View Full Version : I love Abyssinian Guards...
For an Egyptian player they are a long awaited and badly needed solution for heavy infantry. Silver/Gold armored Abyssinians work much like poor man's Varangians: they take far more casualties, but nonetheless get the job done.
Ghazi's are quite disappointing mostly because they can't do *anything* other than flanking. I mean, these guys die to vanilla spears....it's absolutely pathetic.
Abyssinians, on ther other hand, are fully capable of withstandting a heavy cavalry charge (yes, they take some losses, but they live long enough to rout the knights) and then some. Excellent castle defenders too.
I don't know why they get no love, I find them to be invaluable to the Egyptian military.
ajaxfetish
01-09-2006, 21:15
I've been disappointed personally by their low defence and extreme vulnerability to archers, and I've gotten more from Ghazis on offence. I've got XL now, and though I have yet to play the Egyptians I'm excited about the improved stats for Abyssinians and the addition of Abyssinian elites. I'm expecting a little more powerhouse infantry power from a unit that seems like it should be able to provide it.
Ajax
To be honest, I hate Abyssinian. They have AP and kill fast, but they also die fast and they have an outrageously high upkeep. For the kill fast - die fast position in my Egyptian armies I use Ghazi's: they are cheap and they don't take elite units with them should they flee. But then in my experience they aren't quite as weak as you describe them.
Playing online i love them, they are fast, have high attack and so are excellent for flanking or rushing centre, you do have to use them in comination with saracens or other spears to give them some anti-cav and staying power though (nubian spears perhaps)
Whoa whoa whoa...
I'm sorry, but did someone just diss Ghazis?
Ghazi's are quite disappointing mostly because they can't do *anything* other than flanking. I mean, these guys die to vanilla spears....it's absolutely pathetic.
Sacrilege; burn the heretic!! ~D
Seriouly, though, I'm baffled as to how you can say that about Ghazis; you're probably the first person I've heard say that about them. No, they're not great for defense, but then that's not what you use them for. You use them as shock troops to chew up enemy infantry and spearmen, or (as you already know) for flanking attacks.
By the way, what kind of kill ratio did they get versus these vanilla spearmen you're talking about? When I sick Ghazis on spearmen, they usually get around a 3-1 kill ratio--sometimes it's even higher, particularly if they're able to fight a unit 1-on-1. I love those for that reason alone. They're a fantastic "fire-and-forget" unit. You just unleash the Ghazis and let them have their fun!
- Vicious
- Armour-piercing capability
- Extremely cheap
- Fast on their feet
- Easily valoured-up (with other unit fragments)
- Will outlast almost everyone else morale-wise
As the t-shirt says: Ghazis rock!
Well put, Roark. Couldn't have said it better myself! ~:cheers: Ghazis are one of the reasons playing as the Egyptians is so much fun--that, and the ungodly amount of income you receive....
[EDIT]: Hey, it's my 500th post! Only took four years. ~D
4 years? But that's a GOOD thing, d00d. It means you've been busy playing or reading.
4 years? But that's a GOOD thing, d00d. It means you've been busy playing or reading.
[chuckle] True 'dat. I also try to avoid general gabbery (this post being an obvious exception); I don't like putting up a post unless I feel I have an actual contribution to make to a conversation.
And yes, I do spend a good deal of my waking hours playing Medieval (in addition to hanging out here at the Org). :2thumbsup:
antisocialmunky
01-10-2006, 13:31
Abyssinian guards.
Charge 4 Attack 4 Defence 0 Armour 1 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 6 Cost 175 Support cost 75
Abyssinian guards are elite, disciplined and have poor defence. The substantial morale does help keep this unit on the field while it takes large numbers of casualties and the unit is capable of doing good damage when it ploughs into an armoured unit or weak unarmoured unit, however in the end the unit is not that impressive.
