Seems some do not believe I am UglyElmo

[UglyElmo2]

I must give my goodbyes after 5+ years participating here. Given my old email account is no longer valid and I do not remember my old password, I have no way of posting in the other sections. A few people here appear to have doubts as to my real identity. Thinking I am imitating Elmo. Since I am not sure what proof I could provide which would make certain individuals 100% sure, I haved decided to finally and completely retire from this forum. It is obvious my participation here is not wanted so therefor I will go to the .com, the Pond and the Ugli forums instead.

Most of you have known me as UglyElmo or ElmarkOFear. Please feel free to visit our ugli website or join me at the .com forums. I am still known there as ElmarkOFear.

To any moderator or admin: Please delete my "TW wishlist" thread in the MP section of this forum. I will no longer be able to work on it or reply with questions.

Good luck in the future.

UglyElmo aka. ElmarkOFear

[CBR]

You always were a quitter Elmo :laugh4:

But yes I do find it odd how you could manage to login on your ElmarkOFear account and then merely 11 hours later forget your password. But I guess its the age ~;)

I can make an account on Ugli forums for you to PM with your new email?


CBR

[ElmarkOFear]

Seems the work PC still remembers my ElmarkOFear name and password, but unfortunately I no longer have the old email addy attached to it and thus, cannot get the password sent to me.

What I find unfortunate is Tosa claiming I could be an imposter. I even mentioned the "CAV ARE OVERPOWERED" discussion you and I were having and how I was sent a warning by both Tosa AND Tootie. :)

Anyways, my retirement is still in effect. You may delete the ElmarkOFear, UglyElmo and UglyElmo2 accounts.

Its been fun, but time to move on.

[Monarch]

I'm not sure about vBulletin, but I used to be active on InvisionFree forums and we often had this trouble over forgotten passwords and proving identity. Back then, admins could see a posters IP address, if this normalname2's IP adress matched normalname's IP adress then obviously it's the same guy.

Could this technique not be applied here?

However if it cannot, then I guess have fun over at .com :)

[KukriKhan]

Much depends on whether the IP address is 'dynamic' (changes on every login) or 'static' (always the same). Nevertheless, we did follow the protocol you outlined above. There were (are) 5 different account names, linked to 5 different emails, and 3 verifiable IP addresses.

We take our member's privacy and account integrity very seriously here - in the past, we have had non-members attempt to masquerade as known, reputable members. So we scrutinize password issues very closely.

After "due diligence" investigation, we offered to reset this member's password. Whether he takes the offer, or continues to visit, is up to him.

[Monarch]

Much depends on whether the IP address is 'dynamic' (changes on every login) or 'static' (always the same). Nevertheless, we did follow the protocol you outlined above. There were (are) 5 different account names, linked to 5 different emails, and 3 verifiable IP addresses.

We take our member's privacy and account integrity very seriously here - in the past, we have had non-members attempt to masquerade as known, reputable members. So we scrutinize password issues very closely.

After "due diligence" investigation, we offered to reset this member's password. Whether he takes the offer, or continues to visit, is up to him.

Ah yeah I forgot about those dynamic IPs. Still, how are you getting the IPs? (I gotta learn more about vB :idea2: ) On InvisionFree it appeared every time somebody made a post, under their user name. Thus you can tell if it's dyamic by looking at old posts and comparing. So if the original account did not have a proxy, then the method I described above could be employed.

[t1master]

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm11.showMessage?topicID=917.topic

there's elmarko's post at the .com

interesting times in the mp community eh? :furious3:

[Duke John]

That is a shame to hear, I always found it fun to read about your adventures on the battlefield!

[R'as al Ghul]

Seems the work PC still remembers my ElmarkOFear name and password, but unfortunately I no longer have the old email addy attached to it and thus, cannot get the password sent to me.


You could copy the cookies set by totalwar.org to your
private computer. You should be able to log in from home, then.

:bow:

[TosaInu]

01-18-2006, 01:10 PM UglyElmo2 to TosaInu


Hi Tosa. I have moved email addys as have lost my old passwords for ElmarkOFear and UglyElmo. I had things on "remember my password" but it didn't remember for some reason. :)

If you would, please give the permissions for this new username for the rest of the forums.

Thanks

BTW: You still playing MTW or STW at all?

:It is possible that Elmo lost his passwords and can no longer use his old accounts, it's nasty to lose your years old trusty account like that, an account that also got a few privileges here -> verify it is Elmo and send him new details:


01-18-2006, 10:11 PM from TosaInu to UglyElmo2


Hello UglyElmo2,

It's possible to manually reset the ElmarkOFear and/or UglyElmo accounts.

ElmarkOFear is a known in the totalwar community, thus I require proof that those accounts don't fall to the wrong hands.

:This is redundant, if not an outright lie, as we always take care when users lost their details. But some extra care has to be taken here as (I'm so bad and biased):
-ElmarkOFear is around for 5 years,
-It's a high privilege account
-Elmark operates in the MP scene and it would not be the first time one tries to pull the other a leg for 'giggles'.
-I recall seeing a low postcount Elmo lately: could be Elmo or indeed someone -^ Follow up now: yes I saw a pussiecat, but that is just another of Elmos accounts. No problem, no worry, me bad, me paranoid, me very nasty.
I'm also very sorry for the terrible 9 (NINE) hours it took to respond.:


01-18-2006, 18:18 PM UglyElmo2 to TosaInu


Here is some proof for you: MTW CAV ARE OVERPOWERED! And you can tell Name Removed By Admin I said so! :)

How do I manually reset my old username when I no longer have access to the old email addy and do not remember the password? I believe the password for my ElmarkOFear name was the old one from when I was a moderator here: Some random string that can be a part of a password removed by Admin .. . . I cannot remember the password unfortunately.

My old email addy is: e-mail removed by Admin the new one is another, new, e-mail removed by Admin . Let me know what other info. you may need. You can visit the Ugly site and ask Olds or Obake if I am who I say I am. :) I can send you a jug o' my infamous shine or I can threaten to send you naked pics of myself if you don't let me in! hehe


:Several people in the community know Elmo says/feels/knows MTW cav are overpowered. I can't tell from this it's Elmo.

-I don't know this new e-mail addy, it looks like the old one, which is in neither profiles, but that doesn't prove me anything either. Luck and Duck also look similar, I know I'm dumb. I do recall that the old e-mail is used by Elmo in the past to contact me and I'm sure that was Elmo. I can shut down this PC, swap all cables, boot the old PC and check old mails, but the old mail no longer works. So, I can't just e-mail Elmo to ask.

-Elmo was moderator here. Yes, that's right. But several people know that.

-Jug o shine or send naked pics of myself: several people know this too and anyone could write this.

So I need to learn more to ensure the valuable account doesn't fall to the wrong person.:


01-18-2006, 18:45 PM TosaInu to UglyElmo

27 minutes, still slow but it's getting better.


Hello UglyElmo2,

MTW cav are overpowered: sorry too vague. No proof.

Old e-mail: not according to the database. No proof.

ElmarkOFear aka UglyElmo was a moderator here long ago. It's possible for the admin to check on Some random string that can be a part of a password removed by Admin, but since it's not proven that you're the owner of those accounts, I can't ask permission nor do.

Obake is added in both my ICQ and MSN contact list for years. I know the nick and trust his word. So, the Obake ICQ/MSN account giving the ok would be good.

ElmarkOFear aka UglyElmo and I know each other for years. There are enough other identifications.

Threats/'threats' and blackmail/'blackmail' is not something that would work.

:It's Elmo in which case the account should be re-activated or it's an imposter in which case he shouldn't be made wiser by silly me talking too much. It is Elmo, in which case it was a 'threat' or it's an imposter and the next move is stirring trouble in the forums to get his way, in which case it is a threat. Per his own suggestion, I'll contact Obake about this. Tosa checking ICQ and MSN: no Obake is not on, different timezones.

Kids ask mom a cookie and then go to dad when they don't get it (immediately), disclaimer: thinking kid in case it's an imposter, thus I have to inform KukriKhan too:


01-18-2006, 18:49 PM TosaInu to KukriKhan
4 minutes! I start to rock! :jumping: :elephant:


Hello KukriKhan,

I received a PM about this. Since Elmark is a known and me not wanting to give his account to the imposter jerks that swarm around this community for years, I want solid proof.

Let me handle this please and let me be the dork.

:Canine intuition.
Still don't see Obake and I have to prepare to leave into the real world tonight. Don't laugh, it's scary enough for an uncertain paranoid poodle with all those people outside. I'll try to contact Obake later.:


01-18-2006, 20:06 PM UglyElmo2 to TosaInu.

I saw this later as I wasn't home yet. Not because I ran into some imposter or any other such scary thing.


