MTW:VI:XL Cuman questions

[Banquo's Ghost]

Greetings!

First off, let me say thank you for the wonderful discussions and ideas in these forums – I have learned more about the game by reading the posts here that I could hope to any other way.

But now it is time to break cover and ask some questions which I haven’t seen answered.

I bought MTW some time after release as my computer then could not handle it. I enjoyed playing very much – I started out with the Spanish, learning a good deal about game mechanics and winning a couple of times on the conquest/normal setting. However, I got distracted away and have only recently installed again – this time, on the advice of an acquaintance, with VI and the XL mod. I wanted a bit more of a challenge, and to indulge my interest in role-playing as well, so I chose the Cumans – I’ve always had an fascination with steppe peoples.

I had to dismiss many pre-conceptions from my earlier days, and have had enormous fun learning how to deal with such a disadvantaged faction. Endless stretched borders, aggressive neighbours, weak resources and steppe tactics – not to mention a preponderance for pervert heirs and no-star generals with no loyalty save to their own black scheming souls. I’ve now run two ‘training’ campaigns with them, both ending in annihilation between the Horde and Byzantium, after I was bled dry by the Russians and Novgorods (my spellchecker wants to replace them with No-goods, which is rather encouraging but sadly inaccurate) – both of whom ally very effectively with the Lithuanians, it seems.

Now that I understand the capabilities of my troops better, and have seen the terrain I have to fight for (who knew, for example, that Wallachia, a province I had long planned to simply give up if it was attacked in favour of protecting Moldavia from covetous Byzantines, was such a defensible valley?) I am about to start a new campaign. It will be on GA but I am not really playing to ‘win’ but to preserve the Cuman way of life and forge a nation amongst the fractious tribes – and if blessed by the Sky gods, find a governor who can count without removing his boots and prefers the tender ministrations of women to those of goats. I already hear the clangour of javelin on shield as my bashkorts salute the return of their Khan.

Before the off, may I ask if anyone has had experience of the Cumans, particularly in the tech tree/units available? I can’t find this information and since I have yet got much past 1250, I don’t know if bashkorts and heavy steppe cavalry is all I get. For example, Avar nobles are not available in Moldavia despite being a region specific unit, so I imagine the XL mod changes things significantly in this regard.

On terrain, I have found that the battleground changes depending on the direction of invasion – in Lesser Khazar, I made this fateful mistake. To begin with, Lithuanians invaded from the north and there were bridges, upon which they broke and died like ocean waves. Feeling secure, I left a bridge defence army there until the Byzantines came from the east, to find myself defending a flat open plain with two leafless shrubs and a startled rabbit as cover for my flanks. Is this true of all provinces and is the only way out to test each province with an army from each direction till one learns? I think one would know the terrain of one’s own provinces fairly well, so I can justify research on this.

Finally, I have read several posts that use the verb ‘to turtle’. I can’t work out what this means from the context (unless it means to hunker down and tech up) so I would appreciate an explanation.

I have read with interest the reports on people’s developing empires and would like to share my campaign with everyone. Should I put it into the existing Main Hall empire thread or start a new individual thread – what’s the expected etiquette for a report that will be worded like a history?

Thanks again for all the info – I finally know how to march my entire army in one direction without them all falling out of formation!

[Martok]

Unfortunately, I haven't played the Cumans in XL yet, so I can't help you out there. I did put up your post in the Main Hall, however, so hopefully a few of the fellows there can give you some answers!

[Dutch_guy]

Greetings!

Finally, I have read several posts that use the verb ‘to turtle’. I can’t work out what this means from the context (unless it means to hunker down and tech up) so I would appreciate an explanation.

I have read with interest the reports on people’s developing empires and would like to share my campaign with everyone. Should I put it into the existing Main Hall empire thread or start a new individual thread – what’s the expected etiquette for a report that will be worded like a history?

Thanks again for all the info – I finally know how to march my entire army in one direction without them all falling out of formation!

Good first post Haruchai, and hope you keep on posting here ~:) !

It's been a while since I've played VI so I can only answer these quoted questions for you, although I'm sure other members of the community would be able and willing to answer them.

To turtle is basically what you thought it would be, playing defensively and teching up.

As for your second Question,
you can post your pics and history of your Cuman empire in the thread called ''pics and history of your empire'' located in the main Hall.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=47087

looking forward to read about your Cuman Empire !