Ghazi infantry
Charge 5 Attack 5 Defence -4 Armour 1 Speed 6, 12, 13 Morale 8 Cost 175 Support cost 30
Ghazi infantry are armour piercing and impetuous which means they tend to charge without orders, pick their own targets, ignore orders to retreat and generally give your general premature grey hair! Ghazi infantry have horrible defence matched with very good attack and charge stats. This means that will kill and die quickly. Fortunately they have sky-high morale that means they will keep going even when half the unit is dead, these men are fanatics and it takes a lot to get them off the field. Ghazis are fast which aids in the rush to send them around the flanks to attack from the rear, as long as the Ghazis charge into the enemies rear most of the unit should survive the battle. This is a very nice unit when you learn its nuances.
Abyssians are more balanced, but Ghazis are better flankers.
Mithrandir
01-10-2006, 13:45
Plus the higher morale breaks the balance for me.
hmm, iv never played as egypt single player, but ghazi's online are one of the most fun units (with some naptha behind them) although i find abys much more useful in a battle
For an Egyptian player they are a long awaited and badly needed solution for heavy infantry. Silver/Gold armored Abyssinians work much like poor man's Varangians: they take far more casualties, but nonetheless get the job done.
Ghazi's are quite disappointing mostly because they can't do *anything* other than flanking. I mean, these guys die to vanilla spears....it's absolutely pathetic.
Abyssinians, on ther other hand, are fully capable of withstandting a heavy cavalry charge (yes, they take some losses, but they live long enough to rout the knights) and then some. Excellent castle defenders too.
I don't know why they get no love, I find them to be invaluable to the Egyptian military.
But why would you have the abyssinians or ghazis taking a cavalry charge?? You have saracens for that. These units are merely for flanking. And ghazis are sooo great for it. Like a living bomb: You drop them, and they disappear everything in their path(sadly, that includes themselves). Yes, they tend to disappear, but they also kill a lot.
Abyssinians cant be such great flankers because they are not as fast. Ghazis are, but,f course, you should never expect them to do a great job in the frontline, thats not their usefulness. They work like highland clansmen(if you have tried those), or like slightly toned down gallowglasses.
Now, abyssinians can be better balanced, and are not bad either, its just that ghazis are so efficient (specialized if you want) and soo cheap(look at the upkeeps) its hard not to use them
But why would you have the abyssinians or ghazis taking a cavalry charge?? You have saracens for that. These units are merely for flanking. And ghazis are sooo great for it. Like a living bomb: You drop them, and they disappear everything in their path(sadly, that includes themselves). Yes, they tend to disappear, but they also kill a lot.
Abyssinians cant be such great flankers because they are not as fast. Ghazis are, but,f course, you should never expect them to do a great job in the frontline, thats not their usefulness. They work like highland clansmen(if you have tried those), or like slightly toned down gallowglasses.
Now, abyssinians can be better balanced, and are not bad either, its just that ghazis are so efficient (specialized if you want) and soo cheap(look at the upkeeps) its hard not to use them
The reason why I use Abys to take a cav charge is because Arbalests cannot fire from behind a spear wall (unlike archers), so I keep a unit of Abys behind every Arbie, and charge Abys every time the enemy tries to crush my arbies.
Spears won't work for that because they cant rush thru arbies AND maintain formation.
The reason why I use Abys to take a cav charge is because Arbalests cannot fire from behind a spear wall (unlike archers), so I keep a unit of Abys behind every Arbie, and charge Abys every time the enemy tries to crush my arbies.
Spears won't work for that because they cant rush thru arbies AND maintain formation.
why not just put the arbs on hold then flank with abys or carge through the arbs to reduce losses on abys from charge , arbs can hold against frontal cav charge just fine and abys much more effective charging a static enemy...
antisocialmunky
01-10-2006, 22:22
Arbs aren't much use after the battle is joined.
arbs can hold against frontal cav charge just fine
Uhh...
Not in my experience. They tend to bleed on the horses a lot, but that's about it.
antisocialmunky
01-11-2006, 02:54
They won't win, but they'll stop the charge. They are good speed bumps.
ajaxfetish
01-11-2006, 08:15
They make much better speed bumps with the pavise. No melee offensive capability, but they will stop the charge, so something else can kill it.
