Is it time for the UK to leave the EU (UK only Please)

[ShadesWolf]

After LAbours latest surrender to Federal Europe please have your say. UK only on this thread for voting. (I will create an EU - not UK thread also)

[ShadesWolf]

I as you all expect have voted YES. Its time for us to leave and go it alone.

[Prodigal]

I'm British, but have been living in Spain for about 10 years, I've seen the benefits that Spain has reaped from being a part of it, but I really can't think of what the UK actually gains, other than having in a small say in the direction the EU takes

[Sjakihata]

As a European I do hope Britain leaves. Britain is not helping the EU, only causing problems. And it is costly for the rest of the EU languages. So please leave Britain, thank you

[Marcellus]

As a European I do hope Britain leaves. Britain is not helping the EU, only causing problems. And it is costly for the rest of the EU languages. So please leave Britain, thank you

We're not helping the EU? Odd, last time I checked, we were actually paying several billion Euros into it every year. Edit: For clarity. that's the net, not total contribution

I feel European as well as British, and hope that we stay in the EU. Edit: However, it does need to be reformed to be simpler and more modern.

[Ldvs]

We're not helping the EU? Odd, last time I checked, we were actually paying several billion Euros into it every year.
There lies the problem. When you're only reasoning in terms of financial contribution, the rest of the EU is not.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Hah, so the French don't care about money? Why is it that you refuse to even negotiate over the CAP then? I'm sorry, but that's rubbish.

While I do believe the EU is workable, and a desirable thing, there does need to be a serious restructuring of the payment system. Refusing to sit there and get completely shafted isn't selfish, it's just prudent.

[Ldvs]

Hah, so the French don't care about money? Why is it that you refuse to even negotiate over the CAP then? I'm sorry, but that's rubbish.
As explained numerous times, it's not all the French who are supporting the current form of the CAP, it's Chirac and his most loyal electoral base: the farmers. I, for one, certainly find it atrociously out of date and unfair in its distribution.
And no, I don't care about the UK's money. I'd much prefer it to leave and pay more.

[Marcellus]

There lies the problem. When you're only reasoning in terms of financial contribution, the rest of the EU is not.

So what was this latest budget row about if it wasn't about money?

[Mongoose]

%^*&^&^$&$^$&!!!!!! I voted too fast. Subtract one vote form the "Yes" option:san_embarassed:

But yes, i do think that the U.K should leave the E.U. Whats the point of joining a group that mostly just takes your money and gives it to the other members?

[Marcellus]

%^*&^&^$&$^$&!!!!!! I voted too fast. Subtract one vote form the "Yes" option:san_embarassed:

But yes, i do think that the U.K should leave the E.U. Whats the point of joining a group that mostly just takes your money and gives it to the other members?

The point is helping other, less well off European nations, which indirectly can help our economies (larger trading partners). In the same way that richer people in Britain (and almost everywhere) give money to the poor via higher taxes, richer EU nations give money to the poorer ones.

[Mikeus Caesar]

Yes, i believe we should leave the EU. Sure, it makes it a bit easier to trade with other EU nations, but they impose a whole load of crappy rules on us that no one likes.

[Kralizec]

Hah, so the French don't care about money? Why is it that you refuse to even negotiate over the CAP then? I'm sorry, but that's rubbish.

While I do believe the EU is workable, and a desirable thing, there does need to be a serious restructuring of the payment system. Refusing to sit there and get completely shafted isn't selfish, it's just prudent.

I agree entirely :bow:

[Marcellus]

Sure, it makes it a bit easier to trade with other EU nations, but they impose a whole load of crappy rules on us that no one likes.

Yeah, rubbish rules like human rights. How dare they!

[AntiochusIII]

The point is helping other, less well off European nations, which indirectly can help our economies (larger trading partners). In the same way that richer people in Britain (and almost everywhere) give money to the poor via higher taxes, richer EU nations give money to the poorer ones.Excellent answer.

