You crazy Christians...

[Goofball]

I just can't figure you out sometimes.

I can understand (if not necessarily support) you bullying TV stations or other forms of media to halt the airing of porn since that flies in the face of your ideas of morality, but what could you possibly have against a show about a pastor having discussions with Jesus?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060105.windi5/BNStory/Entertainment/

Now, I am making one big assumption here, since I haven't seen the show. I am assuming that the show does not portray Jesus or Christianity in a negative light. If that is not the case, then all bets are off and I don't blame you for being offended by the show. Has anybody seen the show in question and if possible, can you shed some light?

By the way, I love this bit:


Duane Lammers, WTWO-TV's general manager, said he was exercising the station's right to reject network programming.
"If my action causes people in our community to pay more attention to what they watch on television, I have accomplished my mission," he said in a statement posted on the station's website.

Doubleplusgood thinking there. By not giving his viewers the opportunity to decide for themselves whether or not to watch a program, he is actually making them more aware of what they are not watching.

Nothing makes me happier than an idiot with a "mission..."

:wall:

[Scurvy]

hmm, im not christian but in the Uk it does sometimes seem unfair that Christians can ever get anything stopped or banned or anything, while other religous faiths (eg. Islam, Judaism) seem to be able to stop anything appearing on tv, or in theatre etc.

[Goofball]

hmm, im not christian but in the Uk it does sometimes seem unfair that Christians can ever get anything stopped or banned or anything, while other religous faiths (eg. Islam, Judaism) seem to be able to stop anything appearing on tv, or in theatre etc.

I'm not sure I understand (even if it's true) what that has to do with the topic of this thread.

[Redleg]

Without seeing a trailer on the show - it does seem a little overblown on its face.

[Devastatin Dave]

Without seeing a trailer on the show - it does seem a little overblown on its face.
I agree, overblown, much like the thread title...

[Ser Clegane]

Here is AFA's statement on the issue (http://www.afa.net/petitions/issuedetail.asp?id=175)


The main character is Daniel Webster, a drug-addicted Episcopal priest whose wife depends heavily on her mid-day martinis.

Webster regularly sees and talks with a very unconventional white-robed, bearded Jesus. The Webster family is rounded out by a 23-year-old homosexual Republican son, a 16-year-old daughter who is a drug dealer, and a 16-year-old adopted son who is having sex with the bishop's daughter. At the office, his lesbian secretary is sleeping with his sister-in-law.

If(!) this is an accurate description of the show I can undersand why some Christians might be offended.

PS: I agree that the thread title is a bit of a generalization...

[Redleg]

Here is AFA's statement on the issue (http://www.afa.net/petitions/issuedetail.asp?id=175)



If this is an accurate description of the show I can undersand why some Christians might be offended.

I would l like to see a trailer before jumping to conculsions about the show. However it looks more in line with how the TV show Desperate Housewives is done. Entertaining to some, troublesome to others.

http://www.nbc.com/The_Book_of_Daniel/

[Crazed Rabbit]

Crazy? Hardly. An pastor-actually, not a pastor, but just an actor-talking to another actor pretending to be Jesus? That means they're going to pretend they can put statements in the mouth of Jesus.


NBC Entertainment President Kevin Reilly told The New York Times last month that the show was intended to be thought-provoking.

Huh, I just found a much more detailed description of this show that should put to rest any ideas that Christians are being too easily offended:

How do they portray Christians?

NBC touts the show as a serious drama about Christian people and the Christian faith. The main character is Daniel Webster, a drug-addicted Episcopal priest whose wife depends heavily on her mid-day martinis.

The network and other press reports state that Webster regularly sees and talks with a very unconventional white-robed, bearded Jesus.

The Webster family is rounded out by a 23-year-old homosexual Republican son, a 16-year-old drug- dealing daughter and a 16-year-old adopted son who is having sex with the bishop’s daughter. Webster’s lesbian secretary is sleeping with his sister-in-law.

According to an article by Religion News Service, the series is written by Jack Kenny, a practicing homosexual, who describes himself as being "in Catholic recovery,” interested in Buddhist teachings about reincarnation, and unsure exactly how he defines God and/or Jesus.

"I don’t necessarily know that all the myth surrounding him (Jesus) is true,” Kenny said at the Television Critics Association’s summer press tour.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/28/114017.shtml

The prescence of Jesus, it seems, is hardly the begining of its offensiveness, and it looks like the person writing it has an axe to grind with Christianity.

Crazed Rabbit

[Goofball]

If(!) this is an accurate description of the show I can undersand why some Christians might be offended.

Perhaps, although there is still nothing there that portrays Jesus or Christianity in a negative light. If anything, the show's main character seems to be turning to Jesus for help in the midst of a serious personal crisis. Isn't that what JC is supposed to be there for?


PS: I agree that the thread title is a bit of a generalization...

Sorry if that title offended anybody. I meant it to be a kind of light-hearted joke, much like the title of another recent thread "you crazy canadians an ya sex parties," which, even though I am Canadian, I found to be quite funny and took in the spirit in which it was intended.

Edit: Changed "is" to "if"

[Goofball]

Crazy? Hardly. An pastor-actually, not a pastor, but just an actor-talking to another actor pretending to be Jesus? That means they're going to pretend they can put statements in the mouth of Jesus.

Much like all of the contributing authors of the New Testament.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Much like all of the contributing authors of the New Testament.Somehow I don't think you're on Don Wilemon's Christmas Card list.

[Ser Clegane]

Perhaps, although there is still nothing there that portrays Jesus or Christianity in a negative light. If anything, the show's main character seems to be turning to Jesus for help in the midst of a serious personal crisis. Isn't that what JC is supposed to be there for?

That's certainly one way to see it (and to judge it either way one would of course have to actually see the show).

Of course by portraying the pastor's family as it seems to be the case one could also argue that the show is taking a cheap shot at Christian families by implying that Christian morale is just facade behind which Sodom and Gomorrha rule.

While protests might be premature or over-the-top, I think the rationale behind it is understandable.

[Goofball]

That's certainly one way to see it (and to judge it either way one would of course have to actually see the show).

