View Full Version : Harmless fun or bad taste?
With the upcomming world championship in Germany a dutch company made a rather peculiar 'fun' item for the fans, that will no doubt be a hit (15.000 orders so far I believe)
http://www.helmpje.nl/theme.jpg
Now I love very bad humour, especially when it is deeply insulting someone's heritage, but I don't think this is being a very good guest, opinions?
R'as al Ghul
01-11-2006, 13:54
I already hate the :furious3: World championship.
Well, the material could be a problem at the entry to the stadium.
Oh and by the way, it's written wrong.
It should read "Jetzt geht's los" (pretty embarassing :laugh4: )
I guess your German is quite good but for others it would be like
"Let go" instead of "Let's go" or sth similar.
Not that embarrassing, just an amplification of your faillure to make us speak it ;)
R'as al Ghul
01-11-2006, 14:41
Not that embarrassing, just an amplification of your faillure to make us speak it ;)
Careful, mate.
There's enough time to blitz you till the WC starts. :wink:
Ser Clegane
01-11-2006, 14:53
I just read an (German) article (http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/0,1518,394484,00.html)about it yesterday.
Poor taste, IMHO - the rivalry between the Dutch and the Germans can certainly be a lot of fun, but one should be careful not to cross a line beyond it gets just nasty.
However, one should keep in mind that crossing this line is done by Germans as well (soory this one is also in German) (http://www.bildblog.de/?p=1071)
R'as al Ghul
01-11-2006, 14:59
However, one should keep in mind that crossing this line is done by Germans as well (soory this one is also in German) (http://www.bildblog.de/?p=1071)
www.bildblog.de rocks! Thanks for the link Ser!
A very good blog observing the fooleries and absurdities of Germany's
biggest Yellow press paper.
Oh, so that is where she is! Why do you germans have to steal all our talent, first Rudi Carrel and now Tooske :laugh4:
please close the borders before they come back!
Adrian II
01-11-2006, 15:02
It should read "Jetzt geht's los" (pretty embarassing :laugh4: ) (..) "Let go" instead of "Let's go" or sth similar.If pushed, the sentence 'Jetzt geht los!' could be read as an exhortative, meaning 'Off you go now!' But no doubt you are right, the makers clearly wanted to state something like 'Now it's going to happen'.
And whatever it says, it has poor taste written all over it. :bow:
Kralizec
01-11-2006, 15:07
I chuckled when I first heard about it, and a friend of mine who's going to order a bunch of mine told me he'd keep one for me.
However, the more I think about it it's probably a bad idea. WW2 humour is one thing, but actually wearing this kind of stuff in public is overboard.
Fragony: did you order one?
Ser Clegane
01-11-2006, 15:15
www.bildblog.de rocks! Thanks for the link Ser!
One of my favourite websites ~:)
Major Robert Dump
01-11-2006, 15:24
I'm sorry I don't understand what that means I don't speak Japanese
KukriKhan
01-11-2006, 15:28
So I conclude the "bad taste" is the actual shape of the headgear, vs the text?
English assassin
01-11-2006, 15:30
Blimey, you mean someone has actually outdone the English in the inability-to-forget-the-war-when-annoying-the-Germans stakes?
Edit: re text am I misunderstanding or does it mean something like "lets kick off" would in English (ie "lets have a fight")
Edit: re text am I misunderstanding or does it mean something like "lets kick off" would in English (ie "lets have a fight")
In english it would be 'it's on'. There is no hostility in it, I just think it is a bit too much.
Blimey, you mean someone has actually outdone the English in the inability-to-forget-the-war-when-annoying-the-Germans stakes?
Oh boy ^^
Kralizec
01-11-2006, 15:45
So I conclude the "bad taste" is the actual shape of the headgear, vs the text?
The shape of the headgear, because it's using a WW2 icon to make fun of the Germans.
Plus the fact that the WC happens to be in Germany makes it even more respectless and provocative.
