Are the Imans inciting violence

[Gawain of Orkeny]

I couldnt believe this when I found it. It seems


that Danish Muslim leaders and imams, on a tour of the Islamic world are handing out to their contacts to “explain” how offensive the cartoons are. The report contains 15 pictures instead of 12. The first of the three additional pictures, which are of dismal quality, shows Muhammad as a pedophile deamon
http://ekstrabladet.dk/grafik/nettet/tegninger40.jpg

the second shows the prophet with a pigsnout
http://ekstrabladet.dk/grafik/nettet/tegninger38.jpg

and the third depicts a praying Muslim being raped by a dog
http://ekstrabladet.dk/grafik/nettet/tegninger39.jpg

Apparently, the 12 original pictures were not deemed bad enough to convince other Muslims that Muslims in Denmark are the victims of a campaign of religious hatred.

Akhmad Akkari, spokesman of the 21 Danish Muslim organizations which organized the tour, explained that the three drawings had been added to “give an insight in how hateful the atmosphere in Denmark is towards Muslims.” Akkari claimed he does not know the origin of the three pictures. He said they had been sent anonymously to Danish Muslims. However, when Ekstra Bladet asked if it could talk to these Muslims, Akkari refused to reveal their identity.



No wonder their ****** off. Can anyone tell me how they can draw these cartoons or print them when its against their laws?

LINK (http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/668)

[Xiahou]

I've heard about this too. The Iman who took these to the Middle East to incite violence apparently didnt think the original 12 were good enough.

What's really ridiculous is that the supposed pig-faced Muhammed picture is actually a photo from a pig-calling competition in France or some such- it had absolutely nothing to do with Islam. Yet, this tool prints it out and types "Muhammed" on the top of it. That's really pathetic. :no:

You have to assume the dog one was also something totally unrelated that was deliberately taken out of context. The 1st of the 3 looks like something he could've just scrawled with a marker.

[Spetulhu]

No wonder their ****** off. Can anyone tell me how they can draw these cartoons or print them when its against their laws?


How? Because an extremist can do anything to further his cause, that's why.

Not that I'd put it above some non-muslim to draw the extras and send them to someone they want to piss off.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

But who drew the first one. How could they do it if its against there laws. Surely printing up copies of these cartoons and passing them out would also be against the law. Even more so as their being shown to Muslims.

[Proletariat]

It seems obvious at this point they're being stirred up, but who cares? It's just as bad either way. If the Quran was being printed on toilet paper in Denmark, would that make it any less savage to run around throwing rocks and petrol bombs? When you start putting materialism or symbolism above other human's lives, that's where you cross the line where I personally stop caring about why you're outraged.

[Xiahou]

I'd still like to see the person who falsified and spread this crap brought up on charges though.

[Meneldil]

This kind of pics can be found easily on the net. You know, neo-nazi and extreme right sites... No need to draw them at all.

[AntiochusIII]

This is one of those times that Redleg's concept of Freedom of Speech applies. I presume there is a law against such malicious lies intended on inflaming the public in many countries; is there one in Denmark? If yes, the perpetrators need to be punished for such crimes.

Even though I disagree with his concept in other times... (but it's a different topic, so...)

[Samurai Waki]

Denmark is going to be bitter after all of these Shinanigans...and what has Denmark ever done to piss off anyone since like the 1600s anyway?

[Fragony]

Why do I get the feeling that Iran is showing it's muscles. But even if the cartoons don't exist, they are just an excuse for the boomski's to go berserk, anything would have done; their primitive rage was allready there. That danish imam should be hung at his balls untill he coughs them up though.

ahum Buahahaha

http://www.geenstijl.nl/mt/archieven/images/beheadpicca.jpg

[Watchman]

Right. So what we have in the Red corner is them Imam "ambassadors" sexing up their case with entirely unconnected pictures probably drawn form some skinhead neonazi site, and inciting the unhappy common folk into raging mobs.