Of course by portraying the pastor's family as it seems to be the case one could also argue that the show is taking a cheap shot at Christian families by implying that Christian morale is just facade behind which Sodom and Gomorrha rule.

Point conceded.

But now I really would like to watch this show. I'm predicting it will be much along the lines of Seventh Heaven (my wife's favorite show) but with more realistic characters with real life problems. I hope it's not (as Redleg predicts) done along the lines of Desperate Housewives, as I find that show to be just about unwatchable.

[Redleg]

Point conceded.

But now I really would like to watch this show. I'm predicting it will be much along the lines of Seventh Heaven (my wife's favorite show) but with more realistic characters with real life problems. I hope it's not (as Redleg predicts) done along the lines of Desperate Housewives, as I find that show to be just about unwatchable.

Unfortunately my prediction might be even more correct - the trailer I found even has the same starting music as Desperate Housewives

They could of had an interesting premise for a show as you stated, but we all know Hollywood often has its own ideas - often bad.

[Devastatin Dave]

Perhaps, although there is still nothing there that portrays Jesus or Christianity in a negative light. If anything, the show's main character seems to be turning to Jesus for help in the midst of a serious personal crisis. Isn't that what JC is supposed to be there for?



Sorry if that title offended anybody. I meant it to be a kind of light-hearted joke, much like the title of another recent thread "you crazy canadians an ya sex parties," which, even though I am Canadian, I found to be quite funny and took in the spirit in which it was intended.

Edit: Changed "is" to "if"
I was being lighthearted as well, forgot to put a smiley in there.

From what I've read in this thread and the article is that this show would be offensive to many Christians. Would it be fair to make a comedy show of a black family on welfare, a single mother addicted to crack, with 15 kids from 15 separate fathers that only eats a diet of fried chicken and greens? I have to wonder if they would make this show, instead of it being a preacher they'd made him an Imam or a rabbi? The creator of this show, in my humble opinion has an agenda and an obvious dislike for Christians. He almost sounds like BP in another thread where he found it great that some people of Faith have to go to court now to defend their beliefs before a government court. Seems to me like many of this ilk, since they can't throw Christians into pits with lions anymore, are trying to find other ways to demean people who are Christian.. If they want to air it, fine. It will just be one more show I don't watch. Not because its offensive, because it will be like any other show on TV today trying to be edgy but only achieving stupidity.
Let the show air, just don't watch it if you don't like it.

[solypsist]

yeah my first inclination on seeing this thread title was to shut it down.



I agree, overblown, much like the thread title...

[Xiahou]

Much like all of the contributing authors of the New Testament.:rolleyes: *cough* cheapshot *cough* :rolleyes:

[GoreBag]

Denis Leary's Rescue Me has all the same elements to it. Why is this show so special?

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

I read a (radical Christian moralist) review of the show and one of the complaints was that Jesus was depicted as essentially approving of the negative (from a traditional Christian standpoint) behavior of some of the characters.

And the main character's father is also a pastor and is having an affair.

This (http://pluggedinonline.com/thisweekonly/a0002484.cfm) is the review I mentioned.


Since Daniel has such a direct line to "Jesus," who often appears to him out of thin air, the priest naturally asks for advice. What he gets in return are either platitudes or benevolent expressions of tolerance. What does Jesus say about Grace selling drugs? "She'll be fine, she's a good girl." About Adam's high school sexual romps? "He's a kid, let him be a kid." About Kevin sleeping with a girl because he's too nervous to tell her he's gay? "Kids, huh!?" That counsel is a long way from the holy compassion found in the Lord's instructions to the woman caught in adultery (in John 8): "Neither do I condemn you. Go now and leave your life of sin."

[Quietus]

While I learned from the .ORG that Christianity and Criticism don't mix, I do agree that portrayal of Christians in general in this show is thoroughly inaccurate and extremely negative, therefore untrue, unfair and eventually offensive.

This is regardless whether the Bible came from God or Man, the context and modern culture is not compatible with the program at all.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

yet again another example of chrisitans being criticized in a way that would be unacceptable were it aimed at anyother group.

[Al Khalifah]

I've seen a bit of it. It's almost like Family Guy, with Jesus as Brian.

I say almost, because its not funny.

Like a lot of television these days I suspect they are depending on an amount of shock value to generate viewers.

[Geoffrey S]

Does Life of Brian get shown on US tv?

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I was just reading the Bush bashing, very left wing alternatiuve newspaper around here.

They say the show is incredibly obnoxious and crap.
Note that this is a newspaper that merrily mocks Christians most of the time.

[Navaros]

Perhaps, although there is still nothing there that portrays Jesus or Christianity in a negative light.


Of course it is portraying Jesus in a negative light. The main characters of this show, like the main characters in any show, are supposed to be seen by the audience as "good guys" who you are supposed to root for. Hence linking such vile behaviours to "good guys" and then implying that Jesus himself would condone them is incredibly derogatory to Jesus and everything that God stands for.

Putting Jesus in any show where his presence is not supported by Bible-based information is in and of itself; sick. Because that just means that a twisted, evil human man (or group of men) are trying to put their own evil messages into the mouth of Jesus.

The fact that this show not only does that, but does that with a premise based on flagrantly spitting upon everything God stands for: makes this show go well beyond sick and into the realm of far too obscene to be made or viewed.

[Strike For The South]

navaros youre so silly

[Samurai Waki]

Wow. Navaros, I thought Christianity, the Bible, and Jesus were all a matter of personal interpretation, you really showed me differently. :laugh4:

In all seriousness though, this show does look kind of dumb.

[Tachikaze]

That means they're going to pretend they can put statements in the mouth of Jesus.
This seems to be one of the main activities of Christianity since Day One. Goofball said something similar, and he was right-on.

This does not mean I disagree with Crazed Rabbit's complaint. But I have the same complaint about the majority of Christian sects.

[kataphraktoi]

I know there are some people who have negative views about Christianity. No surprise there. WHat about Jesus of Nazareth? ANy negative views about him here in the org?

