UK and the EU - (EU only please - not UK)

[ShadesWolf]

Tony Bliar has increased the UK's contribution to the EU by an extra £1bn per year. Do you like the UK being part of your EU or would you prefer us to leave.

[Meneldil]

IF Brits don't want to stay in the EU, they can leave it right away. That way you'll enjoy your 'great' (haha :san_grin:) common law system without bad French and German trying to impose a rational system upon your country.

You also won't have to give any excuse next time your country is Bush's favorite puppet.
You will also perfectly be entitled to turn into a narrow-minded, 'us-against-the-rest-of-the-world/Europe' country, which is apparently what many british are looking for.
Finally, the last but not the least, the rest Europe won't be as threatened by british food as it is right now. :san_tongue:

Seriously, I'm a bit ashamed by the british anti-EU feelings. To me, it sounds quite nationalistic, and totally selfish.
The opinion hold by the average british is the same as the one shared by the extreme-right or extreme-left french people : we don't want to share our wealth, we don't want to talk with our neighboors, we want to stick to our outdated system, France/UK is great, we don't need the EU to be a great country.
But then, any country that doesn't want to be part of the EU should be able to leave (that would have been possible with the European Treaty - Now you see, we love you so much that we rejected the treaty so you *have* to stay with us, for the best and for the worst :san_wink:).

[InsaneApache]

nooo....you know you don't mean that. After all, then the French would have to find another 'banker' to fund their corrupt, outdated and bankrupt system of governance.

Ohhh...wait, I see it now. That's why the eastern countries were allowed in, to pick up the Frenchies bill after we have had enough of the EU shafting us.

[Geoffrey S]

The EU is straining at the seams. I'm not certain how long the EU has any hope of being a viable collective as long as nothing fundamental is changed to suit the current situation, what with the new members and large-scale anti-EU sentiments. If the UK's wishes and goals continue to oppose those of the EU it would be better for both if the UK left; I'd rather not see that happen, but rather that than a constant half-hearted attitude to the matters at hand, where no-one is happy about how things are going.

[Ldvs]

I wholeheartedly agree with Meneldil. I would even be willing to pay a contribution (because blatantly money is the only thing that counts over there) if it could help the UK leave. A sort of little gift to acknowledge their outstanding contribution to the EU and their admirable willingness to go backwards.


nooo....you know you don't mean that. After all, then the French would have to find another 'banker' to fund their corrupt, outdated and bankrupt system of governance.

Ohhh...wait, I see it now. That's why the eastern countries were allowed in, to pick up the Frenchies bill after we have had enough of the EU shafting us.
Given how large the rebate is, I guess your country isn't the EU's banker as you Brits love to whine about it. I'd rather feel sorry for the Dutch who are the true bankers along with Germany.

[Meneldil]

nooo....you know you don't mean that. After all, then the French would have to find another 'banker' to fund their corrupt, outdated and bankrupt system of governance.

Ohhh...wait, I see it now. That's why the eastern countries were allowed in, to pick up the Frenchies bill after we have had enough of the EU shafting us.

As much as you like to claim the contrary, France spend more money for the EU than UK.

Now, if the 'corrupt, outdated and bankrupt' stuff you're speaking about is the CAP, I think I already stated my opinions about it. If that's not the CAP, then I'm wondering what you're speaking about, cause as far as I know, we (unlike UK) don't have some kind of crappy royal family that get millions of Germany/Dutchland/France/other EU countries-funded CAP euros because they own some lands and livestocks here and there.

[Marcellus]

As much as you like to claim the contrary, France spend more money for the EU than UK.

With the rebate (as it stood), the total contribution from France was indeed larger than the UK's contribution. Without the rebate the UK's total contribution would be slightly larger. However, France gets a lot more money back from the EU than the UK does, meaning that, even with the rebate as it stood, Britain makes a larger net contribution than France does. Without the rebate, it would be massively larger. However, by far the largest net contribution to the EU is Germany's, although it wouldn't be if the rebate went entirely.

[Ldvs]

With the rebate (as it stood), the total contribution from France was indeed larger than the UK's contribution. Without the rebate the UK's total contribution would be slightly larger. However, France gets a lot more money back from the EU than the UK does, meaning that, even with the rebate as it stood, Britain makes a larger net contribution than France does. Without the rebate, it would be massively larger. However, by far the largest net contribution to the EU is Germany's, although it wouldn't be if the rebate went entirely.
You definitely understand nothing. This rebate isn't as much a matter of money as of principle. Do you know how much the EU's budget represents for each country? Hardly 1% of their GDP. So I couldn't care less about your money. The UK was granted an advantage 20 years ago when its economy was poor. Today it's no longer relevant. Period.

[Marcellus]

You definitely understand nothing. This rebate isn't as much a matter of money as of principle. Do you know how much the EU's budget represents for each country? Hardly 1% of their GDP. So I couldn't care less about your money. The UK was granted an advantage 20 years ago when its economy was poor. Today it's no longer relevant. Period.

I clarify the facts about the size of Britain's contributions and I get insulted...lovely. I don't actually support the rebate in the long term. However, continuing to spend over 40% of the EU budget on one small sector of Europe's economy simply can't continue. A review of the whole EU budget is needed, and the budget deal achieves this.

[Ldvs]

I clarify the facts about the size of Britain's contributions and I get insulted...lovely.
If you felt insulted then I apologise. Yet who isn't aware of these facts? When the UK is crying all over the place for 20 years one can barely ignore it.