Remember the Marshall plan? America provided tons of money for the ruined Western Europe to rebuild, and they gained valuable allies and trade partners as a result.

And no, it wasn't that popular to the American public when Truman proposed it. In fact, it was rather hated.

I cannot vote because I'm not European, (or British :san_grin: ), but I believe Great Britain should stay in the EU. The European Union is more than just an economic partnership; Europe united so it could have a say in the world. Unfortunately, politicians will always be politicians, thus the influence the EU has is unused, and, from what I gather, the British voters would have to trust their French contemporaries to vote for someone competent (somehow...) in order to remove the apparently hated CAP program, which supports one of Chirac's power base.

But going alone is foolish; British say in how the world is going would be diminished further. Do you people really believe that going out of the EU (which you are among the masters, albeit one of the many, and thus little power) would "free" your country's direction, when Bush&cro. is still demanding everyone in the world, especially your prime minister, his little puppy, to choose sides? Do you want to be America's lapdog full-time now?

One thing that everyone except the politicians seem to agree is that the EU needs reform to achieve its potential; the current beaurecracy is a mess.

[A.Saturnus]

So what was this latest budget row about if it wasn't about money?


It´s about the fact that Great Britain pays less money than other members relative to their economy. This is known as the "British rebate". Other members find that a bit unfair, but GB doesn´t understand why.

[Marcellus]

It´s about the fact that Great Britain pays less money than other members relative to their economy.

Oh, so it was about money all along.


This is known as the "British rebate". Other members find that a bit unfair, but GB doesn´t understand why.

I agree, the rebate is unfair, as is the CAP. The EU budget needs a wholescale review.

[A.Saturnus]

Oh, so it was about money all along.

You could say it was about fairness.



I agree, the rebate is unfair, as is the CAP. The EU budget needs a wholescale review.

I agree.

[BDC]

We could kick out the French instead. Or start a No-France club all of our own. I think everyone would be happier then.

[JAG]

Clearly we should stay in the EU and it is only loons who believe we could survive or prosper like we do now without it - I shall be thanking the EU when I get my ERASMUS grant for studying abroad at another uni in the EU....

We aren't leaving and we never will, not because we can't but because it makes no sense, deal with it you nationalist whingers.

[Ldvs]

We could kick out the French instead. Or start a No-France club all of our own. I think everyone would be happier then.
That's certainly why the first Brittish proposals were greeted with an uproar and many were shocked by such a pro-Brittish stance. Those who are blatantly always dragging their feet are to be found on the other side of the Channel I think.


So what was this latest budget row about if it wasn't about money?
As explained by Saturnus it was about fairness. It was also about political ambition for the EU. Something the UK lacks, beyond a doubt.


Wise words AntiochusIII.

[Prodigal]

As a European I do hope Britain leaves. Britain is not helping the EU, only causing problems. And it is costly for the rest of the EU languages. So please leave Britain, thank you
EU languages mi culo, anyone miss the UK ONLY bit?

[Xiahou]

EU languages mi culo, anyone miss the UK ONLY bit?
Too late now, but he probably should've made the poll votes public- so you could see who wasnt following directions. I'm not from the UK, so I didnt vote- but if I were, I'd say leave.

As an American, I don't really care too much about it- so long as they don't try to shove any of that 'savings tax directive' crap down our throats....

[Marcellus]

As explained by Saturnus it was about fairness.

Nah, it was about money. The EU needs a lot of it, and this budget row was about who pays - no-one really wants to.


It was also about political ambition for the EU. Something the UK lacks, beyond a doubt.

Hardly. The UK wants to transform the EU economy to become more competitive and more modern, a vision of the EU that isn't lacking in political ambition.


EU languages mi culo, anyone miss the UK ONLY bit?

I think that only applies to the polls.

[Shahed]

It is simply not possible for Britain to leave the EU.

Try to think about it for a minute.

[bmolsson]

Why should UK leave ? Silly....

[InsaneApache]

Shouldn't the question be how we (UK) ended up inside a 'EU' in the first place?

