fur outrage

[Leonin Khan]

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video.asp?video=fur_farm&Player=wm&speed=_med

[Weebeast]

Does skinning them alive make the fur more sturdy or something? What's the point of hitting them so hard but not killing them? I mean then they have to hit them again while skinning. That's so inefficient.

All that aside, this video seems to be scripted me thinks. I mean if I had that kinda job I wouldn't step on the animals in a torturing way for no reason just like that guy did.

[Leonin Khan]

still its stupid..you just dont do stuff like that

[Sjakihata]

The video doenst play when I click the link

[Weebeast]

What? Torture.. I mean sacrificing a couple of animals and making a video just to persuade people to give sympathy and support? LOL

Anyway, yeah I don't squander resources. I will never wear fur for luxury. If I ever had to wear fur I had to survive. It's expensive anyway unless it's made in China lol. I heard they use 'urban' cat fur and pass them on as something else lol.

[Meneldil]

That's the common way of things in China and some other asian countries. Totally disgusting. Among other things, animals are drowned into boiling water, skinned alive, beaten to death and tortured in various ways.
I'm going to sound like some whiny european liberal, but people who do such things should be killed in a really painful way.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That's the common way of things in China and some other asian countries. Totally disgusting. Among other things, animals are drowned into boiling water, skinned alive, beaten to death and tortured in various ways.
I'm going to sound like some whiny european liberal...

He shoots -- he scores! :2thumbsup:

Just like Ruth, a called shot exactly where he pointed.

[GoreBag]

Everyone who has a problem with this should shut up. This is age-old news. When this was posted on the metal forum for my city, everyone took sides from the apathetic to the hyper-sensitive, except a certain Chinese friend of mine who scolded all the hippies for developing their moral outrage. Have you guys ever been to China? How about the mountainous regions where this is happening and everyone is dirt-poor? This is how they survive. Do you really think they're going out of their way to make the animals suffer if they have to skin that many to get by?

[Just A Girl]

Yes im sure its cheaper to kill lots of animals, Skin them, Find a buyer, Then sell them,
Than it is to grow food.

[Papewaio]

I've seen plenty of possum skinning in NZ... and sheep and cattle. Every animal that I have seen skinned so far has been swiftly killed and then skinned... it is apparently a lot easier to do while they are both dead and not stiff.

[GoreBag]

Yes im sure its cheaper to kill lots of animals, Skin them, Find a buyer, Then sell them,
Than it is to grow food.

Who says they're not food?

Pape, that much makes sense. How were the animals in question killed, though, and for what were the skins intended?

[Xiahou]

I've seen plenty of possum skinning in NZ... and sheep and cattle. Every animal that I have seen skinned so far has been swiftly killed and then skinned... it is apparently a lot easier to do while they are both dead and not stiff.Im sure that's the case 99% of the time too. Just leave it to PETA to troll around and paint the absolute worst case scenarios they can find as the way everyone does it.

So what if China does it? Go pester them then. :bow:

[Meneldil]

Everyone who has a problem with this should shut up.

Yeah, too bad most of these animals aren't tortured for food-surviving, but for the good old - fairly useless - chinese medicine (using things like cats or pandas' testicles that supposeldy cure impotence), or for the western furs market.
Everyone who has no problem with this should be skinned alive.


Im sure that's the case 99% of the time too. Just leave it to PETA to troll around and paint the absolute worst case scenarios they can find as the way everyone does it.

The fact it only happens 1% of the time doesn't make it less horrible. Is that the same bush worshipers' 'We tortured only a few of them, so that's not too biggie, heh' argument ?

Furthermore, I don't think the video is criticizing countries like NZ, but rather China, Korea or Vietnam, where things like that are fairly common.
I'm not a PETA fan at all, but there's a difference between whining for something pretty pointless, and what you can see in these videos.
But heh, since it's PETA, they are either lying or making it up, heh :idea2:
Go into a 5 millions inhabitants city in backward central China, and you'll see if they're making that up.

[GoreBag]

Yeah, too bad most of these animals aren't tortured for food-surviving, but for the good old - fairly useless - chinese medicine (using things like cats or pandas' testicles that supposeldy cure impotence), or for the western furs market.
Everyone who has no problem with this should be skinned alive.

Where in this video were the dogs' testicles removed?

[Just A Girl]

If you think they need to torture and kill animals in order to survive, You have a screw loose.

I dont need to skin a cat to eat or sell its fur.
If i need food i can either Grow it. or buy it.
I find it easier to buy it.
But growing it is no problem either.