In the Blue corner we have pompous, self-righterious Westerners who should know better copping a blatantly racist attitude à la Exhibit A Fragony here concealed under the teensy-weensy fig leaf of righteous indignation, generally swallowing the bait hook line and sinker, and sure as Hell providing nothing positive to the mess.

I'd frankly be really happy if my generally low opinions of humanity in general weren't so thoroughly proven justified on a regular basis. This crap is giving me indigestion now.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

neo-nazis?

you don't think that maybe the people who went on tour with these were the ones responsible for these pictures at all ?

[Fragony]

In the Blue corner we have pompous, self-righterious Westerners who should know better copping a blatantly racist attitude à la Exhibit A Fragony here concealed under the teensy-weensy fig leaf of righteous indignation, generally swallowing the bait hook line and sinker, and sure as Hell providing nothing positive to the mess.


Irony alert? Why should we know better unless we are better? And it is a blattant lie that I bring nothing positive, I have already said that I like shoarma.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

have already said that I like shoarma.


Is that the grilled meat stuff?

[Fragony]

Is that the grilled meat stuff?

Yes sir! Quite taste with some garlicdressing or sambal.

http://www.shoarma-babylon.nl/images/scroller/big/1.jpg

[Xiahou]

neo-nazis?

you don't think that maybe the people who went on tour with these were the ones responsible for these pictures at all ?
Like I already said, the one was a photo from a pig-squealing contest that took place in France. I fail to see where skinheads come into that one.

[Watchman]

I've seen the "Mohammed was a satanic pedophile" idea referred to in context of ultra-Christians before, so odds are the Imams didn't have to look very far if they wanted dirty pics to outrage their co-religionists with. Hell, they probably regularly get that junk in hate mail...
Not that I'd put it past them to procure some themselves either. "For the good of the cause" and all that. History is full of way worse examples of the same principle.

The Muslims out in the developing world can at least plead low education levels, severely restricted information access and tendentiously biased accounts of the issue. What exactly do we Westerners have to plead in defense of our primitive reactions ?

Sixty-seven channels and nothing on ?

[Gawain of Orkeny]

But how can they ignore their own laws by printing copies of these pictures and passing them around? Doesnt their law prohibit this as well?

[Kralizec]

I also read that a particular (radical) Imam publicly accepted the newspapers apology, and later during the friday's prayer he called up for protests anyway. That, along with the fake pictures other imams have been spreading shows that all of this is the work of a number of radical imams stirring up the muslim masses.
Therefore it's not so much the problem that muslims don't accept free speech, but that they'll believe anything their imams tell them and follow them blindingly.

Fragony: kebab tastes waaay better :bounce:

[rory_20_uk]

But can't you see this is for the Greater Good, and as such any act is allowed... Well, that's the argument for every bad thing done in the name of a good thing isn't it? :inquisitive:

~:smoking:

[Viking]

No wonder their ****** off. Can anyone tell me how they can draw these cartoons or print them when its against their laws?

Nah, most muslims doesn`t know what these cartoons are all about; it`s the cartoons in themselves that appear to be the insulting element.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

Nah, most muslims doesn`t know what these cartoons are all about; it`s the cartoons in themselves that appear to be the insulting element.


One more time. Isnt it against Muslim law to print these pictures . Isnt that why they are protesting. Yet when they print them its fine?

[Viking]

One more time. Isnt it against Muslim law to print these pictures . Isnt that why they are protesting. Yet when they print them its fine?


That`s only true for Shia Islam, which makes up the miniority of Muslims.
At least that`s what I`ve heard.

[Adrian II]

What exactly do we Westerners have to plead in defense of [/I]our[I] primitive reactions?One thing that pleads in our defense is the kind of self-criticism and individual judgment you are displaying in your posts. It is sadly lacking in most Muslim states and in many Muslim religious traditions.