:balloon2:

[Ludens]

Is this true of all provinces and is the only way out to test each province with an army from each direction till one learns? I think one would know the terrain of one’s own provinces fairly well, so I can justify research on this.
I haven't played the XL mod (in fact, it is sometimes since I played M:TW) but I can offer some general advice. Firstly, yes, the terrain of the battlefield depends on the direction from which the province is attacked, but you can find out which terrain you will have by opening the province parchement, moving your mouse over the province from which you expect to be attacked and looking at the bottom of the parchment. This can save you some nasty suprises, as sometimes (but mostly) attacking province A from B will result in a bridge battle but not vica versa.

Many campaign stories are indeed in the Empire thread of the Main Hall, but it is not obligatory. Also, junior members cannot post there, so you will have to get promoted first. Therefore, it might be a good idea to start a temporary story thread in the EH, so the moderators can see you interact with the other members. If you are planning a real story, you might want to post it in the Mead Hall, the board's story and art forum. You can find a link to it in my signature.

welcome to the Org, Haruchai ~:wave: .

[SaintBlackAdder]

Before the off, may I ask if anyone has had experience of the Cumans, particularly in the tech tree/units available? I can’t find this information and since I have yet got much past 1250, I don’t know if bashkorts and heavy steppe cavalry is all I get. For example, Avar nobles are not available in Moldavia despite being a region specific unit, so I imagine the XL mod changes things significantly in this regard.
Hi m8 lets see, i to didnt play Cumans yet, but i can answer about Avar Nobles they are region and time specific unit you can only build them in Moldavia and only in early:book: .
Dont know what units Cumans get, but you might try custom battle with them in different eras and see if they get something new in high and late.
On terrian Ludens told all that is needed so no need for me going there.


Finally, I have read several posts that use the verb ‘to turtle’. I can’t work out what this means from the context (unless it means to hunker down and tech up) so I would appreciate an explanation.
Well ‘to turtle’ means that you take easily defensible provinces like Britain islands and then build big navy to get money so you can tech yourself, with tech i mean you build all the buildings you need to get higher end units.

Hope this helps.:bow:

[King Noob the Stupid]

My post might be quite off topic, but at least it's a thread about the XL mod, so:
Where can I get the current version of the mod that runs on VI 2.01?
What do I have to do to turn my German version of the game into an English 1 the mod i compatible with?
and, the most crucial question:
If the game is hardly playable anyway due to a too new graphics card (CTD after every 3D battle and unpredictable random CTD after some time of playing), will it be worse with the mod installed?

[Weebeast]

Well I've never played Cumans either but yeah all factions can get Avar Nobles in Wallachia in early era only. I will definitely play it someday. I played Lithuanians the other day and Cumans got this much more interesting location than the Liths have - in the middle.

Welcome here , Haruchai.


Where can I get the current version of the mod that runs on VI 2.01?
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40 Go to XL thread. It's on the first page.

[Banquo's Ghost]

Thanks everyone for the advice!

It was kind of you, Martok, to copy my post to the Main Hall. It seems that not too many people have played the Cumans, so maybe I will be able to contribute a little to the knowledge base.

Taking the advice above, I looked at a custom battle for Late, and of course, the Cumans don't exist then - having been overrun by the Horde. (My experience exactly :dizzy2: ) So I think that the most I will get as infantry are spearmen, bashkorts and cuman warriors, unless I can invade some provinces with other troop types. Having taken Volnhyia once, I know that I can build woodsmen, for example. Mind you, armoured bashkorts are quite something against heavy cavalry. I started off being defeated and quite worried by boyars, but with a good volley and charge by bashkorts, they melt away. I'll let everyone know how they develop.

As for Avar nobles, they are not available to me at all, whatever I build. I beleive this is because Cuman Heavy Cavalry, which have the same requirements with bonus in Levidia, are to all intents and purposes the same stats. Sort of Diet-Kataphratoi :2thumbsup:

I'll post my empire experiences in the thread suggested and maybe in a little while, be able to contribute some guide information for the Cumans.

[Banquo's Ghost]

It appears that I may not post even replies in the Main Hall so I hope no-one there feels that I am ignoring their advice :embarassed:

[Ludens]

It appears that I may not post even replies in the Main Hall so I hope no-one there feels that I am ignoring their advice :embarassed:
Ahem, I suggest you read the Guild FAQ (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=45416), probably the most cited and most ignored thread in the Guild ~:) . So, they aren't thinking you're ignoring them because they know you can't post there yet. Therefore, it might be a good idea to use this thread as a temporary place to post your story.