Ajax
They make much better speed bumps with the pavise. No melee offensive capability, but they will stop the charge, so something else can kill it.
The pavise does not give a bonus in melee, so I don't see how it should make a difference. Pavise arbalesters have a better missile protection, nothing more.
on vi i prefer pavs but mtw definately arbs (i like to use my arbs/pavs to hold enemy inf while i flank with inf and cav) i find it best to put arbs in 3 ranks but with pavs 4 ranks...
ajaxfetish
01-11-2006, 21:36
The pavise thing is somewhat subjective, based on personal experience with no stats to back it up. I know it doesn't grant a melee bonus, but it does seem to still be a physical impediment in itself that'll halt a charge. Once my horsemen (or the enemy's depending on which side of the pavise I'm on) get past that, they don't last any longer than the others, but I've been favorably surprised by my pavise arbs, especially in one instance when they held several units of MHC long enough for the rest of my army to surround and destroy them.
Perhaps CA will (or has) confirm or disprove my hypothesis.
Ajax
i dunno about the stats and all but judging by experience pavs (especially on vi) can hold fairly well against light inf anf cav although i doubt they could hold heavy cav or inf long and the risk is that they chain rout into your line...
ajaxfetish
01-11-2006, 21:51
Yes, I certainly don't try to use them for my first line of defence, but I don't worry too much about them if I have another unit nearby that can save them. In the situation with the Mongols I was caught by surprise with my line stretched out very long. If they had routed they would have had a clear path away from my army to run, but they held their ground like true stoics, and handed me a great victory!
Ajax
why not just put the arbs on hold then flank with abys or carge through the arbs to reduce losses on abys from charge , arbs can hold against frontal cav charge just fine and abys much more effective charging a static enemy...
Arbies do NOT hold a frontal charge. They most definitely die, and more often than not, rout, if not immediately relieved by some *real* infantry.
Arbies are the main damage dealers in my armies. Everyone else exists to provide support for them.
Arbies do NOT hold a frontal charge. They most definitely die, and more often than not, rout, if not immediately relieved by some *real* infantry.
Arbies are the main damage dealers in my armies. Everyone else exists to provide support for them.
hmm i have to disagree, arbs hold long enough against almost all oponents on frontal charge, if flanked or attacked by very good enemy units they do die quite quick, i find them more useful than most spearman (and saracens as egypt) as they have same morale (i think) and can shoot aswell as hold maybe 3/4 the time of saracens, they can also shoot quite nice :)
online (i dont know if sp is v different) you can win games using 5-6 arbs as your inf backed by loads of cav, it works a fair bit of the time (especially when attacking as when you defend ppl are more prone to rushing you so you have not time to shoot)
Yes, I certainly don't try to use them for my first line of defence, but I don't worry too much about them if I have another unit nearby that can save them. In the situation with the Mongols I was caught by surprise with my line stretched out very long. If they had routed they would have had a clear path away from my army to run, but they held their ground like true stoics, and handed me a great victory!
Ajax
sos but i dont know how to get 2 quotes on one post --?
Try being english and taking army of 6 pavs, 4 longbows, 4 arbs, and 2 mounted xbows it rules :)
put them with pavs out front on hold formation, 2 arbs on each flank also on hold and longs in centre on engage, xbows just anywhere you want, it works if your patient :)
I was under the impression that the English didn't get Mounted Crossbows...
sos but i dont know how to get 2 quotes on one post --?
Try being english and taking army of 6 pavs, 4 longbows, 4 arbs, and 2 mounted xbows it rules :)
Man, that army is food for the cavalry (or a massive swordsmen army), if the enemy have valour and you play in very hard, they can run across the fire and charge against your missile units, or do a flanking attack. Don't forget the close combat units? :viking:
I was under the impression that the English didn't get Mounted Crossbows...
