"Heretic" Sects ?

[LeftEyeNine]

What are the heretic sects of Christianity, Islam and Judaism throughout the history ? I'd appreciate any info on them please.

[Watchman]

Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and the innumerable brands of Protestantism immediately come to mind as far as Christianity goes. The Muslims have the Sunnis and Shi'ites.

[Samurai Waki]

I believe the Cathars are probably the best well known heretical sect in Christianity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathars

[Kralizec]

The first movement to be comdemned as a heretical sect would probably be Arianism, the christians who refused to follow the decrees of the Nicean council.
Essentially, they denounced the trinity doctrine. They believed that Jesus was a sort of prophet, not an incarnation of God.

Another important early heretical sect is monophysitism. While Catholic and Orthodox (still one church at the time) doctrine states that Jesus was both fully man and fully Divine, monophysitism IIRC that he has only one nature, the Divine one.
Monophysitism was popular in Egypt and in other eastern territories, wich alienated it from the Byzanthine empire and paved the way for the Arab invaders.

[LeftEyeNine]

Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy and the innumerable brands of Protestantism immediately come to mind as far as Christianity goes. The Muslims have the Sunnis and Shi'ites.

Umm.. I was referring to more "weird" fractions that could even conflict with the main discipline the sect is said to be belonging to.

And I think we can add those that opposed the main religion as well. There used to be notices in specific turns of MTW about those sects rising disturbance. Actually, they are where the idea of the thread came from.

Thanks for the responses already and in advance. I'll check the links as soon as I get a tight sleep :bow:

[Reenk Roink]

For Christianity:

Arianism - Founded by Egyptian bishop Arius. Doctrine of Jesus not being God since he was created. Denied belief in trinity, therefore extremely heretical. Spread among Germanic tribes but wiped out by 6th century.

Coptic Church - Jesus was only of one nature, completely God, not a man. Also extremely heretical, located in Egypt.

Docetism - very early Christian group, deeply influenced by Gnostics. Jesus was a disguise used by God while he was with man. Jesus's sufferings were illusionary, and he was not even nailed to the cross, it was an illusion/someone else took his place. Crushed by 4th century.

Donantism - not really a heritical sect, as the reaffirmed trinity doctrine, but they refused to acknowledge Rome's leadership. In North Africa, crushed in 412 though the belief lingered on.

Montanism - founded by Montanus around 170, spread through Turkey. God spoke directly through leaders and women were allowed higher positions in church. Lost popularity quickly...

Nestorianism - Nestorius of Syria (died 450) Jesus was made up of two persons one human, one divine. Mary was only the mother of the human Christ, not God. Fled towards Sassinan lands.

You know Mormons and Jehovas Witnesses but those are latter groups...

Also the Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches both excommunicated each other around the 11th century.

And of course the Lutheran/Calvinist/Anabaptist movements...

Islam:

Shi'ites, Kharjites, Mutazalites, Ismailis, though I don't know the official position as Islam is very wary of rendering one apostate, and with the exception of probably Ismailis, the others are conserided deviants, not apostates.

[LeftEyeNine]

Shi'ites and Sunnis can not be counted "heretic", can they ?

[Reenk Roink]

Well I'm pretty sure that Sunni is an overwhelming majority, and has been that way Sunni Islam's history. Sunni is the following the path of Muhammad, while Shi'ites are the followers of Ali. Shi'ites originally formed after Ali's assassination, and believe that the direct heirs of Muhammad through his cousin Ali and daughter Fatima are unfalliable. The imam system came this way whether it be 12 imams or 9 or 7.

As for hereticalness...I think the bulk Shi'ites are considered within Islam, though deviant (by Sunnis). Some small groups (like Ismailis) are considered outside Islam.

By the way, for an MTW timeline, it would be great to put the Fatimids and the Assassins as extremist political groups (both are splintered from Shi'ites I think).

As for Christianity, I don't really see anything except the Catholic/Orthodox Schism in the timeline, though you could mention the Babylonian Captivity...

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Hussites, Cathars, Pelagianism, Arianism, Lollards, Bogomils, Manichaeism, Nestorianism, Waldensians are the best known Christian ones that I can think of offhand.

