The American South the birthplace of Rock & Roll?

[Strike For The South]

I think it was with the likes of Elvis Jerry lee Johnny Cash in the 50s really provided a base for it and later allowed bands like Skynard and the Eagels to be sucsesful

[Major Robert Dump]

You have a point, except I hated Elvis the man and Skynard will forever be tainted for me because of wife-beater t-shirts and mullets.

I would be more inclined to say it started in Britain and SOLD in america, with white kids being the number one consumer of the music. I would also say it sold more in the north than the south.

Perhaps you meant "american rock"

[IrishMike]

Rock sold more in the north than in the south..... Me thinks this is crazy talk. But yeah Original American Rock, is southern rock, unless you wanna talk about that crazy San Fran scene down there in the 60's. Plus when one things southern rock, how can one forget the Allman Brothers band.

[Strike For The South]

You are thinking to much along the lines of modern rock which was heavily influneced by the british invasion of the 60s (another baby boomer mishap) That is still 10-15 years after these guys. Rock was first made by blending black R&B with Redneck bluegrass

[IrishMike]

Yeah I got you and your message strike. I think your right man, Elvis laid the way open for the rock with them crazy hips of his.

[Major Robert Dump]

North has more population, North has more suburbs and suburbs means bored spoiled kids who spend their parents disposabel income. Perhaps it was born in the south, but like it or not the Northeast and american West have long been the trendsetters when it comes to the country, even more so then than now.

I think we need to establish what we mean by "rock and roll" to find common ground here. You can't compare bands like the Stones to Skynard, or Elvis to the Eagles, or Jerry Lee to the Doors.

Early Rock and Roll IMO was bubble gum music meant to sell for the radio -- teens in particular -- with most songs not lasting over 3 minutes verse chorus verse chorus hook chorus.

[Samurai Waki]

..interesting question. True, Elvis did open the door to "Rock n' Roll" actually he pretty much coined the phrase, however, should his music today be more associated with rock or with country? I think he, and some of his other contemporaries such as Johnny Cash would be considered more "country" than "Rock", and the reason being is Nashville (which is where Mr. Elvis was born, and where he began his career) is considered the birthplace of country, and not Rock. Not only that, Elvis wasn't the inventor of Rock and Roll, he only gave it a voice, it's far more likely that Rock was invented by Jazz, and Blues musicians during the late 30s and 40s, but was never recognised because by and large, these groups were Black, and living in a segregated country. I think, Rock has a rather ubiquitous birth, being born in the slums of cities like New Orleans, Nashville, Chicago, New York City, and LA. However, Elvis did give rock a voice and a name, something it didn't have before.
The 'real' inventor of the sound as what we now know as Rock and Roll is generally considered Jimi Hendrix, a Black/Cherokee native of Canada. Who showed up on the Rock scene during 64' and 65', alongside the Beatles, who were also considered Rock and Roll, but being obviously a different sound then Elvis as well. So... the question still remains, was Rock as we know it, invented in the South by a Southern Man with an Easy Going Voice, by the lads from Liverpool, or from Jimi James and Blue Flames? well, it can only be surmised, that Rock and Roll isn't one single sound, but a broad scope of sounds under the same category. Elvis, and Mr. Cash gave birth to Rock and Rollers like Skynard, Steppin' Wolf, and Bob Seger. Whilst The Beatles gave birth to Rock and Rollers like the Guess Who, BTO, and Blue Oyster Cult. Mr Hendrix however set in motion the sound of Rock that we still listen to today, bands such as Pink Floyd, AC/DC, Led Zeppelin, Metallica, KISS, and Aerosmith, The Eagles, Journey, Nirvana and So so so many more. However, during the '80s there was a cultural revolution that came seemingly out of nowhere, known as the Punk Revolution, and with it an entirely different sound, and attitude, it was angrier, and heavier, but its roots still lie mostly with Hendrix and his offspring. Rock is more simply put, a reverberation of sounds, and until the late 80's-early 90's, most Rock was unique to the band, until the inevitable corporate take overs which followed. So now Rock as we hear it is manufactured, and mostly dull, and borrowed. But the sound still owes so much, to the Jazz expirimenters of the 30s, Elvis, The Beatles, and Hendrix in all about equal porportions.

Peace!

[monkian]

I think the American South is the birthplace of rock 'n' roll purely because its heavily infleunced by black/slave music.

I believe the first thing a record producer asked when he heard Elvis was

'is he black ?'