Considering the fact I included Name Removed By Admin name and the CAV are overpowered comment, plus mentioned my infamous Jug O' Shine and provided a valid another, new, e-mail removed by Admin email addy, and since I am only asking that you give permissions for me to use this name UglyElmo2 and not my other two old ones, I must assume you do not really want me to participate here at the .org any further. I am not sure who you think I might be, or what proof I could add which would convince you, but I am not going to jump through hoops to satsify you. I remember when I was arguing with Name Removed By Admin over the CAV ARE TOO OVERPOWERED and mentioned something, sarcastically, to the effect "A few of the beta testers had their way and got what they wanted; You and Tootie took it upon themselves to send me PMs stating I was close to being banned.

BTW: Since when did you lose your sense of humor, not recognizing my "send naked pics" as one of my old lines to explaining the only way I could win a few matches?

Later Tosa. I tire of this.

:New data, but still nothing that hasn't gone through the entire ether 3 times. I do not know all actions by Tootee, when he was moderator here (a public secret, never told to anyone), but I never sent Elmo a PM to state he was close to getting banned. So, my corrupt paranoia only grows stronger, sigh Boy always got such big teeth?
Obake is still not online.:


01-18-2006, 20:14 https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=59893

:This is stage 2 and I'm even more worried now. A reply, ElmarkOFear would have been online earlier today? Still no Obake, I'm going to do something different and search for Obakes known to mee-mail. Then I can either wack the imposter into oblivion or restore Elmo.

Mail from TosaInu to Obake:


Hello Obake,

There's an UglyElmo2 account at org. That account is claiming it's ElmarkOFear.

I'm always cautious in these situations, the more when it involves accounts of well known people.

So I asked UglyElmo2 for some proof too. We 'know' each other for some time, so he could either bring up solid proof or tell me something. Not so, proof was either not what the database claims or too vague (I know about stories circulating, anyone can pick it up). I told him it was not enough/correct and upon his own proposal that Obakes word should do it.

Do you know Obake? Is UglyElmo2 ElmarkOFear, or is an imposter at work? https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=59893

Ja mata
Tosa

P.S. I'm in your MSN and ICQ contact list, reply to this or you can e-mail me at tosainu@totalwar.org and/or PM me at org.

:No reply yet for whatever reason. But there's great joy: ElmarkOFear just came online :jumping::


1-19-06 02:33 PM from TosaInu to ElmarkOFear:
I know, little paranoid critters like me should get to bed by 7.


Hello ElmarkOFear,

I was PM'ed by UglyElmo2 today. Is that one of your accounts?

:Now I'll be enlightened, be able to solve this with one stroke and then go to bed:


1-19-06 03:05
32 minutes is a long wait when dogtired.


The UglyElmo2 account was from home.

: :jumping: little silly paranoid me was worried for nothing: it IS Elmo! Now I can simply pass the new details for both accounts to Elmo and/or ElmarkOFear and everything will be fine. What a joyful end of the day.. wait it's past 24.00.. what a joyful start of a new day!:

PM continues:

For some reason the "Remember Password" didn't work on it. My work PC still remembers the password though, otherwise I would never have been able to see this.

:I'm a naughty boy, still online, see ElmarkOFear online and thus I PM'ed ElmarkOFear. UglyElmo2 claimed to be Elmo who lost the pass for the old accounts. That could be true, so it's little use to PM ElmarkOFear. Dutch logic, never mind.

Anyway, yes, that's a plausibel possibility. But Elmo and anyone else, make sure others can not use that computer. I know, I know, a slim chance, but collegues pull legs too.:

PM continues:

I also am not sure why my email addy for the ElmarkOFear username did not match up, unless it was from this work PC: yet another, but old, e-mail removed by Admin If that is the case it should have been a big hint to you as to my authenticity, since everyone knows I work at Company name removed by paranoid Admin to prevent lawsuits as an Job function removed by paranoid Admin to prevent lawsuits.

:The logic about the hint fails me: ElmarkOFear would have the yet another, but old, e-mail removed by Admin e-mail, that should wake me up because it is known to everyone that Elmo works at Company name removed by paranoid Admin to prevent lawsuits and thus an account that doesn't have that Company name removed by paranoid Admin to prevent lawsuits e-mail attached, but claims to be Elmo is Elmo, as the real Elmo can proof he's Elmo because he has the right e-mail?

Ergo, anyone who claims to be me, should be given details to log into the TosaInu account as my account is linked to the e-mail I put there?
I need to sit down and think for a while about this advanced logic. But hey, it's ElmarkOFear, not an imposter, drinks on the house and lets all dance. Finish reading the PM and send a reply to coordinate the reset, don't waste any more time on things you can never understand Tosa!:

PM continues:
[quote]Please remove all of my accounts. I will not be participating here in the future.

:???:

PM continues

PS: There is a thread concerning the MP Wishlist. Once people have finished adding to it, please forward the information to Ritchie at CA. I offered to put one together for CA to be looked at for any future TW games.

:The topic says: 'To any moderator or admin: Please delete my "TW wishlist' thread in the MP section of this forum. I will no longer be able to work on it or reply with questions.' I'm lost.:


1-19-06 03:13 PM from TosaInu to ElmarkOFear.
8 minutes! It rocks to be dutch :2thumbsup: :elephant:


Hello ElmarkOFear,

I've said that Obakes word would do it and e-mailed him using the contact I have.

Since you activated this now, I can reset e-mail and then you can either reset the password yourself or have me do it. I can also send details to UglyElmo2.

:No reply, no constructive private ones anyway, no e-mails, PM's or messages in any of my boxes.:


1-19-06 02:27
Going back in time.

Seems the work PC still remembers my ElmarkOFear name and password, but unfortunately I no longer have the old email addy attached to it and thus, cannot get the password sent to me.

:I understand that, several accounts before this had the same/similar problems. Some records that contained account details were even totally erased from the database. After some identification, which is context sensitive, all reported ouchies were quickly cured.:


What I find unfortunate is Tosa claiming I could be an imposter.
:It's not the first time an account is hi-jacked. Who's blamed when that happens?:


I even mentioned the "CAV ARE OVERPOWERED" discussion you and I were having and how I was sent a warning by both Tosa AND Tootie. :)

:No idea what Tootee did, yet if he sent anything that would negatively affect your account, I would notice. I never sent you a warning, though I have once used the warning system to force e-mail, PM and auto inclusion of the topic URL. No warning points, but there was a big fat disclaimer in the header about it not being a warning.:


Anyways, my retirement is still in effect. You may delete the ElmarkOFear, UglyElmo and UglyElmo2 accounts.

Its been fun, but time to move on.


interesting times in the mp community eh? :furious3:

Very.

http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotalwarfrm11.showMessage?topicID=917.topic


..Being unable to convince the admin of my identity, I have not been given the permissions to participate in the main .org forums using a new name: UglyElmo2. With that having been said, those of you who participate there please inform the .org patrons who have known me, that I will no longer be posting there. ..

:Bending the facts a little? Uglyelmo2, who was unidentified at that time, stated by PM that ElmarkOFear lost his passwords. Knowing how important accounts are, I offered assistance to recover.:


..I am not sure why I was given a hard time in registering the new name. I guess they weren't 100% sure it was me until now. ..

:Who gave you a hard time to register UglyElmo2?:


..I do not have time to go through my entire 5+ years of TW history and hassle my friends to send them a PM trying to convince them I am who I say I am. ..


Here is some proof for you: MTW CAV ARE OVERPOWERED! And you can tell Name Removed By AdminI said so! :)

:You lose your passwords and I have to bug people to recover it? Actually I did: I mailed Obake.:


The TW community isn't what it used to be:\

Never known a community to die whilst a game was still supposedly current, until now.

Kans.......

Nice to see two familiar names in here.

:Paint me black baby! I can walk the streets at night and noone will see me
https://forums.totalwar.org//vb/images/smilies/misc/belephant.gif

Why the MP isn't what it used to be? Because of all this sillyness and making the silent/shy/weak people bleed for your own errors:



Now, I also got to learn something from all this, otherwise the horrible and unsighty ritual sacrifice would be all for nothing. Even someone as draconic as me would not be able to enjoy tea then.

In the unfortunate event that the reader has an active account here and in the even more unfortunate possibility something happens to your account (dropped from database, lost password, e-mail move etc.) and the reader contacts me about it, then he or she or it will be asked (in Private) to identify. I'm dutch and I will remain dutch. The bigger you are, so to speak, the more I will ask (not about credit card info or such things though). I completely understand now that this is not acceptable, but hey I'm dutch. To avoid any further sillyness: state here if you don't want the rescue interrogation.

