Picts, anyone?

[Masy]

Any chance of having the picts represented in EB?, they were a pretty major people and annoyed the Romans a fair bit, and i would enjoy having them in Caledonia to rival the casse.

[Ranika]

Picts didn't exist until a while after the end of the game, so no. The other major power in Britain would probably be the Brigantes anyway; they were a major opposition to Rome in Britain quite before the Picts, having regained their kingdom from Roman dominion and held it for a while.

[Masy]

Although the first historical reference to the Picts is later than EB, surely a similiar people dwelt there before the romans showed up? I believe an inclusion of another faction in Britain would be excellent, be it Celts or the Brigantes you mentioned. It would be great to play an early "Scottish" people (i mean simply that they live in what is now Scotland) , and it would add a more difficult element to the Casse campaign, who have quite an easy time of it against provinces of non- ambitious Eleutheroi.

[Ano2]

Try it on vh and you will see the rebels are quite amibitious :P

[Masy]

I have played through the casse several times on vh/m (my battle tactics are lacking) and though they do invade more often then not, the Eleutheroi are not as big a challenge as a fully fledged faction would be. Also the British Isles are the most ace place on the campaign map, and i just feel they are under- developed.

[Ludens]

Any chance of having the picts represented in EB?, they were a pretty major people and annoyed the Romans a fair bit, and i would enjoy having them in Caledonia to rival the casse.
The problem is that, although the current Caledonian Eleutheroi are nowhere near as troublesome as the real Caledonii were, there is very little known about the people that lived in the region around this time. AFAIK we don't even know how they called themselves. What we do know is that they were not organized enough to expand beyond occasional raids, and not unified enough to form a nation. Turning them into a faction is even less realistic than the unified Briton faction of vanilla R:TW.

Personnaly, I don't think providing a speed-bump for the Casse is important enough to spend another faction slot to.

[Ranika]

The problem is that, although the current Caledonian Eleutheroi are nowhere near as troublesome as the real Caledonii were, there is very little known about the people that lived in the region around this time. AFAIK we don't even know how they called themselves. What we do know is that they were not organized enough to expand beyond occasional raids, and not unified enough to form a nation. Turning them into a faction is even less realistic than the unified Briton faction of vanilla R:TW.

Personnaly, I don't think providing a speed-bump for the Casse is important enough to spend another faction slot to.

I agree here. We actually considered replacing the Casse with the Belgae at a time, but then didn't for whatever reason, but really, a 'speed bump' is really quite unnecessary. Also, I don't understand:


Although the first historical reference to the Picts is later than EB, surely a similiar people dwelt there before the romans showed up? I believe an inclusion of another faction in Britain would be excellent, be it Celts or the Brigantes you mentioned. It would be great to play an early "Scottish" people (i mean simply that they live in what is now Scotland) , and it would add a more difficult element to the Casse campaign, who have quite an easy time of it against provinces of non- ambitious Eleutheroi.

Picts simply didn't exist yet. There were Caledonians, but they were various people, and far too disunified. The Casse, by comparison, brought much of Britain under their control by extending a form of vassalage over most of the tribes south of the Brigantes, with whom they allied. Also, Brigantes are Celts, which confuses me in your statement. They formed a tribal kingdom north of Corieltauvae confederation (itself likely a vassal of the Catuvellauni, since Caratacus fled there for a while, before to Cambria, and then to Brigantia, which was allied to Catuvellaunia, but was betrayed by the queen Cartimandau, who arrested him and handed him over to the Romans).

Also, I've seen games where the Casse don't really expand that quickly in Britain, and a realistic opposition if we could have one would be the Brigantes, but even they don't really do much. The Casse eventually become the Catuvellauni and their kings are recognized as the kings of the Britons for some time. The Brigantes don't really move, and the Caledonians don't make themselves a major point until after the end of EB's game period when the Picts come about. The Brigantes, even then, would be of great importance to include if it's before the reign of Venetius (who overthrew Cartimandau with great popular support, when it turned out she had been having an affair with his shield-bearer, and was the last king of the region before the Romans conquered it, though he died while still in power, with only a slight reduction in his lands in the southwest). I must insist that you at least refer to the inhabitants of Caledonia in this period as the Caledonians or Caledonii; Pict is right out and a later term, and Picts will not be in game in any respect (though we do have a Caledonian unit {needs reskinned still I think}, though Caledonia will otherwise have midland British units probably, and generic British cav).

[the_handsome_viking]

Should Caledonian's be cheaper in that town in Scotland? I was just looking at the prices of them today, and I thought they were a bit much.

Giving them their own faction might be the best way to represent them, unless you can make a rebel unit spawn point that churns out armies every now and then from a forest.

Also what will the Caledonian infantry be reskinned to look like?

[QwertyMIDX]

We don't have factions to throw around on a people we know very little about, and did nothing until of major significance after our time frame.

[Masy]

Fair enough, just wishfull thinking really. When i spoke of wanting picts i really just meant that i would like to see another faction in Britain. However, i realise we don't know as much about British Isles peoples as we do for other areas, Greece being the main example (3 factions in Greece, lucky bastards).

[Ranika]

Fair enough, just wishfull thinking really. When i spoke of wanting picts i really just meant that i would like to see another faction in Britain. However, i realise we don't know as much about British Isles peoples as we do for other areas, Greece being the main example (3 factions in Greece, lucky bastards).

It's not a matter of not knowing enough. If we had faction space, we could reasonably add Brigantes, since we know plenty about them and they were a major power in Britain. However, of the powers in Britain, only the Casse had any real world stage presence (as traders of tin and metalwork over a wide area; others had trade relations, but not nearly so lucrative). It's a matter of a lack of importance. No other faction in the isles seems to make any major bid at conquest or expansion in the island (the Brigantes might have, but were mostly unsuccessful; however, the number of vassals that Brigantia had under Cartimandua and Venetius implies they had maybe tried to expand at one point, but didn't go far). There's really just no need for another faction there, when other factions are far more important. There was real consideration to not have any British faction at all, so a second one is simply not going to happen. It's not meant in a snide way or anything, it's just impossible with these constraints.

More realistic, in a move to 1.5, is something in eastern Europe or the steppe, or down in Arabia. Western Europe has enough factions as it is, and we won't spend one for the sake of a stumbling block for the most minor of the group.

[Masy]

NO BRITISH FACTION AT ALL!!!! I'M SO HORRIFIED I'M GOING TO FLAME ALL OVER MY SCREEN. But thanks for the info, great game anyways.

[Ranika]

NO BRITISH FACTION AT ALL!!!! I'M SO HORRIFIED I'M GOING TO FLAME ALL OVER MY SCREEN. But thanks for the info, great game anyways.

What?

We still have and are keeping one. I didn't say we dropped it, just, that we considered it seriously for quite a while. However, we are keeping one, and that's all.

[Masy]

Oh good, sorry i misread your post. But wouldn't Britain Total War be quite a thing...

[Ludens]

Oh good, sorry i misread your post. But wouldn't Britain Total War be quite a thing...
Take your pick:
Brittania Total War: The Roman Invasion (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=111)
Arthurian Total War (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=107)

[Masy]

Hey thanks ludens, very cool mods there. Pale next to EB though.