelligence behind the claims of Saddam's weapons programs turned out to be faulty. But he has never linked the two so clearly and so personally.
On the eve of parliamentary elections in Iraq, Bush's speech was meant to wrap up an aggressive push-back against war critics with an overarching explanation, nearly three years later, of why he went into Iraq and why he believes U.S. troops must remain there.
Bush predicted a higher turnout than in earlier balloting of Iraq's minority Sunni Arabs in Thursday's voting, which will establish Iraq's first permanent, democratically elected government. The Sunnis provide the backbone of the insurgency and largely shunned Jan. 30 elections for an interim Parliament that wrote the nation's constitution. Their participation was higher in the October election to adopt the constitution.
But the president also said that Americans shouldn't hope for violence to wane, and shouldn't even expect to know results before early January.
"We can ... expect that the elections will be followed by days of uncertainty," he said. "It's going to take awhile."
Wednesday's remarks followed a pattern of more frank talk from Bush on Iraq. Each installment in the recent round of Iraq speeches, which began last month at the Naval Academy, has included descriptions of fixes for early mistakes and sober assessments of remaining challenges.
That reflects the majority of Americans who, confronted with daily doses of bad news and rising death counts in Iraq, disapprove of Bush's policies there and question the outlook for victory. For instance, a new poll by the Pew Research Center for the People & the Press found that most people see progress in areas such as establishing democracy and training Iraqi security forces but are split on whether the United States is defeating the insurgents.

Answering critics who have said he's offered no definition of victory in Iraq, Bush offered a succinct summation.
"Victory will be achieved by meeting certain objectives: when the terrorists and Saddamists can no longer threaten Iraq's democracy, when the Iraqi security forces can protect their own people and when Iraq is not a safe haven for terrorists to plot attacks against our country," he said. "These objectives, not timetables set by politicians in Washington, will drive our force levels in Iraq."
Still, some said they had hoped to hear more specific benchmarks.
"The American public, the Iraqi people and our brave troops still don't have any clarity about the U.S. military mission in Iraq," said Sen. Russ Feingold, D-Wis.
The president's approach received a warmer welcome from several House Democrats whom Bush hosted at the White House for a top-level Iraq briefing before his speech. "There was a dose of reality that I have not heard before," said Rep. Steve Israel


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051215/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Uncle George, you'll make me cry..Oh, thanks for the handkerchief, you're so gentle.. ~:mecry:

Devastatin Dave
12-15-2005, 06:13
The beauty of this post is that it shows how much people want this transition of Iraq to fail simply because of their intense hatred of George Bush. How pathetic...

LeftEyeNine
12-15-2005, 06:24
The beauty of the post above shows how many people fail to see that George W. Bush grew the hatred himself, and express their appeal since they think that I open up a website, choose some poltical figures and bash them simply because I do not like their appearance. How pathetic..

PanzerJaeger
12-15-2005, 06:46
Confesses? Oh shut up.. :san_rolleyes:

Quit being such a drama queen, little bush-basher. He is the President of the US, he has taken responsibility for the war since the beginning, as is fitting of anyone holding that office.

Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 07:11
Not only that he said WMDs or no WMDs it was the right desicion faulty intelligence be damned.

Samurai Waki
12-15-2005, 07:44
I am on the agreement that removing Saddam was the right thing to do. Even though he is quite elderly, had he died, then you'd have his son running the country...and he would've made Saddam look like a Saint. Good Riddance.
Whats done is done, now America must stay put, and stick with it...too much is at stake, if we were to leave it would give everyone else in the world one more reason not to trust America's intentions and credibility.

Lemur
12-15-2005, 07:47
Actually, this is very encouraging. If the White House is willing to move beyond their we-are-infalliable tactic, and act like more of a wartime Presidency, it's all to the good. They should talk about mistakes, they should brace the public for problems, they should offer realistic assessments.

The President of the United States is not a cheerleader. He's supposed to be a leader. Constantly blowing sunshine up the public's posterior is not leadership; it's pandering.

I heard that the President has also been speaking in front of audiences that are not pre-selected to say nothing but "we love you." Again, this is good -- it's about time W acted like a wartime leader.

Franconicus
12-15-2005, 08:31
Do not know the speech, but if he says that the intelligence information was wrong and that he as president has the responsibility for that - than it is a good one. Did not think he would have the courage for that.

About removing Saddam: Sure positive, but what is the prize?

Samurai Waki
12-15-2005, 08:35
I always love Hitler-Bush Comparisons. Oddly, I couldn't get any images to work.

Tachikaze
12-15-2005, 08:39
He wanted to go to war. Nothing would stop him. He convinced the most gullible of the US public that it was the right thing to do based on suspicions, lies, exaggerations, and his own hope that they were true.

