A Cultural Travesty is About To Happen!

[Big_John]

Recently, Iran has constructed the Sivand Dam in the Tang-e-Bolaghi gorge. This dam will flood the gorge and consequently destroy or damage some of the most important arcaeological sites in the world, inculding the tomb of the founder of the Achaemenid dynasty, Cyrus the Great.

It doesn't look good for these ancient sites, but please sign this petition (http://www.savepasargad.com/european_languages.htm) to possibly cause the Iranian Energy Ministry to delay the operation of the dam and give archaeologists more time to salvage the sites. Let them know that we care about the world's history and cultural heritage!
:knight:


links:
http://www.cyrusgreat.com/content/view/15/2/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,12858,1378845,00.html

edit: fixed link, thanks mouza

[Dayve]

We can't get them to stop enriching uranium even though they know the consequences could be dire, in a worst case scenario... So i doubt we'll get them to do this. I'll sign it anywho though.

Well i would if the link you gave worked. =P

[Mouzafphaerre]

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Copy the link and remove the gorge from its beginning. (You too BJ ~;))
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[Big_John]

fixed :thumbsup:

[Mouzafphaerre]

fixed :thumbsup:
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~:thumb:
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[Dayve]

Signed. ~D

[PSYCHO V]

Signed ~:)

[Red_Russian13]

I will agree. This will be a tragedy. But...

It's never going to happen. You might get some other nations to back down by a massive online petition, but not places like Iran. Remember a few years ago the Taliban destroyed some ancient Buddhist (or Hindu?) statues, despite international pleas. They just dont' care as we do. When it comes to modernization needs, these nations (as will most) will simply do what they think they need to.

Sorry to be a realist here.

[QwertyMIDX]

We all know there is almost no chance of this stopping anything, but we might as well sign, takes all of 1 minute.

Anyway, recent reports seem to indict that his Tomb might actually survive, though we won't know until the flooding is complete.

[Salazar]

I signed as well

I must say i also don't think it will do much, anyway i also told some other people to sign as well.
Btw: As i understood it's not against the Dam itself (which,i think is already built), its only about getting more time for the Archeologists.

[mediobogdum]

Signed.

[Moinllieon]

Yes, sign this petition and tell those poor Iranians who hoped to benefit from the water and electricity and numerous other benefits from this project where they can stick their hopes for improving their life. Because, darn it, we have decided for them that some of those sites are more important to them than their livelihood. Just trust us, we know better than they do what's good for them. :juggle2:

[Big_John]

so, i take it you've signed too, Moinllieon? awesome, thanks! ~:)

[Moinllieon]

Eh, I've said my peace, you can take it however you want to take it. :2thumbsup:

[Warlord 11]

Well, it is not about not building the dam, it is about delaying it a bit.

I think.

[King of the dutch]

Moinllien brings up an interesting point though. I had already signed...but still... he's sorta right:dizzy2:

[PSYCHO V]

Yes, sign this petition and tell those poor Iranians who hoped to benefit .. improving their life. Because, darn it, we have decided for them that some of those sites are more important to them than their livelihood. Just trust us, we know better than they do what's good for them. :juggle2:


~:) Easy there mate .. as stated previously it wont hurt the “poor Iranians” to wait for a little longer. In fact, the “poor Iranians” would be better off if the government spent less on it’s armed forces and more on social services, education and setting up a free market economy.

With regards to the dam, I personally think the Iranian government have got it all wrong anyways…. they wouldn’t need it if they could just find a way to harness the President’s aura (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/printFriendly/0,,1-524-1986052-524,00.html) or somehow linked up some device to his spinning head every time he went into his “need to nuke Israel” speech. ~;p

It’s always the little bloke on the street that pays for the big dreams and grand schemes.

my2bob

[Yun Dog]