Good luck with playing! Remember, the fate of the Cumans is in your hands.

But don't let me worry you.

[Banquo's Ghost]

~:) Well, I thought I had read the FAQ... doh!

It was just that a post seemed to indicate that I might add replies there, and the box at the bottom of the page detailing posting privileges said that I may post replies. However, it didn't happen and looking at the FAQ again - well, you know!

As for worrying me, I'm standing on a flat plain with seven leprous bashkorts, two emaciated donkeys and a pointed stick facing the might of the Byzantine empire. Honestly, a Cuman Khan is permanently worried!

[Banquo's Ghost]

As promised, the first report on my Cuman campaign (XL mod, Early, Hard, GA. However, my personal goal for the campaign is to keep the Cumans alive and existent as a contiguous nation by 1453 and thus defeat the tide of history).

Batu I succeeded his father at the age of 28 in 1087. The Cuman nation could barely be glorified with that description, being little more than a loose confederation of tribes. The previous khan had built a small fortification in Levidia on the Black Sea coast, but visiting Westerners would have to fight hard not to smile when describing it as a keep. The territory which the Cumans called home stretched over the wastes of Lesser Khazar to the east, and the mountainous provinces of Moldavia and Wallachia to the west. The Crimean peninsula, home to fishermen and little else, completed the homelands. These provinces were governed by men with no loyalty save to themselves and who could barely read or write.

Unlike his forebears, Batu had journeyed among the Western civilisations and had been held hostage by the Byzantine emperor during the recent alliance that had brought Wallachia under his father’s control. He had learned some letters, and battle lore. But Batu Khan had no intention of remaining a Byzantine puppet king, waiting meekly till the emperor chose the moment of his nation’s oblivion. Whilst the east held some prospects of elbow room in the rebel held provinces, these were poor places indeed. The Cumans needed wealth before they could control their destiny. Surrounded as they were by expansionist eyes, protected only by their poverty, and that for only a few years at best, the steppe people had to have more money.

There were only two choices before him. The lands of Kiev or Carpathia. Attacking Kiev would bring down the Russians upon his head, and they had many borders to attack. Carpathia however, was ill-defended by the Hungarians, and held many riches in its mountains – copper, silver and above all – ironstone. Batu set in motion his plans.

Stripping the old governors of their titles, he appointed the few men he could find with education. Lord Gostyata, now Duke of Crimea, was the best of these new men. Batu issued a decree that the old nomad ways were to be abandoned, and farming and forest clearance to be implemented in all provinces. He had watchtowers constructed along the Byzantine model he had seen and a fort built in the Crimea. He knew the civilised nobility of the west would expect appropriate ‘overtures’ and began the construction of a royal palace for the training and reception of emissaries. Lord Gostyata was made Chamberlain of the Khanate.

Over the next few years, Batu built armies in Levidia to protect the homelands and invade Carpathia. He sought an alliance with the Poles, which was rejected, but emissaries from the Turks and Sicilians sought him out. In 1096, his eldest son, also Batu, a proud and clever young warrior waited at the Carpathian border for the order. To disguise the preparations, he combined the activity with his wedding to Princess Elena of Russia. This alliance, carefully negotiated, protected the whole northern border of the homelands. Conveniently, it also looked to the Hungarians like an army review for the newly-weds. As summer waned, Prince Batu launched into the Carpathian mountains. The Hungarians, caught utterly unawares, fled across the border.

Batu Khan knew that the proud Hungarian king would not let his rich province go without a fight and so it proved. The battle of Carpathia, celebrated in song for a thousand years, was about to commence.

(I’ll add screenshots when there’s something interesting to see ~:)).

[Martok]

Nice post, Haruchai! Sounds like you're getting off to a good start. ~:cheers:


I realize this might be too late to help you on your current campaign (I haven't had a chance to post anything, as I was gone most of the weekend and just now got back), but a couple of the guys in the Main Hall put up some responses that you may find useful:



I'm not certain but I don't think the Cumans can build Avars. There's a number of almost-universal units (such as crossbows/arbs) that they can't build.

Ajax



I've never played XL, but I know that in vanilla MTW you can put your cursor over the borders between provinces to see what kind of terrain an invading army would face. I THINK you just right-click your province to bring up its information box and then move your cursor to the border in question. The terrain description should appear in the bottom of your province's information box unless that feature is not included in XL.

