View Full Version : The Cassae Battle Line - A few questions (Possible Spoilers?)
So I've been trucking along in my Cassae campaign, securing the main island of Great Britain. I had all of southern Britain conquered, the only thing left on the main island was Attuaca.
A few times during this war I'd been attacked by Caledonian Skirmishers, and I hadn't thought much of it.
I was looking to see what mercenaries were available near Attuaca, and I picked up some of these guys. Caledonian Rhyfelwyr. I had five units in total.
Let me give some backround on my army up until this point. To retain a strong economy, I never had more then 1300-1600 men in my main army at once, seeing as how I never was on the defensive (Except for those backstabbing rebel armies that attacked me early on). It was primarily composed of six units of Boatras, plus one or two units of Cymwyr (SP?) and a bribed unit of Kluddargos to add some oomph and stabilize the line at crucial points.
I have to say, I was truly impressed with Boatras. I was expecting a feeble force that would break easily when flanked or losing, like other barbarian infantry I had seen. These guys are rock steady, even with a lower command star general. They never failed to decimate the opposition with their javelins, and once in melee they always held their own. I can't recall ever losing more then 50 per unit in any given battle (at Huge unit size), with the average losses in the teens and twenties. However, they were horrible flankers, moving rather slowly and having no charge bonus.
So here I was, sitting in front of Attacua. I look in my mercenary window, and I see 5 units of these Rhyfelwyr units available. I say what the hell, I'll use them as fodder for the attack (At this point my Boatroas had become quite experienced, with either 3 copper or 1 silver chevron, so I wanted to preserve them some). Because of my strong economy, I had enough saved up to recruit all of them.
I have to say, wow. I remembered those skirmishers being remarkably tough when they attacked my capital, but this took the cake. They took a huge beating, and never wavered once, even though they were fighting their mirrors who were more experienced and better equipped. In addition to being rock-solid, they had a much larger supply of javelins to throw at the beginning of the fight, in addition to skirmishing mode, fast movement, and a huge charge bonus.
I decided to run some tests, putting a unit of Boatroas agianst a unit of Rhyfelwyr. I gave them each three copper chevrons and copper weapons and armor.
To say I was surprised was an understatement. When I let each unit get one throw of javelins in, the Rhyfelwyr won with an average of 20 men each (I was using 50 man units for the tests). When I let the Rhyfelwyr use all of their javelins, and the Boatroas use all of their javelins, the Rhyfelwyr won with usually around 35-40 men. When I let the RHyfelwyr use their skirmish mode, I could utterly decimate the Boatroas, usually winning with most of the unit intact.
This leads me to my primary question (wow, that took a while to get here). Which unit would be the best building block for my army? The Boatroas have served me well, but these guys are fast, incredibly hard to rout, and they have much stronger damage potential.
If I should keep the Boatroas, would it be better to keep some of these Rhyfelwyr around to put on my flanks, either to hold off calvary charges or to circle around and flank?
I've got a few other miscellaneous Cassae questions I've been wondering about.
What's the point of Chariots? I've tried using them like I would normal calvary, and they got demolished by infantry. I've tried using them as light calvary to run down routers, they were too slow to catch most of them, and to spread out to do much damage when they did catch them. I've tried using them to chase down skirmishers, and the skirmishers kicked my general's ass :dizzy2:
When can I get Kluddargos available through my towns? The only unit I have currently I bribed from a rebel army.
Will I ever get any calvary?
What is the best unit to have as the staple of my battle line, beyond Boatroas and Rhyfelwyr?
Thanks guys, I know this was kinda long :\
P.S. One quick question I forgot about - What does the Conquerer of Caledonia trait do? My general picked it up after the battle in Attuaca
LordElrond
02-19-2006, 23:15
Well i'm able to answer one of your questions easily. The chariots are very weak if not used properly. It seems as though their best use is to charge through the enemy battle line closely followed by infantry. the chariots are great at disrupting their formations allowing your infantry to take advantage. Never let them stop moving amongst enemies, they will most certainly die. Always run them through. Hope this helps.
LE
GodEmperorLeto
02-20-2006, 03:27
When can I get Kluddargos available through my towns? The only unit I have currently I bribed from a rebel army.
Will I ever get any calvary?
Regarding cavalry--but I think someone mentioned in an earlier thread that either Britons don't get any cav unless it is merc, or they get ass cavalry.