He is way behind in any admission. This speech says very little, really. But he is slowly getting backed into a corner. That gullible group of Americans is finally noticing something is wrong. If only they had woken up in 2001--or election 2000.

Saddam Hussein was not a threat to the US. What excrement!

Ja'chyra
12-15-2005, 09:50
So he was finally backed into a corner and admits that the intelligence was wrong, I might have more respect for him if he had admitted this as soon as it was known not years down the line.

As for his other reasons for going to war, can you use the same excuse twice.

Mind you, the criticisms aren't just for him, all politicians are the same.

Major Robert Dump
12-15-2005, 10:43
lame duck = no accountability = why not?

Prodigal
12-15-2005, 10:46
Mind you, the criticisms aren't just for him, all politicians are the same.
Speaking of all politicians, anyone remeber Ronnie Regan's apology about arms for hostages? That was pretty classy, his head & heart told him he wasn't trading weapons for hostages, but the documents & facts said he was.

All that needed was the twilight zone music playing in the background

[QUOTE]lame duck = no accountability = why not?[QUOTE]
Shouldn't that be Politician = no accountability = because they KNOW they're better than us lowly mortals

Rodion Romanovich
12-15-2005, 12:30
Admitting faults is a great virtue of a leader, but the question is what he means by saying "reforming the secret service". Hopefully it's either rhetoric or making sure information from secret service is double-checked before used as a reason to go to war. In the worst case, reforming the secret service means increased spying of American and other citizens. It's difficult to judge which way it is, but if Bush starts speaking of increased surveillance etc., then we know it was the latter. If not, we can hope it was the former.

LeftEyeNine
12-15-2005, 14:00
Iraqi Dead in min. numbers : 27383

American Deaths
Since war began (3/19/03): 2151
Since "Mission Accomplished" (5/1/03): 2014
Since Capture of Saddam (12/13/03): 1684
Since Handover (6/29/04): 1285
Since Election (1/31/05): 713

Americans wounded (certain recorded #) :15881

Outcomes :

- Iraq is now the best place the fanatic Islamic terror can flourish
- Federation system only brought further distinction among the religious/racial factions.
- This chaotic place is what PKK was looking for, their activities and campings are higher compared to the times before invasion

And I'll never forget the detention of 11 Turkish soldiers.

What do I have to respect this mighty liberization ? Screw it.

How far is it a show of virtue after causing so much trouble and casulaties and say : "Oh sorry, forgive me" ? I feel being fooled after Bush going out there and say "It was a mistake". Great job, mister. Maybe after another that much of casualties you can notice that if virtue was raining down, you'd stand dry.

Hurin_Rules
12-15-2005, 16:25
The admission in itself is good, and long overdue. However, note even here the Orwellian Bushspeak:

Not all the intelligence was wrong. Some of it was; the rest Bush misused and misrepresented to make it appear surer than it was.

It is a limited admission at best.

master of the puppets
12-15-2005, 17:08
hes afraid of being wrong tsk tsk, for we all know we could it better if we had some experiance and the 20 billion dollars it takes to buy...oops excuse me, be elected into office(:san_laugh:). he distorted some facts and went on limited and dubious imformation, it was folly to do what he did with so little real proof, well now he admits it, whoop-dee-freakin-do he will have to absolve this to get any segment of credit back. and even then seeing his decision i don't think i could have faith in him.

Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 17:18
he distorted some facts and went on limited and dubious imformation

Dont you mean Dubyas unformantion?

master of the puppets
12-15-2005, 17:40
Dont you mean Dubyas unformantion?

srry i dnt speek munkey.

Gawain of Orkeny
12-15-2005, 18:07
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Dont you mean Dubyas unformantion?


srry i dnt speek munkey.

Sorry my bad. I meant Dubyas information.

Goofball
12-16-2005, 00:40
lame duck = no accountability = why not?

You've hit the nail on the head there, MRD.

This is nothing more than an attempt by a President with nothing to lose to draw voters' ire onto himself, and hopefully deflect it away from his party in future elections.

Hopefully Americans will be clever enough to see through this crap and remember that the Republicans are the ones responsible for all of those flag-draped caskets when it comes time to vote again.

Alexander the Pretty Good
12-16-2005, 01:29
And the Democrats who voted for it too.

:san_smiley:

Goofball
12-16-2005, 01:38
And the Democrats who voted for it too.

:san_smiley:

I can't believe you have the balls to even say that. They voted for it because Bush et al sold them a false bill of goods.

Maybe this little story will simplify it for you:

Bush et al: *hand Dems a chocolate covered turd*

Democrats: What's this?

Bush et al: It's really good, it's a chocolate covered macadamia nut. *giggles* Don't worry, we had our people x-ray it, we know what's inside...

