I think EB spelled Pyrrhus' name wrong

[Marinakis]

I'm not attacking EB in ay way what-so-ever just trying to help out some

Πυρρος in greek means Pyrros not Pyrrhos

[Teleklos Archelaou]

I'm not attacking EB in ay way what-so-ever just trying to help out some

Πυρρος in greek means Pyrros not Pyrrhos
So we should have Rodos too, instead of Rhodos?

[Marinakis]

If EB wants to get the correct native names of everything, why not

Greek doesnt have a H like english, they use E's in their place

[Reenk Roink]

I think he's underrated in the campaign :bounce:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

If EB wants to get the correct native names of everything, why not

Greek doesnt have a H like english, they use E's in their placeThe really interesting part is that they did actually. :grin:
http://www.stoa.org/gallery/hauck/horos?full=1

There is very little to no noticeable difference in Pyrros and Pyrrhos in English. Of Rhodos or Rodos. Almost all ancient greek rho's were aspirated, and it's pretty much up to whoever is spelling it out today to determine whether they use an 'h' in there or not. More often than not you'll see it there in English in certain Greek words, but not in others (usually depending upon the following vowel). I hope you'll forgive us for using Pyrrhos and Rhodos and Rhegion, following the most common ways those 'rho's are written in English.

[Marinakis]

The really interesting part is that they did actually. :grin:
http://www.stoa.org/gallery/hauck/horos?full=1

There is very little to no noticeable difference in Pyrros and Pyrrhos in English. Of Rhodos or Rodos. Almost all ancient greek rho's were aspirated, and it's pretty much up to whoever is spelling it out today to determine whether they use an 'h' in there or not. More often than not you'll see it there in English in certain Greek words, but not in others (usually depending upon the following vowel). I hope you'll forgive us for using Pyrrhos and Rhodos and Rhegion, following the most common ways those 'rho's are written in English.

H is an eta

its an e not the english H

But yeah =)

[Chester]

Peiface or whatever his name is, pyrsonso, is under-rated. He should have more command stars.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

H is an eta

its an e not the english H

But yeah =)
That capital eta actually was used as a pure aspirate and not the letter eta (in that inscription is one example - it's no eta there). But that was not that common and fell out of fashion after a certain point way before our game.

It's also interesting to note another thing about the greek letter we are talking about dropping the english 'h' after using: how is it spelled in english itself? rho. Should we drop it to 'ro' to be correct, or leave it as 'rho'? :grin:

Also, from your title, you used "Pyrrhus" instead of "Pyrrus". See how much we all want to keep that 'h' :laugh4: :laugh4: .

[Chester]

Wasn't Pyrrhus a brilliant loser? I mean what did he acomplish other than sort of win but ultimately lose battles?

[VandalCarthage]

I prefer to think of him as more of a tragic figure later in life, or simply meteoric - in much the same way that Demetrios Polierketes was. Neither really achieved much for their own causes in the long run, and both died in a fashion that you'd be hardpressed to call anything but ignamonious, but both were clearly brilliant commanders.

Pyrrhos himself though isn't given enough credit for his 'Pyrrhic victories.' Most every other time the legion fought the phalanx, the latter was trounced, as the Makedonian and overwhelmingly larger Seleukid armies were. Pyrrhos on the other hand, was able to secure several victories over the legion, with a phalanx whose equipment and training was largely poor (though the Molossian, Chaonian, and Trespotian were nothing short of excellent), and fewer and more poorly armored elephants then Antiochos lost with at Magnesia.

[Reenk Roink]

Wasn't Pyrrhus a brilliant loser? I mean what did he acomplish other than sort of win but ultimately lose battles?

Not at all...

All we really hear about Pyrrhus is "pyrrhic victory"...

Think about this...

Pyrrhus inherited the small, not really worth-mentioning Kingdom of Epirus and expanded it in every direction.

He first subdued the Illyrians to his north, and after Cassander died, took Makedonia. Demetrias's army defected to Pyrrhus because they saw him as the next Alexander, and only because Lysachimus was such a brilliant leader well-versed in the subtleties of diplomacy (dealing with the Thrakian tribes) was he able to convince Pyrrhus to share the Kingdom and later take it all by convincing the people and bribing Pyrrhus's generals.

We all know of his campaign in Italy, but remember, Pyrrhus had a turbulent trip there, and the Tarantines were...dissapointing. Also, the rulers of the other Hellenistic kingdoms were willing to give Pyrrhus troops, eager to see him leave...he was feared.