What on Earth happened to the EEC?

The EU is so corrupt and shambolic it's no real surprise that the UK veiws it cautiously.....and after France and Holland gave the constitution the big heave-ho who can blame us? I'm amazed at the number of posters here who have swallowed the political elites propaganda hook line and sinker.

BTW if the UK did leave the EU it would signal the death financially of this beast, after all we now prop up most of it after having our money filtched from our pockets, yet again. Way to go Tony Blair, you have carved your place in history....a quisling to Brussels. Nice one.

[Geoffrey S]

I agree, the rebate is unfair, as is the CAP. The EU budget needs a wholescale review.
Something I think we can all agree with.

That's certainly why the first Brittish proposals were greeted with an uproar and many were shocked by such a pro-Brittish stance. Those who are blatantly always dragging their feet are to be found on the other side of the Channel I think.
Hardly. Dragging their feet is certainly not limited to the UK, particularly in the light of France and Holland openly rejecting the proposed EU constitution; if anything, the biggest problem with the EU is that everyone says they want the EU and all it stands for but everyone baulks at actually making a significant contribution. Britain is just as bad in this regard as the rest.

[Ldvs]

Nah, it was about money. The EU needs a lot of it, and this budget row was about who pays - no-one really wants to.
Need I remind you, again, how much the EU budget represents for each country's GDP? Blair acknowledged it himself. The EU budget is symbolic.


Hardly. The UK wants to transform the EU economy to become more competitive and more modern, a vision of the EU that isn't lacking in political ambition.
You have a strange conception of what political ambition means. In my opinion, you're describing economic ambition, which I will not deny the UK has aplenty, something we need desperately over here.
To clarify the situation, by political ambition I meant a political union. A set of institutions that would take over our respective institutions. An ambition to create a federal state like Germany or the USA, not just a mere economic union.

[InsaneApache]

But why should we have a political union? What would be the benefit? We hardly get anything out of the beast as it is? Just another way for '2nd world' Europe to draw more money from advanced nations. Why don't they try standing on their own two feet ?

Here's an idea. Get the EU to sign off it's accounts. Then make the EU publish said accounts. Show where ALL the money is going. Force the finances to be transparent. Then we may see some changes in attitude. After all remember it is folks like myself who fund this edifice, governments and more importantly the EU doesn't have any money of it's own, it only has money it has taken from peoples pockets.

[JAG]

IA - our economy has only got as strong as it is now because of the EU and the benefits we have gained from it, soemtiems you need to step back from your petty nationalistic stance and take a look at the good in the EU, there is a reason so many, even in this country, support it.

[InsaneApache]

IA - our economy has only got as strong as it is now because of the EU and the benefits we have gained from it, soemtiems you need to step back from your petty nationalistic stance and take a look at the good in the EU, there is a reason so many, even in this country, support it.

We have crossed swords on this before and you know my attitude to the EU. As for the EU being responsible for our economic success....well wtf happened to France and Germany then?....you just can't bring yourself to admit that Thatcher got it right and that the 'Left' got left behind.

My beef with the EU is that it is an undemocratic, corrupt institution. I have no problem with economic union. That, after all, was what the UK voted on back in '75. It's called democracy m8 :san_grin:

[Red Peasant]

We're not helping the EU? Odd, last time I checked, we were actually paying several billion Euros into it every year. Edit: For clarity. that's the net, not total contribution

I feel European as well as British, and hope that we stay in the EU. Edit: However, it does need to be reformed to be simpler and more modern.

The UK is the second largest NET contributor (i.e. even after the rebate) to the EU and nearly always has been as far as I know, so it really annoys me when nationals from certain countries (who have only ever taken from the pot) start pontificating about Britain this and Britain that.

Britain has invested a hell of a lot of money developing these economies and we need to stay around to make sure we reap any economic benefits, and we won't do that from the outside.

