How do you beat skirmisher cavalry?

[mediobogdum]

Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.

What do you guys/girls do when confronted with an entire cavalry force that wont stand and fight like men?:wall:

One more minor thing, how do you indent paragraphs on this board without skipping a line?

[paullus]

Well, dealing with skirmisher cav was one of the great frustration of commanders in ancient times, and they complained about it a lot. However, a lot of commanders had success with slingers. Another tactic (if you have timed battles, don't know if it'd work otherwise) is to ignore their field armies and assault their towns (also an ancient tactic). So if they attack you, you just deploy slingers (and catapulta if you have em) on the edges of your formation and ward the suckers off until the time is up or they decide to assault you.

I've wanted to try a feigned route, and try to drag em in, but I havent gotten up the nerve to try it in-game.

[Dooz]

I've wanted to try a feigned route, and try to drag em in, but I havent gotten up the nerve to try it in-game.

Why not try it in a custom battle? Although it'd be more fun and realistic trying it for the first time in an actual battle that counts, just as the real general would have eventually done.


One more minor thing, how do you indent paragraphs on this board without skipping a line?
I'd love to know as well. As far as I know though, you can't. Please someone prove me wrong.

[Mouzafphaerre]

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how do you indent paragraphs on this board without skipping a line?
Wrap your paragraph between 2sp or 3sp tags, to your liking. To indent it as a block, use the indent tag. Examples:

Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.
gives

Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.

while



Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.
results in


Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.

They can be used together:


Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.

Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.

It might be worth trying to see if multiple cascading 2sp/3sp codes work for further indentation. ~;)
A detailed list of available tags can be found here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/misc.php?do=bbcode).

Hth! :ave:
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[Mouzafphaerre]

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It might be worth trying to see if multiple cascading 2sp/3sp codes work for further indentation. ~;)
Well...


Playing as Bactria I have been betyrayed by the Parthians. Forced to shift my focus from the conquest of India, I built an army of cavalry and brought the war to the homelands of my enemy. Eventually I destroyed them (gaining "Conquerer of Parthians" trait for Arsakes my lead general on the western front; cool as hell), but I was forced to overwhelm them with numbers and auto calc due to my inability to coordinate battles that consisted almost entirely of my skirmisher cavalry vs their skirmisher cavalry. I tried to contain them (impossible), I tried to trap them (too fast), I tried to shower them with missiles (they kill more of mine than I of theirs). I am ashamed to admit that were it not for autocalc I seriously doubt I would have been able to carry the day.

It works! :idea2:
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[Dooz]

Thank you Mouzafphaerre! Very useful indeed.

[Zero1]

I find that large amounts of those Iranian troops with the spears and composite bows decimate horse archers and the like.

[Malrubius]

Eranshar Arshtbara come in very handy for this, I think. You keep them in loose formation for better protection from the missiles, fire-at-will, but guard mode instead of skirmish. They won't be able to charge these spear-armed men and you can trade arrows with them fairly effectively.

Maybe try this (but it is one of those micromanage tactics, and would be difficult on a crowded battlefield):
Use your horse archers to pick out an enemy unit and manuever so the enemy is between your arshtbara and your cav. Use your cav to "push" the horse archers towards your infantry. You will probably need to use your other horse archers to keep the rest of the enemy at bay, so you can cut them out one at a time.

Another possibility:
If you have few to no horse archers, and have to attack with your infantry, try to use 'bound and overwatch' tactics, advancing one unit towards the horse archers while another is stationary and fires at them. If you have a phalanx, have it slowly advance forward--it will draw a lot of ineffective fire and keep your own archers alive long enough to wear the enemy down. If the cav charges, halt your phalanx and let them kill themselves on your pikes.

My best luck has been just taking their cities, as suggested. Horse archers are not made for defending settlements, and your bound and overwatch advance will work wonders, unless they completely abandon the town square.

[Zero1]

I've had lots of success against horse archers, basically what I do is raise a big army made largely of Eranshars for the sole purpose of fighting off horse archers.

I march them all out in a big line in loose and guard mode, order them to fire at will and more often then not they win the day, outshooting the mounted archers.

Another tactic I find useful for later when I had more money, I'd add a few pezhetairoi to the mix and march them out in front of my Eranshars. The horse archers will shoot the Pezhetairoi head on who take few casualties while the Eranshar tucked safely behind them unload their arrows. The horse archers innevitably take more casualties then they dish out this way, and either rout, die, or dwindle in number to the point of ineffectiveness.

[mediobogdum]

Thanks for the replies. The indent tag is particularly valuable! Thank you Mouzafphaerre

[Steppe Merc]

Hey, real men don't stand and fight, they ride around and slaughter their enemies. :laugh4:

But everyone elses replies are quite good advice.