PM used in this post is short for Private Message, not a time format.
The quotes indicate what's said in PM.
:: indicates dutch thoughts.

[Just A Girl]

I dont post on web pages that Post ip adresses under user names, for this simple reason, It allows hackers to see Individual peoples Ip adresses.

hacking some 1 is very easy these days,
And the only thing stoping some form doing it is the fact they dont know there victims Ip adress.

I would not advize the addition of ip adresses to posts.

[KukriKhan]

We do not, and will not display IP addresses. They are in the database for perusal by authorized Admins, but the privacy and security issues you guys allude to preclude their public publication.

And, for the record: I admit that it did take me just under 10 hours from the time UglyElmo2 originally requested assistance to the time I could verify account detail correlation.

By that time, the member had announced his 'retirement'. My excuse is: I had to transport my son to his enlistment flight to Georgia.

Sorry it took so long. :bow:

[solypsist]

when i returned from japan i had the same problem, forgotten p/w, etc. but luckily had a direct line to Tosa (who contacted me first!) and so was hooked up.

[t1master]

i think elmo's point is, that the days of infiltration are long gone and that perhaps the hyper level of paranoia and caution, which at one time may have been warranted are not now... all the players who were around and affected during the vicisious clan wars, and password stealing are no longer active in the game. and that the old community is soooo small and scattered as to make such a level of security a bit over the top...

do you still visit the ugli.org forums tosa? elmo posted there about his dilema as well..

:bow:

[KukriKhan]

+
i think elmo's point is, that the days of infiltration are long gone and that perhaps the hyper level of paranoia and caution, which at one time may have been warranted are not now... all the players who were around and affected during the vicisious clan wars, and password stealing are no longer active in the game. and that the old community is soooo small and scattered as to make such a level of security a bit over the top...

You might be right - point taken.

But consider: what if it had gone the other way? If UglyElmo2 was not ElmarkOFear, but instead Henry-the-Hacker, intent on harm, a spoof, a joke, or worse?

We surrender the password ('cause hey! he quoted content on view here for years).

Henry-the-Hacker (alias Elmo) starts posting some racist crap. Gets warned. Posts some more bad stuff. Gets banned. ElmarkOFear can only protest using a different name; meanwhile his name in the .com, .net, ugli, etc community gets brought into question.

Henry has elmo's email info and whatever other info Elmo put in his profile, and hacks into the webmail version of his account. Curses out Grandma, tells the boss he quits, and changes his order for a spindle of blank CD's to an order for a 46" plasma TV, to a new address.

Extreme? Maybe. Does it happen every day? You bet. Plenty of stories here: http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/fraud/idtheft.html and elsewhere.

And we don't want to contribute to the odds of identity theft. So we're careful. The 50 or so other members I've reset passwords for have understood and appreciated our paranoid, hyper, over-the-top measures.

[Drisos]

http://imcintosh.com/ugly/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=606&sid=e9491c571ee0f14975d49aea76d1b6eb

His reaction over there will proove things.:2thumbsup:

[Mithrandir]

Why must there be so much drama over so many little things. I've got nothing against Elmo, sooner the opposite since we've had quite a few fun games in MTW (Glorfindel). However, as said above.

Besides even if Tosa was intent on giving you a hard time, why stop posting because one individual wants you too. Would you not do just as he'd like in that case?

Sigh. Come back Elmo, and to all :
Please stop being so dramatic :).

[Just A Girl]

Personaly I wouldnt stop posting here becous a few would prefer me not to.
"aslong as i think theres a reason for me to be here any way"
And given KukriKhan's reply as to why ID verification took so long. Prehaps elmo should now re-assesess his postition and oppinions regarding the situation.
"often helps to step back and re think matters 1ce in a while"

P.S
I think people Like drama....
And kurlikhan's post as to what harry the hacker may have gotten up to is Quite Dramatic lol.
But indeed it's quite possible.

[Quid]

I think the whole drama is very childish...nothing more to say about it.

Quid

[Adrian II]

Extreme? Maybe. Does it happen every day? You bet.Exactly. Most Internet users are happily oblivious to the risks. They associate hacking with avatar games and do not realise what devastation a real hacker can do to your Internet accounts, your bank account, your professional reputation or your personal life. I understand that the episode mentioned has been tiresome and frustrating for all concerned, but I appreciate the .org security measures. And particularly TosaInu's 'Dutch' attitude of 'thinking twice before acting' and not asking 'Elmo' the kind of questions that would give away the game if 'Elmo' were a real hacker.

Security is a top-down issue. The TosaInus of this world make the Elmos more security aware and force them into judicious Internet behaviour. I know that sounds sanctimonious. Too bad.

[t1master]

i still fail to see how giving uglyelmo2 access to post in the rest of the forums leads to a security leak/risk and identity theft. that was really all that was being asked intially.

the welcome lobby, and restricted access to monitor new posters has driven away a fair few vets who did not remember their logins after numerous board revisions and the winding of time, absence from the game etc...

however,i understand the caution and steps that are taken, after all....

tis your board, and your responsibiliy to maintain security as you see fit, and obviuosly the org does a fantastic job.

:bow:

[KukriKhan]

...the welcome lobby, and restricted access to monitor new posters has driven away a fair few vets who did not remember their logins after numerous board revisions and the winding of time, absence from the game etc...


Anyone, old or new, with login or password problems should PM Tosa or I, or - failing that - email jim@jimcee.com (that's me). As soon as correlation can be made, the member will be on their way to posting goodness.

Anyone who knows of someone with that or similar problems: let them know and/or contact me, for assistance.

[Papewaio]

Considering the not so distant past (Teragate) and a few X-rated porn hacks... I think be cautious is the thing to do.

Mr Hasty is being a tad too hasty methinks.

[TosaInu]

i still fail to see how giving uglyelmo2 access to post in the rest of the forums leads to a security leak/risk and identity theft. that was really all that was being asked intially.

Again, I know the importance of marbles. Stock prices vary of course. Why was I not told in the first reply to forget about the old accounts? The reply seemed like a follow up to continue restore?


the welcome lobby, and restricted access to monitor new posters has driven away a fair few vets who did not remember their logins after numerous board revisions and the winding of time, absence from the game etc...

I beg to differ.

UBB -> Ikonboard same password, since UBB stored them unencrypted in a flatfile. Same password, but now encrypted and stored safely.

Ikonboard -> VBulletin made a reset of the password necessary (software requirement), but a copy of the old Ikonboard was still there, including several FAT links to it, to help reset. The old password still worked there, so people who got stuck in the normal reset, could go there and ask me. The only reason that board is no more, is because the host disabled software to run it a year later. Several have been helped there, including vets and Elmo.

Vbulletin 3.03 -> 3.04 -> 3.05 -> -> 3.5.0 -> 3.51 -> 3.52 -> same password all the time.

So, only one reset, not numerous.


tis your board, and your responsibiliy to maintain security as you see fit, and obviuosly the org does a fantastic job.

I beg to differ again. When I joined, about 6 years ago, there was a friendly forum without any security, not even password protected accounts. Everything was happy and cool, until some/several decided it was 'fun' to impersonate others and post false and vulgar in their name. About every extra security step from that day on is the result from either some outsider or a 'giggling' community member: rules, moderators, more moderators, passwords, better passwords, EH, warning system to avoid overusing of bansticks, silent warnings to avoid cracking egos, swallowing potshots to save peace. BAH.

[t1master]

you are correct tosa... it would have been easier if elmo asked simply to give uglyelmo2 access to the mp forums.


swallowing potshots to save peace. BAH


tis your board, and your responsibiliy to maintain security as you see fit, and obviuosly the org does a fantastic job

i apologize if i sounded sarcastic and meant to offer no offence.

it is frustrating seeing the community that was once so vibrant and enjoyable slowly wind down.

:bow:

[TosaInu]

it is frustrating seeing the community that was once so vibrant and enjoyable slowly wind down.


I agree.




i apologize if i sounded sarcastic and meant to offer no offence.

While the possible little bit of sarcasm didn't go unnoticed, it's not what made me say potshot. I understand what you mean, t1master, and you don't have to apologize for that.

My point is that it's not a fantastic job, nor something that's done to please me, but unfortunately a position we're forced into. The EH is not fantastic, but we're all, staff and members, doing our best to make it something positive: both for new members and the people who are around for a bit longer. Going there, I'm reminded about the blackchatting critics, frequently vulgar, insulting and away from the full story, we got nevertheless. Quite a contrast with how it was 6 years ago. I'm furious about that, not at you.

[Just A Girl]

Well i personaly think the staff do a good job here.
I have had my discrepancys with some of the staff.

Although. During these discrepancys I was known to push the boundrys of acceptable behaviour,
the staff watched me atke small libertys, and allowed them to a point.