Is this really the place for this thread... shouldnt this be in the back room

and if were offering opinions, I dont think any country should be dictating to any other country what it should or shouldnt be doing - its for the people of that country to determine for themselves

edit: I find it very distasteful to listen to a whole lot of people who've never had to want for anything, hand down decrees about what other people shouldnt do - we had our shot raping the land of all its wealth, poluting all our air and rivers, and wiped out hundreds of other species and are continuing to do so - and destroyed plenty of historical monuments ourselves - lets not even start with the english plundering of egypt - its ok for us to do it - but dont anyone else no that would be morally reprehensible *inset sarcasm*
my 5c

[Big_John]

Is this really the place for this thread... shouldnt this be in the back roomthis is simply a thread asking for people to sign a petition.

people, if you don't want to sign it, simply don't. but please take any excessive political discussion about the issue to the backroom (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=19). thanks. :thumbsup:

[Yun Dog]

this is simply a thread asking for people to sign a petition.

people, if you don't want to sign it, simply don't. but please take any excessive political discussion about the issue to the backroom (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=19). thanks. :thumbsup:

a petition that asks people to subscibe to a set of political beliefs

and has nothing to do with EB

[Wardo]

The pillage of Egypt in Britain doesn't belong to the British nor to Egyptians, it belongs to mankind, likewise, relics in Iran don't belong to Iranians or Australians, it also belongs to mankind, these are things built by people and civilizations long gone from this land, it would be extremely good for Rome to screw with Roman relics and build a complex subway network, destroying everything in its path, but Romans accept to make a sacrifice to preserve a treasure that is worth more than "political beliefs" or national borders.

[Chester]

It's important for people to slow down and realize that some things are sacred. We should take care of our past instead of building over it. New dams, new this, new that. All we're doing is building an even more unsustainable society to accomodate billions more in an already over burdened planet.

Iranian historical sites, the slow demise of the egpytian pyramids due to tourists, the amazon rainforest, fish supply, plankton etc... We're killing all of it. :skull:

[mediobogdum]

a petition that asks people to subscibe to a set of political beliefs

and has nothing to do with EB

How sad that concern for the legacy of Mankind is considered political by some. The worst thing about politics is its its woeful short sightedness. People from all over the world (not just one country) are concerned about the long term damage to a heritage that belongs to all of us and all of us who arent even here yet. If anything thats as apolitical as you can get.
Doesnt seem all that inappropriate to post something like that in a forum dedicated to a game which celebrates that heritage. Just one guys opinion.

[The Persian Cataphract]

I've followed this dam construction for nearly three years and all I can say that it is a cultural travesty for Iran. Anyone with a basic knowledge of the Iranian environmental geography knows that there are far more ideal places to build a dam (They will have to irrigate water through a long distance considering that the area is remote from lakes or even rivers), and not in the Tangeh-Bolangi valley where the bulk of Iranian archaeological treasures are located.

Iran is one of the world's most influential oil producers in the world, formerly known as the 4th country with the most oil reserves (Crude oil), and thus currently does not need nuclear power or a dam (Well, considering the location itself and the geographical complications, you just have to hand it to the Islamists and their pathological stupidity). It can efficiently sustain on oil for several decades. This isn't about "poor Iranians" (I'm Iranian myself) or some reform in energy policies. Considering how the Islamic regime has sustained for nearly three decades without any social, cultural or democratic progress, as well as the unemployment rates have passed the 30% mark of the census, the drug smuggling coming from everywhere and the rampant prostitution, one really has to wonder if the Islamists just have a poor sense for administration or if they just want to spoonfeed more of the Islamic ideals upon the already fed up Iranian people.

The truth is that this is just the continuation of the cultural genocide Ayatollah Khomeini commenced when the Islamic revolution ended in Iran 1979. He had sent bulldozers to tear down the Persepolis complex. Now this fleabag of a "president", Ahmadinejad, the prostitute monkey of Tehran wants to destroy the legacy of a man who practically founded Êrân and brought it to greatness. This man stood for all the good qualities that defined a true Iranian. He is our founding father, and the clay cylinder that he passed on to his children is the Iranian code of honour. His legacy is the last beacon of hope for all the Iranian patriots who wishes to see a democratic Iran before they die. Me included.