If he was here today speaking what he said in the New Testament, I'd say all the progressive Christian clergymen who accept gay marriage would call him intolerant :D
Not only that, they'd say he was bigoted and not inclusive of people of different "örientations".
In fact, they'd condemn Jesus.

FUnny that innit?

[Reenk Roink]

I know there are some people who have negative views about Christianity. No surprise there. WHat about Jesus of Nazareth? ANy negative views about him here in the org?

If he was here today speaking what he said in the New Testament, I'd say all the progressive Christian clergymen who accept gay marriage would call him intolerant :D
Not only that, they'd say he was bigoted and not inclusive of people of different "örientations".
In fact, they'd condemn Jesus.

FUnny that innit?

I never thought of it that way...:idea2:

[Tachikaze]

I know there are some people who have negative views about Christianity. No surprise there. WHat about Jesus of Nazareth? ANy negative views about him here in the org?

If he was here today speaking what he said in the New Testament, I'd say all the progressive Christian clergymen who accept gay marriage would call him intolerant :D
Not only that, they'd say he was bigoted and not inclusive of people of different "örientations".
In fact, they'd condemn Jesus.

FUnny that innit?
I don't remember Jesus saying anything against gay marriage. Enlighten me.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

I know there are some people who have negative views about Christianity. No surprise there. WHat about Jesus of Nazareth? ANy negative views about him here in the org?

If he was here today speaking what he said in the New Testament, I'd say all the progressive Christian clergymen who accept gay marriage would call him intolerant :D
Not only that, they'd say he was bigoted and not inclusive of people of different "örientations".
In fact, they'd condemn Jesus.

FUnny that innit?
he wan't bigoted, he hung out with tax collectors who back then were considered traiters, he saved the life of an adulterous woman and helped romans

this tv show seems like the latest in a long line of attacks against chritianity by people with an axe to grind. The world is full of it and it should be totally unacceptable it would be if they were targetting muslims, Jew, Gay people, in fact any race, creed, religious group or political group.

the fact is many of these attacks are self contradictory one minuite christians supposedly don't take their faith seriously as it seems is suggested in this tv show and the next we are brainwashed, deluded, miniuons out for war although they never say when jesus supposedly said this, But then who wouldn't fear a group whos golden rules are: love God ,and each other Terrifying! :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:

[Mongoose]

Shows like this should be allowed. But that goes both ways: If Someone wants to say something bad about muslims, then they have the right to say it, as long as there aren't any threats ofcourse.


Edit: When will I learn to proof read my posts?

[AntiochusIII]

Erm...has anyone actually seen parts of the show before commenting on how Christianity is such a poor, poor victim of butcherization? (I know perfectly well that is an invented word.)

Because if they do, then their opinions has a base, and I'll concede an axe for free.

And I'm getting tired of people complaining how (Jesus!) Christianity is being so unfairly attacked compare to peer institutions. The more they complain about that, the less valid that point is (which is actually rather valid at the start, considering the PC crowd that somehow infiltrated every single institution in the world lately...I think it's the Free Masons at work! :laugh4: ) I don't think I have ever been unfair in my share of criticism: my opinion has always been to allow you to criticize anything you want until you cross that line of harming others for your opinion. Heck, I criticize Buddhism, one of the least-criticized religions in the world.

[Tachikaze]

Christianity is one of the largest power bases in the world. It has spread throughout the world imposing its morals and rules. Am I exaggerating? Read the history of postwar Japan, which is not even a Christian nation. You'll see how the society was re-formed under Christian values.

I have little sympathy for that political institution, just as I have little sympathy for an aristocracy that is criticized and ridiculed by the powerless.

This idea of a "war on Christianity" is absurd. They whole society of the US is flavored with Christian values, including Christian celebrations that are official national holidays, which can't be said for the celebrations of any other religion here. Calvary crosses are everywhere, even on federal land on two mountaintops in San Diego County. There are abundant churches in every community and popular media abounds with Christmas/Easter stories, biblical epics, Johnny Hart comics, and Davy and Goliath.

Islam is far more slandered, marginalized, and misunderstood in the US.

[Lanemerkel1]

I don't remember Jesus saying anything against gay marriage. Enlighten me.



actually he did.

seeing as how he basically told Adam and Eve to have sex so the earth would be fruitful and multiply (which you can't do in same sex relationships) and he constituted marriage as a bond of one flesh, so that the two in question will be fruitful and multiply. Seeing as how you can't reproduce in same-sex marriages I think god did say something about it.

[Lanemerkel1]

Christianity is one of the largest power bases in the world. It has spread throughout the world imposing its morals and rules. Am I exaggerating? Read the history of postwar Japan, which is not even a Christian nation. You'll see how the society was re-formed under Christian values.

I have little sympathy for that political institution, just as I have little sympathy for an aristocracy that is criticized and ridiculed by the powerless.

This idea of a "war on Christianity" is absurd. They whole society of the US is flavored with Christian values, including Christian celebrations that are official national holidays, which can't be said for the celebrations of any other religion here. Calvary crosses are everywhere, even on federal land on two mountaintops in San Diego County. There are abundant churches in every community and popular media abounds with Christmas/Easter stories, biblical epics, Johnny Hart comics, and Davy and Goliath.

Islam is far more slandered, marginalized, and misunderstood in the US.




say that to the public schools here in Jasper.

the Christians didn't get off for Christmas but the Muslims sure got off for Rammadan

[solypsist]

jasper where? can you be more specific?

this sounds like something that is easy to verify, to see if this is true or if you're just posting falseties.


say that to the public schools here in Jasper.

the Christians didn't get off for Christmas but the Muslims sure got off for Rammadan

[Papewaio]

actually he did.

seeing as how he basically told Adam and Eve to have sex so the earth would be fruitful and multiply (which you can't do in same sex relationships) and he constituted marriage as a bond of one flesh, so that the two in question will be fruitful and multiply. Seeing as how you can't reproduce in same-sex marriages I think god did say something about it.

There is a huge difference between the Old Testament God [Wrath] and the New Testament Jesus [Love].

I would like to see a passage where Jesus attacks any group other then those in power attacking as hypocrites.