The Franciscans would have been if they hadn't have got the pope on their side.

Well, the Orthodox churches maintain that Catholics are schismatic heretics (which they are, technically, I suppose) whilst the Catholics maintain that Protestants are heretics (which they are).

[Kralizec]

Technicly, protestants are no longer "heretics" to the Catholic Church but "separated brothers in Christ". This was decided in a relatively recent council, don't remember wich one though.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

Technicly, protestants are no longer "heretics" to the Catholic Church but "separated brothers in Christ". This was decided in a relatively recent council, don't remember wich one though.


damn hippies


:laugh4:

[Samurai Waki]

I'm a Heretic.

[Meneldil]

Isn't christianism a sect of judaism in the first place ?

[Rodion Romanovich]

The definition of heretic can either be someone who doesn't follow the original belief of their religion, or someone who has another opinion than the most powerful leaders of the religion. In the latter case, the groups traditionally called heretics by the church are heretics while Catholics, Protestants, Sunnis and Shiites are not. With the former definition, at least 99% of all religious people are heretics. If one is to discuss which churches are closest to the original religion as it was formed by it's founder, many "heretical" sects such as Arianism, Coptic Church and Nestorianism, are/were much closer to the orginal teachings than Catholic and Orthodox faith, according to theological research suggesting that the trinity and even the thought that Jesus was divine and not just a prophet wasn't part of the earliest Christianity.

[kataphraktoi]

Heretical is subjective, but anyhoo

Christian Heretics are often commonly noted for their denial of the Nicene and Chalcedonian Creeds.

Note: Chalcedonian Creed emphasises that Christ has two distinct divine and human - not separate - natures united in one person)

I'm no Nestorian, but I can argue that Nestorianism is not heretical by any means. Closer examination reveals that its "heretical" tag is due more to personality clashes and jostling over which Patriarchal See was more prestigious which means that it really has nothing to do with religion. As for the whole thing about "Mother of God" (Theotokos), it was played up for the aforesaid reason.

In the medieval ages (Mongol Period), the Pope declared that the Nestorians had similar beliefs to the Catholic Church (Nestorians accept the Chalcedonian Creed), some Nestorians went as far as to become Uniate Churches (In Communion with Rome).

Monophysites (Christ's divine and human nature are united into one nature)
Under this umbrella belong the Coptic and Jacobite churches.
They veer from the Chalcedonian Creed because of their insistence on the single-natured Christ but I don't think that is a big deal.

Arianism (Emphasised more on the human nature of Christ than his divine nature)
Successful heretical sect that converted the Gothic tribes. Visigoths were last known adherents before subscribing to the Chalcedonian Creed.

Dualists (Believe that there is a good god and an evil god)
Under this umbrella belongs the Cathars and Bogomils who derived from the Paulicians who came from Armenia. They have influences from Manichaeism but have a particular attachment to the writings of Paul. They were finally defeated by Basil I and settled in THrace eventually starting a Bogomil Church popular in Bulgaria and Bosnia. Eventually, their teachings reached Southern France and hence the Cathars.

Jehovah's Witness deny the Trinity, believe that Jesus Christ is Archangel Michael (Mikha'ail) and Holy Spirit is impersonal active force.

Mormons are the Quasi-Christian version of Islam with the claim the Moroni (an angel) revealed to Joseph Smith the revelations of God (through Golden Plates) which formed the Book of Mormon. I'm not sayiing its the same as Islam, just noting the coincidental occurences of angels revealing messages to men who claimed they were prophets afterwards.

An alarming modern heretical movement is a Christian cult in China called Eastern Lightning which claims that the Messiah has come back in the form of a woman in Henan province. They are noted for using sex, kidnapping and brainwashing tactics to recruit new converts. The security bureau is trying to hunt them down and classify them as the same class as Fulan Gong. I can tell you they are not comparable to Fulan Gong because they are not militantly aggressive.

Is Christianity a sect of Judaism before it became a religion in its own right?
Depends.

