Zulu: Total War update

[GiantMonkeyMan]

i was checking out the forums for stuff on the mod i am helping with Zulu: Total War and i noticed that there wasn't much stuff on the org... so i decided to put together a few screens and stuff (by delancey and sundjata keita)

https://img345.imageshack.us/img345/2148/zulu5yq.th.png (https://img345.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zulu5yq.png)
Here is a screen of the induna model. (WIP)

https://img449.imageshack.us/img449/9430/highlanders1yy.th.png (https://img449.imageshack.us/my.php?image=highlanders1yy.png)
some Gordon Highlanders

https://img449.imageshack.us/img449/9492/britishsquares2kr.th.jpg (https://img449.imageshack.us/my.php?image=britishsquares2kr.jpg)
some Red-Coats hold off against some Batavian Cavalry (Boer) in square formation

and there are more but i am too lazy to post them :tomato2:


and some news from the traits guy (thats what they call me :inquisitive: ) i have made for the british

General
Lieutenant- General
Major -General
Brigadier
Colonel
Lieutenant Colonel
Major
Captain
Lieutenant (pronounced LEF-TEN-ANT in the british army )

progressing upwards obviously, it takes a while for you to progress up the ranks dpending on which hidden trait you get: poor, financially_secure or rich because during the zulu war was the last war when officers could buy up a rank after a certain amount of years... to get either of these three traits it depends on what your father had or what rank you are... for example when you get above Lieutenant Colonol you can become financially_secure (from poor) and when you get above major general you can advance from financially_secure to rich because you got paid per rank...

and these three traits also give the officer different traits depending on how rich they are for example you can get 'snobbish' if you are rich losing you troop morale

and then you also progress up the ranks by winning battles... you get a little for an easy battle and more for a hard battle


GMM of the Zulu:TW team

[Duke Malcolm]

Weren't all the officers rich? One had to buy the officership itself, and officers were generally the well-off landed gentry.

[dclare4]

There were a few who were 'promoted from the ranks' (that in itself should be another trait - make him a better administrator but less popular among his brother officers) and then there were so called 'volunteers' - gentlemen who fought in the ranks until a promotion or position became available. Some officers weren't necessarily rich, though they would be at least of a 'better sort' than the men. They might be there as a favor to some other officer or nobleman. Their parents might not necessarily be rich but they might have enough to buy your basic subalternship (but not necessarily higher than that).

de Clare (Harlechman)

P.S.
Hi KM, stay tuned, I should have some highlanders out soon!

[GiantMonkeyMan]

some more pics for you to drool over :2thumbsup:

https://img290.imageshack.us/img290/9051/egyptiansquare3ii.th.jpg (https://img290.imageshack.us/my.php?image=egyptiansquare3ii.jpg)
some Egyptian Fellahin from the 1882 Sudan campaign square hold off against some Mahdist forces

https://img273.imageshack.us/img273/2030/regimentalmajor4pz.png
Here is the British 1860's Regimental Sergeant Major (old model/texture)

and a sig for you guys if you want to use... or is it out of org regulations? :dizzy2:
https://img273.imageshack.us/img273/8571/zulusig0ju.jpg

GMM of the Zulu TW team


by the way if you want to contibute in anyway with research, skinning, text editing i am sure delancey (or dclare4 here) will accept offers

[Duke Malcolm]

Good grief! You're going to the Sudan? I hadn't realised... It seems this is getting better all the time...

[GiantMonkeyMan]

@king malcom.... unfortunately our campaign only encorporates south africa but i think delancey is making a few historic battles from all over africa's colonisation, time and place (not sure though) and maybe we'll also have them in custom battles but i don't control that

anyway here are a few new traits i made for the brits... they aren't finished of course though

https://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=traits17rm.png

https://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=traits28nb.png

any questions about the traits just post here :thumbsup:

GMM of the Zulu TW team

[Duke Malcolm]

Excellent stuff. What does the officer get for "Second in Command", "Spoiled when Young", "Opium addict", and "Well travelled"?