I believe you are correct about "turtle." It just means putting your nation in a defensive posture for awhile while you tech up or save some florins.



Gunslinger is correct on checking the borders (a nice feature of Wallachia and Moldavia is that for the Byzantines to attack from Bulgaria they have to cross the Danube to get to either one), and yes, turtling is setting up a defensive position and teching up, which I like for the roleplaying aspect of holding your own lands instead of just wildly expanding to take over the world.

The Cumans are a great faction, but limited as far as troops, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. You're not going to get much in the way of new and improved troops later in the game, but what you start with is not bad, and it's low-tech so you can spam decent troops out of newly conquered provinces to carry your horde conquest further.

I'd recommend taking out one or two other factions, especially Kiev, fast, or else you'll get boxed in and out-teched fast, because you've got limited income available from just your starting provinces. I'm not a big fan of Bashkorts, but your Cuman heavies are basically Kats with low build requirements, Steppe heavy cavalry are one of the best multi-function units in the game (good archers, long-range and ap, fast, and powerful in melee as well), Cuman warriors are very good archers and decent in melee, and steppe cav is just ridiculously fast and very cheap and easy to build. You also have Wallachian Cav (basically steppe cav on steroids, but a little more expensive) and in early you can get Varangian Inf. from a few provinces, such as Kiev, which can make defending the castle in Khazar from the horde a little easier.

I use an army of 4 Cum Warriors backed by 3 Cuman heavies and a Cuman heavy general, with 2 steppe heavies on either flank backed by 2 steppe or wallachian cav each for flanking and/or pursuit. It's a very flexible army (though best of course on the open steppes) for skirmishing, envelopment, and direct melee, and every unit in it is relatively easy to tech up to. Another very nice feature of Cuman units is they tend to be much cheaper in upkeep than similar units in other factions. So to balance your limited unit options you have decent units that are both low tech and cheap to keep, so you can produce and maintain massive armies once you get a productive homeland established.

The horde are definitely your biggest problem (and if you're playing in high era all I can say is 'may your pagan gods smile on you.' Otherwise you're on your own!), but with a large enough empire (everything Kiev, Novgorod, Volgo-Bulgaria, and Lithuania started with) and a few waiting armies, incl. Var. Inf., they're manageable and a fun challenge.

Hope some of that helps, and if you're going to do a detailed and regularly updated history a new thread would probably be best. Anyway, welcome to the org Hurachi and good luck in your coming campaign! :bow:

Ajax


Ajax has probably played around with the XL mod as much--if not more--than I have, so he knows what he's talking about. I hope that helps you out a little bit. Keep us posted on how the Cumans are doing; I look forward to reading your next report. :bow:

[Banquo's Ghost]

Thanks Martok. I read these responses in the Main Hall (I can't reply to them yet) and they were very helpful - particularly ajaxfetish and his views on army make up.

I think I prefer to include some units of bashkorts with the Cuman warriors, as they are quite effective at destroying armoured troops. The Cuman warriors alone get thumped if heavy cavalry get through and isolate them.

But time will tell who is right!

[ajaxfetish]

I've certainly got nothing against bashkorts, they just aren't for me. My Cuman heavies are tasked with the job of protecting my infantry from heavy cav, and they do tend to take the highest casualties in my armies (also I've never been too great at employing javelins-still learning that fine art). Also keep in mind that both Cuman warriors and Steppe heavies have armour-piercing capability (arrows, not melee), though of course not nearly as high as the Bashkorts. Glad my comments were of some use and best wishes in your quest for survival. :balloon2:

Ajax

[Banquo's Ghost]

Prince Batu’s army consisted of three units of bashkorts, one of unreliable slav infantry, two of peasant archers, and two units of unarmoured spearmen – though oddly, over three quarters of one of these spears had gone missing during the unopposed march into Carpathia. A unit of steppe cavalry complemented his own armoured heavy Cuman cavalry. All the Cumans were untested, and he himself was untried but was known to have excelled in his studies (4-star). But the true tutor of war was death and the dealing of death on the battlefield.

The very next year, a huge Hungarian army marched back into Carpathia, over 1750 men strong. Batu was outnumbered more than 2 to 1, but he knew the odds meant little – the Carpathian mountains gave him the edge in defence. As the morning of the battle dawned, the sky was grey and leaden. Prince Batu deployed on the side of a steep hill that bordered a rocky valley and anchored his left flank into the forest that crowned the hill. Here lay the trembling slavs, their morale encouraged by fierce bashkorts behind them. Years later, the old men of the slavs would tell their grandchildren that they were sure the Cuman bashkorts would as readily have hurled their vicious javelins into their allies’ backs as let them run from the enemy. The Hungarians seemed much the lesser evil!