[Ja'chyra]

IA - our economy has only got as strong as it is now because of the EU and the benefits we have gained from it, soemtiems you need to step back from your petty nationalistic stance and take a look at the good in the EU, there is a reason so many, even in this country, support it.

Maybe you should take a step back from the ridicule you try to force on anyone who doesn't agree with your views, petty, loons etc.

It amuses me that the ones who were shouting the loudest about our rebate are the ones who take most of the money from the CAP and souldn't even see the hypocrasy.

[Marcellus]

Need I remind you, again, how much the EU budget represents for each country's GDP? Blair acknowledged it himself. The EU budget is symbolic.

It represents 1.045% of each country's GDP. For the UK that would be about £10.8 billion. It's hardly a small amount of money.


You have a strange conception of what political ambition means. In my opinion, you're describing economic ambition, which I will not deny the UK has aplenty, something we need desperately over here.
To clarify the situation, by political ambition I meant a political union. A set of institutions that would take over our respective institutions. An ambition to create a federal state like Germany or the USA, not just a mere economic union.

That's one vision of Europe. Just because you want a different idea for Europe doesn't mean that you lack political ambition. The UK wants to change Europe, maybe not into a federal state, but it does want to introduce serious reforms. That requires a lot of political ambition.

[Ldvs]

It represents 1.045% of each country's GDP. For the UK that would be about £10.8 billion. It's hardly a small amount of money.
Of course it's not a small amount of money if you take it out of the context. 1% of each country's budget sounds like the few coins you give to beggars, to me. Nonetheless, it goes without saying that if we could save the money wasted by the incompetent and unscrupulous bureaucrats and cut drastically in the CAP spendings, that would already help a lot without demanding further financial contribution.


That's one vision of Europe. Just because you want a different idea for Europe doesn't mean that you lack political ambition. The UK wants to change Europe, maybe not into a federal state, but it does want to introduce serious reforms. That requires a lot of political ambition.
So be it. I guess it depends on one's definition of political ambition.

[Ianofsmeg16]

We should leave....we're not european, we're british

[Geoffrey S]

We should leave....we're not european, we're british
The two aren't mutually exclusive, y'know.

[Ianofsmeg16]

You speak a different language, your foreign...no more EU!!

p.s. I'm joking I'm all for germany, the netherlands, even belgium!

[Meneldil]

My beef with the EU is that it is an undemocratic, corrupt institution. I have no problem with economic union. That, after all, was what the UK voted on back in '75. It's called democracy m8 :san_grin:

Hell, if you only agreed to join an economical union in 75, you were seriously fooled by your leaders. European integration, wether it was called the ECSC, the EDC, the EEC or the EU, was - and I hope is still - aimed toward a political integration. The economical stuff was just one of the most important step toward this integration.


We have crossed swords on this before and you know my attitude to the EU. As for the EU being responsible for our economic success....well wtf happened to France and Germany then?....you just can't bring yourself to admit that Thatcher got it right and that the 'Left' got left behind.

...well, wtf happened to Spain and Portugal ? These 2 countries got wealthier directly thanks to the EU, while France and Germany issues are not related to EU whatsoever.

If EU was as bad as you're claiming, surely UK wouldn't have gotten wealthier in the last decades :san_rolleyes:


BTW if the UK did leave the EU it would signal the death financially of this beast, after all we now prop up most of it after having our money filtched from our pockets, yet again

I suggest you read some reports on the EU budget. While each other member would have to give a few more euros, I highly doubt the EU would die simply because the Brits would left it. In fact, I'd rather say UK would have more troubles than EU.


Why don't they try standing on their own two feet ?

Because we aren't greedy bastards ? Because the wealthier they are, the wealthier we are ? Because they deserve some help ? Because I don't want Poland to turn into another Belarus ? Because if we don't help them, they'll just try to find a job into our countries ?

I'm sure a lot of American bitched when the US governement offered millions of dollars to France and UK after WWII. Would you have whined and bitched in 1946, when most of the things you could have bought were offered by the US taxpayers ?

