Baldurs Gate 2 [Archive]

Mooks

12-20-2005, 13:41

Anyone ever played this old old game? This game has to be the best RPG PC game of all time, anyone thats beat it has to agree with me. You basically have more freedom and choices, and more adventures then most other games. Although the goal is clear, the rest isnt. You can tell people to go f*ck themselves or be really nice (You cant litterly tell them that but you get my point)

This game is realllly old, and is forgotten realms (Which that means its DnG fantasy sort, elves dwarves halflings you name it).

Mount Suribachi

12-20-2005, 13:55

Hi there holybandit. This should probly be in The Arena, but I'm sure the mods will decide on that ~:)

As for BG2, there are a lot of hardcore RPG fans on this board, if you take a look in The Arena, there are a lot of threads discussing subjects such as the best RPG.

I played it right through with my Dragon Slayer, Lady Deburah of the Most Noble Order of the Radiant Heart, and I had a blast doing it. Whilst I think it is one of the best RPGs of all time, I don't think it is the best. My choice would be either Planescape : Torment, or Knights of the Old Republic. The former has superb character development, and the NPCs are brilliant, along with superb dialogoue and story. No other game has produced the depth of emotional response in me as PST. As for KOTOR, its Star Wars, its lovely 3D graphics, its superb voice acting, its interesting characters, its great storyline, its superb plot twists (the Kaiser Soze moment), its recognosibly Bioware and its polished to a high gleaming shine.

But PST has the edge for me ~:)

Mooks

12-20-2005, 14:00

Antagonist

12-20-2005, 14:03

Yes, that was an enjoyable game. I kept meaning to get the expansion (Throne of Bhaal) but I never got round to it. I don't think it's that old though, it must be from around 2000? Heh, even that is coming up on 6 years old now, perhaps you're right.

I don't know if I'd call it the best game of all time though, there's plenty of worthy offerings in that genre. The Icewind Dale series uses the same engine and is from around the same time, it's more combat-orientated and I didn't much care for it. I suppose you could call Neverwinter Nights BG2's successor, but I don't think it lives up to it in most ways. I loved Planescape Torment though. It isn't as rounded as BG2 (combat isn't very important in it) but the character interaction and choices are better, IMO. It also has a really unique setting which I found very refreshing. For older games, Fallout has a fairly similar structure and is really cool.

And if you like that sort of concept of choices and freedom and character interaction within the bounds of a storyline you might also try games like Vampire: Bloodlines or Deus Ex, which combine this with first-person action.

Antagonist

Revenant69

12-20-2005, 14:10

Yeah BG2 is a great game more so with the expansion Throne of Bhaal. But out of all of the Black Isle RPG games I single out the Planescape: Torment - a real masterpiece if you ask me. Planescape: Torment has focused more on the story and character interaction, it didn't have that much combat compared to BG2.

In Planescape:Torment you often saved before talking to an NPC as dialogue could sometimes have severe consequences. What can I say, great game - a true masterpiece.

professorspatula

12-20-2005, 16:49

BG2 is a very good game, but I prefer Fallout 2. I found the humour in FO2 to be great and the atmosphere was good throughout. The scope for replaying the game was pretty big, as you could play as a nice guy, or really evily and screw up other people's lives by marrying an inbred and then pimping her! As well as getting up to all kinds of other mischief, which all led to loads of different ending sequences where you find out how your actions have affected the world. I also prefer the post apocalyptic landscape to BG2's fantasy setting. Plus blowing someone's head off at close range with a double barrelled shotgun beats toasting another goblin with a magic missile!

My favourite RPG of all time is Ultima 7 - well both U7 part I & II. They're not stat heavy games, nor combat orientated, but they're great adventures in a world that goes on regardless of what you do, and there's always new things to discover and a rich history to uncover amongst the many books and well written dialogues. It's one of the few games where characters actually have 'lives' of their own: they get up, go to work, pop into the tavern for lunch, then go back to work, have dinner, go to a religious meeting, then sneak their lover's into their bed whilst their partner doesn't know! For a game that was released back in 1991/2 it's a shame more games haven't tried to create a living world. Imagine after 14 years how much more indepth and realistic the worlds could be, and then thump your fist in frustration when big developers release dire non-dynamic game worlds like in Morrowind. What a load of nonsense that was.