I don't actually support the rebate in the long term.
What is exactly "long term" in Brittish? Is 20 years short term perhaps?


However, continuing to spend over 40% of the EU budget on one small sector of Europe's economy simply can't continue.
I definitely agree and didn't hide it. Most of the French agree. But try to make politicians stop fighting over potential electors...

[Marcellus]

If you felt insulted then I apologise. Yet who isn't aware of these facts? When the UK is crying all over the place for 20 years one can barely ignore it.

No problem - I just felt slightly annoyed at being accused of 'understand[ing] nothing' when I was stating only facts, not my opinion.


What is exactly "long term" in Brittish? Is 20 years short term perhaps?

I support the rebate as a bargaining tool to reduce the CAP. Therefore, the short term is the time up until the EU budget is reformed to be much more up to date.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The UK needs to stay.

I mean, what would become of them poor British if we were to abandon them to their fate? Should they join the US as the 51st, 52nd, 53rd and 54th state respectively? They already regret being Bush' poodle.

Should we leave them to their illusions of a revived commonwealth and let them forever cling on to bygone era's of glory? It's the 21st century already and they have barely realised the twentieth came and passed.

Should we just abandon their tiny island to the currents of the seas and let them drift helplessly upon the currents of history?

I say not. They deserve our firm hand and guidance.

[Louis VI the Fat]

More seriously, Britain is one of the defining nations of Europe, and I can't imagine an EU without it, really. Maybe we should change the name to the Continental Union otherwise.

I wouldn't disfavour a 'stacked' EU, with different levels of membership. The original six should be able to intensify their cooperation; the newest members can get a less far-reaching membership; and the UK, Norway, Switzerland and Turkey can limit their membership to a good package of trade, defense and economic treaties.

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Finally, the last but not the least, the rest Europe won't be as threatened by british food as it is right now.
Sorry, but I vastly prefer British food to French food. French food made me physically sick last time I had it, so, yeah.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Sorry, but I vastly prefer British food to French food. French food made me physically sick last time I had it, so, yeah.Oh, you were not physically sick - the physical sensation you felt were your taste buds being bombarded with refined aromas for the first time in their lives.

[Meneldil]

With the rebate (as it stood), the total contribution from France was indeed larger than the UK's contribution. Without the rebate the UK's total contribution would be slightly larger. However, France gets a lot more money back from the EU than the UK does, meaning that, even with the rebate as it stood, Britain makes a larger net contribution than France does. Without the rebate, it would be massively larger. However, by far the largest net contribution to the EU is Germany's, although it wouldn't be if the rebate went entirely.

I basically agree with everything you said. If it was up to me, the CAP would decrease from 40% to 10% of the EU budget at best, cause IMHO, there are more important things to do than supporting our farmers.


Sorry, but I vastly prefer British food to French food. French food made me physically sick last time I had it, so, yeah.

Sorry, but as an American, I don't think you are entitled to say what is good food and what is not. I mean, you're the country that invented Coca Cola and McDonald, no ? :san_tongue:

[ShadesWolf]

The UK needs to stay.

I mean, what would become of them poor British if we were to abandon them to their fate? Should they join the US as the 51st, 52nd, 53rd and 54th state respectively? They already regret being Bush' poodle.

Should we leave them to their illusions of a revived commonwealth and let them forever cling on to bygone era's of glory? It's the 21st century already and they have barely realised the twentieth came and passed.

Should we just abandon their tiny island to the currents of the seas and let them drift helplessly upon the currents of history?

I say not. They deserve our firm hand and guidance.

I would far be happier if that was the choice be part of Europe or become an US state. I know which way I would vote.

and as for barely realising the 20th cent came and passed we remember it on Nov 11th every year

[bmolsson]

Sorry, but as an American, I don't think you are entitled to say what is good food and what is not. I mean, you're the country that invented Coca Cola and McDonald, no ? :san_tongue:

Priceless !!! :san_laugh:

[Kaiser of Arabia]

I basically agree with everything you said. If it was up to me, the CAP would decrease from 40% to 10% of the EU budget at best, cause IMHO, there are more important things to do than supporting our farmers.



Sorry, but as an American, I don't think you are entitled to say what is good food and what is not. I mean, you're the country that invented Coca Cola and McDonald, no ? :san_tongue:
Sorry, but without us there would be no French food. Just Bratwurst. Which I can live with. I love Bratwurst. And all wursts. French food's disgusting, except French Dressing, which most likely isn't even French.

Oh, and Coca Cola kicks the crap out of French Whine.

Though, I admit, MezzoMix beats both.

[English assassin]

Oh, and Coca Cola kicks the crap out of French Wine.

Next time I feel I need a reason to fear American global domination...

Note to the rest of the EU: you mustn't feel we don't like you. We do. We just don't want you setting our taxes for us.

We tried this "taxation without representation" lark ourselves once you know. It had most unfortunate consequences....(see "American global domination" above)

IMHO the politics of this are that the Franco-German axis has been able to ignore the views of the UK (which admittedly are a minority in the EU) and drive its own agenda for many years. Now, with enlargement, the faltering German economy, and the increasingly obvious fact that the European social model is suicide in a global economy, it can't. And apparently some (Chirac, anyway) are annoyed that, having had its wishes ignored for 34 years, the UK is pretty sceptical about the EU.

Never mind though. If the Chinese and Indian economies carry on growing as they are and if we don't sort our acts out the whole of Europe will be a global irrelevance soon enough.