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Well-Travelled gives more movement points because he would be used to travelling
opium addict takes away movement points because he is always stuffed in his quarters taking the stuff
spoiled when young takes some troop morale off because the officer bosses the men around to do tasks
second in command gives +1 command and influence... it is basically faction 'hier' but i am making faction specific ones

all the effects are still under consideration at the moment so if you think of anything the traits should do then post and i'll consider :2thumbsup: and if you want to suggest some traits for any faction then do so

GMM

[dclare4]

Hi KM,

Yeah for future expansion though we'll definitely focus on finishing South Africa before anything else and besides once everything is in place there it's more or less a matter of changing faction names and skins - I'm thinking North Africa parallelling the Zulu TW time period from the Napoleonic Wars (French invasion of Egypt!) to Omdurman. But by then, with the models and textures which we'll have we'll certainly have enough to do other things (I was actually thinking of playtesting with either Quatres Bras or the 93rd at Balaclava - Damn all that eagerness) but that's just me. I was getting mightily saddened watching Batavian dragoons ride over my poor wee Hieland Laddies so I decided to conscript some Fellahin and send them to Kordofan.

I don't suppose you'd be interested in doing some Scottish skins :sweatdrop:

Cheers,
Harlechman (Clare)

[Duke Malcolm]

Ahh, I'll see what I can do. I have exams soon, so not much, but can certainly try. Just tell me what to do, and I'll have a shot.

[dclare4]

Hi KM,

Right now 3DSMax modelling is at the premium - ZTW has two superb modellers now but with the breadth of the project (and for the sake of time) more are of course welcome. The Scots play a major role in the Cape campaigns from the very start in 1796 - the mod starts with the second British invasion in 1806 though - to the final Anglo-Boer war. They will be well represented by the following:

Highland Brigade - A composite of the various Highland Regiments in the British Army not covered by specific numbered/named units.

93rd Sutherland Highlanders - Napoleonic and Early Periods
91st Argyllshire Highlanders - Cape Frontier Wars
74th Highland Light Infantry - Cape Frontier Wars
92nd Gordon Highlanders - Advanced Period (Majuba)

Each named/numbered unit will consist of four Line double companies (though this is under discussion now), a Grenadier company, a Light company (though later units will probably see the two combined in a sort of shock/skirmish unit), sometimes a pioneer company (the 93rd will certainly have this), Regimental Colours and for the Guards and Highlanders only, a regimental band (hoping that specific tunes/voices can be allotted to specific units like the Velites, Hastati, Triarii,etc. in RTW vanilla - the Guards could play British Grenadiers, the Highlanders can play Cock O' the North, Hieland Laddie, etc.)

I'm especially looking forward to the band - it will have the bandmaster of course, drummers, pipers for the highland regiments and brass players (any suggestions which one?) for the guards.

And as a bonus, the highlanders can later be modified into any sort of Scottish mod that comes around ( :2thumbsup: hint, hint!)

Cheers,
Clare (Harlechman)

[dclare4]

One immediate thing I'd like to know is the colour of the Band uniforms for the 93rd during the Napoleonic Wars - I know the 42nd wore reversed colours of white and the Gordons apparently wore yellow and red but what about the 93rd? And who would wear reversed colours? The bandmaster and who else? Would pipers attached to the companies wear reversed colours or just red with additional drummers lace? I'm looking to texture the bandmembers soon :help: Pictures would be nice ;)

Clare (Harlechman)

[Duke Malcolm]

Ugh, unfortunately I have lost all time, I've lost much time to studying now... I shan't be able to do any modelling or skinning until mid-February...

[dclare4]

That's okay KM, perhaps if you have even a bit of time or just from what you know you can help out with the Scots units. I'm having a tough time getting the 93rd into shape for the Blauwberg battle - it's the first big fight of the Sutherlanders! We plan to have regimental colours, grenadiers, pioneers with axes and aprons and of course a pipe band and a drum corps. Now this last one's giving me the problems. I've never actually seen a real pipe band so I'm not sure about the arrangement of the players - ditto for the drums. I'm thinking for the pipes we have the Bandmaster officer up front, flanked by two drummers (officers) and the rest behind are pipers. For the Drum Corps it's a base drummer flanked by two drummers (the big ones, not the base but they're pretty big) but what do I know! Would you know how they're supposed to look/be organized? ZTW would be most grateful!