[Lanemerkel1]

jasper where? can you be more specific?

this sounds like something that is easy to verify, to see if this is true or if you're just posting falseties.


Indiana, or somewhere else in the state of Indiana, I'm homeschooled and I don't remember which one it was but it happened trust me

[Lanemerkel1]

There is a huge difference between the Old Testament God [Wrath] and the New Testament Jesus [Love].

I would like to see a passage where Jesus attacks any group other then those in power attacking as hypocrites.



dude, their the same thing.


anybody who knows have a pile of crap about what their talking about when they talk about Christianity knows that

[Papewaio]

One. Don't be so rude.

Two. Jesus brings in a whole new attitude to the Hebrew God. It would help if you compare and contrast the OT vs NT versions of God. One is very violent the other a hippy. Its like comparing Arnie vs Elmo.

Three. There is no place in the New Testament that Jesus attacks anyone, bar turning over the tables of vendors in the temple.

[Byzantine Mercenary]

Two. Jesus brings in a whole new attitude to the Hebrew God. It would help if you compare and contrast the OT vs NT versions of God. One is very violent the other a hippy. Its like comparing Arnie vs Elmo.


Yes, jesus says in the bible how he has come to rid Judaism of the incorrect teachings that have been added by people (i believe that he says somthing about uprooting the 'plants' of false teachings)

[Lanemerkel1]

One. Don't be so rude.

Two. Jesus brings in a whole new attitude to the Hebrew God. It would help if you compare and contrast the OT vs NT versions of God. One is very violent the other a hippy. Its like comparing Arnie vs Elmo.

Three. There is no place in the New Testament that Jesus attacks anyone, bar turning over the tables of vendors in the temple.



there are three parts of god

The Father (Jealous god an full of wrath)
The Son ( Peaceful Caring Part)
The Ghost (Nuertrality)



there is only one god but there is three parts of him, it's kind of like schizophrenia but the three all kive in harmony as the same god.
a god that can be full of wrath and anger at one person and then turn around and be the kindest person on earth at another

[Fragony]

Tis a funny thing. The king of family values, FOX, kind of went AWOL here in Holland, as in A W(H)OLE LOT OF PORN starting from 9:30. I wonder what John Gibson has to say about that.

[Goofball]

Well, we can end the speculation now. I saw the show in the weekend. Actually, that's not entirely true. My wife was watching it while I was cooking dinner, so I caught only bits and pieces of it. From what I saw, my opinion stands: all this show did was portray Christians as real people with real (if slightly outlandish) life problems, coping with them the best they could. Yes, Jesus was portrayed as a bit of a smart-arse, but he was still portrayed as a forgiving, loving Jesus, only slightly more up to date that he was in the time of the Romans.

I made a point of asking my wife (she is quite a devout Catholic) how she felt about how Jesus and Christians were portrayed in the show. She said that if Jesus were here today, that is what she would imagine, and even hope, that he would be like.

Anyone else see the show? Impressions?

[Redleg]

Well, we can end the speculation now. I saw the show in the weekend. Actually, that's not entirely true. My wife was watching it while I was cooking dinner, so I caught only bits and pieces of it. From what I saw, my opinion stands: all this show did was portray Christians as real people with real (if slightly outlandish) life problems, coping with them the best they could. Yes, Jesus was portrayed as a bit of a smart-arse, but he was still portrayed as a forgiving, loving Jesus, only slightly more up to date that he was in the time of the Romans.

I made a point of asking my wife (she is quite a devout Catholic) how she felt about how Jesus and Christians were portrayed in the show. She said that if Jesus were here today, that is what she would imagine, and even hope, that he would be like.

Anyone else see the show? Impressions?

Alas I work swing shift - so I am unable to watch much primetime TV if I was so inclined.

If you go to the Website for the show - you can see the comments of the different types of viewers. (The link is available in a previous post)

Some of the responses are rather sad if you ask me, typical unthinking responses from both sides.

Well eventually I will take a Friday off - if the show is still around I might take a view of it to see if the show is as anti-Christian as some are making it out to be.

However right now I just don't see it. Much ado about nothing seems to be the gest that I am getting right now.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

No TIVO or VCR Redleg?

[Lanemerkel1]

my mom and dad watched it and they called it the biggest pun on Christianity in world history

[Tachikaze]

there are three parts of god

The Father (Jealous god an full of wrath)
The Son ( Peaceful Caring Part)
The Ghost (Nuertrality)



there is only one god but there is three parts of him, it's kind of like schizophrenia but the three all kive in harmony as the same god.
a god that can be full of wrath and anger at one person and then turn around and be the kindest person on earth at another
Wow, what a weak god you described! This sounds nothing like the onmipresent, omniscient creator of the universe that would be more befitting. How can an all-powerful creator of the universe have emotions!

The god you described sounds like a very human, spoiled brat or a manic-depressive. It sounds like one of the Greco-Roman gods, especially Zeus/Jupiter.

Since I believe Jesus was a man and God is not, we have no common ground to discuss this topic.

[Redleg]

No TIVO or VCR Redleg?

No desire to record.

[Goofball]

my mom and dad watched it and they called it the biggest pun on Christianity in world history

Then they have obviously never seen (in no particular order):

1) The Life of Brian
2) Bruce Almighty
3) Any of the Oh God movies
4) Heaven Can Wait
5) Angels in the Outfield
6) Dogma
7) Various episodes of South Park
8) Various episodes of Family Guy
9) Any episode of The 700 Club

I could probably go on if I wanted to bother Googling the topic, but those are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

At any rate, I disagree with your parents.

[Mongoose]

"8) Various episodes of Family Guy"

At the risk of getting people mad by posting the same link too much...
Example:http://media.putfile.com/North_by_North_Quahog_pt2


Wasn't Family Guy already cancelled?

I'm not sure why people are botherd by shows that make fun of Christians or other groups. It's not as if people are gonig to watch one of these shows and start thinking that Jesus spent most of his time fighting gangsters or going on car chases with a street smart black partner...

Edit: I need to start proof reading my posts.

