A interesting find on North Korea

[Redleg]

I was just surfing the web and found this interesting bit of information on the defensive plan for South Korea. The interesting thing is that the OPLAN name on the site matches what I know as the security plan name when I was in Korea. Edit: this information was at one time extremely classified.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/oplan-5027.htm

[master of the puppets]

well personally i'm happy to think there is some plan regarding NK, i just thought we would dive in if the need aroused.

[A.Saturnus]

BTW, did they find their dictator back?

[Reenk Roink]

Man, there is just a huge obsession with the "Axis of Evil." ~:rolleyes:

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I didn't have time to read it all but that's awesome.

[Tribesman]

Some interesting changes there , the slow them down at the border until reinforcements arrive is changed somewhat with the redeployment of major US forces further south beyond the initial range of artillery .
Also if interest is that due to "political considerations" many of the in-theatre reinforcements have been moved from Japan to Guam thus lengthening their response time , plus the reduction in availability of troops and assets due to other operations .
In my opinion resumption of hostilities on the peninsula would lead to the destruction of both North and South Korea , not a nice thought .
Now if we could get rid of the North without the destruction of the South , well .....not bloody likely , the mad dictator has nukes and a heavily brainwashed population .:shrug:
Perhaps we could offer Kim a trip to Graceland to visit Elvis as he isn't really dead , then kidnap him and allow the population to slowly return to normality .

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Heh, Redleg, is there any way the DPRK COULD win the war? Like, at all?

I'm playing as them in an online forum game and it looks like the war is gonna start soon.

[Redleg]

Heh, Redleg, is there any way the DPRK COULD win the war? Like, at all?

I'm playing as them in an online forum game and it looks like the war is gonna start soon.

Several warfighter exercises I particapated in when I was in - happen to have the North Korean's capture the capital several times. Taking the capital of South Korea basically gives the North the victory.

Every scenerio has it a tough battle - everything on the Allied side depends on not letting North Korea get past Defensive Line C during the first three days of conflict. That is why I found it interesting that Defensive Plan 5027 is basically on the net.

[Redleg]

Man, there is just a huge obsession with the "Axis of Evil." ~:rolleyes:

I have been interested in North Korea and the defense of South Korea since about 1985 when I first joined the military. Your sarcasm is misplaced.

[Redleg]

Some interesting changes there , the slow them down at the border until reinforcements arrive is changed somewhat with the redeployment of major US forces further south beyond the initial range of artillery .
Also if interest is that due to "political considerations" many of the in-theatre reinforcements have been moved from Japan to Guam thus lengthening their response time , plus the reduction in availability of troops and assets due to other operations .
In my opinion resumption of hostilities on the peninsula would lead to the destruction of both North and South Korea , not a nice thought .
Now if we could get rid of the North without the destruction of the South , well .....not bloody likely , the mad dictator has nukes and a heavily brainwashed population .:shrug:
Perhaps we could offer Kim a trip to Graceland to visit Elvis as he isn't really dead , then kidnap him and allow the population to slowly return to normality .

I am attempting to find updates to the plan that are not classified - but alas only decent link I have found so far is the one I stumbled across.

[Tribesman]

I have been interested in North Korea and the defense of South Korea since about 1985 when I first joined the military.
Red , out of curiosity , could you envision any conflict on the peninsula that didn't entail the near or total destruction of both countries ?

[Ice]

Several warfighter exercises I particapated in when I was in - happen to have the North Korean's capture the capital several times. Taking the capital of South Korea basically gives the North the victory.

Every scenerio has it a tough battle - everything on the Allied side depends on not letting North Korea get past Defensive Line C during the first three days of conflict. That is why I found it interesting that Defensive Plan 5027 is basically on the net.

If this happened, wouldnt the United States just recapture Seoul? I mean, I know the North Korean army is big, but come on, doesn't the US have vastily superior technology?

[Watchman]

Urban combat sucks even then, but I must admit I'm also somewhat curious on how exactly the NK troops are supposed to get anywhere without, to paraphrase one satirical cartoon, "having a million tonne explosives dropped on them from outer space" ?

[Atilius]

Taking the capital of South Korea basically gives the North the victory.

Do you know why this assumption is made, Red? During the Korean War, the NKs and Chinese each captured it once, the RoK/US/UN took it back both times and nobody won.

[bmolsson]

There will be no conflict. If there where to be one, it would be a pathetic waste of lives......