Thanks very much,
Harlechman (Clare)

[Duke Malcolm]

Ah, I think (from the Edinburgh Tattoo), the Pipe-Major is up front, followed by the pipers then the drummers. I'm not sure of the numbers, though

[dclare4]

A bit of rotten news - apparently there's a hardcoded provision that says you need to have one of three formations - horde, square or phalanx (no idea why they included that last one) with all models. I was really hoping that at least WEDGE would be allowable as this places the 'officers' up front in the grand old style with one leading and two following, followed by the rest in wedge formation. This would have been great for the Regimental Colours and the Band. Alas, I am forced to use square (horde is too chaotic and its needed for the civilian types, while phalanx - unless it can be modded - just doesn't work) which places the bandmaster et al at the sides of the formation. Sigh...

Yeah I kinda remember that formation from the Waterloo movie - had pipers up front then drummers following. Would the Argyll pipers and Bandmaster be wearing reversed colours (Yellow faced Red)? I think the drummers might be in traditional red with extra lace.

Thanks very much,
Harlechman

[GiantMonkeyMan]

here are a load more pics for you that sundjata keita and dclare/delancey have been churning out :2thumbsup:

https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/5983/firing1cy.th.jpg (https://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=firing1cy.jpg)
firing animation done (but the projectile is still not done)

https://img463.imageshack.us/img463/888/shoulderarms6pj.th.png (https://img463.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shoulderarms6pj.png)
shoulder arms animation

https://img389.imageshack.us/img389/2121/britishhorse1hs.th.jpg (https://img389.imageshack.us/my.php?image=britishhorse1hs.jpg)
the staff of the 24th Foot

https://img352.imageshack.us/img352/6043/navalbrigadecelebrating7hp.th.jpg (https://img352.imageshack.us/my.php?image=navalbrigadecelebrating7hp.jpg)
Here's another WIP shot from Natal courtesy of 'er Majesty's Jollies Soldier and Sailor too...

https://img461.imageshack.us/img461/306/zulutextureupdate1do.th.png (https://img461.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zulutextureupdate1do.png)
and an alternative zulu/african skin for you

you can thank sundjata for the new anims (well done!!!) and delancey has noted that a demo could be out soon

GMM of the Zulu Total War Team

[GiantMonkeyMan]

here are another set of screenies for you to drool over :laugh4:

our new logo (probably):
https://img115.imageshack.us/img115/2268/zulutitle4wa.jpg (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41)

a group of naval infantry are ambushed by Isandhlwana troops in slolen red-coats:
https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1576/wearetheboysfromisandhlwana1yf.th.jpg (https://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wearetheboysfromisandhlwana1yf.jpg) https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/7699/wearetheboysfromisandhlwana24m.th.jpg (https://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=wearetheboysfromisandhlwana24m.jpg)

a night battle:
https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/1907/ntombe1stwippic7el2li.th.jpg (https://img526.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ntombe1stwippic7el2li.jpg)

and a wip officer (edit- note the gun... it is a little chunky but Sundjata is working on it)
https://img123.imageshack.us/img123/5555/maxview5rn7js.th.png (https://img123.imageshack.us/my.php?image=maxview5rn7js.png)

[ShadesWolf]

Ive just finished watching my free copy of Zulu Dawn that came in the Mail on sunday and I thought of this mod straight away.

What is your plan for releasing the mod, ie - I mean timescale.

[Sundjata Keita]

Well we are hoping for a release well before medieval 2 comes out so we have time to refine the mod before it does. I can't say exactly as we still have a lot of work ahead of us but you should expect a VERY early version in a couple of months.

[Cesare diBorja]

Awesome, Gents!

Y'all know how to 'Rock and Roll'!

wahoo!, yehaa!, yeaaaaaaaaaa! and all that good rubbish

Cheers

diBorgia

[Dhampir]

This looks interesting. I'm very interested in the historical period; in fact, I'm doing a term paper on Sir Bartle Frere and the opening of the 1879 Anglo-Zulu War.

Is this mod just doing the time of the Anglo-Zulu War or are you starting at the rise of Zulu power, around the time of Shaka?