Heraclea was a complete victory, Asculum was the costly one, although had the Celts not been ravaging through the Hellas, perhaps Pyrrhus could have refreshed his army with more troops and the casulties not mattered as much.

And then the abrupt trip to Sicilia, where almost nothing is mentioned about how Pyrrhus crushed the Carthaginains all the way to Lilybaeum, taking Eryx on the way (it was quite difficult for me to find a Carthaginain of note during the Pyrrhic war for QWERTYmidx, lemme tell you, probably because they crucified failed commanders).

Then again, after popularity on the Island began to drop, back to Benvento, after which he withdrew, though perhaps had Mr. Antigonos sent him the troops he wanted, Pyrrhus would have stayed, and Antigonos could have kept his throne.

Remember, this was the guy who didn't have to resources that the other Diadochi Kingdoms had. His first trip to Italy he brought along 10000 core Makedonian/Epirote pikemen and 3000 Thessilian horse and 20 elephants, with a motley selection of hoplites/light infantry to round it out. He replaced his losses with a Tarantine militia and light infantry from various Italic peoples...nuff said. This was the guy who impressed Hannibal, and wrote a book on war that has been lost. The book Soldiers and Ghosts describes Pyrrhus as being best able to command, while in the midst of combat (and this guy was a great soldier).

Still, the man was as capricious as the old gods, and this was his greatest downfall.

[Reenk Roink]

[Double Post]

[Marinakis]

It doesnt matter how many times you say it, Pyrros will always be remembered for losing, the conquered are always forgotten, not matter how great of a person he or she was.

It's unfortunate people dont actually study the man before they make judgements.

:no:

[Reenk Roink]

It doesnt matter how many times you say it, Pyrros will always be remembered for losing, the conquered are always forgotten, not matter how great of a person he or she was.

It's unfortunate people dont actually study the man before they make judgements.

:no:

Technically, he wasn't conquered. He died in a war of conquest ~;p. You're right though.

[VandalCarthage]

It doesnt matter how many times you say it, Pyrros will always be remembered for losing, the conquered are always forgotten, not matter how great of a person he or she was.

The conquored are remembered for losing and forgotten for the same reason? In any case, Pyrrhos was hardly forgotten, nor has being the loser ever meant erasure from history as a rule.

[Marinakis]

rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr its not Pyrrhos its Pyrros :no:

The h is just from the Latin form of the name =(

..... sorry it just annoys me, call him Pyrrhus or Pyrros. Not some made up hybrid name Pyrrhos

that would be like calling Alexandros, Alexanderos


Πυρρος
Πυρρος
Πυρρος

[QwertyMIDX]

The h comes from the transliteration into english, it's just showing the aspiration of the rho, did you not read Teleklos's posts?

[Byzantine Prince]

Also a lot of ancient dialects used the h instead of the little brackety thing on the top because it was easier for plain people to read properly. It was in the hellenistic age that the little brackety things became the standard and the h was rid of.

I am personally more offended by the "u" instead of an "o". :furious3:

[QwertyMIDX]

We spelled it with an o, in the game it's "Pyrrhos."

[Marinakis]

ok, so why not spell Alexandros as alexandrhos then, by that logic

[QwertyMIDX]

Not every rho is as heavily aspirated, but judging from transliterations into other languages (especially latin) of the name Πυρρος the rho was rather heavily aspirated.

[Marinakis]

how do we know this, is there a way to know this from the lettering in greek

I just find it odd, never have i seen a greek name translated with an rhos, its always ros

πυρ - Fire
ρος - common greek ending

[QwertyMIDX]

You've never seen the word "rho"?

[Shigawire]

not word, letter.

Anyhow, Hannibal (allegedly) had a friendly discussion with Scipio Africanus in Ephesos. When Scipio asked Hannibal who he thought were the best generals of history, Hannibal stated that the best would be #1 Alexandros, #2 Pyrrhos, #3 Hannibal. He also said that if Scipio had not beaten him at Zama, Hannibal would be #1. :2thumbsup:

Pyrrhos didn't exactly die a very glorious death. Knocked unconscious by a stray rooftile thrown by an old woman on a rooftop, upon which an Argive soldier was able to kill him..

"Knocked out by a rooftile"

Not the most glorious ending one would think. :shame:

[VandalCarthage]

Anyhow, Hannibal (allegedly) had a friendly discussion with Scipio Africanus in Ephesos. When Scipio asked Hannibal who he thought were the best generals of history, Hannibal stated that the best would be #1 Alexandros, #2 Pyrrhos, #3 Hannibal. He also said that if Scipio had not beaten him at Zama, Hannibal would be #1

Don't trust that fathead Livy ~;)

[Shigawire]

I don't trust anyone. ~;)

rinse and repeat the word "allegedly" silently inside yourself and you'll get a balloon.