Rino-horn.
And tiger penis remidies exetera, Just take way from your argument.
So i thought id mention them.

Hows about whale's No 1s mentioned them..

Or shark fin's And how they catch a shark slash off there fins then just throw the shark back in to the water where it can drown in pain with no way to swim or feed.

Great!

Really though.
Il send you guy some seeds. if your that hard up.
Soon have a community full of tomatoes.
Go well with Rice.

il send you a few bags of potatoes.. Plant em. and more will grow.
Its decent weather in china.
So il send you all the orange and apple seeds i Have left after i eat some.

[Weebeast]

I dont need to skin a cat to eat or sell its fur.
If i need food i can either Grow it. or buy it.
I find it easier to buy it.
But growing it is no problem either.
I think what the dude above trying to say is that the need they fur money to buy food.

[Papewaio]

Pape, that much makes sense. How were the animals in question killed, though, and for what were the skins intended?

Possums in Australia are an endangered species that may not be killed without getting in trouble.

Possums in New Zealand are an introduced species that kill native flora and fauna. As such they are killed for sport and their pelts are sold for use in a variety of clothes and other items.

I have seen the killed by shotguns, rifles and ones caught in traps a tyre iron to the head.

[GoreBag]

If you think they need to torture and kill animals in order to survive, You have a screw loose.

I dont need to skin a cat to eat or sell its fur.
If i need food i can either Grow it. or buy it.
I find it easier to buy it.
But growing it is no problem either.

Rino-horn.
And tiger penis remidies exetera, Just take way from your argument.
So i thought id mention them.

Hows about whale's No 1s mentioned them..

Or shark fin's And how they catch a shark slash off there fins then just throw the shark back in to the water where it can drown in pain with no way to swim or feed.

Great!

Really though.
Il send you guy some seeds. if your that hard up.
Soon have a community full of tomatoes.
Go well with Rice.

il send you a few bags of potatoes.. Plant em. and more will grow.
Its decent weather in china.
So il send you all the orange and apple seeds i Have left after i eat some.

Oh, right! Those silly Mongoloids never developed STATIC AGRICULTURE. Are you listening to yourself?

Pape, that's an interesting point. I imagine the dogs here were being bludgeoned to death to avoid damaging the fur.

[solypsist]

ive seen this video - and it makes me sad on many levels.

[Just A Girl]

"Oh, right! Those silly Mongoloids never developed STATIC AGRICULTURE. Are you listening to yourself?"

Then if they have food.
You have no argument.

To survive you need to eat and drink.
were fully capable of surviving without needing to torture and skin animals for money.

Next thing youl be saying is They should be allowed to kill eliphants to sell there Ivory.

Its a one sided argument.
Money v's Life.
Life wins hands down. No contest.

[Papewaio]

Pamela Anderson is a PETA spokesperson... and she wears sheepskin boots... :laugh4:

[GoreBag]

"Oh, right! Those silly Mongoloids never developed STATIC AGRICULTURE. Are you listening to yourself?"

Then if they have food.
You have no argument.

To survive you need to eat and drink.
were fully capable of surviving without needing to torture and skin animals for money.

Next thing youl be saying is They should be allowed to kill eliphants to sell there Ivory.

Its a one sided argument.
Money v's Life.
Life wins hands down. No contest.

So any man whose job isn't farming isn't...surviving? Is this what I'm supposed to draw from your argument?

[Just A Girl]

Yep In the simpelest form.
Is how the world was made.
You get some seeds...
Plant them in the soil. Watch them grow, They make more seeds. and you can eat the fruit. Or make bread excetera.
AND then you have seeds to plant some more. (AMAZING!)

Then we invented a whole Bunch of things to make this process even easier.
(You dont need anything apart from soil seeds and good weather though)
In time it became so 1 man could do the job of many on a farm With mechanized machinery to help.
This ment that 1 farmer could now Feed MANY people.
but he no longer had MANY workers to feed.

so more food was available, And less people were working the fields (so they wernt geting fed Failing to survive in its most basic fom).

This just ment markets had to be visited to Trade produce. or more recently to Purchase Produce.

There is nothing Stoping any 1 from Planting a few seeds here and there, and harvesting small crops for them selfs.
(Apart from greed that seems to drive the people to inhumane acts in the name of profit)

The fact that they torture animals, for fur is only the tip of the ice berg,
They torture all kinds animals for all types of reasons,
Sharks get it the worst.
With them slicing there fins off and throwing the shark back to drown.