[Gawain of Orkeny]

That`s only true for Shia Islam, which makes up the miniority of Muslims.
At least that`s what I`ve heard.


So only Shias are protesting? I dont think your correct here.

[Adrian II]

One more time. Isnt it against Muslim law to print these pictures . Isnt that why they are protesting. Yet when they print them its fine?For God's sake, Gawain, none of us knows and none of us cares. Call Bahrein and ask for a fatwa if you have to know. ~:)

[Redleg]

:dizzy2: Sure there are those using speech to incite others to violence. It is being by those on both sides of the spectrum of the issue.:dizzy2:

Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing, if people would exercise the responsiblity that goes along with it. However what you have is a group of individuals that are utilizing speech in an irresponsible way, and claiming that they are protected by the concept of Free Speech to get away with it.

Unfortunately they are both correct - since the government can not prosecute those individuals in most of the western societies - unless of course they are being ballant with thier inciting others to violence, and wrong because they are not accepting responsiblity for their words.

Then you have states that only allow negative speech of outside groups to be vented in their nation, and no counter speech to off set that speech. That is not really Freedom of Speech - that starts to fall into the catergory of state supported propaganda.:dizzy2:

[Gawain of Orkeny]

For God's sake, Gawain, none of us knows and none of us cares. Call Bahrein and ask for a fatwa if you have to know

For God's sake, Adrian, the whole thing started because they claim your not allowed to make or show pictures of Mohamed. What else need one know?

[Adrian II]

For God's sake, Adrian, the whole thing started because they claim your not allowed to make or show pictures of Mohamed. What else need one know?LOL. It's their theological problem, not yours or mine.

[Watchman]

One thing that pleads in our defense is the kind of self-criticism and individual judgment you are displaying in your posts. It is sadly lacking in most Muslim states and in many Muslim religious traditions.
I refuse to make any statements or for that matter far-reaching assumptions about that, on the grounds that I just plain don't know what degree of reasoned self-reflection the moderates in Muslim countries practice. Neither, I strongly suspect, do you. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

It's always the mobs and the fanatics who shout out the loudest anyway.

Speaking of which, where does *my* critical attitude let the *rest* of the smart folks who should know better off the hook ?

[Watchman]

But how can they ignore their own laws by printing copies of these pictures and passing them around? Doesnt their law prohibit this as well?I actually wouldn't be terribly surprised if the logic went roughly along the lines "I know this is wrong and sinful; however, I am willing to be guilty of this sin for the sake of making my brothers in faith truly understand the graveness of the situation." A sort of "I will commit the necessary crime for the greater good so others don't have to" line of reasoning.

'Course, a fanatical enough attitude simply ignores such considerations, or disposes of them with some really flaky reasoning that doesn't stand three seconds of critical scrutiny. When you are Right, after all, you can do no Wrong. This line of thinking is both worrisomely widespread (*coughbushetcocough*) and depressingly persistent - it always crawls out of the woodwork again, sooner or later. It also tends to require some suitable article of Faith or a Higher Cause to provide the fanatic with the Fundamental Truth he needs to make the whole effigy work.

And the road to Hell is very much lined with Absolute Truths. Some of the worst atrocities in history have been carried out by people who Believed, and hence Could Not Err.

[Viking]

So only Shias are protesting? I dont think your correct here.


No, the Sunnies(sp?) are protesting. I don`t think there was too much fuss in Iraq, where the Shias make up the majority.

[Dâriûsh]

No, the Sunnies(sp?) are protesting. I don`t think there was too much fuss in Iraq, where the Shias make up the majority.

Let's wait and see what happens on the day of Ashurah and thereafter.

[Lemur]

For God's sake, Adrian, the whole thing started because they claim your not allowed to make or show pictures of Mohamed. What else need one know?
G, I'm certain that if you point out the inherent contradiction of sending and reproducing forbidden pictures, they will cease their naughty ways post-haste.