Jeez, I can't believe some of the replies I see here. This is a direct insult towards the Zoroastrians of Iran who have sustained in silence, blood and misery for the latest 1400 years. To hell with all those "Iranians" who support this construction. They would thus be supporting the Islamic regime and that is not acceptable. It would be a spit right at the faces of all the patriots. What legacy is there left from the Achaemenians, Parthians and Sassanids? All three are practically the victims of history, all of them subject to be perceived from the eyes of Iran's greatest historical enemies. Who are these fleabag mullahs to decide what to wipe out from history?

I've signed that petition including more organizations who have spoken out against this disaster. Amongst them the Iranian Heritage Foundation and CAIS-SOAS.

[Modestus]

Though I agree with the sentiments of the Big John the destruction of historically important sites is appalling I am always weary of signing petitions on the internet I looked at some of the links, some of the groups appear to have political agendas more about their opposition to Iran then just archaeology, the link to the Constitution of the Committee does not work or the covering letter? And from the site Cyrus the great

A section: What many people do not realize in reading Isaiah 44:28ff is that this heathen ruler was named by the prophet long before the monarch was even born. Isaiah prophesied in the reigns of Uzziah, Jotham, Ahaz, and Hezekiah (1:1). His ministry thus occurred in the latter portion of the 8th century B.C. (ca. 740-701 B.C.). This was some one hundred fifty years before Cyrus came to the throne!
Incredible declarations of this nature have led critics (who reject the possibility of predictive prophecy) to suggest that these portions of the book of Isaiah were added much later ? after the fact, as it were. A popular reference work states:

Predictive prophecy? sounds like a born again Christian historian dangerous people I could be just paranoid we all should be careful though.

[Salazar]

I suppose that this Part has been written after cyrus, the whole bible has been changed many many times so that wouldnt be any kind of surprise.

Concerning the Discussion about the Iranian Government: The west-friendly Shah was at least as bad as the islamic regime, afaik, the islamic government at least distributed it's ressources a bit more equal than the Shah did.
And a free market also isn't exactly the solution to all problems, pure communism also doesn't work,so it has to be something in between the two.
Anyway i think they could and should delay this a bit, to save at least a bit of these artifacts. Even though i understand the overall need of such projects.
On Nuclear stuff, i must say that the thought that people like putin or Bush, or also some people in european countries, have acces to nuclear power currently unsettles me much more than iran getting nuclear power. Especially since "communist" (yeah right) China, or india and pakistan have them as well.

Btw. If you got a wrong impression now, i don't like the iranian government as well, and his comments about jews and israel are just plain stupid idiotic and offensive, especially from my german point of view, but i also have the impression that they aren't worse then what they had before.

[Dayve]

China, Russia or most European countries having nuclear arms shouldn't unsettle anybody... Iran acquiring them should, because we all know they would just launch one at their Israeli neighbours... We've all heard the comments that cocky little shitbag president of theirs makes about wanting to wipe Israel off the map...

[Salazar]

He isn't exactly the quiet type. But i don't think he's really going to do anything.
And Putin having nuclear weapons does unsettle me, i have nothing against russians, i've got to russian girls in my class who are quite ok.
But this Putin, he's just creepy, especially how he deals with the press and anybody against him, and how he supports Belarus dictator Lukaschenka who is basically the last european real dictator.
And the most creepy thing is that our german government actually cooperates with that guy.

[Dayve]

You shouldn't worry about such things too much... If i watched the news twice a day and learned about politics and listened to or watched things like Fahrenheit 9/11 and actually took them seriously then i would lose sleep over constant worrying... I just leave politics to the politicians and get on with my life... I believe people are generally good as a whole, but there are always going to be bad apples in the batch who are able to corrupt peoples minds into following their stupid ideals and commiting their crimes...

A few examples of these bad apples are hitler, stalin, saddam, this current Iranian president...

[the_handsome_viking]

Signed.

[Shigawire]

Signed.

[phelimO'labrada]

absolutely shocking, im not surprised like but its awful, i was at the persian exhibition at the british museum and have some photographs of the tomb.