[Reenk Roink]

I'm not sure why people are botherd by shows that make fun of Christians or other groups. It's not as if people are gonig to watch one of these shows and start thinking that Jesus spent most of his time fighting gangsters or going on car chases with a street smart black partner...



I can certainly see why some Christians would be offended by the stuff on TV...

PS: Family Guy -- Overrated ~D

[AntiochusIII]

PS: Family Guy -- Hilarious ~DFixed. :2thumbsup:

[Lanemerkel1]

Then they have obviously never seen (in no particular order):

1) The Life of Brian
2) Bruce Almighty
3) Oh God
4) Heaven Can Wait
5) Angels in the Outfield
6) Dogma
7) South Park
8) Family Guy
9) The 700 Club

I could probably go on if I wanted to bother Googling the topic, but those are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

At any rate, I disagree with your parents.


we watched 2, 5, and a couple of 8, my dad saw 7 but the rest we haven't watched.


and Bruce Almighty wasn't a pun on christianity, it was god giving a few of his powers to an otherwise mortal person to show him how hard his job was, Family Guy SUCKED, South Park trailers SUCK, and Angels in the outfield? everyone at my church loves it, I haven't watched it myself but from what I've read it's just some angels from heaven helping out the angels from anaheim

[Goofball]

and Bruce Almighty wasn't a pun on christianity, it was god giving a few of his powers to an otherwise mortal person to show him how hard his job was

Really? So you didn't find the fact that the movie portrayed the majority of Christians as mammon-hungry, lucre-driven people who prayed to God not for world peace or the end of hunger, but instead for the winning lottery numbers?


Family Guy SUCKED, South Park trailers SUCK,

I have just been pwned. The breadth and depth of your analyses leave me gawking in stunned admiration. I particularly admire the fact that you are able to provide such an in depth critique of a show after having only seen the trailers. I doff my hat to you sir...


and Angels in the outfield? everyone at my church loves it, I haven't watched it myself but from what I've read it's just some angels from heaven helping out the angels from anaheim

I see.

So a show portraying Jesus as a helping a preacher with life problems he is struggling with is a mockery of Christianity, but a show portraying heavenly angels as having nothing better to do with their time (in our amazingly in-need-of-help world) than helping a baseball team win a penant does not mock Christianity whatsoever.

:dizzy2:

[Reenk Roink]

Fixed. :2thumbsup:

I'll admit, some good moments, like "the only straight cop in Quahog" :laugh4:

But gah, if I've ever seen a more unambiguous Simpsons clone....

But I digress...

[Lanemerkel1]

So a show portraying Jesus as a helping a preacher with life problems he is struggling with is a mockery of Christianity, but a show portraying heavenly angels as having nothing better to do with their time (in our amazingly in-need-of-help world) than helping a baseball team win a penant does not mock Christianity whatsoever.

:dizzy2:



helping? according to my Parents Jesus didn't do A SINGLE THING that is biblicaly correct

[Strike For The South]

helping? according to my Parents Jesus didn't do A SINGLE THING that is biblicaly correct

Does this statement undermined the whole base of christian belief?

[Byzantine Mercenary]

whats wrong with the life of brian?

unfortunately this show is not aired in my country so i cannot comment directly on it but didn't the guy who made not like christians?

[Lanemerkel1]

whats wrong with the life of brian?

unfortunately this show is not aired in my country so i cannot comment directly on it but didn't the guy who made not like christians?



the guy who made it book of daniel is an atheist homosexual and yes after a review from my parents I would have to say it is the biggest pu on christianity in recent if not world history

[Lanemerkel1]

Does this statement undermined the whole base of christian belief?


and how would it? :headscratch:

the "whole base" of christian belief IS the bible so if anything it would be OVERminding, not undermining it :inquisitive:

[Strike For The South]

nm misread a post sorry

[Mongoose]

Lanemerkel1

"My parents said..." Isn't a valid source of information. find some quotes or something from the show to back up your statements, not just (Probably biased) hearsay.

[Lanemerkel1]

Lanemerkel1

"My parents said..." Isn't a valid source of information. find some quotes or something from the show to back up your statements, not just (Probably biased) hearsay.



considering they liked half of what you called "puns" on christianity I don't think it's biased

[Goofball]

helping? according to my Parents Jesus didn't do A SINGLE THING that is biblicaly correct

Examples please?

Oh, wait. You haven"t seen the show.

*waits for Lanemerkel1 to go ask his Mommy and Daddy what he should say now*

[Lanemerkel1]

Examples please?

Oh, wait. You haven"t seen the show.

*waits for Lanemerkel1 to go ask his Mommy and Daddy what he should say now*



sorry, I'm not going to because the dude that wrote is a known hater of christianity, and atheist and a homosexual. I am not doing anything that has to do with a gay person.

and no I'm not going to ask what I'm going to say because this discussion is OVER.

[Watchman]

Such a wonderfully narrow mind.

[Lanemerkel1]

Such a wonderfully narrow mind.


....sorry but I don't watch anything thought up by a homo

[Reenk Roink]

Such a wonderfully narrow mind.

What do you base this on...?

EDIT: My fault, I completely misread the last few posts...

[Strike For The South]

nm...

[Ser Clegane]

....sorry but I don't watch anything thought up by a homo

Just out of curiosity - how exactly do you make sure that the programmes you watch have not been "thought up by a homo"?

Seems to require an awful lot of research...

[Lanemerkel1]

Just out of curiosity - how exactly do you make sure that the programmes you watch have not been "thought up by a homo"?

Seems to require an awful lot of research...




I try to figure out what I'm watching before I watch it

[Ser Clegane]

I try to figure out what I'm watching before I watch it

So much I gathered - but how do you find out about the sexual orientation of TV producers/writers?

[Strike For The South]

I try to figure out what I'm watching before I watch it

How do you know? I dont know about you but when I wacth a movie a red screen dosent pop up and say "THIS MOVIE WAS MADE BY A GAY IF YOUR GOOD CHRISTIAN EYES DONT WANT TO BE GOUGED OUT LEAVE NOW!" So how do ya know. Tellme your pshycic powers:laugh4:

[Slyspy]

The sagacity provided by home schooling by religious parents is indeed amazing. Still, no doubt the kid is still rather young and naive so give him a chance. The internet should provide an eye opening sense of the wider world, even with parental control, too any closeted youngster.