[Just A Girl]

theres no The EU needs us option :(

[Louis VI the Fat]

theres no The EU needs us option :(Obviously. :san_tongue:

[English assassin]

I see today Chirac is running around saying that there is no chance the CAP will be reformed in any way, when yesterday the UK agreed to give up part of the rebate on the clear understanding that ALL parts of the EU budget would be reviewed. And they have the cheek to call the British perfidious?

You just can't do business with a lying two faced child born to unmarried parents like that, and for that reason we should leave immediately. I love all this high falutin' talk about how its all in the interests of Europe and stop being so national. Tell it to bloody Chirac before you lecture the UK. Or that great European who always put the continent's interests ahead of his country, Charles de Gaulle. (God forbid that we should ever do another country a favour again, they will hate you for it for ever)


Hell, if you only agreed to join an economical union in 75, you were seriously fooled by your leaders

Yes, we were.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

EA: my mum's always complaining about being lied to in '75 when some Euro crap is ongoing. I imagine she's doing it as I type.

[English assassin]

Yeah, my dad too, and he actually likes the French. He reckons the EU would have been fine for us provided we had gone into it with the intention to lie to everyone, chisel every penny out of it for ourselves and have one of the worst records for implimenting EU law, all the while lecturing everyone on the need to be good Europeans.

Like a certain nation I could mention.

[Louis VI the Fat]

I see today Chirac is running around saying that there is no chance the CAP will be reformed in any way, when yesterday the UK agreed to give up part of the rebate on the clear understanding that ALL parts of the EU budget would be reviewed.Fooled you, didn't we? :san_tongue: :san_laugh:

[English assassin]

Fooled you, didn't we? :san_tongue: :san_laugh:

Every single time...

[Ldvs]

I see today Chirac is running around saying that there is no chance the CAP will be reformed in any way, when yesterday the UK agreed to give up part of the rebate on the clear understanding that ALL parts of the EU budget would be reviewed. And they have the cheek to call the British perfidious?

You just can't do business with a lying two faced child born to unmarried parents like that, and for that reason we should leave immediately. I love all this high falutin' talk about how its all in the interests of Europe and stop being so national. Tell it to bloody Chirac before you lecture the UK. Or that great European who always put the continent's interests ahead of his country, Charles de Gaulle. (God forbid that we should ever do another country a favour again, they will hate you for it for ever)
As much as I agree with you there, you're aiming at the wrong person. Chirac didn't get here by happenstance, although corruption did help. You should rather blame our political class's hypocrisy and dishonesty plaguing the political sphere since time immemorial. But don't forget that, first and foremost, it's stupid and short-sighted people who got him elected, may it be directly or indirectly.
And if everything goes wrong like it seems to be, the next president will be even worse. I give you a hint, it's a xenophobic, propagandist and fascist person who has sickening lust for power (N...... S......).

Beware, even a simple glimpse of him may cause nauseas and abominable headaches.
The Unnamed Beast http://www.ftd.de/asset/Image/2005/09/07/sarkozy.jpg

[InsaneApache]

If EU was as bad as you're claiming, surely UK wouldn't have gotten wealthier in the last decades

Well it's certainly a novel idea, even though it's complete bollox.

The reason the UK is spectacularly successful compared with most of our European brethren is because of the reforms we implemented in the late 70s to the late 80s. (and boy did they hurt) It's the market economy for us. Not that moronic ideal called the social model, we tried that and it made us bankrupt and incompetitive.

You gotta love the French leadership though, even if it's only for their barefaced cheek. Remember all this stems from Chirac getting a bloody good hiding at the poll for the EU constitution. Since then, to divert attention from his grubby politiking, he's banged on about the UK rebate. Shame on the posters here for falling for such an obvious ploy.....I mean even Baldrick could come up with a more cunning plan that that. (Even if it did work:san_shocked: )

[Monarch]

There lies the problem. When you're only reasoning in terms of financial contribution, the rest of the EU is not.