Spearmen and bashkorts made a long defensive line along the hill. Behind them stood archers, high on the ridge to shoot over the spearmen’s heads. The steppe cavalry hid on the far left flank within the woods. In an unorthodox and risky move, Batu placed the other unit of archers on a ridge in the valley, given scant protection by the rump unit of spears. This was a bait – or as some muttered darkly, a suicide mission. His own cavalry anchored the right flank.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/aslanngrae/Carpathiabattle1.jpg

As the army settled into its positions, the clouds glowered lower in the sky and black rain drenched them. The gods were evidently displeased, for the crucial archers would be rendered useless as their bowstrings stretched. But as the first enemy banners were glimpsed cresting the far hills through the fog, the gods relented and the clouds lifted.

The Hungarians had brought armoured spearmen and many units of horse archers. As the air cleared, Batu could also make out that half their army were slav infantry – not quite as worrying. A unit of horse archers charged ahead and tried to get in range. Just as they outpaced their troops and settled ready to shoot, the Cuman steppe cavalry charged from their hiding place and swept across the battlefield. The first sight the climbing Hungarian army saw as they puffed up the steep approach was their horse archers screaming for mercy and fleeing for the valley escape. The Cumans watched with satisfaction.

But now was time for the hard work. The Hungarian general was clearly anxious to get this over with – perhaps his king had been harsh over his earlier abandonment of the province. Whatever, his entire infantry marched straight up the hill, save for a unit of horse archers and three of feudal sergeants which charged straight for the isolated archers. The archers loosed their hail of death and then ran for the lines to take up their planned positions. As the tiring sergeants turned to chase them, the steppe cavalry who were now hiding in the woods on Batu’s far right flank after disposing of the first horse archers, charged down the hill into their rear. The Hungarians tried to turn and defend. Prince Batu then took the opportunity to charge with his heavy cavalry into the disordered infantry.

On his left flank, the puffing Hungarian spearmen engaged the entire Cuman line. The line held, but only just. The Hungarian general clearly thought it was ripe for a killer blow and charged his royal knights at the rightmost bashkorts. He had never encountered these strange, half-naked, wild men before. In addition, charging uphill was not the best idea he had ever had – it was however, his last idea. With the advantage of height, the bashkort storm of javelins hit just as the cavalry closed and wiped three-quarters of them out. The other astonished knights then died on the wild men’s spears. After the battle, the Hungarian general’s face had a look of utter amazement frozen into his death mask.

The Hungarians wavered when their general fell in full view. Their approaching reinforcements were being shredded by arrows from the high hill. Just then, the feudal sergeants on the right lost their will to keep dying to Batu’s cavalry, and ran. Already soaked with blood, Batu wheeled and charged his men into the trembling flank of the armoured spearmen across the valley. They broke and the entire Hungarian line peeled away like burnt skin. The steppe cavalry tore into the rear of some horse archers that were trying to support the centre. They too ran and the entire army routed for home.

All that was left was to chase them to their graves, and several hundred were hacked down on the long scramble for safety. Though the victory was in sight, Prince Batu had the hundreds of prisoners taken swiftly executed – he had no wish to face the same men next year and it was wise that the Hungarian king understood right away that this struggle was life and death to the Cumans.

It was an emphatic victory, though Prince Batu became known as a man with scant mercy and men feared being captured by him even more than facing him in battle. More than three times as many Hungarians had died than Cumans – though the Cuman army was more damaged than would be wished for. Nonetheless, the army was blooded, and each unit increased in reputation, experience and valour.

As it turned out, the following years justified Batu’s cruelty. The Hungarians refused an offer for ceasefire, but they dared not try again to visit the killing fields of their former province.

By the turn of the century in 1100, Carpathia was securely a part of the Cuman homeland.

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v695/aslanngrae/Cuman1098.jpg

[Martok]

Nice battle, Haruchai. I wish your Khan continued success!

[Ludens]

Nice story, Haruchai. I especially like the beginning, but the rest is good as well. You give a good idea what is happening without getting bogged down in details. Well done! ~:thumb:

Incidentally, what are Bashkorts exactly? Javelin-wielding tribesmen or professional shocktroops?