Going back to BG2, it's definitely an improvement over BG1. BG1 was incredibly slow to get into, and it wasn't until after Chapter 3 that you were strong enough to take on anything bigger than a Goat, and then it was Chapter 6 that things finally picked up pace and the strong storyline enthralled the player. BG2 has a good atmosphere throughout and a strong storyline, and lots of dungeon crawling, but the towns still seem a bit 'stagnant' and everything is very tightly scripted. The fact that you can play as many different types of character and have lots of combinations of npcs that bicker and argue with one another overcomes much of that though. Which is something lacking in Neverwinter Nights - a game so utterly tedious and lacking in life and vitality, that I feel like I'd be overcharging someone if I gave it to them for free.

As to Planescape - that's a game I bought off ebay last year as I'd heard it was something special, but I've struggled to get into it. It's all a bit far removed from reality for my liking at the mo, but it shows some signs of promising things to come. I'll definitely play it through at least once.

Mount Suribachi

12-20-2005, 17:15

Professor, I must confess PST is quite hard to get into at first. I bought it, struggled to get past the first bit of the game and gave up. I picked it up a couple of years later and played it through from start to finish non-stop. Just remember that under the strange interface and style, it has exactly the same game mechanics as the other Bioware AD&D games (same goes for KOTOR).

Conqueror

12-20-2005, 21:50

PST is not a traditional style fantasy, that's true. It would definetly appear pretty alien to those who do not already know the setting. A good thing to do early on in the game is to go to the bar in the South-Eastern Hive, and talk to the planewalker guy (forget his name, the one with beard) in there, ask him to explain the planes. That should at least give you some kind of idea of the kind of world your character is in. Another thing, once you get to Clerk's Ward go to the Civic Festhall in there and attend the lecture about afterlife (you can do some crazy things to mess with the lecturer's head, too!).

Mooks

12-21-2005, 01:48

Umm ill have to try out some of these games.

And NWN blows in my perspective, the game has no choices and multiplayer sucks even worse. They made it so you can make your own weapons and armor, and that means basically everyone has super uber weapons and it lags when someone duels...

Maybe someone could point out a site to some of the good quality rpg's out there?

Elthore

12-21-2005, 02:32

havent read the rest of the thread, but...

Bg2 rocks, the expansion is well worth the time too, really finishes off the story in full D&D grandness

Icewinddale 2 is pretty badass as well, its 3rd gen rules, but the new rules seem to work nicely on the computer.

edit(after having read the thread): bg2 is great singleplayer, but seems pretty slow multiplayer, thats where IWD2 really shines, if you're playing with a buncha others controlling individual characters d&d style

Colhir

12-21-2005, 02:49

i'm sure someone has already said this but MORROWIND!!!!! as much as baldurs gate is good well errr.... morrowind is better :san_laugh:

The Wizard

12-21-2005, 03:00

BG2 is the best game ever, period. I've never hated a video game villain more, or been moved so much by the plight of my heroes, than in this game. There is so much to do, and so much fun stuff to do. Just about every 'famous' Forgotten Realms character comes along in the series.

As well as that, the game simply has killed combat. Tactical, thought-requiring, in other words just plain challenging, I had great fun trying to find out how to beat Tanova, or Bodhi, or Kangaxx the Demi-Lich (god-DAMN he was hard :san_grin: ), even if I died a hundred times 'till I realized the solution. BG2's combat was so much more involving and interesting than Diablo's or NWN's. Puzzle-work was also great, if a bit far apart.

Then there's the story... wow. Characters were amazing (right, Boo? :san_grin: ), storyline was amazing, villains were amazing, plots were amazing (especially those in Ust Natha)... in short, I was never so drawn into a story of high fantasy before.