On a more mature note, Family Guy OWNZ. Also The Life of Brian does not mock Jesus, but it does mock religious adherents in general. If you can't mock organised religion then what can you mock?

[Lanemerkel1]

How do you know? I dont know about you but when I wacth a movie a red screen dosent pop up and say "THIS MOVIE WAS MADE BY A GAY IF YOUR GOOD CHRISTIAN EYES DONT WANT TO BE GOUGED OUT LEAVE NOW!" So how do ya know. Tellme your pshycic powers:laugh4:



well looking the guys bio up on the web would be and idea.......

[Strike For The South]

well looking the guys bio up on the web would be and idea.......

If your that backwards and insular and scared of gays I feel for you man

A homophobe is the most useless thing you could be on this planet-Ron White

[Ser Clegane]

well looking the guys bio up on the web would be and idea.......

And you're actually doing that? :inquisitive:

Yeah ... right...

[Goofball]

....sorry but I don't watch anything thought up by a homo

That's unfortunate. Here are some people who's works you will have to pass up. I post these so that you will not accidentally corrupt yourself. No need to thank me, but be advised that this is by no means a complete listing. Be on your guard for further unidentified homosexuals who may have infiltrated themselves into the mainstream.

Hans Christian Andersen, Danish author of fairy tales
Billie Joe Armstrong, lead singer and guitarist of American punk band "Green Day," bisexual
Joan Baez, American singer, bisexual
Long John Baldry, British singer, musician, bisexual
James Baldwin, American author
Clive Barker, British/American author, director, artist
Sandra Bernhard, American comedian, singer, author and actor, bisexual
Leonard Bernstein, American composer and conductor
Truman Capote, American author
Tracy Chapman, American singer/songwriter
Douglas Coupland, Canadian Writer
Noel Coward, British writer
Ellen DeGeneres, American writer, comedian and actress
Melissa Etheridge, American musician
Timothy Findley, Canadian novelist and playwright
André Gide, French novelist and Nobel Laureate
Rob Halford, British singer (Judas Priest)
Billie Holiday+, American blues singer
Sir Elton John, British singer, musician, composer
Angelina Jolie, American actress, bisexual
Janis Joplin, American singer, bisexual
Jack Kerouac, American author, bisexual
k.d. lang, Canadian country and blues singer
Johnny Mathis, American singer
George Michael, British singer
Anaïs Nin, French author and diarist
Laurence Olivier, British actor, bisexual
Pink, American pop singer, bisexual
Cole Porter, American composer and lyricist
Socrates, Greek philosopher
Jimmy Somerville, British singer
Susan Sontag, American essayist and novelist
Dusty Springfield, British pop singer
Michael Stipe, American singer (R.E.M.)
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Russian composer
Andy Warhol, American artist
Walt Whitman, American poet
Oscar Wilde, Irish playwright
Virginia Woolf, British author

And my personal favorite:

Don't ever let me hear you singing America the Beautiful, because the woman who wrote it, Katharine Lee Bates, was also a practitioner of the love that dare not speak its name.

Have a nice life...

[Lanemerkel1]

That's unfortunate. Here are some people who's works you will have to pass up. I post these so that you will not accidentally corrupt yourself. No need to thank me, but be advised that this is by no means a complete listing. Be on your guard for further unidentified homosexuals who may have infiltrated themselves into the mainstream.

Hans Christian Andersen, Danish author of fairy tales
Billie Joe Armstrong, lead singer and guitarist of American punk band "Green Day," bisexual
Joan Baez, American singer, bisexual
Long John Baldry, British singer, musician, bisexual
James Baldwin, American author
Clive Barker, British/American author, director, artist
Sandra Bernhard, American comedian, singer, author and actor, bisexual
Leonard Bernstein, American composer and conductor
Truman Capote, American author
Tracy Chapman, American singer/songwriter
Douglas Coupland, Canadian Writer
Noel Coward, British writer
Ellen DeGeneres, American writer, comedian and actress
Melissa Etheridge, American musician
Timothy Findley, Canadian novelist and playwright
André Gide, French novelist and Nobel Laureate
Rob Halford, British singer (Judas Priest)
Billie Holiday+, American blues singer
Sir Elton John, British singer, musician, composer
Angelina Jolie, American actress, bisexual
Janis Joplin, American singer, bisexual
Jack Kerouac, American author, bisexual
k.d. lang, Canadian country and blues singer
Johnny Mathis, American singer
George Michael, British singer
Anaïs Nin, French author and diarist
Laurence Olivier, British actor, bisexual
Pink, American pop singer, bisexual
Cole Porter, American composer and lyricist
Socrates, Greek philosopher
Jimmy Somerville, British singer
Susan Sontag, American essayist and novelist
Dusty Springfield, British pop singer
Michael Stipe, American singer (R.E.M.)
Pyotr Ilyich Tchaikovsky, Russian composer
Andy Warhol, American artist
Walt Whitman, American poet
Oscar Wilde, Irish playwright
Virginia Woolf, British author

And my personal favorite:

Don't ever let me hear you singing America the Beautiful, because the woman who wrote it, Katharine Lee Bates, was also a practitioner of the love that dare not speak its name.

Have a nice life...



first of all I'm not much of a music or art guy so you can throw out all the singers, poets, and artists in there. plus I only listen to 3 groups of singers, all of them christian contemporary. Angalin Jolie made one little bitty stupid appearance in Sky Captain and the world of tomorrow and that's the only place I've even seen her. and patriotic songs? I only listen to christian patriotic songs and the star pangled banner, the only types of books I read are American Civil War/American Revolutionary Era and occasional books by G.A. Henty and Robert Kiyosaki, so I guess you can throw out the writers

what a pointless list.

[Strike For The South]

crazy fundies and there crazy beileifs:no:

[Lanemerkel1]

p.s. Goofball I would just like to say that I think your name fits you perfectly, nice choice!