Democrats: *take bite of chocolate covered turd* You liars! That was a turd, not a macadamia nut!

Bush et al: Hey, don't blame us. You're the ones who decided to take a bite...

solypsist
12-16-2005, 01:52
good thing the guy in charge of all this "faulty intelligence" got his just rewards
/sarcasm


http://www.pontealdia.com/common/newsimages/t/Tenet-Bush-medal.jpg

Strike For The South
12-16-2005, 02:00
And the Democrats who voted for it too.

:san_smiley:

All the parties are the same looking out for no one but there lobbiests. Im going to quote Bill Hicks on this "I think the puppet on the left is to my liking" "really the one on the right seems to better fit me" This country needs to wake up politially as do the people. Or one day were going to wake up and realize we pissed it all down the drian

Alexander the Pretty Good
12-16-2005, 02:11
Goofball - I do have the balls to post what happens to be fact.

You cannot deny that the Democrats in Congress voted overwhelmingly for the war.

And if the Democrats were misled, then hopefully Americans will be clever enough to remember that the Democrats are the ones stupid enough to go along with "all of those flag-draped caskets" when it comes time to vote again.

Soulforged
12-16-2005, 04:31
Ah, good 'ol Dubya. This raises my estimation of him. Few presidents would ever admit blame to something this big. Still, I'd rather see the video of this speach.
Yes but you've to admit that it's a good sign of political etics. The preocupation of the politician should be his own responsability...I think that Bush has taken care of that, at least.

Xiahou
12-16-2005, 04:59
Goofball - I do have the balls to post what happens to be fact.

You cannot deny that the Democrats in Congress voted overwhelmingly for the war.

And if the Democrats were misled, then hopefully Americans will be clever enough to remember that the Democrats are the ones stupid enough to go along with "all of those flag-draped caskets" when it comes time to vote again.
Yeah really, how many members of Congress actually requested and read the intel reports on Iraq.... was it 2? To claim Democrats were tricked is to claim they are fantastically stupid. If we're throwing Republicans out of office for lying about intelligence, we'd better be throwing out Democrats for stupidity.

Just A Girl
12-16-2005, 05:11
Yeah really, how many members of Congress actually requested and read the intel reports on Iraq.... was it 2? To claim Democrats were tricked is to claim they are fantastically stupid. If we're throwing Republicans out of office for lying about intelligence, we'd better be throwing out Democrats for stupidity.

Throw em all Out ....
Put sadam in charge of america :)

Cant be any worse.

Ironside
12-16-2005, 14:11
Yeah really, how many members of Congress actually requested and read the intel reports on Iraq.... was it 2? To claim Democrats were tricked is to claim they are fantastically stupid. If we're throwing Republicans out of office for lying about intelligence, we'd better be throwing out Democrats for stupidity.

You mean so you can finally elect someone competent, without having to chose between bad or worse?

Great idea :thumbsup:

Fragony
12-16-2005, 15:49
Well at least he is willing to acknowledge he made a mistake at the time, that kind of honesty is rare. And it may just become a great mistake, as the iraqi's are voting en masse.

master of the puppets
12-16-2005, 16:02
ok, so we all agree TWO PARTY SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK

so lets get some new parties, actuall lets just get one, led by me, and it will be elected, for me, and we will rule the world with an iron fist, actually take da w out of we and replace it with me and get rid of 1 e.:san_laugh:

Tribesman
12-16-2005, 18:52
Yeah really, how many members of Congress actually requested and read the intel reports on Iraq.... was it 2? To claim Democrats were tricked is to claim they are fantastically stupid. If we're throwing Republicans out of office for lying about intelligence, we'd better be throwing out Democrats for stupidity.
Since it is a repeat of Tonkin , but in reverse , isn't it time you kicked both the Democrats and Republicans out as not only have both lied about intelligence they have both shown that they are fantastically stupid .

Gawain of Orkeny
12-16-2005, 19:08
For once Im with Tribesman :san_laugh:

Alexanderofmacedon
12-16-2005, 19:18
How about we be ruled by little five year old girls...They're nice, innocent and no foreign ruler could say no to this (http://www.peacewithrealism.org/images/danielle.jpg)

BDC
12-16-2005, 19:34
How about we be ruled by little five year old girls...They're nice, innocent and no foreign ruler could say no to this (http://www.peacewithrealism.org/images/danielle.jpg)
It's true. America could get anything. So obvious no one has even thought of it before...

Hurin_Rules
12-16-2005, 20:15
They tried that in the Middle Ages--it was called the Children's Crusade--and no, it didn't turn out well.

Reverend Joe
12-16-2005, 20:21
No, I suppose that we wouldn't want all of America to be sold into slavery in Venice.