Mercs from quite early, although i havnt played single player for ages (been playing online mp loads for ages)
Man, that army is food for the cavalry (or a massive swordsmen army), if the enemy have valour and you play in very hard, they can run across the fire and charge against your missile units, or do a flanking attack. Don't forget the close combat units? :viking:
not if you put them on hold and set up right, the flanks are protected well, and the huge amount of shooting means that enemies rarely get near... come play online sometime and i can show you :2thumbsup:
come play online sometime and i can show you :2thumbsup:
I don't want die :sweatdrop: , and my connection is a misery of 56k. Other day :hide:
hmm 56k can , but sometimes works :D
Lanemerkel1
01-12-2006, 18:23
I don't want die :sweatdrop: , and my connection is a misery of 56k. Other day :hide:
http://www.nfl-fans.com/html/emoticons/duncelaugh.gif
I got the equivelent of 3 T1 tines (it's like a hundred times the speed of Dialup)
http://www.nfl-fans.com/html/emoticons/duncelaugh.gif
I got the equivelent of 3 T1 tines (it's like a hundred times the speed of Dialup)
thatw asnt very nice :wall: why dont you play online then? :2thumbsup:
back to the subject what do you think of abysinians guard compared to western inf, i think they would beat fmaa most of the time but not sure about chiv maa?
cutepuppy
01-12-2006, 21:27
back to the subject what do you think of abysinians guard compared to western inf, i think they would beat fmaa most of the time but not sure about chiv maa?
I think they are quite similar to vikings.
Lanemerkel1
01-12-2006, 22:04
thatw asnt very nice :wall: why dont you play online then? :2thumbsup:
because of two reasons:
1) I suck compared to other players
2) it most likely costs dough
because of two reasons:
1) I suck compared to other players
2) it most likely costs dough
1) You can only get better (and online improves skills more and quciker than anything else)
2) FREE!
:)
Cowhead418
01-13-2006, 00:18
because of two reasons:
1) I suck compared to other players
2) it most likely costs dough
Like the other guy said it is free. I don't play online for the same reason as you do though - I think I'd get crushed online because I find myself making mistakes over and over again on the field of battle. I usually have a plan of attack (or defense) but they usually don't go as planned . Human opponents are significantly smarter than AI opponents so I think I'd get utterly embarassed by online players (that includes you).
ajaxfetish
01-13-2006, 00:56
I think they are quite similar to vikings.
A little better on attack and a little worse on defence, but about twice as expensive on upkeep. (possibly the unit's greatest weakness)
Ajax
I really like the Abyssinian Guard, but find that they are not as broadly useful as Ghazis. They have an intimidating charge though, and so I usually squeeze a double line of Abyssinians in between my spears and desert archers.
back to the subject what do you think of abysinians guard compared to western inf, i think they would beat fmaa most of the time but not sure about chiv maa?
Well, CMAA are heavily armoured, so the armour píercing effect is very useful in this case. They could actually be a nice addition to european armies. ... that can't get gallowglasses
Cowhead418
01-13-2006, 04:06
When I first played the Egyptians and started using this unit I thought they were heavy infantry and used them as such. After seeing lots of them fall in melee due to their weak defense I quickly changed my battle plan with them. In their picture they look so intimidating so I got the feeling I could unleash them in battle and have them cut to pieces almost everyone in their way. Instead I learned not to judge a unit on their image and support cost - I thought they would be amazing because of their high support cost.
Instead I learned not to judge a unit on their image and support cost - I thought they would be amazing because of their high support cost.
Yep, I learned that general lesson the hard way as well--"more expensive" doesn't always equal "better". And as much as it pains me to admit it (since the Eggies are my 2nd favorite faction to play as), the AG are an all-too-good example of that fact. :embarassed: I really gotta go back and play them again in XL Mod, though, since VikingHorde apparently upped the Abyssinians' stats (hopefully their defense, in particular). In addition, he gave the Egyptians an elite version of the AG now as well, so I want to see how those work out.
ajaxfetish
01-13-2006, 08:18
(since the Eggies are my 2nd favorite faction to play as)
What's your first?