It only takes a second to kill an animal with a bolt gun.
yet you say its easier to torture them like so.

There is No "We haft to torture these animals to survive" Argument.
Its a load of bull.

all done editing.

[GoreBag]

Uh...actually, the world wasn't made by farmers, and humans have been killing animals longer than they've had agriculture.

You gotta find a bolt gun before you could use it, provided that piercing the fur didn't drop its potential price anyway.

Unsurprisingly, you're not making any sense, and that's not just because you're entirely incoherent.

[Just A Girl]

And Thinking torturing Animals for fur is right Makes you respectable?.

Psssst...
They havent been Torturing animals for fur longer than theyve had agriculture.
You are the one who is making no sence.
"neolithic man would definatly kill an animal before trying to skin it, Just wouldnt be safe otherwize And i doubt hed kill Loads of em to sell them on"

Your wrong Simple as that.

Profit vs life = Life wins.

If you cant kill the animal humanley without damaging the fur...
Dont kill it for fur.

Same as. If you cant get the tusks off the eliphant without killing it.
Dont take the damn tusks off.

They dont need the money.
You can just plant food and live like that.

There are Ancient civilisations that were hugley advanced thousands of years before the egyptians started building anything, who had huge agricultural recources.

Evidence of them is fine. and well. just off the coast of india,

The place was flooded in the great flood.
Otherwize known as the end of the ice age.

So Agriculture has Been a Huge part of survival.

Torturing Animalls for fur, Is a inhumane And callas action.
and to do it soley for profit. is just plain wrong.
(inhumane killing of animals was never needed as a part of survival. So you lost that argument 2)

You have no argument other than,

There greedy money grabbers Who dont care How crule they are so long as they get a few £'s

And that is a useless argument.

And resorting to saying I am incoherent. Just proves your loss of this argument as you now change in to insults as you have no rational debate.

All done editing

[GoreBag]

It's hardly useless, hippie. It's how they live. Without being so cruel, callous, despicable subhumans, they'd die, and hey, better a bunch of dogs than me. My point about the agriculture was that if it was so much easier or more sensical, don't you think they'd have tried it already?

I'm not sure where you're going with that Indian argument, but my point remains. In fact, if prehistoric man had never begun to kill animals and eat their flesh, the human brain would never have developed enough for you to have the capacity to fathom such insane logic that maintains that morals are more important than survival.

[Just A Girl]

Your being silly.

Name me 1 other culture that has HAD to abandon agriculture and resort to torturning animals to buy food.??

Look at the size of britain.

AGRICULTURE...
And the mother of all colonies apears.
Your even speaking english now.

Thats AGRICULTURE for you.
Not torturing animals till your so backward that you are prety much a 3rd world country..

Countrys with agriculture as a back bone Are what survive.
Not animal torturing greed bags.

Whats the 1st thing you build In STW/ MTW/ or RTW?

I can guarantee its not the Cat skinning plant that brings in +10 florins a year.

[GoreBag]

Your being silly.

Name me 1 other culture that has HAD to abandon agriculture and resort to torturning animals to buy food.??

Look at the size of britain.

AGRICULTURE...
And the mother of all colonies apears.
Your even speaking english now.

Thats AGRICULTURE for you.

Good, Britain is a good example. Do you remember around what the economy of the Highlands was? Certainly not agriculture, because the land was too poor. They tried anyway, of course, and it got nowhere. The big money up there was, you guessed it, animals. There's where the word 'black mail' comes from - a tribute to buy back your stolen cattle.

[Just A Girl]

Now you are trying to combine Animal farming and Inhumane animal Torture as 1 Process.
when you know there not.

To me that says
You have noticed you have lost this argument
And anything more from you will just be knee jerk reactions.

Ive already been called a Hippy, and incoherent By you due to your inabilay to debate this point and win.

Its is a shame.


One last word though.

If being crule to animals for their fur Is so much better than agriculture..
WTH happend to china.
And why isnt the Scots national Dress a Cat/dog skin cloak.

they do things wrong.
It dosent mean that becous they do it to survive it is right OR even accepatble.

Like i said.
You can plant food.
Not like they dont have enough rice and tea feilds to develop some of the feilds in to proper agricultural centers with diverse products.
and its not asif they have nothing but barren desert as land either.

If they Pulled there fingers out they could have HUGE agricultural resources.

Its easier for them to be babaric and uncivilized is all.
That does not make it right.
And it does not help your argument.