The other thing I've heard is that much of the recruiting business is unfinished. Italy's got some major work to be done. I heard they are adding units, and Samnites are going to be recruitable in central and southern Italy soon. So, it may not be possible to recruit Kluddargos yet, until the next version of EB.
Ambiorix
02-20-2006, 03:37
I think that you are able to recruit one type of heavy cavalry (the Bhrinten or something), but are not supposed to, but are supposed to be able to recruit some mediocre light or skirmishing cavalry but are not able to. I think both of these things will be fixed.
Reverend Joe
02-20-2006, 04:25
This leads me to my primary question (wow, that took a while to get here). Which unit would be the best building block for my army? The Boatroas have served me well, but these guys are fast, incredibly hard to rout, and they have much stronger damage potential.
If I should keep the Boatroas, would it be better to keep some of these Rhyfelwyr around to put on my flanks, either to hold off calvary charges or to circle around and flank?
I've got a few other miscellaneous Cassae questions I've been wondering about.
What's the point of Chariots? I've tried using them like I would normal calvary, and they got demolished by infantry. I've tried using them as light calvary to run down routers, they were too slow to catch most of them, and to spread out to do much damage when they did catch them. I've tried using them to chase down skirmishers, and the skirmishers kicked my general's ass :dizzy2:
When can I get Kluddargos available through my towns? The only unit I have currently I bribed from a rebel army.
Will I ever get any calvary?
What is the best unit to have as the staple of my battle line, beyond Boatroas and Rhyfelwyr?
Thanks guys, I know this was kinda long :\
P.S. One quick question I forgot about - What does the Conquerer of Caledonia trait do? My general picked it up after the battle in Attuaca
I will answer what I can, bt my knowledge is based on hearsay and and outdated version of EB that I was playing back in December.
Never use mercenaries as your primary unit of infantry. They create a dependance on soldiers that cannot be retrained, and if the mercenary pool dries up, you lose access to reinforcements. I learned that lesson the hard way, long ago, playing as Sicily in Medeival TW: I created a far-flung empire, powerful but dependant on mercenaries; eventually, when I lost most of them in several pitch-battles with the invading Mongols, my empire proved brittle, as I had no way of replacing the armies I had lost.
Charitos are supposed to ride straight through the ranks of the enemy infantry; scares the hell out of them. Once they are disrupted, send in your main force of infantry and break them.
Yes, you should get some light cavalry. You can also recruit one kind of heavy cavalry, but they are supposed to be located in Gaul (but take advantage of this anyway, because the Casse have it a bit unfair at the moment as they lack some cruical soldiers. Until the Britons are finished, they will be tough going.)
The Rhyfelwyr are recruitable in Attuaca in the town, so I would be able to train them.
Is there another Casse unit that would be more effective as my main infantry force than either Boatroas or Rhyfelwyr? I fought some spearmen today in Ireland that looked pretty tough, but they're much less mobile and don't have a javelin attack, so I'm not sure how to quantify them.
The spearmen in Ireland need fixed; they're supposed to have javelins and will be redone. Also, British units are generally low morale. Probably one of the best investments you can make is to recruit Cwmyr once capturing a midland province (there's a southern British equivalent in works currently). Certain units, like Cwmyr, and chariots, greatly improve allied morale.
With chariots, once you've disrupted the line successfully, bring them around behind your soldiers. They raise allied morale so much that your men won't break unless a real slaughter is going on, and chariots also lower enemy morale. Units like Cwmyr can be used to fight with their superior stats, but if placed behind your charging line, act like chariots (but don't lower enemy morale); however, if you let them fire at will, they'll throw their javelins into the enemy, though you risk hurting your own soldiers.
As for cavalry, the Brihentin are a mistake; not supposed to be available in Britain. However, there will be skirmishing cavalry in Britain soon, and there will be cavalry in Ireland to get. There will be continental cavalry they can get too; the best statwise will be in one of the Belgic provinces (a Remi unit that should be in one of the forthcoming builds).
The Casse are an armor light faction, but they've got some good units being worked on. They'll be able to get some axes later on (axes ignore half the armor of an enemy), their skirmishing cavalry, their new chariots aren't in yet, some Gallic spearmen in the southwest, some remade stuff, etc.
the_handsome_viking
02-20-2006, 10:03
I've had a similar experience while playing the Casse.