Geoffrey S
01-11-2006, 15:56
Blimey, you mean someone has actually outdone the English in the inability-to-forget-the-war-when-annoying-the-Germans stakes?
It's practically a national hobby.
Taffy_is_a_Taff
01-11-2006, 17:20
I want one!
I will wear it around my German friends who will be bemused by my lack of Dutchness.
That seems just fine to me. I'd get one if I cared about Soccer.
Goofball
01-11-2006, 23:52
Blimey, you mean someone has actually outdone the English in the inability-to-forget-the-war-when-annoying-the-Germans stakes?
Edit: re text am I misunderstanding or does it mean something like "lets kick off" would in English (ie "lets have a fight")
DON'T MENTION THE WAR!!!
http://blogs.philly.com/blinq/images/basil.jpg
:laugh4:
Strike For The South
01-11-2006, 23:52
oh I get it https://img473.imageshack.us/img473/9206/theme5pz.th.jpg (https://img473.imageshack.us/my.php?image=theme5pz.jpg)https://img473.imageshack.us/img473/464/bgshelmetb6tf.jpg (https://imageshack.us) silly dutch and there nazi propaganda
Devastatin Dave
01-11-2006, 23:55
Very bad taste. Very insulting. Germany has moved past that time in history, has done everything it can to rectify the injustice caused by the Nazi's and is now one of the great democracies and securers of intenational goodwill. It is time to forgive, maybe not forget so history won't repeat itself, but to use this type of symbolism is very tastless.
Strike For The South
01-12-2006, 00:10
Very bad taste. Very insulting. Germany has moved past that time in history, has done everything it can to rectify the injustice caused by the Nazi's and is now one of the great democracies and securers of intenational goodwill. It is time to forgive, maybe not forget so history won't repeat itself, but to use this type of symbolism is very tastless.
man DD what happend you use to be cool:book:
I don't know what to think about it, really. I suppose to use a WWII icon (the helmet) is a bit steep but the writing on it is nothing else but silly mockery; nothing to be worried about.
It's not surprising that this was going to happen. Holland and Germany have always enjoyed this little rivalry. I am waiting for the German reply which is bound to happen. I hope it's at least something original.
Overall, I woudn't be too worried about it. It's nothing out of the ordinary, after all. Just wait until the Swiss are coming with the swinging alphorns. That will teach you all a lesson :2thumbsup:.
Quid
Goofball
01-12-2006, 00:54
It's not surprising that this was going to happen. Holland and Germany have always enjoyed this little rivalry. I am waiting for the German reply which is bound to happen. I hope it's at least something original.
One of the problems with this cheap shot by the Dutch is that it's hitting somebody who is not allowed to hit back in kind. The most cutting response the Germans could retort with would be something along the lines of calling the Dutch a bunch of blouse-wearing, weak-kneed surrender-monkeys and then having the German soccer team stencil the word Blitzkrieg on their jerseys. But given the fact that this would be in even poorer taste than the Dutch opening salvo, combined with German sensitivity over their actions in WWII, the Germans would never stoop so low.
One of the problems with this cheap shot by the Dutch is that it's hitting somebody who is not allowed to hit back in kind. The most cutting response the Germans could retort with would be something along the lines of calling the Dutch a bunch of blouse-wearing, weak-kneed surrender-monkeys and then having the German soccer team stencil the word Blitzkrieg on their jerseys. But given the fact that this would be in even poorer taste than the Dutch opening salvo, combined with German sensitivity over their actions in WWII, the Germans would never stoop so low.
...or maybe they will simply beat the Dutch at the game.
Seriously, though, I agree with you there. I don't really see any way how this could be 'topped' by the Germans. Then again, never underestimate them either. I still believe that SOMETHING will come in response.
Quid
Proletariat
01-12-2006, 01:02
Good point about the Germans retort being blackballed, but I don't think this is in too much of poor taste. It's not very funny, granted, but I don't see much to get too worked up over. Maybe if it had something to do with the Holocaust specifically, but of course it can be argued the two are inextricably linked.