[Martok]

Incidentally, what are Bashkorts exactly? Javelin-wielding tribesmen or professional shocktroops?


I think that depends on who you ask. ~D I remember some players from a few months ago complaining in a thread that Bashkorts are almost impossible to defeat, even when they're flanked. But to hear Haruchai and Ajaxfetish tell it, it sounds like they're not that great. I think I may have to try the Cumans in my next campaign and find out for myself....

[ajaxfetish]

They're primarily a javelin unit, but with decent melee. Perhaps comparable to Almughavars?

Their javelins are their most powerful weapon but they can stand against cavalry, though the smaller unit size won't allow the same depth and frontage as spear units. If I liked javelins more I'd probably use them, especially with the already limited Cuman unit roster, but I find I get by fine without them. I certainly wouldn't consider them impossible to beat, but if used correctly they could definitely do some damage.

Ajax

[Banquo's Ghost]

As ajaxfetish wrote, Bashkorts are a type of tough javelin unit that also act as a spear unit against cavalry. I have found them to be more reliable in morale and fighting ability than standard spears (which is the only spear based option for the Cumans AFAIK). They are definitely better against armoured foes and especially deadly against armoured cavalry. They look a bit of a shambles (ie don't seem to form strong ranks) and they tend to attract cavalry charges for this reason (ie heavy cavalry under the AI almost always choose to charge bashkorts rather than a spear unit even if it is vanilla - big mistake).

They have a decent morale (don't know the numbers as I tend to try to learn a unit's capabilities on the field rather than from the book) as I have only ever seen them rout at below 25% of strength and they stand flank attacks well - though like most units, not so fond of a rear attack.

Combined with Cuman warriors, they can be a tough old proposition for cavalry armies and they deal pretty well with infantry too. Armoured and valoured, they are a real challenge - but then most units are! Again, for a Cuman army heavy with cavalry units, the idea is not to let the enemy engage on a co-ordinated frontal assault if possible, so I find bashkorts form a deadly core for this type of army. As I understand it, ajaxfetish prefers Cuman warriors, and I can see his point. I just like the surprise my bashkorts deliver to the enemy general...

In the unit description, they are detailed as being peace-loving tribesmen from the Urals. They are dressed in pants and little else on the unit picture, and have a round shield. They are a smaller unit size than spears so one's frontage is less. They cost only a little more to build and mantain - needing a spearmaker's workshop to produce.

[Ludens]

Thanks for the answers. I don't play XL, so I would appreciate extra information on the units, especially their historical background and such.

Anyway, please continue ~:thumb: .

[Banquo's Ghost]

Hi Ludens.

Some background for you:

The name "Bashkort" has been known since the 9th c. The Bashkirs are descendants of Turkic tribes of Central Asian and South Siberian origin, living in the southern Urals and the surrounding steppes for over 1000 years. Their physical and linguistic characteristics suggest that they emerged as a self-concious ethnic group in the 16th c. from a mix of Tatar, Mongol, Volga Bulgarian, Oguz, Pechenegs, and Kypchak peoples. After the fall of the Tatar Khanate of Kazan in 1552, the Bashkirs came under Russia's sovereignty. Various forms of exploitation by tsarist administration led to several unsuccessful Bashkir revolts in the 17th and 18th c., the biggest one in 1773, led by Salavat Yulay.

Source: hunmagyar.org, UNPO

In game, the Cumans are another name for the Polovtski or Kypchaks. The Volga Bulgars can also build them.

The bashkorts were a peaceable, non-militaristic tribe (in relative terms) which thereby got to be conquered by just about anyone who came through - most notably the Mongols and later the Russians under Ivan the Terrible. They nowadays make up a fairly small proportion of the ethnic mix of the region called Bashkortostan (south of the Ural mountains - Volga-Bulgaria/Khazar in game terms) but there is a substantial number in Kazakhstan - indeed a sub-tribe that believes itself to be the original Kazakhs. The ex-capital Almaty has a couple of fabulous Bashkort restaurants - well, they are excellent unless you're a vegetarian ~;)

Hope this helps a little

[Roark]

Great thread, guys. Keep up the good work, Haruchai.

[ajaxfetish]

I appreciate the historical background on Bashkorts. The Cumans are a faction that (historically speaking) I know virtually nothing about. Part of what drew me to them when I first started with XL. Thanks for the info and the updates Haruchai!