I've been really tempted to make an army of Rhyfelwyr simply due to the fact that they are so vicious in a fight.
Most of my army currently has been Boatroas with three units of heavy Celtic cavarly(which by the way are recruitable in the city on the south eastern tip of Britain, Vack07) I'm not really sure if I should try and go with more spearmen instead of swordsmen, but the Boatroas just seem so very...Celtic, the epic image of a guy in checkered trousers, with a cape, a sturdy shield and a longsword with dyed, spiked up, blonde hair just looks too cool, and because of this, gets recruited more...heh.
The Gaeroas are better with their javelins, I believe, and more useful when fighting on the continent in some ways, because of the presence of cavalry. They also have an easier time killing chariots, and hold in a line better. The idea is to use Gaeroas to screen (they're cheaper to replace to, so more losses with them is less of a problem), and circle your Botroas around to flank the enemy, using everything else as support, pretty much. Skirmishers should be in soon, to screen ahead of all of them, and chariots and elites have already had their purpose explained.
That's a good tactic Ran, but I'm looking at the units, and wouldn't Rhyfelwyr be much better for flanking? THey get a huge charge bonus, they're faster moving, better stamina, much higher morale, and they have more javelins to toss before the charge.
That's a good tactic Ran, but I'm looking at the units, and wouldn't Rhyfelwyr be much better for flanking? THey get a huge charge bonus, they're faster moving, better stamina, much higher morale, and they have more javelins to toss before the charge.
They only come from a single province, their discipline is much poorer, and they actually were supposed to be toned down a bit, and will be, so no, the Botroas are a superior unit, or will be. Gaeroas should be used to fight in front. Also, why are they still called Rhyfelwyr? Damn placeholder names, no one cleans them up.
At this point in time though, does discipline really outway the charge bonus, extra ranged attacks, movement speed, and moral bonuses that Rhyfelwyr have? What does the discipline really give you for a flanking unit? Sorry, I don't mean to sound nasty :) I'm just curious, because currently my army is getting attacked by Aedui and Sweboz, they're pinned on a bridge, and I need all the help I can get!
On a side note - How're the hammer troops from Ireland? I was looking at their stats, and they seemed on par with Kluddargos, with half the up keep. Would they be a good unit to have to flank with? They've got roughly the same charge bonus as RHyfelwyr, but they have much better stats while actually fighting.
galathas
02-20-2006, 20:57
I only use the hammerwielders against heavy cav and heavy infantry. They die to easy to be wasted as normal flankers. I all my briton armies i have at least one of those hammer units to pound the crap out sweboz ferulharjoz, equites singulares and princeps and triarii. Actually i found they can only be used when most of the enemy battleline is already engaged. Then i run them around wihcih is quite simple due to their speed and small unit size. Warcry and off they go into the back of the heaviest troops on the field. They are especially usefull when fighting heavily armoured unit with a high experience. The ferulharjoz of the sweboz can wipe out several units espiecially when they are expericened. But if you are able to pin them with cheap meat you can run those irish boys in their back and save a lot of your good men.
I only use the hammerwielders against heavy cav and heavy infantry. They die to easy to be wasted as normal flankers. I all my briton armies i have at least one of those hammer units to pound the crap out sweboz ferulharjoz, equites singulares and princeps and triarii. Actually i found they can only be used when most of the enemy battleline is already engaged. Then i run them around wihcih is quite simple due to their speed and small unit size. Warcry and off they go into the back of the heaviest troops on the field. They are especially usefull when fighting heavily armoured unit with a high experience. The ferulharjoz of the sweboz can wipe out several units espiecially when they are expericened. But if you are able to pin them with cheap meat you can run those irish boys in their back and save a lot of your good men.
Textbook aplication of the Ordmhornaghts (hammertroops). They have armour piercing ability so that's absolutely good thinking.
Ok, so let me put this army up for critique -
X6 Batarcii
X6 Rhyfelwyr
X2 Crymwyr
X1 Kluddargos
X2 Ordmhornaghts
X2 Socartes? (Archers)
X1 General
With my infantry being so mobile, and having such a limited source, and with it's cost, I decided to not train any cavalry. The total upkeep for this army settles at around 6000, which is [I]barely[I] within my economic reach. Would it be smarter to simply recruit x12 Rhyfelwyr? The difference is about 2 armor, but the upkeep is 70 Mnai less. It'd put a strain on my Attuaca population though.