I'm finally getting ToB soon, so that'll be a blast. Probably gonna get myself the Icewind Dale Collection as well. Planescape: Torment never drew me in half as much as BG or BG2 did.

Malrubius

12-21-2005, 04:22

Big Ultima player here; BG2 is great, as well. Many hours spent on both these games. Never got too far in the plotlines, I spent too much time wandering around seeing what people were doing and talking to people.

RemusAvenged

12-21-2005, 04:23

BG2 Rocks and Torment is sweet too. Those games definately have a whole party approach I haven't found in other RPGs.

How about a Forgotten Realms setup TW4?
What could possibly be better then a Dark Elf unit?

Mount Suribachi

12-21-2005, 14:48

i'm sure someone has already said this but MORROWIND!!!!! as much as baldurs gate is good well errr.... morrowind is better :san_laugh:

sure, apart from the lack of NPCs, and utterly shallow conversation.... :san_wink:

Microwavegerbil

12-21-2005, 21:39

Last time I tried PS:T I had a very hard time getting into it, but maybe I'll have to give it another crack. Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate II though, they had me from the start. More so in BG2, the character just have so much depth. Everyone has their own personality, and you grow attached to their little quirks (or become annoyed by them). You can' help but have a deep hatred for Irenicus, or feel like a complete badass while joining Sarevok to kill your siblings.

I've never felt more immersed in a game, and if those of you that have played both and prefer PS:T I know I absolutely have to give it another try.

Mount Suribachi

12-22-2005, 10:26

oh you definately should - I don't want to spoil anything for you, but the NPCs in PST have even more depth to them, and your character The Nameless One (TNO), well, lets just say he's done some pretty nasty things in the past and you meet a lot of people who bear the physical and psychological scars that you've inflicted. I spent most of the game trying to right the wrongs I'd done, but thats not always possible...

When you create your character, be sure to max out on intelligence and wisdom to get the best and most detailed and more conservation choices. You can spend an hour or more stuck in a conversation.

Vladimir

12-22-2005, 14:21

I did like Morrowind a lot but my love of Planescape:Torments my soul :san_cool: , the whole BG series is an epic I was proud to experience from beginning to end. Planescape took a while to get into but you need to keep your mind open and talk, talk, talk... I don't think I'll ever experience anything like it (outside of real life that is, truth can be stranger than fiction :san_wink: ),

Microwavegerbil

12-23-2005, 03:45

One question about PS:T. Without givine me too many spoilers, is it possible to convincingly play as an evil character? Or are you pretty much lead towards a path of good, even if you're not. As a reference, I consider Baldur's Gate I and II to be pretty able to handle an evil character, though the storyline definitely leans you toward a good path. Such as the situation where you can side with Bodhi, but you eventually have to join the Shadow Thieves and play out the "good" path anyway.

Conqueror

12-23-2005, 13:07

Compared to Baldur's Gate games, PS:T gives much more freedom in making such decisions. The main quest of the game is more about a personal discovery than about changing the world or facing some external enemy. But enough about that, before I get too spoilerish...

econ21

12-23-2005, 15:05

Holybandit, I share your enthusiasm for BG2. It is outstanding. Among the older games, you'll probably really like Fallout and Fallout 2, as they have similar virtues. As others have said, the more recent CRPGs in this tradition are arguably the two Star Wars KOTOR games and Vampire: Bloodlines (so good, it broke the company that made it :san_huh:).

I would not dismiss NWN unless you have played some of the player made modules - Crimson Tides of Tethyr is a recent, rather BG2ish module, with a twist that kicks almost as hard as that in KOTOR. The Shadowlords and Dreamcatcher series reaches a level of technical wizardry and professionalism that is quite staggering.

PS: Please watch your language - we have some members even younger than yourself.

Mount Suribachi

12-25-2005, 14:05

One question about PS:T. Without givine me too many spoilers, is it possible to convincingly play as an evil character? Or are you pretty much lead towards a path of good, even if you're not.