I really do beleve the staff here make this a good if not great forum.
One which I should add.
im proud to be a partial member of.

Of what i know about the situation (Is not much) the situation was seemingly delt with in a fair and just manner.

A slight time delay seems to have occured,
And seems to have helped provoke a reaction.
(Delays are inevitable, but i also know how easy it is to jump to conclusions)

I would hope Elmo would reconsider his position on the matter seing as The reasons for the delay Have been anounced, and Are more than justyfiable.

IMHO It would be a shame to loose a valuable member ofer such a dicrepancy.

:bow:

[TosaInu]

Hello,

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showpost.php?p=1570549&postcount=11


Secondly: I mentioned the secret question as a way to keep this from happening again. You never acknowledged it was an acceptable solution, so I did not bother to pursue the issue. Unless I have missed a PM somewhere and accidentally deleted it. If you have this PM, please post it here for me to see. I will be more than happy to accept responsibility if it is my oversight.

06/12/06, 12:17 PM ElmarkOFear -> TosaInu


Needless to say, I finally remembered my old username and password. I am still very dissappointed I could in no way convince you of my identity. Anyways expect to see a bit of me in the coming months since XXX (edited for privacy by TosaInu) convinced me to purchase M2TW. It still isn't as good as MTW/VI or STW's MP, but it is slightly better than RTW and it appears XXX (edited for privacy by TosaInu) is truly interested in improving it.

Take care and remember: CAV ARE TOO POWERFUL! :) And stay away from my handgunners! By the way, this is me . . . honest.

PS: How about me giving you a couple words I can use to identify myself if this happens again before my XXX (edited for privacy by TosaInu) kicks in once again . . . The words will be: "XXX (edited for privacy by TosaInu)" My real name, which only a few close online friends know and whom I know wouldn't hijack my account. BTW this coming from my XXX@ PC (edited for privacy by TosaInu). "X" stands for XXX and XXX is my last name.

06/12/06, 20:52 PM TosaInu -> ElmarkOFear

Hello ElmarkOFear,


This problem pops up from time to time: losing mail and/or password and me questioning identity. I will see what can be done.

08/12/06, 00:30
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=74329



As for you doing anything to remedy the situation, I still do not remember my password and have no way of changing my email addy without it, so I STILL cannot retrieve the password in the future.


The reason I was gone for so long was I was building a new house and was living somewhere without access to my old PC. You never offered to change anything for me, even after acknowledging I was who I was.

1-19-06 03:05 PM ElmarkOFear -> TosaInu


Please remove all of my accounts. I will not be participating here in the future.


Anyways, my retirement is still in effect. You may delete the ElmarkOFear, UglyElmo and UglyElmo2 accounts.

Its been fun, but time to move on.



We had several PMs between us, and to anyone else, it would have been ample proof.

And that's the problem I had: proof to anyone else == known to anyone else != no identification.


I provided the letters in the password, (unfortunately, I cannot seem to get them in the right order or proper case),

Passwords are encrypted, it's thus not possible to check partial passwords.


had a few patrons post here for me,

Please check post one. When we had this PRIVATE discussion, you could log in again using another computer that had the details in cache (?). One PRIVATE PM would suffice to reset your password, e-mail and whatever else you want changed, since you're back already, quicker than getting a reply from Obake or me diving into other means to verify. Instead you went public with a rant and quit. And we still are talking about it 1.5 years later.



I finally remembered my password (through chance) and was able to login again.


Had I not somehow typed my password in correctly on this PC, I have no doubt I would STILL be unable to prove to you who I am

or


My work PC still remembers the password though, otherwise I would never have been able to see this.

or


Needless to say, I finally remembered my old username and password.



suggested you email Obake,

Which I did.


As for you doing anything to remedy the situation, I still do not remember my password and have no way of changing my email addy without it, so I STILL cannot retrieve the password in the future.

Did the reply that arrived in my PM box, months after mine was sent, mention anything about there still being issues with the account? I only saw

Needless to say, I finally remembered my old username and password.


You decided to take a vacation after having your password back. When you returned 6 months later you replied to my yet unanswered PM. Part of that was the more constructive bit about avoiding this in the future. In reaction to that a secret q/secret a was added. You were the reason to add this, yet you haven't taken the 2 minutes yet to set it. What do you suggest me to do when I receive a PM from Elmo4 account claiming to be you? Just give a new password?

Please advise ElmarkOFear? What do you want to be reset, what do you expect me to do?

[Caius]

Why this topic has came to life again?

[Warmaster Horus]

Recent discussion in the Tournament Field (M2 multiplayer subforum) in the "Memory Lane" Thread. It began with a discussion about UGLI, a multiplayer type of thing I think, and then became a kind of flame between ElMarkOFear and Tosa.

[Husar]

Oh noes...:sweatdrop:

[ElmarkOFear]

I have already told the entire episode to a few others, who know the truth of the matter. Anyway, advising Tosa on anything is impossible. Those who need to know, know the actual facts. Besides, by the tone of the last few PMs I have received it is apparent I will soon be removed from this forum. The rules appear to be only for us peasants and not the elite .org inner circle. Even when the rules are not broken by us peasants, they will be interpreted as such.

Interesting how the admin of this site appears to think it is alright to post private PMs publicly, instead of PM'ing the intended victim. Plus, it is quite unbecoming of an admin to continue showing his temper, by necro-posting an old thread trying badly to prove some point which matters little now.

Oh look, my buddy Tito has PM'd me again. He is such an understanding and sensitive sort, I can't wait to read what encouraging words of wisdom he might have for me . . . . .

[tibilicus]

This is getting silly.


Why is this being thrown into the public eye excuse me for my words but I have to take a stand on this. If I may say so Tosa, your making an extremly bad move making this public it should be solved behind closed doors. Elmo same for you although as you mentioned, im expecting some one will try and kick you soon.
The .orgs getting too political again, it's not a good thing for every one, if people have issues it should be done in privacy not as a public centre stage.

tread carfully.

[Foz]

Well I guess I'll lend my 2 cents. I don't know ElmarkOFear, nor even Tosa very well (though he's pretty easy to get a feel for, what with comments about being Draconian and whatnot). What I can say, however, is that I don't think either of you has any business holding such a grudge over this. The whole thing is just way out of proportion. That said, I don't think you can really find fault with how Tosa handled this in the first place. Firstly, ~10 hours is an easily acceptable time to handle a matter this complex. If I for instance lost one of my credit cards and had to go through the process of having the account recovered and the card reissued, it sure would take longer than 10 hours before I could use my card again. Accounts, especially accounts with some recognition and privileges, ought to be like credit cards in this sense, since they can and do include information of a highly sensitive personal nature. As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, giving an impostor access to someone's account can easily lead to disclosure of all sorts of personal information the forum profile includes, and could actually lead to economic problems for the real owner of the account. I would far rather cope with 10 hours of identification hassle than the prospect of someone having unauthorized access to my forum account. So from that perspective, I'm sure we can all agree that Tosa's actions were in the best interest of ElmarkOFear. We would all do well to recognize that an admin's job is always to do the prudent thing, which is not always expedient nor simple, nor even what he would necessarily like to do as a friend.

OTOH I do understand how horribly frustrating it must've been for ElmarkOFear to be treated this way. From his perspective, this must look like unnecessary hassling by someone who should've known him well enough to easily tell it was him on the new account. Even so, it should be understood that Tosa was acting in his primary capacity as an admin of this site, which unfortunately must often take precedence over what he would like to do as a friend. IMO that's all that happened here, and as such you should try not to make it personal - it was a business dealing only. Don't let something so minor have such huge consequences.

Concerning the matters after the issue was closed, however, I think both parties handled the situation exceptionally poorly. On the one hand, running around badmouthing Tosa everywhere is simply childish, especially when his motivation was to be certain your identity was verified. It seems less than prudent to explode over a few hours of hassle. On the other, Tosa is rather bullheaded about saying anything on a personal level, instead just citing facts over and over. I understand that it's easy to take the high ground and point out how you feel you're "right," but ElmarkOFear has understandably taken many of these things as personally insulting. As such, I don't believe the situation can be effectively addressed with factual information: something more personalized is called for. Put aside being forum admin for a moment and try addressing ElmarkOFear as a human being. I really think if you guys try, you can bring this all to a close that doesn't have to involve all this animosity, and hopefully will get us all past this sticking point.

[ElmarkOFear]

I appreciate the sentiment Tibi and please disregard some of my "admin/mod/staff" comments from earlier posts. I was generalizing when there are but a few of whom I take issue with.

There is no need for any further drama, from myself or Tosa, since it is obvious to me there is little room here for those belonging to the new M2TW MP community.