:balloon2:

[Chester]

Interesting comments on Pyrrhus. Funny how time wasn't that kind to him or Scipio. All you hear about is Alexander and Caesar. I guess their tales are not what hollywood movies are made of. :(

I would love to see a film or HBO mini series on that time frame with Scipio, Pyrrhus, and Hannibal. Unfortunately they don't have epic story telling like Caesar's story of conquering hero, love, betrayal, and murder.

[Shigawire]

Unfortunately they don't have epic story telling like Caesar's story of conquering hero, love, betrayal, and murder.

Sure they do. They are more than epic enough. In fact they are making a movie about Hannibal starring Vin Diesel. "Hannibal the Conqueror"

The jury is still out on how that will turn out. :inquisitive:

But at least it's better than having Denzel Washington star as Hannibal.
:embarassed:

[QwertyMIDX]

But at least it's better than having Denzel Washington star as Hannibal.
:embarassed:


Not so sure about that Shiga, I'd rather have a good actor who is the wrong skin color than an idiot. :inquisitive:

[Chester]

Caesar came in with a bang and left on a high note, murder in the form of betrayal. That' s good stuff.

Scipio was brought down in a smear campaign and ended up spending his final days a bitter old man. Hannibal lost, but did not die in a glorious manner (what happened to him?)

Vin Diesel? ROFL, it's over.

Hannibal kills himself to avoid surrendering to Rome while at Libyssa.
Scipio dies, ostracised by Rome.

Ok, I got the above quote from http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/

Hannibal died in a good manner!

[Shigawire]

Seriously. So Russel Crowe would be good as King Shaka of the Zulu tribe. :2thumbsup:

[Mouzafphaerre]

.
I sort of remember Orson Welles producing Othello (on the stage, not the film version he played Othello) with only black players. (Othello, Iago, Desdemona...everybdy were black.)
.

[VandalCarthage]

Not so sure about that Shiga, I'd rather have a good actor who is the wrong skin color than an idiot.

If Vin Diesel is passionate about Hannibal, then he might not be as stupid as he's previously seemed.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Actually, there is a great theme for a story there, greatness unfilfilled.

Hannibal was the best tactical leader - but could never make the politics or strategy lead to a win.

Scipio was the conqueror who fell from favor.

Peer-ose [not stepping into the spelling debate, this is a phonic] was unable to win despite victory -- and dies during yet another win.

[Jebus]

Pyrrhos himself though isn't given enough credit for his 'Pyrrhic victories.' Most every other time the legion fought the phalanx, the latter was trounced, as the Makedonian and overwhelmingly larger Seleukid armies were. Pyrrhos on the other hand, was able to secure several victories over the legion, with a phalanx whose equipment and training was largely poor (though the Molossian, Chaonian, and Trespotian were nothing short of excellent), and fewer and more poorly armored elephants then Antiochos lost with at Magnesia.


That's rather relative. You can't really compare those battles - Roman tactics and equipment had evolved by then, and Roman commanders knew their history.

[Byzantine Prince]

Not every rho is as heavily aspirated, but judging from transliterations into other languages (especially latin) of the name Πυρρος the rho was rather heavily aspirated.
The rho is only aspirated when found in the beggining of the word. :book:

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Trying to explain better why in English the 'h' is used after some 'r's, but not others (when transliterating from the Greek rho), the following patterns usually apply:

1. H is used when there is an initial 'rho': Rhodos, Rhegion, Rhea, Rhetor, Rhapsode, Rhino, Rheumatism, etc.
2. H is used when there is a double 'rho': Pyrrhos, Hemorrhoid, Arrhythmia, Gonorrhea

So when we don't have these two conditions met, we wind up without the 'h', like when we have Korinthos, Kyrene, Alexandreia, Hierosolyma, Tarsos, Pergamon, Trapezous, Demetrias, Thermon, Taras, Brettia, Syrakousai, Trinakrie, etc.

The only exceptions I know of is when you compound words. You take the stem that means "flow" ("rhe-") and put a prefix in front of it and it still will yield the 'h' in English: diarrhea.

We could leave it out for sure, as the rough breathing in these initial and double 'rho's is automatic in virtually all cases, but it doesn't hurt anything to leave it in (even if it seems superfluous to some) and it is familiar to a larger part of our audience.

[jerby]

Actually, there is a great theme for a story there, greatness unfilfilled.