Your saying nations such as the new Eastern european members (if you ask them why they joined, an honest person would probably say something along the lines of a better economy, or because we can earn more money. It's not just the money we pay, but alot of europeans work in britain because the quality of living is much better and pay is much better) and even the French do not care about British fiancial contribution? The union is all about trade, economies and very basically MONEY. I mean really, nations are just bound together because it's nice to get together and be happy bunnies?

I think we should stay in, but only even the amount everyone pays in is balanced.

[English assassin]

As much as I agree with you there, you're aiming at the wrong person. Chirac didn't get here by happenstance, although corruption did help. You should rather blame our political class's hypocrisy and dishonesty plaguing the political sphere since time immemorial. But don't forget that, first and foremost, it's stupid and short-sighted people who got him elected, may it be directly or indirectly.
And if everything goes wrong like it seems to be, the next president will be even worse. I give you a hint, it's a xenophobic, propagandist and fascist person who has sickening lust for power (N...... S......).

Well its nice that we are agreeing but its not making me feel much better about the EU. Maybe Merkel will save us, if she has any spare time after saving herself.

[lancelot]

As a European I do hope Britain leaves. Britain is not helping the EU, only causing problems. And it is costly for the rest of the EU languages. So please leave Britain, thank you

What a load of rubbish!

Britain pays a fortune to subsidise French! farmers so they can sell their goods back to us at an inflated price and we dont contribute???

[Ldvs]

Your saying nations such as the new Eastern european members
Where's the end of the phrase, please?


It's not just the money we pay, but alot of europeans work in britain because the quality of living is much better and pay is much better
Of course... I reckon you're not taking into account the lower third of your population, nor your poor health care system, nor your public school system, nor the precariousness of the majority of the jobs (it's not much better in France admittedly), nor...


and even the French do not care about British fiancial contribution?
Considering France is a net contributor, our farmers would get those subsidies whether we were in the EU or not. And for your information, I don't support the CAP.


The union is all about trade, economies and very basically MONEY
Is a Constitution all about money? I guess not.


I mean really, nations are just bound together because it's nice to get together and be happy bunnies?
While I won't be as optimistic, you cannot deny the fact that the countries who join (especially the smaller ones) are given extra weight on the international scene. I daresay they also prefer to be in the EU's sphere rather than in the USSR's.

[ShadesWolf]

If EU was as bad as you're claiming, surely UK wouldn't have gotten wealthier in the last decades

Its about currency, we have different money, and the stock market likes that.
Just look at AIM to see what I mean.

[Slyspy]

But why should we have a political union? What would be the benefit? We hardly get anything out of the beast as it is? Just another way for '2nd world' Europe to draw more money from advanced nations. Why don't they try standing on their own two feet ?

Here's an idea. Get the EU to sign off it's accounts. Then make the EU publish said accounts. Show where ALL the money is going. Force the finances to be transparent. Then we may see some changes in attitude. After all remember it is folks like myself who fund this edifice, governments and more importantly the EU doesn't have any money of it's own, it only has money it has taken from peoples pockets.

Bingo, we have a winner! As soon as the EU becomes a open and democratic pan-governmental organisation then it shall have my support as the beginning of a federal Europe. All I see now is a mess of incompetance, self-serving and dishonesty. How many years since the accounts were last signed off by the auditors? Eleven, thats how many. They cannot even control their own budget. I'm all in favour of a closer Europe but I think perhaps we need to start again......

[Geoffrey S]

Bingo, we have a winner! As soon as the EU becomes a open and democratic pan-governmental organisation then it shall have my support as the beginning of a federal Europe. All I see now is a mess of incompetance, self-serving and dishonesty. How many years since the accounts were last signed off by the auditors? Eleven, thats how many. They cannot even control their own budget. I'm all in favour of a closer Europe but I think perhaps we need to start again......
Fair enough. What is needed is for new rules and a new budget to be created to suit the current situation, not constantly tweaking outdated models from years ago so it'll run a little longer. Not the way to promote longevity in the Union, and it creates an awful lot of confusion and squabbling.