It's hard for me to imagine the political correctness in Europe when it comes to the Nazi issue. You'd think the least the Germans could do would be to put up with a few jokes at their history, but I usually hear more Germans being offended by this stuff than the Survivors themselves.
Hope I'm not offending any German friends here, but it's hard for me to understand where the line is drawn with jokes about your history, being an uncultured American, yanno.
:help:
Byzantine Prince
01-12-2006, 01:16
Very bad taste. Very insulting. Germany has moved past that time in history, has done everything it can to rectify the injustice caused by the Nazi's and is now one of the great democracies and securers of intenational goodwill. It is time to forgive, maybe not forget so history won't repeat itself, but to use this type of symbolism is very tastless.
I don't agree. If we forget does that not mean we cannot repeat, since we cannot remember how it hapened. :book:
Also the hat is cool. I don't see how they are attacking Germany, considering Holland had its own nazi party that ruled over them at the time of the war.
I would think the younger/middle generations would not be easily offended. Hahah, a little fun at the past but they know the future of their country is in their hands. Veterans or those with close relations to vets might be offended because it represents something they fought and died for regardless of politics.
Rabid football fans aren't known to be the most tactful bunch, this will serve as an icebreaker for getting into brawls :D
Now anyone know about some anti-american fun-poking that people will be sporting? I would like to see it. :D
Just A Girl
01-12-2006, 01:36
Whats The thing say any way??
"Lets go loose?"
And if it does say that. and the dutch will be wearing em...
nows that insulting german's?
if my VERY poor translation is any where near correct. isnt that a insult to dutch?
P.s
My german extends from the word Fruit. All the way to the sentance.. "fruit Juice"
I cant even Say Can I have,
So my translation is probably MILES off.
Devastatin Dave
01-12-2006, 06:45
man DD what happend you use to be cool:book:
Nazism is cool?
Zalmoxis
01-12-2006, 06:51
Read about this before. A bit strange, considering the Dutch didn't exactly fight off the Germans that much.
Side Note: 401st post joy!
Zalmoxis
01-12-2006, 06:51
Double post, sorry.
Whats The thing say any way??
"Lets go loose?"
And if it does say that. and the dutch will be wearing em...
nows that insulting german's?
if my VERY poor translation is any where near correct. isnt that a insult to dutch?
P.s
My german extends from the word Fruit. All the way to the sentance.. "fruit Juice"
I cant even Say Can I have,
So my translation is probably MILES off.
I will help you along a little there. The writing on the helmet actually means something along the lines of 'it's on' - 'let's go do it' - so nothing insulting at all really. Perhaps poking a little fun at the Germans since that is one of the lines chanted at almost anything Germany takes part in.
The insulting part to some is the helmet. As it MAY represent WWII Germany and its 'Wehrmacht'.
Last but not least, here is how you order a beer in Germany...'Ein Bier, bitte.' - or - 'Kann ich' ein Bier haben, bitte - the underlined is what you were looking for.
Quid
Ser Clegane
01-12-2006, 08:51
It's hard for me to imagine the political correctness in Europe when it comes to the Nazi issue. You'd think the least the Germans could do would be to put up with a few jokes at their history, but I usually hear more Germans being offended by this stuff than the Survivors themselves.
Hope I'm not offending any German friends here, but it's hard for me to understand where the line is drawn with jokes about your history, being an uncultured American, yanno.
It's a bit of a complicated issue.
Generally I would say that jokes about Nazis or Hitler are not that much of a problem - at least not with the post-war generation of Germans
Examples would be e.g., "Adolf" comic books by Walter Moers (http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/3821829591.03.LZZZZZZZ.gif).
However, the context and the tone is certainly important. If "jokes" get too blunt and overused it can get a tad annoying
Just A Girl
01-12-2006, 08:56
kann ich Ein Stella artuois...