Ajax

[Banquo's Ghost]

Ajax (and others who may be interested) you will find a nice, reasonably concise history of the Cumans (the arabs called them Kipchaks, the Byzantines called them Cumans) here. (http://www.kipchak.com/interested/Kipchakcultural.html)

It includes some notes on military tactics and the expansion of the Cumans in the early period.

If you try this index (http://www.kipchak.com/interested/) you can find some nice pictures of archaeological finds of Cuman arms and armour.

Hope this is of use.

[Ludens]

Thanks, Haruchai!

[ajaxfetish]

Thank you, very enlightening.

Ajax

[Banquo's Ghost]

I'm continuing to post the history of my empire here - if it would be more appropriate to move this content to the MTW Main Hall, please let me know and I will post a copy of the history there.

Part Three

The first decade of the 1100s saw the Byzantine empire begin to crumble under the assaults of the Turks and Egyptians. Khan Batu accepted an alliance with the Emperor to secure his southern border whilst consolidating his gains. Those Magyars that refused to accept the Khan’s rule were put to hard labour in the deepening mines of Carpathia.

In 1110, the Lithuanians appeared on Batu’s borders as they invaded Chernigov. At his daughter-in-law’s urging, the Khan sent a force into Chernigov to help repel the newcomers alongside the Russian defenders. After a short and fierce engagement, the Russian border was again restored and the north quietened.

The kingdom was still on shifting sand, as the economic situation was very tight. Farms were built and more forests cleared, as well as armouries and workshops built. Yet each year saw less and less money. Then, in 1119, Batu Khan died of a sudden illness.

Khan Batu II was a clever, witty man, not well versed in letters and often abrupt. His first act was to secure alliances once more with Novgorod and the Turkish sultan, and his second to celebrate the birth of a son, who he named Chagatai. He quickly dismissed some of his incompetent governors and promoted cleverer men. Trying to manage his finances more effectively, he started to disband older and costlier units. It all seemed so well thought out. In 1127, the khan even reduced taxes to celebrate the wedding of his brother to another Russian princess. The Russian Prince was most appreciative of this gesture as war with Novgorod had descended upon him.

The laughter in the royal yurts fell silent in 1130 as Batu II fell ill and died after only eleven years on the throne. His brother Subudai acceded, for Batu’s son was still a minor. In later years, many looked back and wished the young warrior had taken the throne regardless, for the Winter of the Three Caskets was upon the land. Subudai was harsher than his brother, and raised tax again. It was with his last breath, for he too died within the year. The third brother, Temudur, a man of great physical beauty and charisma, but avaricious and gluttonous tastes took the throne.

Temudur was no warrior, and the chaos and uncertainty of the khanate encouraged the treacherous Poles and Hungarians, who watching the disbanding of armies, desperate building of farms, and other signs of weakness, had made a compact upon a holy relic to invade Carpathia under the generalship of the brave Prince Casimir. The Alliance army was 2500 strong against the adept governor but unmilitary Lord Zoilus’ 974. They chose the depth of winter, which in the Carpathians is most severe, and many Cumans froze to death as they waited for the hammer to fall. Their bowstrings cracked and their catapults iced solid. It was not until the vast horde was upon them that they could even see their enemy in the blizzard. Carpathia was lost.

Yet so arrogant were the Poles that they had emptied two provinces of all but a few old men, and so Temudur immediately counter attacked into Volhynia and Lesser Poland. This seemed to prompt Casimir to get it over with and he assaulted Carpathia castle – only to suffer a terrible defeat, losing three quarters of his army during a portentous thunderstorm. A relief force brought Carpathia back under the Khan’s writ, though the Alliance was spreading his forces too thin and he was forced to fall back from the Polish provinces and lost lightly defended Wallachia to the Hungarians. Worse, he discovered that his Russian allies, who had failed to come to his aid on the weakened Polish borders, were in truth sorely beset themselves by the People of Novgorod. As the Russian empire collapsed, Temudur (who had no particular love for the Russians unlike his brothers) allied instead with the north Rus. He hoped to strike at Kiev if the chance came, for the economy was as ill as the Russian kingdom.

In 1139 the gods finally tired of the sons of Batu I, and Temudur took the last of the three caskets. The age of fear, invasion and catastrophe was at an end. The golden reign of Chagatai the Great had begun.

[Martok]

Great story so far. May the Cumans prosper under Chagatai's rule!