[GoreBag]

Now you are trying to combine Animal farming and Inhumane animal Torture as 1 Process.

It's one process to the people in the video.


To me that says
You have noticed you have lost this argument
And anything more from you will just be knee jerk reactions.

As if your silly moral outrage is less than that.


Ive already been called a Hippy, and incoherent By you due to your inabilay to debate this point and win.

You've been called a hippie and incoherent because I call it as I see it.


One last word though.

If being crule to animals for their fur Is so much better than agriculture..
WTH happend to china.

Rising superpower. You'd better teach your kids to murder animals like a savage and brush up on their Canto.

[Just A Girl]

China is stuck in the sengoku jidai period.
And wont ever wish to leave it.

They are not a super power and aslong as they chose to abandon agriculture and Sell Pelts for profit.
It will be a LONG LONG time before the become any where near being a super power.

Eithiopia Will be a superpower before china At this rate.

[Slyspy]

China is stuck in the sengoku jidai period.
And wont ever wish to leave it.

They are not a super power and aslong as they chose to abandon agriculture and Sell Pelts for profit.
It will be a LONG LONG time before the become any where near being a super power.

Eithiopia Will be a superpower before china At this rate.

Err...right. Here is the thing: we don't like needless brutality and cruelty towards animals here in the West. The demise of agrarian society here as caused animals to be viewed as more than just things. Some, such as PETA take this to extremes. But in China, as in many parts of the world, it is not seen as needless nor cruel and animals are just a commodity. Ranting about it here, or that discredited organization PETA issuing videos, will do nothing to change that. Though it is a shame that so many endangered species are killed for body parts to go in traditional, and useless, Chinese medicine.

PS China may well become a superpower despite their "short-comings", as many see them. Also sengoku jidai is a period of history in Japan.

[Big_John]

wait.. did someone say "fur outage"?? damnit! i better start clubbing these baby otters! supply and demand people!

https://img349.imageshack.us/img349/534/75997400afb26084px.jpg

[GoreBag]

I'm with ya, John. Leave some for me.

[Reenk Roink]

Hmm... I feel strongly about this topic, so I'm going to ignore the fact that it's in the Backroom...

First of all I would like to say that animals are yummy... :grin3:

They are so tasty, and I am very greatful that I have a chance to eat them to on this amazing planet.

Gosh, there are just so many types of tasty animals to eat too...variety is bliss.

But because I eat them and enjoy their flavor and nutrients, I have tremendous respect for animals. Animals, unlike most humans (people like me are the exception...really :smug:), are very useful and beneficial on many aspects. We can use them for work, food, play, and there's many things they do which indirectly benefit us too, like poop (eww...dirty :tongue2:).

So it bothers me when people treat animals like this. And I'm not totally against skinning them. Though I never would wear fur (too...rainbowy), and think that women who do are decadent, I also understand that the industry is livelihood for some. But still, kill them quickly and painlessly, cut their jugular, don't bop them over the heads repeatedly, or dismember them, or inflict any type of torture. If this happened and I was in charge, you could make sure that there would be some beatdowns handed out followed by educational videos.

And I hate hunting for sport... how retarded :shout:.

I feel the same way about trees, what a magnificant wonder they are. If you gotta cut them to build a dwelling, go ahead, but at least plant another one in it's place. And stop building these ridiculously large mansions too...I hope they burn down you stiffs...

[Strike For The South]

If they need this to survive whatever. Frankly I dont see who am i to tell some farmer in China how to get by. Diffrent people diffrent cultures and all that tolerance weve grown so found of.

[Major Robert Dump]

I've seen this before, and get the feeling some of the posters didn't watch it all the way through. If this is the one I'm thinking of, the animals are still alive after skinned, tossed intoa truck, and are rolling around gasping for air and crying, right?

The killing method is done to maintain the value of the fur, not sure of maybe they eat the truckload later or something.

Either way, its stupid, inhumane and a little sadistic. Ringing a chickens neck is no big deal if its for dinner, but this is a little excessive. Really.

Culture, tradition blah. Displays like this are why I feel a little bit of happiness when I see a bull leap into a crowd and at a bull fight and start stomping people. No offense to people with fur, but its totally caveman.

[Leonin Khan]

its not the fact that they kill but how and why they kill. if they use the fur...no problem but kill the animal first and use everything of it. sell its flesh and make food of it (doesnt matter for what actually) its a total waste. like killing elephants for its tusk and leave the rest to rot. or to kill a tiger for a bone and leave the rest to rot...