Puzz, whom I had many an argument (in the old days) yet still respected for his knowledge of the original TW engine, had changed from the person I knew. He was always helpful to new MP players during the STW/MTW days and though lacking a since of humor (he always took himself and his discussions very seriously), was always around to help explain how things worked. A pillar of the community.

When I returned, I found a much different personality in Puzz. He apparently had finally reached a point where he had given up on CA (must have been during the RTW days when I had left the MP community). I came back to the .org and immediately found it to have changed from one in which the .org patrons worked with CA trying to get changes made to the MP side of the game, to one in which CA had abandoned due to a few individuals constantly feeling it necessary to bash both CA and the new game engine. There was no talking them into allowing M2TW discussions to proceed without interfering and turning every discussion into "How inferior M2 is to STW". To my surprise, Puzz was leading the way in this. He continues to this day, interfering in M2 discussions, bashing the new game (and also the people playing the new game), and shamelessly publicizing the Samura Wars MTW mod in every M2TW thread. I eventually tired of this bullying and decided someone needed to speak up. Unfortunately, I found my sarcastic wit was not welcomed, while others were allowed free reign to post as they please. I do hope Puzz can eventually get over his anger and at least allow others to post how much they enjoy the new game, without pointing out how horribly wrong they are.


It is a wonder, but throughout its existence the .org had some trying times. Many players left during a couple of the "purges" as they are referred to. However one thing remained constant: The .org remained a place of civil discussion about game issues with everyone's contribution being considered important. From my perspective, this is no longer the case. I do not see any discussions of importance concerning the new game, nor much concerning the old ones. There is a split in the community and the .org has taken the side of those who dislike the new engine and the way CA has treated them. All while a whole new MP community has sprung up around them. Ignoring this, nay . . being openly hostile to this new group, the .org is currently derided by the majority of the larger RTW/M2TW community. There were a few here who were supportive of the new M2 MP section, but unfortunately they were a minority, or at least had a minority say in what would be allowed.

I have a saying: "People create their own hell"

Its use appears quite appropriate here. The .org, through its own actions, has positioned itself as inconsequential concerning anything TW. Each and every time someone brings in some enthusiasm for the new game he is abused, dismissed and ends up leaving in frustration. I have seen it, again and again. If you talk to almost anyone in the TW community, you find they have nothing nice to say about the .org. Some of you are frustrated about this, but either you are unwilling to change yourself, or are unable to get the others to change. I think some cannot see how divisive and self-destructive their attitudes are, and unfortunately are taking everyone else down the same path. I do hope you eventually find a better outlet for your anger at CA and the past and can begin to openly welcome the much larger world of the new TW games.

The first step in the process needs to be the installation of a new admin. One who isn't biased and who is able to maintain a discreet distance when his friends are called out for their inappropriate behavior by other patrons. One who doesn't post private PMs.

The second step is to remove those moderators who feel it is appropriate behavior to send warning PMs cursing and name calling the patron in question when said patron points out the favoritism being shown to a select few. If one cannot keep their emotions in check when explaining why they feel the patron is wrong, they should not be a moderator . . . nor an admin.


Tibi: Trust me, this is the last drama you will see from me at the .org. :laugh4: I wish you, and those like you who are a bit more sensible, have success in bringing the .org back to a place where people like myself can find enjoyment bantering about the current game and/or reminiscing about old times without someone (especially an admin) entering and making disparaging comments or remarks which are inappropriate and/or unnecessary in a public discussion.

Take care and good luck. I will once again ask for my usernames to be removed from this forum. I think you will find quite a few who now would be more than willing to do so. :gathering:

BTW: I never had a username just "Elmo". That is an entirely different patron to whom I have spoken. He is not a troublemaker like myself. Also, I have never registered or used the name "pussycat" or was it"pussiecat" (the one Tosa mentioned in one of his posts here), so please do not delete that account since you would be punishing an innocent patron.

[Husar]

If you forget your password, well...you know...it wasn't really Tosa who forgot it...:sweatdrop:
And neither was it Tosa who changed his email adress...
And I like to live under the big oppression of the .org elite anyway, I'm a very submissive person and anyone who disagrees will be subdued, in that spirit, let me proclaim a wish:

:dancinglock:

[tibilicus]

I think what your all forgetting ehre there was two arguments.
Whislt yest it revolves around the pasword argument which both "partys" as such may have been in the wrong if you read the memory lane thread from a third party veiw Tosas responce was a bit un needed. Even if no harm was meant his comment towards the Ugly community could of come across rather rude and slightly derogative in a way. Tosa may or may have not meant this either way it is a matter of two opinions.
The move to make this a public event however was a bad one and I think well now know the out come.
At the end of the day its the .org vs one of its members, as seen repetadly before the out come is always the same.

Not a wise move.

[t1master]

sadly this is more entertaining than the discussion of mp tactics in the m2 forum.....:dizzy2:


:balloon2:

[Puzz3D]

When I returned, I found a much different personality in Puzz. He apparently had finally reached a point where he had given up on CA (must have been during the RTW days when I had left the MP community).
CA told us at the end of the RTW v1.2 beta that Total War was no longer intended for hardcore players. That's when I understood why the tactical model, mathematical model, network performance, sprite graphics, dynamic balance, static balance, battle interface, multiplayer options and foyer had all deteriorated and remain so. You don't work with a company that is moving in a direction opposite to what you want especially when they come right out and tell you that what you want is not what they want.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Anyone, old or new, with login or password problems should PM Tosa or I, or - failing that - email jim@jimcee.com (that's me). As soon as correlation can be made, the member will be on their way to posting goodness.

Well I hate that I cant pick my own pw here or can I. Anyway anytime I forget it I just reset it. Whats the problem? In fact my old PC got so messed up that I could not reset it it thus didnt post here for quite sometime. Finally out of frustration I sent a pm to Tosa and promtly recieved a new pw. What was so different here. Why couldnt Elmo simply reset his pw?

[Stig]

As far as I heard of Elmo, other forums, he has lost his old email adress.


But Elmo, as OAM said, why are you waisting time on this?

What's worse however is that this Tosa simply refuses to do an IP check, how easy is that. Whatever happens I can, and will, always vouch for Elmo.


Please advise ElmarkOFear? What do you want to be reset, what do you expect me to do?
Elmo send you those PM's ages ago, no need to dig them up, let at all post in public

[Duke John]

Well I hate that I cant pick my own pw here or can I.
Go to User CP (it's in the menu bar above) -> Edit Email, Password & Username and type in your new password.

[TosaInu]

Well I hate that I cant pick my own pw here or can I. Anyway anytime I forget it I just reset it. Whats the problem? In fact my old PC got so messed up that I could not reset it it thus didnt post here for quite sometime. Finally out of frustration I sent a pm to Tosa and promtly recieved a new pw. What was so different here. Why couldnt Elmo simply reset his pw?

Hello Gawain of Orkeny,

Of course you can pick your own password over here UserCP (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/profile.php?do=editpassword)

I'm very sorry: I did not find the PM, however I recall a recent request.
A mailbox check: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2006 11:47:05 -0700 (PDT).

Here's the reply:

Hello Gawain of Orkeny,

Thank you for keeping the e-mail in your profile up to date: makes it a lot easier.

A new password: XXXXXXXX

Please mail me back if you still experience problems.

Ja mata
TosaInu

The up to date e-mail did it in this case. The e-mail address is the first lifeline. Not bulletproof, as one could lose both.

Another case that will yield very fast results is if you have the login stored in your cache, but forgot what it was. Since you have direct access to the account you can simply sent me a PM. Example: the account Gawain of Orkeny sends me a PM and requests a password or other account update for the account Gawain of Orkeny. 1Unless I have the feeling that something odd is going on (a weird example: Gawain of Orkeny just made a series of out of character posts which makes me wonder whether his account is hacked and the hacker wanting to hijack it permanently) I'll update instantly.

If you lose access to your account, and create a new one, say Gaw2, and use that to PM me, then there's no link that proves Gaw2 and Gawain of Orkeny are accounts from the same person.

The IP is a very thin line, they either don't match or are dynamic and thus used by many other people. There are cases were they help and sometimes prove, but in most cases they do not.
Gaw2 could however say, hello I'm Gawain of Orkeny, I lost my password, the password reminder doesn't work, though the e-mail is up to date. Send a new password to the e-mail in the Gawain of Orkeny profile. Again (1) this would yield a direct update.

If this can't be done, there are a load of other options. I'm the one who will be blamed when an account goes into the wrong hands (whether I'm to be blamed or not). So, I want to feel comfortable. I think the longest private verification proces took almost a week (iirc because the scheduling for alternative verification involved people from two sides of the globe).