That says
can i have A stella artuois ?
I hope this is not telling me to go ask for a punch in the eye and call the bar man a glass of stella....
Cos ive told a freind how to order something in welsh before. he was suprized how many shops he was asked to leave, untill he found out what hed been saying.
"fedrai cael rhiw hefo chi?" (can i have sex with you)
is what i told him to ask ....
when he wanted
"gai 20 embasy ac leitar" (can i have 20 embasy and a lighter)
Just A Girl
01-12-2006, 10:40
so long as the text Is not to bad, I spose its ok,
Sticking swastikas (however you spell it) On the helmet. Would probably make it bad taste,
Personally The helmet to me isnt someting id accosiate overly with germans,
Im quite sure the origional designe of the helmet was more of a practical thing than being an asthetic thing.
Its a common shape reminicant of bronze age helmets.
And with the Tail like nect protector at the back It is Higly reminicant of a romans helmet.
Minus all the shiny bits and extra asthetics romans had.
To me its just a nother helmet Designed for a purpouse.
And now The Bleak purpous it used to have, has been changed in to a humerous...
well a witty...
Um....
A funny...
bah It sux as a joke really dosent it?
but i sypose they tried.
Any way the thig is a helmet. but atleast its not being used in a war any more.
So i guess it aint bad.
English assassin
01-12-2006, 10:45
I'm not German (obviously) but I imagine the problem would be knowing how to react. After all if they laugh at the nazi joke will people think they are saying they think the nazis were funny? And if they don't laugh will people think they are thinking that the nazis were a good thing?
I mean, if an Irish person made a joke to me involving the Irish potato famine I think I'd find it pretty difficult to know how to respond. So IMHO its politer not to make those jokes.
An orange imperial german helmet on the other hand would be OK.
Do the Dutch still do chants about bicycles at matches with Germany BTW? I'm told by my mother in law that they used to sing "You'll never get our bicycles" in the 70's which must have been very confusing to an outsider.
kann ich Ein Stella artuois...
That says
can i have A stella artuois ?
Kann ich ein Stella Artois haben?
Quid
considering Holland had its own nazi party that ruled over them at the time of the war.
That is not... entirely true. But Dutch conduct during the War isn't something to be proud of either, indeed.
Do the Dutch still do chants about bicycles at matches with Germany BTW? I'm told by my mother in law that they used to sing "You'll never get our bicycles" in the 70's which must have been very confusing to an outsider. That is indeed still a running gag amongst Dutchmen, yes. I don't think it is actually chanted anymore. But many bad jokes about Germans, football and te War have been made. The most current one is equating the German occupation in '40-'45 with the (West-)German 'Mannschaft' defeating the Dutch in the finals of the 1974 World Championship. Both are 'humourously' considered to be equally injust. Anyway, references to the War and the Holocaust are common enough in Dutch football. One of the most infamous is that of supporters of a team opposing Ajax making hissing noises as in a gaschamber (Ajax is 'proudly known' as the "Jews" by both themselves and others).
About the helmet itself though, it could be considered as a joke about the German habit to "rule" (at football, of course). The helmet itself is formed after a normal Wehrmacht-helmet that has in itself nothing to do with the Holocaust and has been worn by German soldiers since 1916. I do, however, see how most people could consider it offensive and really bad taste.
Taffy_is_a_Taff
01-12-2006, 16:01
he was suprized how many shops he was asked to leave, untill he found out what hed been saying.
"fedrai cael rhiw hefo chi?" (can i have sex with you)
is what i told him to ask ....
when he wanted
"gai 20 embasy ac leitar" (can i have 20 embasy and a lighter)
:knuddel:
:2thumbsup:
You would have thought that the Dutch had seen enough of hats like that......
Taffy_is_a_Taff
01-12-2006, 19:10
Originally Posted by Just A Girl
he was suprized how many shops he was asked to leave, untill he found out what hed been saying.