At its roots, Christianity is seen not as "Christianity" the religion but Judaism itself in all aspects of continuation (not replacement). Basically, the belief is that Christianity is Judaism, albeit, a non-Jewish version which de-emphasises the Jewishness of its roots to adapt to various cultures it comes into contact while maintaining that it has not broken from Judaism. The Gospels were written by Jewish men who were very much part of the Synagogical life of Judaism until the rebellion of Bar Kochba when Jews who followed Jesus (Yeshua Mshika) could not accept Kochba as the Messiah and were thus forcibly expelled from the Jewish community. In modern times, Jews who follow Jesus are part of the Messianic Judaism scene which attempts to put Christianity back into its true Jewish setting. I have read their translation of the Gospels and found them quite profound through Jewish eyes than European eyes.

As for Islam, I think there are Muslims on the .org more qualified than I am to comment on them. The ones I recall are at best obscure and they are:

Hurramites
Druzes

Hope this helps.

[GoreBag]

The definition of heretic can either be someone who doesn't follow the original belief of their religion, or someone who has another opinion than the most powerful leaders of the religion. In the latter case, the groups traditionally called heretics by the church are heretics while Catholics, Protestants, Sunnis and Shiites are not.

Protestants are heretics by definition.

[Rodion Romanovich]

Protestants are heretics by definition.
I thought they changed that recently? :confused:

[kataphraktoi]

Heresy is defined as deviation from orthodoxy. This definition steers from bias towards any particular sect or denomination. Protestants can argue back that the Catholic church is heretical for perverting original teachings of the church. Vice - Versa.

In my opinion, some 'heretics' are harmless and inconsequential if viewed within the context of salvation. Eg. I disagree with Monophysitism, but by no means think that they;re goin to hell for their views or anything, its inconsequential.

[GoreBag]

I thought they changed that recently? :confused:

You got me there, actually. If there was some Papal decree that recognised the many groups under the Protestant mantle, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it was a cold day in hell when it was decided.

[Kraxis]

but I'm pretty sure it was a cold day in hell when it was decided.
PLease leave that at the door next time...

[Prince Cobra]

Some exotic heresies that appeared in Southeastern Europe esp. in Byzantium and the Balkan region (XIV century)

Adamism (my favourite ~;) ): The adamits ( people who profess that heresy) refused to wear any clothing. They did it because they were against any social differences.
Varlaamism (not sure about the spelling, the name came from the first leader Varlaam of Calabria): They were rivals of the isichasts (who believed that God can not became known by using the mind but by devotion) and they believed in the logical explanation of the God's nature. However the isichasm became an official doctrine of the Orthodox church and the varlaamits were excommuncated.

Islam

Hashashins (or Assasins)-existed in Iran in the Middle ages. they were mentioned above as Assasins but the original name is Hashashins. They were ruled by a misterious person, called the Old man ( that was a title not only one person). His followers were taking opium and had to do everything what their master ordered. Most often that was an assassinations of people who weren't liked by the organisation.

[hellas1]

-What about the Sufis in Islam?

They were and are still considered somewhat heretical by Orthodox Muslims.
They have specific meditation exercises and devotion to the Sheikh (pronounced SHAYK) to be their mentor in spiritual matters, leading ultimately to union with God.

-The Jonangpas of Buddhism?

They were Buddhists who believed that a person did have a soul, even though the physical body, the naming of objects, brain and mind "per se" and that which our senses perceive are impermanent, which "normal" Buddhism believes more or less. They eventually died out.

As a matter of fact, in the Pali Buddhist texts, twice the Buddha talks about a state that already exists that is already clear, luminous, and unconditioned.

Most Buddhists say: "NO, we have to attain it by purifying the mind."
In Tibetan Dzogchen THAT is our ultimate nature.


-The Radhasoami sect, roughly associated w/Sikhism?
Satch-Kandh is the highest dimension where the real god is.
Kal is like the devil, who deludes people by believing that each state of consciousness, ex. Brahman, ParaBrahman, Niranjan,etc. is the highest or is god.


-In Christianity, the Ophites, who believed that Satan was Good and the "God" of the bible was evil!


Weird, huh? Think a little!