I haven't played as the Eggies yet in XL but the stats look much better and I got the impression I was facing better Abyssinians when playing as the Crusaders, especially against the Elite Guards.
Ajax
antisocialmunky
01-13-2006, 13:42
Abyssians are okay, but Ghazis can fill more rolls. They're somewhere between Woodsman and Abyssians and much better than either.
Like the other guy said it is free. I don't play online for the same reason as you do though - I think I'd get crushed online because I find myself making mistakes over and over again on the field of battle. I usually have a plan of attack (or defense) but they usually don't go as planned . Human opponents are significantly smarter than AI opponents so I think I'd get utterly embarassed by online players (that includes you).
Its not embarassing to be crushed at all, i lost about my first 50 games, but over time i learnt how to be quote competent and it get increasingly fun, you leanr very quick from old players and most are very accomadating...
What's your first?
That would be the Spanish (Castille-Leonese in XL). ~:)
I haven't played as the Eggies yet in XL but the stats look much better and I got the impression I was facing better Abyssinians when playing as the Crusaders, especially against the Elite Guards.
Cool. Well I'm probably going to start a new Egyptian campaign in a few days, so I'll find out if they're better or not!
hmm what iv always likes about egypt is the combination of interesting infantry (ghazi's, abysinnians, nizaris etc.) and horse archers (my fav unit type) and also the other more fun units to use like camel warriors and naptha, so i do enjoy playing them, im not sure if campaign is different though as i think (having not played a campaign for about 3 years) that it takes a long time to get their more fun units.
(I cant work out how to quote in post!) I'm not sure about them being similar to gallowglasses as gallows have low morale which i find very difficult to play with...i would expect a unit of abys to beat a unit of gallows 1 vs 1 but iv never tried it...
(I cant work out how to quote in post!)
You could try just copying the quote tags... works for me :2thumbsup:
I'm not sure about them being similar to gallowglasses as gallows have low morale which i find very difficult to play with...i would expect a unit of abys to beat a unit of gallows 1 vs 1 but iv never tried it...
I have had more than 1 campaign with access to both abyssinans and gallowglasses (basically, all have been catholic factions with Egypt as a rising power, and WAY too much money to waste ~D ). And i gotta admit i have failed to use both of them in the same army(because one of them sees almost no action), and i found gallows to be much better.
Yes, morale is a problem at first, but that can be worked out with a church and a monastery. But for the jobs i let them do, they dont need that much morale...
I don't know, maybe i'm just expecting them to be ghazis :wall: , and that's why they don't exactly convince me... maybe i should reinstall MTW and try again.
1 on 1, gallows win, if my memory serves me right... also, clan bersek's unit comparison says so, and it has never disappointed me
hmm i do think tha gallows armoured anemies and cav than abys, but when it comes to inf killing i think abys are one of the best in game, they just struggle against cav,
i must try using gallows again some time, :)
hmm i do think tha gallows armoured anemies and cav than abys, but when it comes to inf killing i think abys are one of the best in game, they just struggle against cav,
Gallowglasses: --- Charge 8 Attack 5 Defence 0 Armour 2 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 0 Cost 200 Support cost 22
Abyssinian guards: Charge 4 Attack 4 Defence 0 Armour 1 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 6 Cost 175 Support cost 75
Ghazi infantry: --- Charge 5 Attack 5 Defence -4 Armour 1 Speed 6, 12, 13 Morale 8 Cost 175 Support cost 30
(From frogbeastegg's unit guide)
As you can see, statwise the only reason to take Abbyssinians over Gallowglasses is their better morale and their slightly lower price. Abbyssinians are also disciplined (and not impetuous) but I think overal Gallowglasses are better provided their morale is taken care of. You can support three units of Gallowglasses for the price of one unit of Abbyssinian Guard.
yeah gallows look much better than i thought :)
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