[The Persian Cataphract]

This is exactly what makes EB such a wonder to play: Êrânshahr Ârshtîbarâ. I see that some already have recommended it.

Though I'm not sure if Bactria ever get these infantrymen, they are the best deterrent against pesky horse-archers. Heck I'd even call them some of the best infantry in the game if deployed correctly. Horse-archers can't stand a chance against this spear/bow combo. No one can lose against horse-archers with these troops unless outnumbered.

[Malrubius]

Playing Baktria, they make up the vast bulk of my army, as you can see. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=60222)

[The Persian Cataphract]

Ah, I see... Well, all the better for Bactria players then =)

Haven't played Bactria at all as I've been busy trying to conquer the world with my Parthians. I've got everything to thank those Êrânshahr Ârshtîbarâ for. Amazing troops.

[Spectral]

Though I'm not sure if Bactria ever get these infantrymen,

Yes they have, they're really wonderful units (but I think I've seen someone from EB write that they will be somewhat nerfed down in the next patch)



In my campaigns against the Yueshi I've used a different tactic, but the Yuezhi armies had a different composition, half "noble cavalry" with bow and spear, and the other half some low level infantry (archers and spearmen).


Half my army would be archers, the Eranshar or better slingers or even better the indian longbowmen :2thumbsup: , while the other half would be what I called "shock troops", shock cavalry like baktrian hippeis and thureophoroi ( and sometimes 1/2 phalanx), deployed in open formation and whose mission in the battle was to rush the enemy infantry line, while the archers kept pounding the yuezhi cav. Sure they took some casualties while crossing that distance, but they would eventually close to real-man-fighting-distance :laugh4: and slaughter the poor yuezhi infantry. Meanwhile their cav would try to help their foot counterpart, enganging in the melee and eventually losing it.

Normally my general would be in the first wave of the attack, trying to pick his eastern counterpart.

This tactic is very risky because it is extremely dependent on the terrain where you fight ( don't do this against an enemy uphill :laugh4: ), so you should be extremely careful to make sure you're the one to chose where to fight. But hey, it was funny at hell, my brave hellennes charging against the barbarians through a storm of arrows :2thumbsup:


Also don't forget to bring a surgeon, agains thrown weapons the casualty recovery rate after battles is bigger and this makes its presence in the generals retinue even more noticeable.

[mediobogdum]

I guess I am not using enough of them then, because I use Êrânshahr Ârshtîbarâ as the only foot archers in my army and I generally try to get them to engage the Parthian cavalry thinking their spears will win out. One on one they get routed however. Tonight when I play I'm going to go northwest with about half of my force consisting of these guys and see what I can do to bring down the Parthians once and for all.

[The Persian Cataphract]

I guess I am not using enough of them then, because I use Êrânshahr Ârshtîbarâ as the only foot archers in my army and I generally try to get them to engage the Parthian cavalry thinking their spears will win out. One on one they get routed however. Tonight when I play I'm going to go northwest with about half of my force consisting of these guys and see what I can do to bring down the Parthians once and for all.

Well, these light infantry can't do much against cataphracts. Yes, they do rout one on one, but rarely against horse-archers (At least not against the Dahae). They are practically there for these things:

*Deterrent against horse-archers
*Superior levy infantry, will win any fight against say, pantodapoi
*Standard archers while being cost-effective and cheap troops to recruit

You need to bring down Parthia early on. Never allow Parthia to get the economy needed to support cataphracts.

[pezhetairoi]

Strange. Pahlava Shivatir always outshot my eranshar on level ground in an archery duel. O_o I have to go back and review my battles, or something. I keep losing foot archers while the Pahlav's units don't ever seem to lose anything.

[mediobogdum]

Strange. Pahlava Shivatir always outshot my eranshar on level ground in an archery duel. O_o I have to go back and review my battles, or something. I keep losing foot archers while the Pahlav's units don't ever seem to lose anything.

Those are the guys, Shivatir. Arrow for arrow they always win out over my Êrânshahr Ârshtîbarâ. My Western Army has come to fear 3/4 stacks made up almost entirely of these guys menacing my frontiers.

[pezhetairoi]

Gods. Good thing I eventually switched over to whole marauding armies of Daha Baexzhyntae and Mad Asabara to chase them to the edges of the map the old-school RTW way. >.< My feet archers were just not making it.

[Elthanas84]

I know it is kind of abusing the AI, but fighting with the Yuezhi I often stopped my army next to the enemy army end hit end of turn. When they attack you, they often run straight for melee and you can shoot them down easily with your own archers, especialy on hills.