Absolutely yes. Unlike the other AD&D games that use that engine, your alignment isn't something you arbitarely set, it changes based upon the things you do and say. Furthermore, as you play the game you find out that TNO has done some incredibly despicable things in the past, and you have plenty opportunity to add to his fearsome reputation. Or you can try and put things right - but thats not always possible. Several (most? all?) of your NPC companions have been physically and emotionally scarred by you, and you can continue to use them in the most callous ways should you wish. Me I'm a nice guy, and I like to play the Paladin type in CRPGs, I've tried playing evil characters, and even though its just a game I can't bring myself to do it :san_smiley:

AntiochusIII

12-26-2005, 07:22

big developers release dire non-dynamic game worlds like in Morrowind. What a load of nonsense that was.Oblivion makes a big deal of the change from Morrowind's static world, you know. I'm waiting to see how "radiant" the engine will actually work and if they can keep that Herculean promise. Don't be so hard on Bethesda. Besides. They also have a lot of books in there, albeit they absolutely need to find more diverse styles of writing for their short stories. :san_wink:

BG2 was a gaming legend. So was Planescape: Torment. I used to play them sparingly on other people's computers (I didn't own them because...bah...long and boring informative posts involving the conditions of a third world country's software industry situation and characteristics don't belong here...) and is hoping to find copies of them once I get my new, shiny computer someday.

I tell you, those were magical times. I love conversation with NPCs and learning about the world I'm "in." (Even in Morrowind, I still try to croak out as much conversation as possible from the natives; also, Morrowind's modding community never disappoint. Some of the modders are having a huge project bringing the static NPC in cities to partial life right now and has been releasing many "completed" cities for download) Thus, Planescape: Torment was more to my liking. I just love the quest experience thing. That's what should be in Oblivion!

The only thing I hated about Baldur's Gate was how I need to have parties to win the game. The Morrowind "I'm alone fighting Dagoth Ur" style fits me better.

Conqueror

12-26-2005, 11:35

professorspatula

12-26-2005, 14:59

If anything, at times soloing in BG is easier than playing with a party. Perhaps not in the original BG where you are as weak as a kitten for much of the game and you can't carry much, but in BG2 a thief can sneak around in the shadows and backstab their way to victory with little trouble - well until a liche pops up.

AntiochusIII

12-27-2005, 02:43

You don't really need a party in Baldur's Gate. Playing with only one character (called "soloing") is very possible, just more difficult. Multiclassed characters are especially good for such playing. Try soloing a fighter/mage/thief in BG2, w/ the experience cap removed. You can use insane combos such as: Cast Mislead, cast Time Stop and then attack. Destroys anything that isn't unaffected by timestop and/or backstabs.

If anything, at times soloing in BG is easier than playing with a party. Perhaps not in the original BG where you are as weak as a kitten for much of the game and you can't carry much, but in BG2 a thief can sneak around in the shadows and backstab their way to victory with little trouble - well until a liche pops up.Interesting...I never knew that. I might try those someday. Thanks. :san_wink:

Microwavegerbil

12-27-2005, 05:33

As an update, I reinstalled my Planescape game, and with my high Wisdom and relatively high INT and CHA I'm having a blast. Questing a bit around the city, trying to beef up a bit before heading too deep into the dumps after Pharod. The most notable thing about this game is that it's so full. Almost every random guy has something unique to say or see, it really is incredible.

Unfortunately, I'm having to put it on break while I play Prince of Persia all the way through while also being unable to put down Super Mario Strikers.:san_rolleyes:

Mooks

12-27-2005, 09:10

Wow thanks for the comments. And the tips for new games (My birthday is on the 5th, and Im betting alot of these games are on ebay :san_wink: ).

Ajantis

12-28-2005, 06:39

i must admit i have to many hours into that game, as my name may suggest.

there are some great user-made mods and fixes to keep you playing for hours more at www.pocketplane.net

Microwavegerbil

12-28-2005, 14:31

Indeed there are, I played BG1 all the way through again after getting BG1Tutu(plays BG1 story through the BG2 game) and the BG1 banter packs.