[Lodric]

...

[GiantMonkeyMan]

This looks interesting. I'm very interested in the historical period; in fact, I'm doing a term paper on Sir Bartle Frere and the opening of the 1879 Anglo-Zulu War.

Is this mod just doing the time of the Anglo-Zulu War or are you starting at the rise of Zulu power, around the time of Shaka?

thanks for the interest... it is also a period in history i enjoy and sorry for the slow reply

our mod will probably encorperate 1800 - 1890 roughly but our campaign isn't fully decided yet and i think Sundjata and delancey are focusing on the units before they decide on the campaign
but if you want to help with ideas for the campaign PM me or go to out main forums at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41

thanks,
GMM of the Zulu TW team

[Dhampir]

thanks for the interest... it is also a period in history i enjoy and sorry for the slow reply

our mod will probably encorperate 1800 - 1890 roughly but our campaign isn't fully decided yet and i think Sundjata and delancey are focusing on the units before they decide on the campaign
but if you want to help with ideas for the campaign PM me or go to out main forums at http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=41

thanks,
GMM of the Zulu TW team

I'll check out your forum.~:cheers:

[GiantMonkeyMan]

https://img65.imageshack.us/img65/1982/buildingtexture1bh.jpg

this is a wonderful magazine (a place where they store ammo and gun powder etc) made and skinned by Sundjata, he is now working on more buildings

as always... if anyone wants to join Zulu Total War then pm either me, Sundjata Keita or dclare and we are sure we can get something for you to do... whether it just be research, skinning, text editing, modelling, mapping or anything we would be happy to accept

GMM of the Zulu Tw team

[GiantMonkeyMan]

here are some concept work on faction symbols:

https://img70.imageshack.us/img70/3508/symbolanothercopy7ew.png
rebels- it shows a zulu holding a rifle so it could be used for any sort of rebel

https://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8504/symbol11na.jpg
possible african factions

https://img107.imageshack.us/img107/3361/symbols25bm.jpg
possible british and boer symbols - the first one (in british pink) shows queen vic

[Duke Malcolm]

Nice stuff. Perhaps a deeper pink for Britain, though, closer to red.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

https://img101.imageshack.us/img101/3523/brfrontview6nd.th.jpg (https://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=brfrontview6nd.jpg)
https://img101.imageshack.us/img101/4184/notherscreen4cs.th.jpg (https://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=notherscreen4cs.jpg)

another building for you guys... atm Sundjata is making more building etc but since we are keeping it as an update for later

[Radier]

Very nice guys! :2thumbsup:

Love the faction symbols.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

thanks man! they are once again sundjata's doing... and i think they will look well in game

think of any other things to be used for faction symbols?

[Sundjata Keita]

Just an apology if the last building screens look like something out of world war 1. The texture for the actual bilding has not been made yet but it will be a lot lighter and less "concrete-y" than in the picture. Also it should look better with slotted into the environment.

Regards,

Sundjata

[beauchamp]

Saalam Aleikum Sundiata (Nice name)

Will you guys be including any of the Sudanese campaigns or Eitheopia/Eretria warefare? Or just South Africa?

[Duke Malcolm]

Ah, wouldn't it be a dream to make General Gordon's Defence of Khartoum go well and repel the folks...

But I think they are only doing Southern Africa...

[Sundjata Keita]

Yes, unfortunately due to our team size we have been restrained somewhat but we may do historical battles of other famous battles in africa/ from the colonial period.

[dclare4]

Indeed - right now South Africa is the main priority. However, if you'll look at some previous screen shots I've been messing around with Sheikan (Hicks in Kordofan) and once SA is done it's virtually no problem to work on a Mahdist campaign (Brits from SA and the Berber faction modified for the Mahdists. I've already got the Egyptian Army as it is...)

Harlechman

[Sundjata Keita]

Strangely enough I was reading a little on the mahdists, mohammed ahmed was it? It would be interesting to see what happened if General Gordon just held on a little bit longer.