Would Gaeros be better than the Batarcii? The Batarcii technically has better stats, however, it has 40 less men per unit.
Edit - The formation would work out as follows:
I'd have a long line of Batarcii, relatively thin as my main battle line. On the wings I'd have 3 Rhyfelwyr on each side, backed by a Cymwyr, with a line of Hammermen behind them, in reserve if they're needed. The two wings of Rhyfelwyr would be slightly behind the main spearwall. I could bend the spearwall in a U shape, if I was worried about being flanked. It'd be a simple matter to move my Rhyfelwyr and Cymwyr to a flanking position once they are engaged with the main line of spears.
X2 Socartes? (Archers)
I thinks it's pretty safe to say that socrates is not, and wil never be, a Unit in EB....
unless it'll be some druid-like figure with the power to persuade the enemy not to fight....
Malrubius
02-21-2006, 12:00
Socrates did fight in 3 battles, displaying bravery, and also managed to survive the rout at Delium. Probably doesn't qualify him for his own unit, though, as well as being over a hundred years before our mod's start date. ~;)
He probably meant Sotaroas, though. ~;)
Thought I wrote SocaRtes :|
Here's some advice. Don't rely too much on your island troops (especially the Atuaca-only Rhyfelwyr) if you have any plans of invading the mainland. You won't be able to train or retrain any one of these troops until you get a lot more inland than comfortable.
On the western continental coast and the surrounding areas, what you'll get are Milnaht, Mori Gaesum, Soatroas, Calawre, Ryecalawre and Leuce Epos. Don't sound familiar? Indeed. If you stick to the native Caledonian troops, it will be logistical hell transporting back and forth between the mainland and the island.
After conquering the islands and launching the initial invasion, it'd be wise to disband most of your army save for an adequate force for rebel patrol back home.
Here's the makeup of my main army, with which I conquered all of Western Europe along with the Iberian peninsula, and into Italy. After generating enough income, I now have two of these armies. I'd recommend it highly ~D .
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/8656/cassearmy7tj.jpg
Here's the formation I deploy in.
https://img54.imageshack.us/img54/5222/cassearmyformation8rt.th.jpg (https://img54.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cassearmyformation8rt.jpg)
In my current campaign, I've been going on a few decades of peace and prosperity. To shake things up a bit, I've put together a nice army reminiscent of the old days on the island, mixed with some of the newer troops.
https://img158.imageshack.us/img158/4628/casseinvasionforce4qu.jpg
This nice little force has been sent on an expedition halfway across the (known) world to Turkey, where the remnants of the Gauls are to be dealt with. Fun stuff, indeed.
-EDIT-
Imageshack didn't give the option of thumbnailing those troop pics. Could a mod possibly do that? I don't know how else. I hate to expand the page and whatnot.
That looks like a great army, however, I can't train a single unit you listed, excepting the archers and cavalry. When do you get access to these tougher units? I've got my infastructure built up in several cities as far as it will go, I believe, but I don't have the heavy infantry, Kluddargos, or such.
As an edit - Do you find the archers useful at all? I've never seen them be much, if any use, compared to another melee unit, especially with the access Casse has to faster moving infantry, thus negating most skirmishers.
Reverend Joe
02-23-2006, 00:27
To the second point: I know that the Gauls used archers more for irritation than solid effect, but I forget why... probably a lack of a strong tradition of archery, due to their heavy use of javelins. No idea how much this applies to the Casse, but I would be willing to bet the same concept applies; however, the archers surely have a demoralising effect on the enemy- after all, showers of arrows coming from the enemy line aren't exactly encouraging.
To be honest, I have the archers in mainly for variety and realism I suppose. I didn't use to have them in earlier armies. I suppopse it won't hurt to have a unit or two of them. After they've depleted their arrows, they bust out some pretty cool long spears with the new animations... I know probably not the best reason to have them around, but hell, they're cheap and somewhat useful. Preference really.
As for the Kluddargos, I'm assuming they're only available after 107 B.C. the current set date for Casse reforms. I think that's actually the only unit so far that's new after the reforms. Not something to hold your breath for as they're only available on the main island I think.