[Ja'chyra]

Maybe the UK should leave and start another EU, I wonder how many countries would leave the existing shambles and join the NEU (New European Union, cunning or what?)

That way we wouldn't have to let the French in at all and I have a sneaking suspicion that the EU could then be retitled France. :san_tongue:

[Marcellus]

Where's the end of the phrase, please?

It's after the brackets:


Your saying nations such as the new Eastern european members (if you ask them why they joined, an honest person would probably say something along the lines of a better economy, or because we can earn more money. It's not just the money we pay, but alot of europeans work in britain because the quality of living is much better and pay is much better) and even the French do not care about British fiancial contribution?

[Ldvs]

It's after the brackets:
I see, quite a heavy sentence, isn't it? :ballchain: I don't know what I would do without you watching over me, Marcellus :san_grin: Nonethless, I think I made do.

[BDC]

Get rid of CAP and I'd be happier with it...

Why is our money going to farmers when we need to research and support industry?!

[Ldvs]

Get rid of CAP and I'd be happier with it...

Why is our money going to farmers when we need to research and support industry?!
Because Chirac's most loyal electoral base are farmers and guess what? Yes, politicans are always trying to gather as much support as possible...

[Louis VI the Fat]

What a load of rubbish!

Britain pays a fortune to subsidise French! farmers No you don't.

France is a net contributor to the EU, so common logic dictates that nobody subsidizes France. French farmers are subsidized by no-one but the French themselves.

France receives 22% of CAP funds and represents 17% of arable land in the EU.

So yes, France receives more than her fair share in CAP funds. Leaving an oft forgotten, 'neglectible' 78% of EU farming subsidies to 83% of non-French farm land.

Not fair, perhaps, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. The EU budget represents 1% of the EU's GDP, the CAP constitutes 40% of that, France's extra helping 5% of that.
Just why this 5% of 40% of 1% has become such an obsession abroad is a bit beyond me.

[Ldvs]

Just why this 5% of 40% of 1% has become such an obsession abroad is a bit beyond me.
Because it's symbolic, just like the rebate is.

[Red Peasant]

No you don't.

France is a net contributor to the EU, so common logic dictates that nobody subsidizes France. French farmers are subsidized by no-one but the French themselves.

France receives 22% of CAP funds and represents 17% of arable land in the EU.

So yes, France receives more than her fair share in CAP funds. Leaving an oft forgotten, 'neglectible' 78% of EU farming subsidies to 83% of non-French farm land.

Not fair, perhaps, but let's not lose a sense of proportion. The EU budget represents 1% of the EU's GDP, the CAP constitutes 40% of that, France's extra helping 5% of that.
Just why this 5% of 40% of 1% has become such an obsession abroad is a bit beyond me.


So, being so insignificant...why such an obsession to keep the high French subsidies? Non, Non, Non, and forever Non! I'm sure that if all of the other net contributors to the EU budget stopped paying in, then the French would find it impossible in the long run to pamper their farmers with such largesse from their own coffers. Or, if they did, it would be highly damaging to the rest of the economy.

[Upxl]

Excellent answer.

Do you want to be America's lapdog full-time now?




Listen to the man boys he's making sense.

I must say I'm rather surprised.
Don't you lads got any European pride?
Do you really think you will gain any profit by going solo?
These aren’t the middle ages no more!
You wont have much saying when Britain goes solo and the rest of the entire western world is "united".

Besides,...
We all had our part in a couple of genocides.
What's wrong with giving something back?

Yes, the EU is a hard nut to handle.
And yes WE give a hell of a lot money to it.
But please remember that this is only the first off many steps to come.
Rome wasn't build in a day.

History proved that Britain isn't the kind off country that will belly up and leave as soon as it gets a litle tuff.
So do us all a favor and keep playing the game.

It Will all pay off sooner then you think!

Thank you all fore you’re patience, you’ve been a lovely audience. :ave:

[Strike For The South]

The UK aint Americas lap dog