Cancellation of Alliance by Protectorate (issue)

[sik1977]

I am running V1.3 due to a mod (Enhancement Pack) which hasn't yet been updated for V1.5.

The issue is that I have Seleucids as my protectorates. The Seleucids are and have been for a long time allied to Parthia. I have been gifting cities and money to Seleucids to make them stronger and still remain somewhat material in the game, but as a true allied force which cannot turn on me no matter what. Thats what i considered the ingame protectorate behaviour to be, i.e., the protectorate is unable to get out of this treaty obligation once it has accepted it.

However, I get attacked by Parthia and I get the message that Seleucids have broken their alliance with me (Egypt). How can that be right, they as my protectorates shouldn't under any circumstances, barring my attack on them or cancellation of the treaty, be able to call off the protectorate status.

I would like to point out that in the second year of the protectorate I had attacked Pontus, another ally of Seleucids, and the Seleucids had promptly cancelled their alliance with Pontus. I thought that the issue with protectorates being able to cancel protectorate treaties (in V1.2) was thus fixed in V1.3.

Anyone able to shed some light on this, and if this issue has been resloved in V1.5 (which I will hopefully be able to use once my favourite mod is updated to it).

Thanks

[Ciaran]

In one instance you got attacked, in the other you attacked yourself, maybe that´s why. Have you tried a pre-emptive strike on Parthia? Trying that could shed some light on the matter. Then again, playing as the Seleucids, I once had the Julii as my protectorate and when I attacked the Bruti, the Julii cancelled the protectorate.
And, by the way, did the Seleucids cancel the protectorate immediately when you were attacked or at the beginning of the next turn? In MTW, for instance, a nation that has to choose sides if two allies go to war always goes with the one who wins the first encounter. Perhaps there´s a resemblance in RTW.

[sik1977]

In one instance you got attacked, in the other you attacked yourself, maybe that´s why. Have you tried a pre-emptive strike on Parthia? Trying that could shed some light on the matter. Then again, playing as the Seleucids, I once had the Julii as my protectorate and when I attacked the Bruti, the Julii cancelled the protectorate.
And, by the way, did the Seleucids cancel the protectorate immediately when you were attacked or at the beginning of the next turn? In MTW, for instance, a nation that has to choose sides if two allies go to war always goes with the one who wins the first encounter. Perhaps there´s a resemblance in RTW.

Yes i did try attacking Parthia, and it resulted in immediate cancellation of Alliance by Seleucids (not even at the end of the turn). Your last point as to the winner of the first encounter may have some relevence. As with Pontus I attacked and won, and with Parthia, I was sieged, so I definetely didn't win even though I may not have lost either. Even when I tried attacking parthia I did so with one unit just to check, that one unit obviously lost.

[lars573]

The AI for what ever reason regards a protectorate the same as an alliance. I bet 2 Queen Lizzies that the Seleucids were allied to Parthia. And in RTW if 1 nation is allied to 2 other nations and they go to war they side with the one who was attacked first.

[JLEACH]

Diplomacy is hollow in this game. It is in every TW game. Once in MTW I was attacked by the pope and the rest of the world broke alliances and sent crusades my way...

[Ciaran]

Yes i did try attacking Parthia, and it resulted in immediate cancellation of Alliance by Seleucids (not even at the end of the turn). Your last point as to the winner of the first encounter may have some relevence. As with Pontus I attacked and won, and with Parthia, I was sieged, so I definetely didn't win even though I may not have lost either. Even when I tried attacking parthia I did so with one unit just to check, that one unit obviously lost.

Another thing: When did the cancel message arrive? If you attack, you get the "at war" message the instant you click "yes" when asked if you really want to attack, before the battle screen pops up, at least I think so (I haven´t played RTW for some time). If the cancel message arrives at the same time, then I´m afraid there´s no helping it. It´s a sad thing you can´t get other factions to break their relations or to stop wars. I know, it´s "Total War", not "Total Diplomacy" but according to Clausewitz, war is nothing but the continuation of diplomacy by different means.

[The Hun]

Diplomacy still has long ways to go.