Factions that do little or nothing

[The Darkhorn]

I play MTW:VI (no patch downloaded yet...I'm lazy). There are several factions that consistantly do nothing in my games (I've recently played as Poland, Byz, and Sicilian Normans, but it applied when I played some others too).

DANES: maybe, maybe, maybe Sweden if I've not already taken it. Then they sit there and do NOTHING. Yet, I can build an impressive empire with them.

THE POPE: NOTHING but interfere with me and side with aggressors who attack me unprovoked....unless he re-emerges b/c someone took him out (I don't fight the pope)....then he usually takes all of Italy at the least.

ENGLISH: ALWAYS death by Frog. ALWAYS. The only time they are not wiped out by Francois is when I am Francois...and then sometimes too.

ARAGON: Will sometimes take a province or two....only to lose them later, but no one ever eliminates them. I've played them once and had to cheat to even survive.

ALMONDS: (what my boss calls them): Initially successful, then ALWAYS wiped out by Spain and/or HRE. Constantly re-ermerging with 90% archers and handgunners. DEATH by sword within a decade or so.

TURKS: With one exception. In current Polish campaign, they are still around, though weak in 1330. Perhaps b/c I destroyed the Purple Turk Eaters?

Are these results consistant in your campaigns?

[matteus the inbred]

yeah! pretty much. Almohads sometimes make it actually, it's them or Spain.

Aragon, absolutely rubbish, and i can't do much better myself. i mean, ONE province???
Poland, does nowt, picks fight with Byz or HRE, dies. check.
English always crushed by Frogs. check.
Turks always die, reappear, die again, reappear again, die again...
Pope...gah. unless you're Hungarian. he's very nice to you when you're Hungarian, got given 1,000 florins three times in ten years once :san_grin:

[rvg]

In my games Danes almost always stagnate, Byz are almost always reduced to one dinky island province (usually Rhodes). Spain beats the Elmos about 3 times out of 4, while France beats the Brits 9 times out of 10.

Also, I have yet to see a strong HRE. They get nibbled to death by their neighbors from every direction in almost every game.

Egypt usually does very well though.

[Microwavegerbil]

I've been toying with XL mod lately, while waiting for the early period in the newest medmod to come out, and here's what's been happening.

The English are the new bad boy in town, even if they get kicked from the mainland. Having the Wessex-Flanders landbridge offers them some safety and time to build up before massively invading most of Europe.

The Eggies have been strong and captured from Egypt to Constantinople every single game I've ever played on XL.

The Danes build MASSIVE fleets and invade the mediteranean, then sit there.

The Spanish usually win control of Spain, even if they get eliminated. In my last game the Almohads killed them off, then they reappeared and took all the way to the Egyptian border.

The Genoese or Venetians do well, usually not both in the same campaign though. Then the HRE eats them.

The HRE doesn't grow super-quick, but they usually hold on to what they've got and take out the Genoese and Sicilians.

Unmodded, I tend to agree with the above posts, usually the Spanish in the bottom left, the Eggies in the bottom right (very occasionally it'll be the turks), the French in the top left, all converging on the hodge podge of semi-weak factions in the middle.

Edit: As a side not, I realized I just did the factions that ALWAYS do something instead of the other way around. Doh.

[miho]

Has anyone ever seen the Russians/Novg beat the horde. It only happened once, but they were very strong untill they attacked me. That was a huge mistake for them.

[littlebktruck]

In my experience, the Sicilians do nothing but build some ships and have a go at my navy every once in a while.

[Yoyoma1910]

If you really want you can change the code for thier humors, and make them more aggressive.

[_Aetius_]

There are some crucial battles that determine the future of certain factions, the main ones being Almohads v Spanish, English v French and Byzantium v Turks.

The victors in these wars can vary every single game, sometimes a new faction joins in as a minor power, Aragon, HRE, Hungary and Egypt being the ones most likely to intervene and turn the tide of a war.

Sometimes I see the Spanish conquer the Almohads in no time, sometimes I see the Almohads become a major superpower dominating all of the west of the map. Sometimes the French do the same etc etc etc.

It varies all the time which is why there is so much replay value.