[Goofball]

first of all I'm not much of a music or art guy so you can throw out all the singers, poets, and artists in there. plus I only listen to 3 groups of singers, all of them christian contemporary. Angalin Jolie made one little bitty stupid appearance in Sky Captain and the world of tomorrow and that's the only place I've even seen her. and patriotic songs? I only listen to christian patriotic songs and the star pangled banner, the only types of books I read are American Civil War/American Revolutionary Era and occasional books by G.A. Henty and Robert Kiyosaki, so I guess you can throw out the writers

what a pointless list.

Well I guess I'd better quit while I'm ahead then. I have no hope of ever coming out on top in a debate with such a well rounded individual as yourself.

[Slyspy]

Cripes. Perhaps narrow minded was an apt description after all. Never mind kid, it is not your fault. We cannot choose our parents. You are missing out though if you have never, and never will, experience the acting of Olivier, the wit of Wilde or the music of Tchaikovsky (to name just three from the list). The work of Jimmy Somerville, however, should be avoided at all costs by everyone.

[Mongoose]

considering they liked half of what you called "puns" on christianity I don't think it's biased


Trust me, I've tried to debate like that in the past. It doesn't work. People know when you're just blindly following what you've been taught. Do some research on your own to make sure you know what you're talking about. otherwise, you're going to eventually leave the community in disgrace and never go back.

This isn't a flame. just a friendly warning....

[Watchman]

What's the point in avoiding the works of people of the "wrong" sexual orientation, anyway ? Much of the time you'd be *very* hard pressed to find traces of it in there (although I will freely admit to wholly lacking the so-called "gaydar" which apparently rather helps recognizing such nuances; but then again I understand it's a skill mostly limited to the homosexuals themselves and straight people who spend a lot of time around them), and it's not like said orientation is exactly contagious...

More importantly, odds are you'll be missing out on some pretty good stuff for very silly reasons while still unwittingly being subjected to the works of closet homosexuals whose orientation you're unaware of, which rather seems to render the whole point moot.

[Don Corleone]

Actually, Lanemerkel might convince me.. if it means I never have to listen to "I'm Still Standing" or "Wake Me Up, Before you Go Go" again". Now Pink and Angelina Jolie being on that list.... hmmm, any home movies? ~:thumb:

All kidding aside, Lanemerkel, Goofball's list just extends to the arts & pop culture. But you're going to lead a very, very sheltered existence indeed if you refuse to expose yourself to any possible contributions offered to our cumulative knowledge base that were made by homosexuals. They've made proportional contributions to math, biology, chemistry, engineering...

Not to mention, condemning the person themself, not the sin they commit, is a very un-Christian attitude. God reserves judgement of people to himself. Of course you are free to judge an action as right or wrong, but you are supposed to love your brother in spite of his wrongs, not despise him because of them.

[Lanemerkel1]

Trust me, I've tried to debate like that in the past. It doesn't work. People know when you're just blindly following what you've been taught. Do some research on your own to make sure you know what you're talking about. otherwise, you're going to eventually leave the community in disgrace and never go back.

This isn't a flame. just a friendly warning....



I am in no way "blindly" following christianity


if I wanted to dump it I would have years ago.

[Goofball]

Not to mention, condemning the person themself, not the sin they commit, is a very un-Christian attitude. God reserves judgement of people to himself. Of course you are free to judge an action as right or wrong, but you are supposed to love your brother in spite of his wrongs, not despise him because of them.

Well said Don. When Christians preach that kind of message, it makes it extremely hard for us Godless heathens to find fault.

Good to have you back, by the way...

[Lanemerkel1]

Actually, Lanemerkel might convince me.. if it means I never have to listen to "I'm Still Standing" or "Wake Me Up, Before you Go Go" again". Now Pink and Angelina Jolie being on that list.... hmmm, any home movies? ~:thumb:

All kidding aside, Lanemerkel, Goofball's list just extends to the arts & pop culture. But you're going to lead a very, very sheltered existence indeed if you refuse to expose yourself to any possible contributions offered to our cumulative knowledge base that were made by homosexuals. They've made proportional contributions to math, biology, chemistry, engineering...

Not to mention, condemning the person themself, not the sin they commit, is a very un-Christian attitude. God reserves judgement of people to himself. Of course you are free to judge an action as right or wrong, but you are supposed to love your brother in spite of his wrongs, not despise him because of them.



I hate the things they do yes, but I don't hate them, however I believe god clearly stated homosexuality is wrong and I am not going to subject myself in those views or to watch a show that only makes fun of christianity in the highest sense of biased and completley wrong views.

[Goofball]

I hate the things they do yes, but I don't hate them

Erm...

From another thread:


instead of stating my oblivious hatred for gay people, I think I'll just stay out of this thread

:oops:

[Don Corleone]

Your decision about whether or not to actually watch the television show before you judge it to be anti-Christian is entirely up to you. I was speaking about your statement that you wanted nothing to do with anything created by homosexuals. We all have different defintions of 'love' and 'hate', but I think shunning not only an entire group of people but anything they've ever done in their lives hardly qualifies as the aggressive philos Christ and St. Paul command of us.

I found the movie "Dogma" to be incredibly blasphemous in parts. I also found it to be a vehicle that strengthed my faith. I haven't seen this particular show, and won't, because it's on at the same time as 'Beauty and the Geek'. I don't think need to see what appears to me to be "Desparate Pastors", but it seems like a fairly harmless concept. The only real issue I have the show would be people putting words into Christ's mouth that he didn't actually utter in scripture, even for the right reasons. By the same token, it's not meant to be taken as revealed truth, it's an interpretation.

Watch or don't, but let the anger go amigo.

[Lanemerkel1]

Erm...

From another thread:



:oops:



blah,



I always screw up typing


I meant to say Gayness or the things Gsy People do, but I'm just, blah stupid

[Watchman]

So, uh, where does it rub your butt any what they do with each other or how they explain the issue to God when the Final Judgement comes by, anyway ? It's their problem isn't it ?