[beauchamp]

Watch Khartoum, its basically like a Sudanese Lawrence of Arabia.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

here's a few more stuff for you by Sundjata Keita again:

a dragoon officerhttps://img279.imageshack.us/img279/3018/showdragoon3ah.th.jpg (https://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=showdragoon3ah.jpg)

and a zulu house... unfotunately though most zulu buildings looked the same so sundjata is gonna add different objects outside to give them more of a 'personality'
https://img279.imageshack.us/img279/5879/zuluhouse23bz.th.jpg (https://img279.imageshack.us/my.php?image=zuluhouse23bz.jpg)

hope you like :2thumbsup:

GMM

[Stormy]

Impressive work! Both the unit and the building is nice indeed. :2thumbsup:

http://www.saastec.co.za/centres/ulwazi_beehive_s.jpg
http://galil.israelinfo.ru/report/photos/83.jpg

[Sundjata Keita]

Sorry it's been so long since the last update. Here's a few more screenshots to keep you interested. It's hard work at the moment, the whole team has been busy with other things and the progress is slow but we are getting there.... just with a few less factions and less units.

A couple of new British units:

-Some early line infantry

https://img334.imageshack.us/img334/659/earlyinfantry26zr.jpg

-An early dragoon (unfortunately not a patch on NTW's work but we do our best :2thumbsup:)

https://img463.imageshack.us/img463/7069/betterdragoon2bd.png

And then a screenshot of ingame (its low quality, the units look better when you are playing... honest)

https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/5038/picc0cg.jpg

Well I hope that keeps you wanting the mod. If all else fails then we will release the British and Zulu factions and probably a Boer faction so you can make your own battles. We hope to have a full campaign though.

Regards,

Sundjata

[GiantMonkeyMan]

sweet sundjata! looking good and i am glad you have got them working in battles as well... keep it up :thumbsup:

[Sundjata Keita]

Thanks. For all those questioning why the line infantry are throwing pilums,
1. stop being so picky
2. I've now changed the skeleton to use a rifle, dont worry. To prove it here is another screenshot of them at shoulder arms.

https://img526.imageshack.us/img526/984/british4zs.jpg

And a mounted dragoon

https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/6057/mounteddragoon2dh.png

and a WIP of the anglo-zulu period british infantry (the texture is actually lighter in game, this doesnt show it off very well)

https://img364.imageshack.us/img364/7905/quickwip9kv.png

Regards,

Sundjata

[beauchamp]

Salaamualeikum Sundjata!
Awsome screens, lets see some Zulus...
Also, if anyone hasnt seen "Breaker Morant" yet, I recommend it. Its about the Austrailian cavalry during the Boer war.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

looking good sundjata! as per usual :thumbsup:

[MansaSakura]

Hi everyone. i'm new here and wanted to say keep up the good work. your ideas for modding have peaked my interest and i want to make some attempts of my own. What I'm starting now is called AFRICA: Total War. I'm a big African history buff and know a lot about the kingdoms and empires. I want to do a Napoleonic mod focusing on the southern coast of West Africa (Senegal to Nigeria). If anyone is down for helping me with this, holla. i cant wait to try this mod. Good luck!

[Sundjata Keita]

That sounds awesome MansaSakura. I would help if I had some more time. It is quite late to be starting a mod though, maybe you could think about making it for medieval 2 when that comes out. I might have a bit more time to help you then, no promises though (I'm a busy man ~;) )

Regards,

Sundjata

[beauchamp]

Salaamualeikum MansaSakura!

Id love to help as well, im a big african history buff as well. Just PM if u need help.

[MansaSakura]

wa Alaykum Assalam, beauchamp
wa Alaykum Assalam, Sundjata

I do believe I will take Sundjata's advice and mod the Medieval Total War 2, instead. I would really like to do a Medieval African Mod since most of the southern atlantic states of West Africa did not use cavalry. I will keep you all posted when i begin it. I know this forum is for the Zulu Total War project so I won't take up too much more space on this topic. However, I have a great book on African Arms and Armour with great illustrations on Zulu dress, weapons, units and organization. So holla at me if you have any questions on anything. Research is what I do best.