Though I'm not the first king of controversy/ I am the worst thing since Elvis Presley, to do Black Music so selfishly/ and use it to get myself wealthy Eminem

[Adrian II]

You are thinking to much along the lines of modern rock which was heavily influneced by the british invasion of the 60s (another baby boomer mishap) That is still 10-15 years after these guys. Rock was first made by blending black R&B with Redneck bluegrassAs far as I know its roots are certainly in the South, mostly in blues and (other) black jazz. We can talk all day about forerunners and firsts, but the whole thing started with syncopation and we all know where that came from. Mix that with traditional white immigrant folk music (Irish through German through Italian) and the elements are there.

BTW On the radio I heard someone mention a unique piece of classical music from about 1860-70 that used syncopation. I don't remember the title or the composer. Can anybody help me?

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

If anybody likes Gene Vincent, Carl Perkins etc. and has listened to all of their early music, you will realise that there is some incredible hillbilly sounds in rock'n'roll.

And the Johnny Burnette Trio are far, far better than early Elvis too (he apparently wanted to join them before he got started on his own), people should check them out.

[KukriKhan]

As far as I know its roots are certainly in the South, mostly in blues and (other) black jazz. We can talk all day about forerunners and firsts, but the whole thing started with syncopation and we all know where that came from. Mix that with traditional white immigrant folk music (Irish through German through Italian) and the elements are there.

BTW On the radio I heard someone mention a unique piece of classical music from about 1860-70 that used syncopation. I don't remember the title or the composer. Can anybody help me?

Maybe you're thinking of Stephen Foster http://www.pitt.edu/~amerimus/foster.htm
who employed "Ethiopian" beats and rythms in his popular music.

Rock 'n Roll started as Afro-Carib slave music, made homogenized by white composers looking for new sounds. So I guess one could say the "american south" (waaay south, including the caribbean) was its birthplace.

[solypsist]

school 'em, Kukri.

[Adrian II]

Maybe you're thinking of Stephen Foster http://www.pitt.edu/~amerimus/foster.htm
who employed "Ethiopian" beats and rythms in his popular music.I looked it up myself and Beethoven gets all the credit for using syncopation in the last movement of his 9th.

Well well, hey hey
Wadda ya say
I never looked at B. that way
(AdrianII, December 2005)

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I guess those black musician responsible for Rock'n'Roll must have been big fans of the Scots-Irish hillbilly sound then.

Edit: seriously, listen to some of the early stuff by white rock'n'roll musicians and tell me that it's just derived from slave music. Well, maybe the Irish slaves had an influence too...

[Del Arroyo]

My understanding of Rock 'n' Roll is that it was a blending of the influences of Blues and Bluegrass. Its roots most undeniably lie in the South. To suggest, for instance, that New York City or LA had anything at all to do with the early development of Rock and Roll is simply incorrect.

I have never heard anyone suggest, Kukri, that Rock and Roll had its origin in Carribean music, nor would this even seem to make sense. Listen to some early Rock and Roll-- it sounds like fast blues. The only American musical form (that I'm aware of) which has very much in common with anything from the Carribean is Jazz, which has many similarities to Mambo, Salsa, etc., and which has taken some inspiration from these Carribean forms and vice-versa.

Honestly, I've read weirder things in this thread than I'd ever dreamed I would read about anything musical. I must conclude that either the majority of posters here have been misinformed, or that I am crazy.

DA

[Samurai Waki]

Im Pretty sure your just crazy

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Rock Rules!!!

It's god music man...

Anthony....METALLICA BABY!!!:gring:

[Slyspy]

My understanding of Rock 'n' Roll is that it was a blending of the influences of Blues and Bluegrass. Its roots most undeniably lie in the South. To suggest, for instance, that New York City or LA had anything at all to do with the early development of Rock and Roll is simply incorrect.

I have never heard anyone suggest, Kukri, that Rock and Roll had its origin in Carribean music, nor would this even seem to make sense. Listen to some early Rock and Roll-- it sounds like fast blues. The only American musical form (that I'm aware of) which has very much in common with anything from the Carribean is Jazz, which has many similarities to Mambo, Salsa, etc., and which has taken some inspiration from these Carribean forms and vice-versa.

Honestly, I've read weirder things in this thread than I'd ever dreamed I would read about anything musical. I must conclude that either the majority of posters here have been misinformed, or that I am crazy.

DA

No, I think that you are quite correct.

[Tachikaze]

I hate to stroke Strike's regional pride (which seems to need stroking often), but rock could definitely be considered a southern form of music. But it is overwhelmingly, though not exclusively, an Afro-American form.