[Goofball]

blah,



I always screw up typing


I meant to say Gayness or the things Gsy People do, but I'm just, blah stupid

Riiiiiihggggggghhhhhttttt.....

~:rolleyes:

[Don Corleone]

So, uh, where does it rub your butt any what they do with each other or how they explain the issue to God when the Final Judgement comes by, anyway ? It's their problem isn't it ?

More importantly, why aren't you worrying about what you're doing that offends Him, instead of what they're doing. I think He'd prefer you worry about yourself a little more, and others a little less.

My personal take on Matthew 7:3-5.

[Lanemerkel1]

More importantly, why aren't you worrying about what you're doing that offends Him, instead of what they're doing. I think He'd prefer you worry about yourself a little more, and others a little less.

My personal take on Matthew 7:3-5.



I do worry about myself.



I know no one on earth is perfect but that stuff is just.....wrong

[Watchman]

Why ?

[Reenk Roink]

Lanemerkel1: So you think it is wrong, others think it is right, or just do not agree with you...

You have stated your opinion once...and we heard you loud and clear...

[Don Corleone]

Well, I'm not trying to open a can of worms here, but the behavior itself isn't open to interpretation: by almost any reading of the bible, it is a disallowed practice. One of many I might add before everyone goes reaching for the torches and pitchforks, and it stands among fornication, excessive anger, jealousy and other disallowed actions. What's more, according to St. Paul, there is no heirarchy of sin, they all make us unacceptable in God's eyes. So according to St. Paul, homosexuality is no worse then lusting after some woman you're not married to.

Hence the admonition in Matthew 7 I brought up. There's enough we do in any given day that offends God that we could concern ourselves with for a lifetime that we really don't have time or mental space to be worried about what our neighbors are up to (or shouldn't anyway).

[Goofball]

What's more, according to St. Paul, there is no heirarchy of sin, they all make us unacceptable in God's eyes. So according to St. Paul, homosexuality is no worse then lusting after some woman you're not married to.

Informative post, Don. I wasn't aware of that. Which brings up a statement, followed by a question:

Statement:

It is my perception that many Christians seem to have a "special place in their hearts" for homosexuality, in that they rail against it and deplore it more than any other action (with the possible exception of abortion) that their faith classifies as a sin.

Question:

Why do you think this is the case?

[Don Corleone]

Here's my thoughts, though I am hardly qualified to speak as any sort of expert on the subject.

It's not just homosexuality. Christians have a special place in their heart for any sin that they themselves are not currently committing, especially those they cannot envision themselves committing.

Despite being warned repeatedly not to do so, Christians obsess about the acts/ state of grace of those around them. Why? Read, with an honest and hard eye, exactly what Jesus says is expected of His followers. "I assure you that I have not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it". In other words, all those things that are outlawed in Deuteronomy and Leviticus are still off limits. But, He adds a whole new set of requirements: "forgiving 7 times 70 times", "turning the other cheek", "going the extra mile", etc, etc. He then warns His followers that "every time you refuse to aid even the least of your brethren, you were denying Me". So, there you have it, an almost impossible standard to live up to. Thankfully, He also offers hope by suggesting that there will be 'some' forgiveness, and maybe God won't be quite as harsh as He comes off in the OT.

So, if you're a practicing Christian, who's erred a few times, the first thought to creep into your mind is "well, we can't ALL be going to hell... He wouldn't damn every last one of us". So thought number two is "Well, I'm not as bad as Joe. Joe spits on the sidewalk, I only pick my nose". The implication being, if anybody's going up, it will be you over Joe (who, most likely, will be the one going down).

Only, it doesn't work that way. Each and every one of us is judged not by some arbitrary code, but by the content of our hearts. Worrying what you're doing wrong is taking time away from me getting my own act together, which, a the end of the day, is what Jesus explicitly said He wants me doing. Yes, your sinful behavior is sinful, and I shouldn't say "it's fine" or even start engaging in it myself, as this would be a disservice to you and myself, respectively. But by the same token, who am I to say "Goofball just doesn't measure up. He's going to Hell". Jesus frequently and explicitly warns people against doing that.

I know it sounds trite and pollyanna, but it's true: Love the sinner, hate the sin. And the greatest commandment of all is to love, so if your hatred of the sin is interfering with your ability to love the sinner, forget about what they're doing.

[Don Corleone]

For the record, to most pro-life people, it's not only a morality question (well, you just shouldn't be doing it). Would you stand back and watch brown-eyed people exterminate blue-eyed people (to use an arbitrary distinction). I know YOU don't consider fetuses human beings, but people that are pro-life DO. And if you think about it, we fence-sitters (okay to restrict aspects of the practice but not ban outright) almost always use viability as a criteria. Nobody thinks it's okay to kill a baby, the question is when does humanity begin. I'm REALLY NOT trying to shift the discussion to abortion, I just wanted to address it because you lumped it in with other moral behavioral issues and it doesn't belong there.

And yes, I know, there's a few people around here that will argue conception, and at the other end of the spectrum, first breath. I'm not going to get into all that today...

[Goofball]

I know it sounds trite and pollyanna, but it's true: Love the sinner, hate the sin.

It sound nothing of the sort. Along with The Golden Rule, it's one of the most sensible doctrines of Christianity.

Well said.


For the record, to most pro-life people, it's not only a morality question (well, you just shouldn't be doing it). Would you stand back and watch brown-eyed people exterminate blue-eyed people (to use an arbitrary distinction). I know YOU don't consider fetuses human beings, but people that are pro-life DO. And if you think about it, we fence-sitters (okay to restrict aspects of the practice but not ban outright) almost always use viability as a criteria. Nobody thinks it's okay to kill a baby, the question is when does humanity begin. I'm REALLY NOT trying to shift the discussion to abortion, I just wanted to address it because you lumped it in with other moral behavioral issues and it doesn't belong there.

You're right. I should have been more clear. I simply put the two issues together because abortion seems to me to be the only issue that American Christians are more vocal in their condemnation of than homosexuality. But I realize it's because they believe abortion is murder, not because (for the most part, anyway) they want to dictate to women what they can or cannot do with their bodies.

[solypsist]

we're done here. thread closed.