BTW the Aragonese are nowhere near as hard as they look, just backstab the Spanish when the time is right and you can replace them and continue their war with the Almohads. Then just pick specific provinces for conquest, Sicily, Sardinia/Corsica and Malta are good. Sicily for trade the others purely for strategic value this way you will dominate the central med and therefore all of the trade. By the way, since so many provinces trade in silk in the west, you need to conquer provinces that dont have just silk or ones that have a few tradable goods, otherwise you wont make to much money. A strong navy is vital.

[antisocialmunky]

Ever so often, around the black death, the Pope might go rabid and start taking over all of Italy and Germany.

[_Aetius_]

As the Danes once by the time we got to the end date the Papacy ruled about 70% of the map, I had Britain, northern europe, the northern and central steppes and some territory in france. The papacy had just about everything else, was absolutely crazy, but I won on points anyway because I was playing GA, got so many points I filled the bar and it started anew :san_laugh:

[littlebktruck]

There are some crucial battles that determine the future of certain factions, the main ones being Almohads v Spanish, English v French and Byzantium v Turks.

The victors in these wars can vary every single game, sometimes a new faction joins in as a minor power, Aragon, HRE, Hungary and Egypt being the ones most likely to intervene and turn the tide of a war.

Sometimes I see the Spanish conquer the Almohads in no time, sometimes I see the Almohads become a major superpower dominating all of the west of the map. Sometimes the French do the same etc etc etc.

It varies all the time which is why there is so much replay value.

Hmm. In my games the Egyptians nearly always outpace both the Byzantines and the Turks.

The Byzantines are doing well in my current game, but they're fighting Egypt to a stalemate because they're keeping a full 3 stacks in Moldavia for some reason, allowing the Egyptians to maintain numerical superiority in the southeast.

[_Aetius_]

I have no idea why the Byzantines always do that, even when they are being overrun they have 3 stacks in Moldavia doing nothing. I wish somebody had an explanation for this behaviour.

Its true often the Egyptians can join the war on the Turks side, defeat the Byzantines then beat the Turks thus emerging as the power in the east, that can happen when the French are beating the English the HRE can jump in and together England and the HRE beat France.

[NodachiSam]

They probably do that because the AI is programmed to be really concerned about you. If they share a border they are likely to beef it up. I've had the same thing happen with the Byzantines. I was HRE once and I was at war with the spanish and even though I had never attacked a province of theirs they piled -every- unit they had into the two battle neck provinces (aragon and naverre?) leaving their southern provinces with zilch while they were at war with the alhomods. That was the end of them needless to say.

I've had the Danes grow pretty big but that is very seldom, as they usually spiral into debt. I've never seen the aragonese get past 4 provinces. The patriarch will sometimes take most of Italy but not much beyond that. _Aetius_'s game is an incredible exception. I think the Pope goes apes*** after reemergences in comparison to his docile self beforehand. In my longer games the HRE rarely lives too long. The novogardians seem to do well until about 1230 and usually are nothing to speak of after 1250 unless I start a late game.

[Ludens]

They probably do that because the AI is programmed to be really concerned about you. If they share a border they are likely to beef it up.
That may well be true, but the Byzantines regularly leave Constantinople undefended when the Turks have captured Nicea and I am playing as Egyptians.

If the Danes take Sweden they can grow big, but they seldom do. For some reason they are more likely to attack Sweden if you or another faction takes it then when it's rebel held. Aragon seems programmed to take Toulouse and occasionally attacks Valencia, but I have never seen them do both. Almohads were a monster in early M:TW but pathetic in VI.

On the other hand, the Sicilians can be very annoying. They seldom form a big empire, but I have seen them attack North Africa and Spain, and they often go at war with the Papacy and the Italians, so I wouldn't call them passive. Also their ships are a major pain if you are trying to set up a Mediterranean trade network. The Pope went berserk in several of my games, but I cannot remember if this was the consequence of a reemergence. In other games, however, he never gets beyond Genoa. However, one might argue that it's not his purpose to go conquering.

[matteus the inbred]

That may well be true, but the Byzantines regularly leave Constantinople undefended when the Turks have captured Nicea and I am playing as Egyptians.

i agree, Constantinople has fallen to the AI so often! like it's not important or something :san_rolleyes:

thanks for tips on Aragon, Aetius...i've gone all naval and taken Genoa and Provence from rebels, and launched a successful crusade which now holds Antioch and Edessa. i'm too weak to attack Spain yet, but the massive border stacking they're doing should render them incapable of beating the Almohads, so i'll take that one on when the Spanish get eliminated...