[Fragony]

If that video is what I think it is I won't risk watching it again, couldn't get it out of my head. If only I could get some quality time with that guy, the medieval torture thread would be a good place to gain some inspiration.

[Slyspy]

Yes. I agree it is a nasty thing to do. But he probably would not understand what the problem is, and people here are generally preaching to the converted.

[Leonin Khan]

who is he?, the guy who does it

[Major Robert Dump]

He make your spicy #5.

Oh well, if this was truly rural China, them man likely has AIDS so joke is on him. Yar.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I think you may be operating under a slight misaprihension here. I believe that the animals have had their heads stoved in, in which case they're brain dead and what you actually see there is the body fitting.

Although that said the dog with its skin off looks quite alive. Done properly you can kill an animal without breaking the skin and be very humane. It only takes one blow to the head, two to make sure, and they're dead; though the heart still beats the brain is mush. They do fit though, which looks terrrible.

Just a Girl, in answer to your question Innuits survive exclusivly through hunting and killing animals and it has been shown that western cerel based foods will often make them quite ill.

As to wearing fur, I'd wear it to keep warm.

As to hunting for sport, as far as I'm concerned if you're hunting vermin to protect your flocks its not really sport and if you eat it its not sport. Most hunting falls into one of those catagories.

[Goofball]

If you think they need to torture and kill animals in order to survive, You have a screw loose.

I dont need to skin a cat to eat or sell its fur.
If i need food i can either Grow it. or buy it.
I find it easier to buy it.
But growing it is no problem either.

Rino-horn.
And tiger penis remidies exetera, Just take way from your argument.
So i thought id mention them.

Hows about whale's No 1s mentioned them..

Or shark fin's And how they catch a shark slash off there fins then just throw the shark back in to the water where it can drown in pain with no way to swim or feed.

Great!

Really though.
Il send you guy some seeds. if your that hard up.
Soon have a community full of tomatoes.
Go well with Rice.

il send you a few bags of potatoes.. Plant em. and more will grow.
Its decent weather in china.
So il send you all the orange and apple seeds i Have left after i eat some.

The visual form
You use when posting your thoughts
Makes me see poems

:book:

[Reenk Roink]

As to hunting for sport, as far as I'm concerned if you're hunting vermin to protect your flocks its not really sport and if you eat it its not sport. Most hunting falls into one of those catagories.

Ermm..come to Michigan mate, you'll see hunting for sport...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Will I? Well hunting just for sport is a waste of time more than anything else IMHO.

[Just A Girl]

The visual form
You use when posting your thoughts
Makes me see poems

:book:

Lol thats funny.
Most see red,
then start insulting me.

[Craterus]

How about we stand on their heads, skin them alive and then leave them to die? That should solve their hunger problem.

[Redleg]

Lol thats funny.
Most see red,
then start insulting me.

A situation of the pot calling the kettle black.:no:

[Spino]

Nasty video. Reminds me of a video which made the rounds on the internet a few years ago; where some east Asian wacked a few kittens on the head with a knife and proceeded to slice and dice them for a quick drop into a wok and into a few bowls with rice & veggies... yummy. People went positively ballistic over that one.

This particular video serves as a wonderful counterpoint to 'cross cultural understanding'. I believe killing animals purely for their fur or in the name of some ridiculous, homeopathic nonsense is a terrible waste but so long as they're killed swiftly and humanely I guess I don't have much of a problem with it. Consider it one of the occupational hazards of being born lower in the food chain.

On the other hand I could care less about bullfighting or the running of the bulls. Cattle have been bred by man solely for the purpose of food and goods so it's not as if they're going to waste. As to bullfighting those bulls are bred and selected for their aggressiveness so they put on a good show. On the other hand I'm also happy so long as matadors get the shaf... err, horn every once in awhile and crowds still become 'unwilling participants'.

This video also reminds me of that idiotic hunter adage about not shooting animals in the brain because it spoils the meat. I didn't realize the brain had time to release a flurry of harmful meat spoiling hormones into the bloodstream as it's being blown all over the place in a fraction of a second. Then there is that equally warped practice of slaughtering pigs by stabbing them in the heart with a long steel pole instead of simply cutting their throats. However I think that method of slaughter went out of style in southern europe decades ago.

[Reenk Roink]

Will I? Well hunting just for sport is a waste of time more than anything else IMHO.

Yeah, you will, and you're right about it being a waste of time too...

Still, there are other things to see like snow, and lakes, and Red Wings :2thumbsup:.