The account UglyElmo2 is like Gaw2 in the example and could not provide direct solid proof. So, it had to be verified by other means. In this case a message to Obake. Obake was not on ICQ/MSN at the time(s) I checked (different timezones, so slim chance), thus I sent an e-mail to Obake.

[Geoffrey S]

You don't work with a company that is moving in a direction opposite to what you want especially when they come right out and tell you that what you want is not what they want.
Which is exactly what ElmarkOfFear was saying, from the other side of the fence. Who is moving away from who, exactly?

[barocca]

i am loving the conspiracy theories here,
some people are taking their RPG way too seriously,
all the pertinent questions in this thread have been answered in full.

to all who intend to carry on the silliness...
when the next saucer lands, i'll let you know...
B.

[guyfawkes5]

Let me correct Puzz's post for him:

"CA told us at the end of the RTW v1.2 beta that Total War was no longer intended for hardcore players. That's when I understood why the tactical model, mathematical model, network performance, sprite graphics, dynamic balance, static balance, battle interface, multiplayer options and foyer had all deteriorated and remain so. You don't work with a company that is moving in a direction opposite to what you want especially when they come right out and tell you that what you want is not what they want so you stick around anyway and post in the game's repsective forums, endlessly and tirelessly reminding everyone of the game's inferiority to previous titles in spite of not owning the actual game itself and the objections of all surrounding posters who wish to add to the forums consructively. Please ignore the irony in constantly discussing and criticising a game that I have completely disowned and will, by my own admission, never improve."

[Dutch_guy]

I believe this thread should have died ages ago. Misunderstandings happen, especially at anonymous internet boards. This doesn't make it more bearable for both member and admin when it happens, but is simply does.


:balloon2:

[tibilicus]

Agreeed with Barocca and Dutch guy. If Puzz has an issue ( normally one with CA which in no way is relavent to this topic) an appropiate thread should be made some where else not here.

[Mikeus Caesar]

http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/31/Drama.jpg

[CBR]

Whatever happens I can, and will, always vouch for Elmo.
This really has nothing to do with Elmo losing his pw. His sarcastic wit is unfortunately surpassed by his inability to keep his grudges and paranoia under control. It only takes a small spark and off he goes.

tibilicus: if you asked me a few years back I would most likely have said the same. But after nearly 5 years in this community I have seen how some members have a highly developed imagination. Yes Im sure Tosa could have done some thing differently, but the more some things are kept hidden the more it just fuels the imagination of certain people and their trusty followers.

Oh yes the dirty laundry is not a pretty sight, but at least we can see where and how dirty it really is and maybe, with a bit of luck, we can move on.

And come on please. One guy ruins it for everyone?? If you dont like Yuuki's posts then don't read/respond to them or better yet put him him on ignore list. I remember some STW vets complaining on and on about MTW but that somehow did not make people go away. Some people need to grow a backbone.

This is now the third, or is it the fourth time you have asked for your account to be deleted. It's not going to be deleted. Staying or leaving is completely up to you. And if you wonder why moderators are after you then maybe you should recheck your posts for that sarcastic wit of yours. Maybe there is no big conspiracy...

Oh BTW Elmo. You seem to have forgotten the MP community was split 4 years ago. The CA dev (LongJohn) who did participate in MP discussions here on Org, left CA before RTW came out. But I know its easier to focus your frustration on Yuuki as he afterall was the one ruining your precious handgunners in MTW right?

Talk about drama and creating his own hell... :inquisitive:


CBR

[tibilicus]

I understand your points CBR, It must be clear im on no ones side and am mealy trying to give credit to both cases.

Im sure both party's are right in there eyes and it's Elmo vs pretty much most of the staff which leaves his fate pretty certain.

There for once again I care to ask. This topic is still open because..

[Stig]

This topic is still open because..
Moving your mouse more than 2 cm so that you can click locked is very tiring you know :bounce:

[t1master]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63268

two sets of standards...

[CBR]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63268

two sets of standards...
Where is the problem? That someone actually managed to send PM's to Tosa and get their accounts back without a drama?


CBR

[Papewaio]

At least with Shannon Doherty you had something perky to look at. This is so '80's 90210 crossed with Melrose Place. :inquisitive: :laugh4:

[KukriKhan]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63268

two sets of standards...

Hello t1master. If you notice the dates on those posts, you'll see that verifying FearofNC's account details took more than a day - longer than it took to verify ElmarOFear's. The same procedure was used, due to lost p/w's, emails & multiple accounts. So: one set of standards.

[Yun Dog]

sadly this is more entertaining than the discussion of mp tactics in the m2 forum.....:dizzy2:


:balloon2:

:laugh4: thats the truth of it

I remember that whole lost password day, I remember thinking "chill out dude" how bad do you need to get on the forum, and then the big drama begins... and Im thinking "wtf". Clearly theres some past hurts that have not healed here, which after all this time. No wonder the community fractured, people cant get past their egos to log on and play the game. Are we still talking about a computer game forum?

As far as peoples conspiring against others, I mean if people are going to be that petty then pfft - be my guest

As far as the MP community abandoning the org (what all 5 of them!!) sorry bad joke.. from what I saw of the silent assasins part of the community (most of whom are on my ignore list).. if thats the 'community' then better off without them, at least until they can learn to communicate without profanity in written english as mature adults. So if one guy had scared those guys away, good on him *pat on the back*. As far as other abandoning this site, please step back and look at how massive and encompassing the org has become. There are always going to be negative nellies, but I do agree that people should at least own the title and have played MP before commenting (pos or neg) in the M2TWMP forum.

If the 'community' is going to have a chance to grow into something meaniful, then the 'veterans' need to start showing some maturity and leadership and put these past grudges in the past, where they belong, and start working together. :shame:

[Fenix7]

Drama you say? And childish? What word ''childish'' means to you? To each something different. To someone else word ''childish'' might or could refer to people who came up with it. One of the most common affections of which people suffer is ignorance.

Genesis of Policy
"Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string from the ceiling and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with ice-cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the monkeys are sprayed with ice-cold water.

Pretty soon, when yet another monkey can't resist trying to climb the stairs, all the other monkeys aggressively try to prevent it. Now, turn off the cold water, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and immediately wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. He tries again and is attacked again. He realizes that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer too, takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked by all. Two of the four monkeys that beat him up have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been around here!

Wasn't it the late Bruce Lee who said, "What would it be like if we only ever did what our critics would have us listen to or believe?"

[t1master]

i was more on about hector's pw retrieval in less than one day.... ;)

it's not really important however.

[TosaInu]

Hello t1master,


Contact Tosa.

:bow:


:jumping: Thanks tosa

A. I haven't done anything. That's not true I sent an e-mail to fearofhector about the old account: 'Did you lose the password'. It's only today that I see he already has the account :glasses: Maybe he recalled his password?
B. ElmarkOFear could have his password within a day too.
C. Even after the first public publication I sent a private PM to ElmarkOFear


Hello ElmarkOFear,

I've said that Obakes word would do it and e-mailed him using the contact I have.

Since you activated this now, I can reset e-mail and then you can either reset the password yourself or have me do it. I can also send details to UglyElmo2.

No reply to that. Why ElmarkOFear?

[Stig]

Stop playing Tosa, you know Elmo has been banned

[TosaInu]

Hello Stig,

Banned where and by who?

[Stig]

I'll PM

[CBR]

Stop playing Tosa, you know Elmo has been banned
His status on Org has not changed since he made his last post here.


CBR

[Puzz3D]

Agreeed with Barocca and Dutch guy. If Puzz has an issue ( normally one with CA which in no way is relavent to this topic) an appropiate thread should be made some where else not here.
My post was a response to remarks made about me in this thread. It's not my fault the that the multiplayer game has deteriorated. It was Creative Assembly who changed direction.

[guyfawkes5]

Puzz, I don't think you quite understand the complaints that people are making...

But as Tib said, that's a topic for another day.

[t1master]

like i said, it's really of no real importance. the last decent mp discussion about anything other than the axegrinder's agenda on this forum has been well over three years.

ban elmo, don't, do what ever....

tact of the point elmo's trying to make is....the mp crowd for whatever reason has jumped this ship a long time ago. you are fighting over a leaking life boat, or a cage full of monkeys,* what ever metaphor illuminates it for you. there is no talk of taktricks, no discussion of what a good army is, etc etc. only the same rehashed rubbish.

anyhoo... to quote the immortal dark helmet.



http://www.thatsstupid.net/pie/images/Dark_Helmet.jpg


keep firing http://www.duxdelux.co.uk/modules/Forums/images/smiles/emot11.gif holes



*an uglygoat liberal paraphrase, don't ask for a citation... :clown:

edit edit: was asked to remove a naughty word..... ;)

[barocca]

Agreeed with Barocca and Dutch guy. If Puzz has an issue ( normally one with CA which in no way is relavent to this topic) an appropiate thread should be made some where else not here.
Dont drag me into THAT issue,

my issue with all of you is all to do with Elmo complaining about his account,
an issue that was resolved over a year ago.
Resolved.
Dead.
Gone.
- why are you all fighting over it?
like worrying a dead bone...