"fedrai cael rhiw hefo chi?" (can i have sex with you)
is what i told him to ask ....
when he wanted
"gai 20 embasy ac leitar" (can i have 20 embasy and a lighter)
:knuddel:
:2thumbsup:
Actually that's a bit harsh.
Funny though.
"jetzt geht loss" meant "JUST GET LOST" in moonglish.
Read about this before. A bit strange, considering the Dutch didn't exactly fight off the Germans that much.
Side Note: 401st post joy!
We fought them off for 5 days, we didn't surrender until they bombed Rotterdam into oblivion, and told us Amsterdam was next. Was a done deal to begin with of course, but only Holland and Poland tried.
That is not... entirely true. But Dutch conduct during the War isn't something to be proud of either, indeed.
Why is that, most of our jews survived because of our reluctance to give them, think oktoberstrike, unheard of in WW2 history. It is a quite fashionable thing to say nowadays, especially by the lefties, that we 'misbehaved', but bullshit nonetheless. The dutch jews know better.
Just A Girl
01-13-2006, 13:47
Most of the german jews were Sent Out of germany To poland and Holland Exetera.
Thats probably why your jews survived,
After that they started to murder them as there ws no where left to send them (i think thats how it happend)
then later after they had been geting murderd. that guy schindler. or some 1 Helped more escape.
I never heard of Germany Activly seeking more Jews from oustide germany To kill.
I thought they just did not want them in germany.
Ser Clegane
01-13-2006, 14:14
I never heard of Germany Activly seeking more Jews from oustide germany To kill.
I thought they just did not want them in germany.
They murdered them no matter where they came from (roughly half of them were Polish IIRC)
Just A Girl
01-13-2006, 14:39
are there any documents to this effect?
I like knowlage,
And i dont wish to be without, it seems That I am a little lacking in knowlage on this subject.
This i can tell my self with the boadness of my Statement.
you know how it is...
"the broader a mans statment The narower his mind"
but then again
"if knowlage is an island Then the shores shal be ignorance. The grater the island of knowlage The vaster the shores of ingorance"
but never the less.
I like knowing stuff So Link me plz
:)
Ser Clegane
01-13-2006, 14:50
The Wikipedia entry on the Holocaust (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust)is probably a good starting point (sorry that I cannot provide more links on an ad hoc)
Just A Girl
01-13-2006, 14:54
That is ok..
I m prety sure this has most of the info i need.
And anything i pick up and wish to be educated about in there I can google.
TYVM by the way
:bow:
Kralizec
01-13-2006, 20:16
Why is that, most of our jews survived because of our reluctance to give them, think oktoberstrike, unheard of in WW2 history. It is a quite fashionable thing to say nowadays, especially by the lefties, that we 'misbehaved', but bullshit nonetheless. The dutch jews know better.
Bullshit. I don't think we "misbehaved" as you put it or at least not moreso then any other country, but the fact is that the Germans deported the majority of our jewish population. We had top notch civilian records at the time, so it was easier for the Germans to deterimine who had jewish heritage and who not.
Why is that, most of our jews survived because of our reluctance to give them, think oktoberstrike, unheard of in WW2 history. It is a quite fashionable thing to say nowadays, especially by the lefties, that we 'misbehaved', but bullshit nonetheless. The dutch jews know better.Bullshit. I don't think we "misbehaved" as you put it or at least not moreso then any other country, but the fact is that the Germans deported the majority of our jewish population. We had top notch civilian records at the time, so it was easier for the Germans to deterimine who had jewish heritage and who not.
Indeed. The Netherlands have the highest percentage of Jews deported of all European countries (with the possible exception of Poland). And it is a fact that, although we had a resistance movement (let them be praised forever) it started rather late and was far more marginal then elsewhere (even than in Germany itself.) I happily would discuss this further, but this doesn't seem the right place to me.
Was a done deal to begin with of course, but only Holland and Poland tried. I don't get this comment. Belgium, for example, resisted the German attack for 18 days.
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