[Kaiser of Arabia]

The only thing NK has on the SK and US is the fact that it has 1.1 million active personell and another 4.2 million reserves, 10 nuclear armed ICBMs (Taepo-Dongs nontheless ~D), an insane dictator, and alot of tanks.

[Ice]

The only thing NK has on the SK and US is the fact that it has 1.1 million active personell and another 4.2 million reserves, 10 nuclear armed ICBMs (Taepo-Dongs nontheless ~D), an insane dictator, and alot of tanks.

All of which is aging Soviet era technology. A war with North Korea wouldn't last long. After we would defeat North Korea, we would show their population how they have been lied to their entire lives and how the rest of the free world actually lives.

[Samurai Waki]

I wonder if any North Koreans have thought that when someone defects to the South, why they never come back?

[Lentonius]

north attacks south, americans attack north, chinese attack ameriacans, japanese attack chinese, russians eventually decide they want a chance to attack the US, the UK attacks the russians, Europe attacks russians, soviet bloc countries attack europe,

and that destroys the world

[Samurai Waki]

Meh. I highly doubt that...if anything Russia might want a crack at gaining some Valuable North Korean Property if the Situation arose. China doesn't seem that interested in Korea anymore, anyways, because China is less about spreading ideology and more about protecting the interests of their people. Japan wouldn't want to upset the balance, so they would probably remain aloof (but on guard), and I believe South Korea would have the backing (and maybe a few divisions) sent from European countries, mostly The UK, Belgium, Spain, Italy, and Germany. The Former Soviet Bloc Countries could hardly give a rat's *** about the interests of Russia, in fact, many Former Soviet Bloc countries greatly resent Russia...

Basically right now, Kim Jong-Ill doesn't really have any support. The Only Reason why China has any interest in North Korea right now, is so that Kim might be a little more lenient on economic agreements that might benefit China.

Oh, and Mr. Ill wouldn't have to worry just about the US, they'd also have to Worry about ANZAC being not very close behind the US in response. Ummm...yeah...The Domino's will fall like a house of cards...checkmate.

[Watchman]

If North Korea starts trouble, China will probably stomp on them. It somewhat eludes me why the old greedy men in Beijing would be interested in carrying out a suicide pact with Kim by siding with him.

Many former East Block countries were camping at the door of NATO like so many Harry Potter fans at the ticket office. Most of them could hardly care less about what Russia wants, save in negative terms. Why Russia would court suicide (if only economic) by fighting the US is also rather beyond me - it's one thing to compete with the sole remaining hyperpower in Central Asia, and entirely another to fight it.

Nevermind now that half of the EU, which just happens to be about Russia's main trading partner, is in the NATO...

Methinks someone still has the old Cold War tapes running.

[Redleg]

I have been interested in North Korea and the defense of South Korea since about 1985 when I first joined the military.
Red , out of curiosity , could you envision any conflict on the peninsula that didn't entail the near or total destruction of both countries ?

Not really. THe best is that the North Korean attack is stopped at Defensive Line C - about 20 kilometers north of the Soeul. But Soeul gets hit with lots of artillery.

Given that most of the population of SOuth Korea is from the Soeul to the DMZ area - its pretty much a near to total destruction scenerio for both.

[Redleg]

Do you know why this assumption is made, Red? During the Korean War, the NKs and Chinese each captured it once, the RoK/US/UN took it back both times and nobody won.

Because of the population density of the nation and where it is located.

[Byzantine Prince]

Once Kim Jong Il is dead or overthrown by his party for being so much richer than them, N.Korea will become like China, slowly merging the two economic systems and keeping the same leadership. There are already western factories near the border with the south.

The problem will become really difficult for the NKs of having employment for people because they can't feed their population and very few people outside the major cities have jobs anymore, they will eventually decide to let foreign companies in their secretive state.

[Watchman]

Personally I suspect it will just one day suddenly... unravel. With everyone else blinking in owlish confusion from the sidelines. That seems to be what happens to such ossified systems when their sheer dysfunctionality reaches some sort of invisible critical mass and even the nomenklatura lose trust in the whole effigy.

Or at least that's what happened to the whole Warsaw Pact in the end. It just sort of burst at the seams and collapsed despite having looked perfectly monolithic and stable only a few years earlier. Even its own secret polices do not seem to have had much clue of what was about to happen. Sort of like how old crumbling buildings built on crappy foundations fall over one day without any visible cause.

'Course, compared to NK the old USSR was a perfectly sane, credible and competently run organization. It wouldn't surprise me overmuch if the former imploded quite spectacularly instead, or did something really stupid as its swan song and got taken down by everyone else in the immediate vicinity.