Dont try to drag me into the MP is dead/is thriving issue.
B.

[t1master]

:balloon2:

[Yun Dog]

Drama you say? And childish? What word ''childish'' means to you? To each something different. To someone else word ''childish'' might or could refer to people who came up with it. One of the most common affections of which people suffer is ignorance.

Genesis of Policy
"Start with a cage containing five monkeys. Inside the cage, hang a banana on a string from the ceiling and place a set of stairs under it. Before long, a monkey will go to the stairs and start to climb towards the banana. As soon as he touches the stairs, spray all of the monkeys with ice-cold water. After a while, another monkey makes an attempt with the same result - all the monkeys are sprayed with ice-cold water.

Pretty soon, when yet another monkey can't resist trying to climb the stairs, all the other monkeys aggressively try to prevent it. Now, turn off the cold water, remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one. The new monkey sees the banana and immediately wants to climb the stairs. To his surprise and horror, all of the other monkeys attack him. He tries again and is attacked again. He realizes that if he tries to climb the stairs, he will be assaulted.

Next, remove another of the original five monkeys and replace it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer too, takes part in the punishment with enthusiasm. Again, replace a third original monkey with a new one. The new one makes it to the stairs and is attacked by all. Two of the four monkeys that beat him up have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs, or why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey.

Why not? Because as far as they know that's the way it's always been around here!

Wasn't it the late Bruce Lee who said, "What would it be like if we only ever did what our critics would have us listen to or believe?"


Sooooo.... ermmm... we are the angry conditioned monkeys and Elmo is the monkey climbing the stairs... and Tosa is the ???... bananna..:dizzy2:

No the bananna is GOD and the stairs are the stairway to heaven, the bananna is sacred and pure and must NOT be touched. All praise the holy bananna. Furthermore... Im telling you now! that if this :daisy: monkey cant touch the bananna then no :daisy: monkey is touching the :daisy: bananna. You cant just have any 'monkey come lately' touching the bananna, then all the monkeys will be touching their banannas !!!! and what have you got then... ANARCHY... and a whole cage full of monkeys touching their banannas and needing ice cold showers.

So if any of you :daisy: monkeys is thinking of touching their :daisy: banannas ... :daisy: go and have a ice cold shower.... and STOP IT OR YOU'll GO BLIND!!!


well that cleared that up :laugh4:

[TosaInu]

Hello ElmarkOFear,

I've said that Obakes word would do it and e-mailed him using the contact I have.

Since you activated this now, I can reset e-mail and then you can either reset the password yourself or have me do it. I can also send details to UglyElmo2.

No reply to that. Why ElmarkOFear?

[Stig]

Tosa, stop playing

Elmo ain't coming here anymore ... ever

[Mithrandir]

http://pr0n.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/3/31/Drama.jpg

Can we make a smiley out of that one?

[Duke John]

Of course. I needed a break anyway :grin: And considering how often internet drama occurs it will be a much needed smiley anyway :wink:

[guyfawkes5]

Seeing as Elmo isn't coming back, and the thread is becoming victim to rather ironic intervention ("Look how pathetic those who actually care about the 'drama' are... yet we are simultaneously demonstrating we care by interjecting the thread with messages saying 'we don't care'?"), perhaps a final closure is in order?

Especially given that proceedings are now likely to become more railroaded than they already are, especially with Tosa's repeated challenges to a poster he has already been told isn't listening.

Hey guess what guys! Drama over. :no:

:clown:

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

Tosa, stop playing

Elmo ain't coming here anymore ... ever



awww,how sad. What's you point Stig?

[Stig]

Why did you need to revive this?

Not happy because you lost a discussion in the MP forum and we were right?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Why is this thread even still open. Do we all enjoy destroying each other. Personally this whole thing disgusts me and makes us all look bad. Just my 2 cents. The back room is more civil.

[Swoosh So]

:dizzy2: anyone know elmos active email btw would be nice to catch up ?

[Swoosh So]

oh and btw how dare you guys have such drama without anyone emailing me to join in!


Quote~

CHAPTER 2: A Sheep in Wolves’ Clothing

Traveling through the steppes in search of fame and fortune, Obake and Elmo happen upon a group of men. These warriors, ranging in age from 15 to 40, wear a wolf head insignia on their shields. They all are “howling” loudly.

“What is that awful noise?” Elmo asks Obake.

“It’s either, a war cry, ritual greeting or mating chant.”

The warriors, having spotted the two, turn their horses and gallop off into the distance.

“Seems they are easily frightened.”

“Have you looked in the mirror lately Elmo? Your face would scare a pack of wild dogs away.”

“Well if I had a dog that had a face like yours, I would shave its butt and teach it to walk backwards!”

“Yeah, well last time I saw a head like yours, I shook it off and put it back in my pants.”

“Wait a minute Obake, aren’t we supposed to be identical twins?”

“Oh, you’re right! You handsome devil you.”

“Why thank you my most princely looking sibling.”

Continuing on, in this manner for several minutes, the two were unaware of the fact that they were no longer alone.

“Don’t look now Elmo, but our friends have returned.”

“HOOoOOoooOOOOOOwl!”

“I sure hope you were wrong about the mating chant.” Elmo whispers, noticing a distinct lack of females amongst the warriors.

The nearest warrior, dismounts from his large horse with ease and approaches the two of them.

“What are you doing trespassing in the land of the Great Khan?”

“The Great Can?” Obake asks, giving the warrior a puzzled look.

“No! The Great Khan!”

“Whatever. We are traveling in search of adventure, fame, and fortune.”

“Well, we gotta go now, see you later, nice meeting you.” says Elmo grabbing Obake’s arm and walking quickly away from the warriors.

‘Thud!” An arrow pierces the tree right next to Elmo’s head.

“Ok, maybe we can stay for just a little bit longer.” says Elmo, feeling his right ear to make sure it was still attached.

“You must wait here until the Great Khan arrives to decide your fate.”

“The Great Corn?” Obake asks, giving the warrior a puzzled look.

“No! The Great Khan!” shouts the warrior, looking as if he could kill the two of them with his bare hands.

“Whatever. How long we gotta wait?”

“For as long as it takes the Great Khan to get here.”

“The Great Con?” Obake asks, giving the warrior a puzzled look.

“Yes! The Great Con. No wait! The Great Khan!” The warrior, fury in his eyes, lunges at the two of them, but several warriors stop him quickly and remind him of the fate of the last battle leader who took it upon himself to kill the prisoners before the Great Khan arrived.

“Why isn’t the Great Coon riding at the front of the pack?” asks Obake.

“That’s Great Khan!” screams the warrior getting very red in the face.

“Well, his Great War Horse is a . . uh . . . still a young colt. Yeah, that’s it, a young colt!” says a smallish warrior smiling to the rest as if he had said something brilliant.

Suddenly, the warriors begin to stir and murmur amongst themselves.

“Ah! The Great Khan arrives!”

“The Great …” Elmo puts his hand over Obake’s mouth to stop him from finishing his question.

The crowd parts and before them appears an old man wearing a large grey wolf head, riding an extremely tiny horse. Slowly, they make their way towards Elmo and Obake. The Great Khan’s feet making deep furrows in the soil as they drag the ground on both sides of the poor little beast.

“I am the Great Khan. Who is it that trespasses on my land?”

“I am Obake and this is my younger brother Elmo.”

“Younger brother? By two seconds! You weaseling little *@#%!” shouts Elmo glaring at Obake.

“Yes my younger brother! You half-pint, evil, little #@$%!”

“Enough! Quiet!” booms the Great Khan.

At these words, Obake and Elmo stop arguing, but obviously still fume over who is the eldest.

“I am the Great Khan, but you may have heard tale of me as Magyarkhan.” says Magyar looking at both men closely.

“Nope, sorry. Never heard of you.” says Elmo.

“Aren’t you that explorer guy?” asks Obake.

“No! That’s Magellin!”

“How ‘bout that guy who invented the washing tub?”

“No! That’s Maytag!”

“What about the guy who . . .”

“Enough! Shouts the great Khan. “You will answer my questions or die a horrible death!”

“Shoot!” says Elmo.

“Swoosh!” An arrow narrowly misses Elmo’s nose as it lunges into the same tree, just inches away from the first one.

“I meant “shoot” as in; “Go ahead and ask us your question” not “shoot” as in; “Go ahead and shoot me!” says Elmo wiping at the beads of sweat now forming on his brow.