Other than that, as I mentioned, these are the units you will see once you get off the islands. You'll need homeland govt's for the Calawre (with the bronze scale armor) and expansion govt's for the Mori Gaesum (the phalanx unit). And of course the necessary level of military buildings. Before you get to these though, you'll probably be using the Milnaht as more of a main force. Ah, I loved those guys, but they're only along and around the western coast and it's a hassle traveling so far to retrain.
So the units you describe are only availible in Gaul?
My biggest problem now is simply getting off the isles :| Currently rome is eating up Averni territory like cookie monster and the Aedui are capitolizing. I can't land an army without being attacked by two full stacks with a half dozen units of Gaesatae with 3 silver chevrons! I always manage to win, but by that time my forces are usually crippled to the extent I can't successfully besiege a city, so I'm forced to retreat to save my general.
Speaking of generals - has anyone else had serious problems with offspring? My second generation (four men in all) have had between them a grand total of one child. Only one of these generals has been out campaigning as well. I'm getting quite worried about my line continuing, as my second generation is now well into their 30s and early 40s.
Offspring shouldn't be a huge concern. I think EB has toned down, or even eliminated in the case of some factions, any offspring to make it more dependent on adoption and heroic captains. If your Generals don't have kids, you'll eventually get adoption offers.
But as far as getting off the island, I'd say don't rush. Stabalize your home islands fully, get a nice economy rolling, then retrain and train a nice army to invade. You could look into garnering some alliances before the invasion though. See if you can single out a weakened faction by allying yourself with the rest of the neighbors then attacking. That also depends on whose allied with who at that point. Try to join up with the major allied forces and join the gang-up on whoever is left out.
Again, the best thing you can do is take your time before getting off the island. It sounds like Rome is getting pretty powerful, so if you could sway them to your side in an alliance, perhaps you can take advantage of the situation in Gaul. Weigh your options, develop some diplomacy and stabalize the situation at home before launching a full-scale invasion.
Most of my citieso n the main island are tier three, with all the economic buildings, working mostly on fluff public order buildings. The main contention currently in Gaul is between Aedui and Rome, but it hasn't come to open war.It seems mostly to be a race to find out who can conquer the Averni fastest, but to be fair, they're putting up a hell of a fight. The Averni are holding onto southern Gaul with bulldog like tenacity, using the rivers in an excellent defense.
The Aedui have Northern and Western Gaul. Rome has driven a spike north through the Alps, conquering a central Gaul territory.
My main worry now is that if I don't act quickly, Rome will conquer most of Gaul, and instead of fellow barbarians I'll be fighting the sharpened spears of 3 gold chevron Triarii, without the nice units you've got in your army :| The Sweboz are mostly a non-factor, they're expanding mostly to the south east, towards Greece. Iberia is still locked in a death struggle with Carthage, but their military strength is much stronger than the Aedui, from what it appears like on my Stats graph.
There seems to be no territory to expand to at this point. Which coastal provence of Gaul do you think is most defensible, either in terms of ambushes or river crossings? I suppose it's possible to raise up a second army, though it would cripple my economy, and there have been massive uprisings of bandits on my home territories. I'm loving this though :) This is easily the hardest any faction has been this late in the game for me, in Vanilla RTW after 250 it was pretty much over, I'd have secured most of my home territory with enough income and population to create massive amounts of troops.
One last side question - Do you have any particular tricks or good locations for ambushes? They seem like a great defense tactic to me, considering the enemy is more experianced and with equal or greater quality troops, a situation like a siege or a bridge crossing has proven to be quite costful to me, in terms of men.
LorDBulA
02-23-2006, 07:36
Yep ambushes are great. When fighting as gatae i manege to ambush and massacre full roman legion. :laugh4:
Just park your army in woodland and it will prepare to ambush imidietly (general will knee).
What I'd do is hold out longer. Rome indeed seems like a threat, but what is their position with the Auedi? If they are allied with them, they won't be likely to attack them while still at war with the Arverni. However, this will make it almost impossible for you to ally yourself with Rome and take out the Auedi. If they are not allied with them, it's still possible they won't attack them while at war with the Arverni. Basically, the longer the Arverni hold out, the more time you have to build up economy and troops.