As for Medieval: Total War - Africa (tentative title)
these are the factions I'm dwelling on. Time period is 500-1500

--Factions--
Cairo (Fatamid Caliphate)
Dongola (Makurria Empire)
Shewa (Ethiopian Kingdom)
Ribat (Moroccan Kingdom)
Ngarzagamu (Kanem Empire)
Gao (Songhai Empire)
Niani (Mali Empire)
Wagadougou (Mossi States)
Kano (Hausa States)

[beauchamp]

Anta Arabiyya Mansakura? lol

I think that sounds awsome, the only other kingdom I would include would be the Barbary states, (Hafsids etc.) and my personal favorites, the tuaregs. Depending on the time period of course.

[MansaSakura]

No my brother I do not speak Arabic, but i am familiar with certain customs (the proper way to respond when greeted, etc.) I know i probably butchered the spelling, lol. I will definately include the Hafsids in the mod once I get it going. I'm glad u brought them up. I wanted the mod's factions to be split East, Central and West with three in each division, but I couldn't think of a Libyan or Tunisian faction to include. I think the Moroccan kingdom pretty much covers the Barbary states and what they don't- the Hafsids do. I believe the Tuareg should have specific units within the Moroccan faction as they are practically Amazigh (Berbers). The Moroccan faction will be loosely based on a mixture of Almoravides, Almorhads and later kingdoms in that area. The time period is gonna be 500 AD to 1500 AD (basic medieval era)

So as it stands
-Eastern Factions-
Fatamids (arab egyptian state)
Makurria
Ethiopia
-Central Factions
Hafsids (Amazigh and Arab units)
Kanem (Kanuri of Chad)
Kano (Hausa calvary of Nigeria)
-Western Factions
Morocco (Mostly Amazigh and Taureg units)
Mali (will include some songhai units since they were vassals of Mali till 1441)
Wagadougou (Mossi of Burkina Faso)




Anta Arabiyya Mansakura? lol

I think that sounds awsome, the only other kingdom I would include would be the Barbary states, (Hafsids etc.) and my personal favorites, the tuaregs. Depending on the time period of course.

[Sundjata Keita]

Wow!!! You probably will not have been here long enough to remember but I pretty much started the exact same mod for the vanilla Rome Total War (I also called it Africa Total War) but it died due to a lack of public interest. Also you seem more well informed than I on the history of the period, my main reason for doing it was the splitting of the Mali kingdom to give me suitable factions to fit in with the senate. My time period was slightly shorter but also finished around 1500. The factions were obviously similar.

I didn't really get anywhere with it if you were wondering, I was doing all the modelling and texturing by myself and it never really took off. Plus I wasn't a very good modeller or texturer back then, I have improved a lot. I have no idea what mod I will be working for on medieval 2 but I will support this how I can.

EDIT: A blast from the past. Here is one of the units I made for the mod, I think they were meant to be mali archers (I told you it was bad)

https://img283.imageshack.us/img283/2792/maliarchersscreen3ji.jpg

Now, back to Zulu Total War :2thumbsup:

Sundjata

[MansaSakura]

Cool that u made the effort. I have a problem getting folks interested, too. I know jack about modeling but the Total War engine is so great I'm determined to learn. Like I said, I'm an ametuer historian so any way i can help on zulu total war just let me know. Have faith brother Keita, we will get this done and represent for the bright country


Nianiba!

[wlesmana]

They look like ninjas. Which means they're awesome.

[Sundjata Keita]

"They look like ninjas. Which means they're awesome"

and historically inaccurate... ~;)

A better look at the Anglo-Zulu war era, British infantry:

https://img363.imageshack.us/img363/6126/britishrender7cv.png

[Fwapper]

oooh... I'm so excited... :P

This is definately a mod I will sample when it comes out... asuming that grenadiers stop chucking pila, and riflemen stop firing arrows... :2thumbsup:

[ShadesWolf]

Whats the latest on this please guys ?

[GiantMonkeyMan]

well, sundjata has been quite busy and since he is the only one currently with modelling capabilities not much in the way of updated models has been done... also he has much of the units on his computer whereas delancey has only a few and i have none whatsoever
i've been trying to get him to send me the models or upload them somewhere so i can get a working game out of it but so far he has been to busy

sorry folks but we will get back to you :sweatdrop:
GMM