“Sorry.” says the only female warrior, with a mischievous twinkle in her eyes.

“You must forgive Swoosh. She is impetuous and hot tempered, when angered, as well as one of our finest archers.” Says Magyar, looking at her admiringly.

“We must be on our way soon Mr. Magpie, could you please hurry up?” Obake says.

“That’s Magyarkhan!” shouts Magyar, visibly calming himself by stroking his little pony’s silky brown mane.

He continues; “I noticed you admiring my brave War Horse as I approached. He is a fine beast, is he not?”

“He is very nice indeed.” says Elmo.

“Kind of puny for a war horse, don’t you think?” asks Obake, eyeing the pony dubiously.

A sudden intake of breath is heard coming from the surrounding crowd of warriors.

The Great Khan, his left eye twitching slightly, stiffens himself in the saddle. Since his feet are already touching the ground, this raises him off the little pony’s back by about 6 inches. The pony, relieved to be unburdened, begins to walk slowly out from between the Khan’s legs. Magyar, pulling hard on the pony’s reigns, sits back down quickly and states in his most offended voice; “He is just a mere pony and has a lot of growing yet to do. He will one day be the finest war horse in Europe .”

“Where did you find such a powerful and awesome creature such as this one Oh Great Khan?” says Elmo, stepping hard on Obake’s foot to keep him from speaking again.

“I was offered him by a wealthy merchant in exchange for sparing his caravan from destruction at my brave warriors’ hands.” Magyar says; apparently pleased to be able to brag on his clan’s fighting abilities yet again.

“You are looking at a very rare breed of war horse. The merchant told me he is a Steppe-land pony, bred for centuries for size, speed and ferocity.”

At the word “ferocity” the Khan looks down aghast to see his little pony licking Elmo’s hands and whinnying happily.

Elmo looks up into the dead looking eyes of the Great Khan and quickly puts his hands in his pockets to keep them out of reach of the “ferocious” pony’s searching pink tongue.

“How long ago did you receive this rare gift.” Elmo asks, hoping to allay the Khan’s wrath.

“A mere 3 years ago, but it seems as if it was yesterday.”

“It looks like it was yesterday too, by the size of this horse.” Laughs Obake.

Elmo kicks Obake hard once again, and says loudly; “Obake do you not know anything about rare and wonderful horses? The extremely rare ones grow much more slowly than regular horses. This one must be rare indeed!”

Looking around at the warriors behind Magyar, Elmo and Obake notice they are looking up into the sky, and whistling, as if they were trying not to hear the conversation. Almost as if the subject of the horse made them very uncomfortable.

“We both think your horse is magnificent. We should be so lucky to ever be near a horse half as noble and grand as yours.” continues Elmo.

“Normally I subject trespassers to the “Death of a Thousand Cuts.” says the Khan menacingly.

Smiling suddenly, he says; “Since you two obviously recognize a good steed when you see one, I will let you continue on your journey, but first you must partake of a supper fit for the Mighty Khan!”

The Kahn puts his full weight back on the pony’s back, and it slowly moves off to where the men must be camped for the evening.

“You are lucky the Great Khan is in a good mood.” says one warrior as he rides by.

“Try not to get lost.”

“Don’t worry” Obake laughs. “We got these two furrows in the ground which the Great Cane has so obligingly left for us to follow.”

Elmo grabs the warrior that first approached them and asks; “Doesn’t the Khan realize his noble steed is not a Steppe-land pony but a Shetland pony?”

The warrior, looking around quickly for anyone who might be listening, whispers; “It does not matter if he did. The Great Khan cannot admit he was duped by a mere merchant! If you value your life, you will speak not of this to anyone, especially the Great Khan.”

An hour later, the sun setting over the mountains in the distance, Obake and Elmo are sitting around a huge campfire eating some very odd type of roasted meat.

“What is this?” asks Obake through a mouthful of meat.

“That is the succulent hindquarters of a mountain goat! Delicious is it not?” says the Khan.

Trying not to gag, Obake slowly, painfully swallows the chunk of goat meat and takes a big drag on his stein of beer.

“Um, yes . . very tasty.” says Obake.

“Now I would like you to meet some of the members of our clan. Fast cub, come over here and introduce yourself.” says the Khan, pointing at a young lad standing in the shadows just outside their range of sight.

Slowly, the boy approaches the two men and introduces himself.

“Why do they call you Fast cub?” asks Elmo.

“Shall I get you another drink of ale from the barrel down by the wagon?” the boy says taking Elmo’s stein.

“Of course, thank you very much.”

“Why do they call him Fa . .?” says Elmo turning to the Great Khan to ask his question, but realizing a full stein of ale had been placed in his hand.

“Wow that IS fast!” Elmo exclaims, looking at the smiling boy in amazement.

“This is Swoosh, whom you met earlier.” The Khan waves the female warrior forward to meet them.

Obake asks; “And why do they call you Swoo . . .”

“SWOOSH!” An arrow knocks the stein out of his hands before he can finish.

“Never mind: I think I know now.” says Obake nervously.

Swoosh gives him an innocent look and walks away silently.

“Now I would like you to meet my most trusted and knowledgeable warrior: Kocmoc!” bellows the Great Khan.

A strong, serious looking warrior approaches them and shakes both of their hands firmly.

“How does one get a name like Kocmoc? Elmo asks.

“It is a long story.” says Kocmoc.

“But one I will share with you, since Kocmoc is too shy to speak of it.” laughs the Khan, looking at the now blushing Kocmoc.

The Story Of How Kocmoc Got His Name (Click Here.)

“That my friends . .”, says Magyar, bowing to Kocmoc. “ . .Is how Kocmoc received his name.”

Elmo and Obake look at each other and then at Kocmoc, who turns and walks away, still blushing.

A sudden loud barking, snarling noise is heard coming from the bushes.

“What is that?” asks Obake.

“Do not be alarmed, it is just our newest member of the wolf clan. His bark is way worse than his bite I assure you.”

Out of the bushes, appears an old mangy dog, growling at Elmo and Obake, baring his toothless gums at them as he gets near.

“This is Monsta. He was leader of the Rage clan, until he started losing his teeth. He came to us for protection.” says the Great Khan, patting the dog affectionately as it licks his boots.

“But I thought dogs were supposed to be loyal.” says Obake, looking at the pitiful mutt.

“Dogs are loyal to their masters only and once this little sheep realized who his real masters were, he left the flock and came begging the wolves to take him in.”

“I see.” says Elmo, throwing a large bone near Monsta’s feet.

Monsta looks at Elmo, and with his tongue hanging out and tail wagging, he grabs the bone and happily slinks off into the dark recesses of the bush he crawled out of.

The Great Khan, yawns and sleepily says; “Enough festivities for one night. You have only met a few of our members, but I am sure you will run into us many more times as you journey to your destiny. Goodnight.”

The Great Khan retreats to his tent for the night and Obake and Elmo decide it would be prudent to leave immediately before they too became sheep in wolves' clothing. As they leave, Elmo gives the Great Khan’s little Shetland pony a few sugar cubes which it eats happily.

"I think I will call you 'Pookey'." says Elmo.

"Pookey the War Horse!" laughs Obake.

The two brothers walk off into the darkness, looking forward to their next adventure.

end quote

hehe still makes me giggle

[The Stranger]

:laugh4: This thread is hilarious!!!

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

:laugh4: This thread is hilarious!!!

Welcome to the twisted world of MP!

you still need to do that 1v1 with me Stranger :yes: . you say you never lose on RTW, and that I find funny :laugh4:

[Caius]

Is this resolved?

[guyfawkes5]

Not really, just over.

[The Stranger]

Welcome to the twisted world of MP!

you still need to do that 1v1 with me Stranger :yes: . you say you never lose on RTW, and that I find funny :laugh4:

name your time and place baby! :laugh4:

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

RTW or MTW2, On a Saturday, but a weekday will work of course. in the early afternoon or late evening is great :-)

[The Stranger]

got a deal, you have to wait for a week though, till my friend who has my copy comes home from holidays... ill contact you asoon as he is home ;) so you have a week to prepare for a defeat.

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

got a deal, you have to wait for a week though, till my friend who has my copy comes home from holidays... ill contact you asoon as he is home ;) so you have a week to prepare for a defeat.


lol I doubt I'm going to lose. Make it a Best out of 3 (or 5, up to you), since anyone can win 1 game and that it.

[The Stranger]

3 is sufficient, you may host.

[Mithrandir]

How about using PM to arrange an appointment...

[naut]

Why is this thread even still open. Do we all enjoy destroying each other. Personally this whole thing disgusts me and makes us all look bad. Just my 2 cents. The back room is more civil.
Quoted For Truth.