Hannibal was the best tactical leader - but could never make the politics or strategy lead to a win.

Scipio was the conqueror who fell from favor.

Peer-ose [not stepping into the spelling debate, this is a phonic] was unable to win despite victory -- and dies during yet another win.
I find phyrros more dramatic than, say, alexander..

dear Alex had it all. but had a personal meltdown, and got himself killed ina mysteriosu way.

Phyrros won it all, one coudl say. he didn't lose a battle...but sadly enough fate wasn't kidn on him.

I find teh tortured hero a lot better than teh heroic mighty-mouse like character Alexander

[Geoffrey S]

If Vin Diesel is passionate about Hannibal, then he might not be as stupid as he's previously seemed.
He's rarely seemed stupid to me, particularly in being so personally involved in the making of the Riddick game. I think he's probably got the charisma to carry a film about Hannibal; the most important thing to me is having an actor who can show why so many different types of people followed him from Spain to the southern tip of Italy.

[Shigawire]

I admit he hasn't exactly gotten to play in a lot of good movies. He hasn't played a career-making movie yet. Only good movie I can think of is Saving Private Ryan - short role as Sgt. Caparzo. Fast & The Furious is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.. XXX was entertaining though, just average mindless action. Riddick was so so. But he could have hitherto untapped potentials we haven't seen yet.

About his passion for Hannibal, in an interview he stated having ambitions of using contemporaneous languages (Latin, Punic etc).. he wanted to portray Hannibal's mastery of 8 languages. So I think he's passionate.

But I don't know how well that passion of his will go. Publishers will decide in the end. But Mel Gibson set a new standard with Passion of Christ, even if the Latin pronunciations were off by half a century.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

But Mel Gibson set a new standard with Passion of Christ, even if the Latin pronunciations were off by half a century.Don't you mean half a millenium? :grin:

[Shigawire]

Uh yes lol. I meant 500 years. :idea2:

[QwertyMIDX]

The rho is only aspirated when found in the beggining of the word. :book:


Or when there is a double rho, but Teleklos already said that.

[L'Impresario]

Or when there is a double rho, but Teleklos already said that

Yep, the double rho usually appears in composite words, where the second one begins with "ρ" such as "παραρρέω", "απορρίπτω", "ισόρροπος", "παραρρήγνυμι" etc.

And while we 're at it, I think I saw a greek building containing the word "archon" (άρχων) in the genitive declination which should be "archonta" (άρχοντα) but instead is "archou".
Am I missing something?

EDIT: Oops, got that "s" out;)

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yep, the double rho usually appears in composite words, where the second one begins with "ρ" such as "παραρρέω", "απορρίπτω", "ισόρροπος", "παραρρήγνυμι" etc.

And while we 're at it, I think I saw a greek building containing the word "archon" (άρχων) in the genitive declination which should be "archontas" (άρχοντας) but instead is "archou".
Am I missing something?
That sounds vaguely right :laugh4: . We'll have to get that file changed. If anyone notices any definite errors with declension problems, please bring them to our attention. Thanks! :grin:

[Malrubius]

I admit he hasn't exactly gotten to play in a lot of good movies. He hasn't played a career-making movie yet. Only good movie I can think of is Saving Private Ryan - short role as Sgt. Caparzo. Fast & The Furious is one of the worst movies I've ever seen.. XXX was entertaining though, just average mindless action. Riddick was so so. But he could have hitherto untapped potentials we haven't seen yet.


What about Pitch Black?

[Shigawire]

Never saw it..

[Demiurge]

yet you saw chronicles of riddick? :inquisitive: chronicles of riddick was the sequel to pitch black..

[Teleklos Archelaou]

And while we 're at it, I think I saw a greek building containing the word "archon" (άρχων) in the genitive declination which should be "archonta" (άρχοντα) but instead is "archou".
Am I missing something?

EDIT: Oops, got that "s" out;)
Oh. Actually this is archontos in attic. It might have changed to archonta in modern greek, but it's pretty clear in the dictionary (Oxford LSD) I've got that the gen. is archontos (and I've already submitted that to be changed for future builds).

either way, it's better than archou! :grin:

[Shigawire]

yet you saw chronicles of riddick? :inquisitive: chronicles of riddick was the sequel to pitch black..

I guess..

[L'Impresario]

Yes, ofcourse it's "archontos" (άρχοντος) silly me heh
Even some relatives from the countryside use it extensively:p
I guess it's quite easy to get all messed up if, by a possible freudic highschool memory denial, you unconsciously try to avoid remembering those ancient greek classes...

PS. I wrote a wrong version once again before editing my post lol