Here's a brief history.

You might trace rock's beginnings to West Africa. There were two strains of music that both fed American culture. One was the drumming of the Niger River basin. This provided the strong beat, either pronounced or tacit. It also brought in call-and-response. The other influence was Muslim string music from the Sahel, which you can hear in the kora music of the jele there. This has a distant relationship to Spanish guitar.

These two forms were important elements of Southern US former slaves in the late 1900s. It was responsible for the banjo, among other things.

Somewhere before 1890, Scots-Irish music was fused with the West African. This influenced melody, dance styles, and gave the music and bright, fast tempo.

Once this fusion occurred, the blues and jazz developed. Euro-American folk was influenced as well, and later brought about bluegrass.

Rock took its shape after WWII in the cities of both north and south where Afro-Americans migrated to join the growing industries at that time. The introduction of electric guitar had a role.

Perhaps the final piece neccessary before we actually had a distinct music form was the reintroduction of Euro-American folk, now called "country music" in its pop form, during the early '50s. This was key to the bi-racial character and popularity of rock and roll. This also ensured that rock would be played on both "white" and "race" radio stations.

The Afro-Cuban element was mostly a parallel development until the 1920s or 1930s. Jazz incorporated Cuban rhythms, and later rock absorbed them as well, most notably in the "Bo Diddley Beat".

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

what about the influence of Scottish Gaelic Psalm singing on Black gospel?

Edit: thought you may be interested is all

[Tachikaze]

what about the influence of Scottish Gaelic Psalm singing on Black gospel?

Edit: thought you may be interested is all

I think you could include that as part of the Scots-Irish music that they played in the latter half of the 19th Century. It is definitely important, and certainly one of my personal favorite aspects of rock.

Like American folk, gospel was reintroduced to rock later. It was one of the elements that were absorbed into rock's wonderfully flexible structure and style from other genres from the mid-1950s on. In this case, gospel seeded itself into rhythm and blues for a while before finding its way into rock via "crossover" artists. Like Afro-Cuban rhythm, rock and gospel ran parallel until gospel singers decided to go secular, often with disapproval from their church communities.

[InsaneApache]

"Rock and Roll" is/was negro slang for the act of copulation. Kinda graphic aint it? I'll bet the BBC don't know :gring:


Rock-and-Roll (räk'n roll') n. first so used (1951) by Alan Freed, Cleveland disc jockey, taken from the song "My Baby Rocks Me with a Steady Roll". The use of rock, roll, rock and roll, etc., with reference to sexual intercourse, is traditional in blues, a form of popular music that evolved in the 1950's from rhythm and blues, characterized by the use of electric guitars, a strong rhythm with an accent on the offbeat, and youth-oriented lyrics.

http://www.history-of-rock.com/

[Teleklos Archelaou]

My grandma's sister was in a talent-show with Elvis in elementary school. She lost. I think Elvis did too though. :embarassed:

I'm not kin to him as far as I can tell, but plenty of my kin grew up with plenty of his kin. Both poor farming families in the same small town and even smaller rural communities in the adjoining county in the years before he was born.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Rock Rules!!!

It's god music man...

Anthony....METALLICA BABY!!!:gring:
:2thumbsup: :thrasher: :yes:

i agree that southern rock has influenced the starting of rock n roll, but rock was at its height during the 70s with bands like
Pink"Best band ever and that includes all your modern rubbish" floyd
and the eagles

[Strike For The South]

the eagles

Where are they from?


TEXAS :2thumbsup:

[Del Arroyo]

Texas, however, is not a part of the South.

[Ianofsmeg16]

Where are they from?


TEXAS :2thumbsup:

I love the Eagles :2thumbsup:
Have you got many of their albums?

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Ian, SFTS

I reckon you two may appreciate this:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006408J/qid=1136050367/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-7689793-0504852?v=glance&s=music&n=507846

[Strike For The South]

Texas, however, is not a part of the South.

yes more than we are considerd anything else. (other than Texans)

@IAN I have 2 of there greatest hits albums:juggle2:

[Ianofsmeg16]

@IAN I have 2 of there greatest hits albums:juggle2:
I have Hell Freezes over on my mp3 player...what an album!:2thumbsup:

[GoreBag]

The South? Nah. I'm not going to say that it was all in St. Louis, but here's all you need to disprove that theory.

Chuck Berry.com (http://www.chuckberry.com/index.php)