Are there absolutely no rebel provinces along the coast? If not, your only option is to hit the Auedi with everything you've got, leaving a buffer zone between yourslef and Rome in the process. Even if their not allied with you, they won't attack if you're not sharing a border. If you're feeling frisky, you could always go further north and take some Sweboz territory to get you started. Once you've got a town or two there, make your way down south. This might prove more difficult than necessary however if a peace cannot be reached soon. Those bastards are relentless.
The first province I invaded was the one just to the south of the southern tip of Britain. It worked out nicely. That's where you'll have access to Milnaht for the first time. I wouldn't recommend buidling up a second army from the islands just yet. Maybe half an army, leaving room for the newer troops once you've invaded with your main force. 5 Boatroas and 5 Mala Gaeroas ought to do. Then you can add 5 Milnaht and some cavalry or archers perhaps and you've got yourself a supporting army. This will indeed drain your economy fast if you don't take plenty of towns and plenty of loot and if you haven't built up enough of an economy at home in the first place.
Unfortunately, I'm not much in the way of ambushes or river crossings. I've never actually even launched an ambush. I assume you could send in spies and check out the terrain, base your plans on that. I found sacking cities to be a great way of getting a lot of cash, fast, not to mention crippling the enemies frontline. After you take 2-3 cities and establish stable borders, you might want to look into that if the opportunity presents itself. After you sack a city, leave one cheap unit in there so that when the enemy tries to retake it, they'll have to spend some time sieging, giving you the opportunity to build up your newly conquered cities and take a breath. Make sure to destroy every last possible destroyable building. Don't worry about retaking the city and having to rebuild yourself. If you're not in a rush, the AI will do that for you by the time you retake the city. If you do have plans to retake the city shortly, disregard this paragraph :smile: .
David_VI
02-24-2006, 19:57
Very helpful thread:)
Subscribing!
And thanks wonderland!
SpawnOfEbil
02-24-2006, 20:19
Casse general's units are really, really, really bad. If you charge them through a unit, and that unit suddenly decides to target your general, say goodbye to at least 2 chariots. I was assaulting Wales, I charged my general through their ranks, cue cutscreen announcing my general's death. :wall:
I usually just walk them just behind my line to bolster my morale and get the enemies' morale down, although if you constantly do this your general may just get the 'Hates Blood' trait, if it's anything like vanilla RTW.
I agree that the Casse general units have a high chance of dying in any engagement, but that is far from them being really, really, really bad.
they can murder any cavalry you put them up against. Even outnumbered 2 to 1 against Brihentin, I think you could rout the enemy general without losing any.
They also devastate enemy morale and are the only way to win as Casse. You must break the enemy lines.
I think it just takes more careful use of the Chariots and not being afraid of losing some minor family members every once in a while.
The problem is I've got so few offspring I don't have any minor family members.
With a few brilliant military victories, such as overcoming 600 gesatae, supported by about 1500 regular vanilla infantry with a third of a stack of Caledonian Rhyfelwyr and a Cymwyr, I've managed to secure a toehold in the provence south of Briton. My main army has crushed 6 or 7 full stacks since landing, in three successive battles. Using mercenaries and hastily recruited infantry at the city I've been able to hold them off. I'm moving north currently, as I see a large stronghold there that I hope to subjugate. It's garrisoned by a full stack, I hope by drawing them into a sallying battle after a short siege I'll be able to beat them and the troops they have in the north.
The main reason I'm going after such a hard target, is that if you look at the geography of northern Gaul, you notice a river defending the southern and western flank of the provence I've conquered. With my eastern flank secured, I'll be in a position to bleed the Aedui dry over the river crossing there, with armies positioned to ambush any attackers through the forests to the east.
I glanced at the diplomacy tab, and the Arverni have become Rome's protectorate. This usually means they're only a few turns from destruction, and Rome is simply milking them for all that they can. If it turns out in that direction, I would not be surprised to see the Romans attack the Aedui while they're busy dealing with me. This puts me in a position to exploit their weakness by moving over the alps and securing their lines of reinforcement, cutting them in half. This would let the Aedui deal with the troops in southern Gaul, while I will be able to secure the rich Northern Italy provences. I'd be ready to exploit any oppertunity or weakness from either faction.
I've got 3 or 4 units of Milnaht, 6 units of Caledonian Rhyfelwyr (I started with 12, I sent 6 units off with a Cymwyr to secure the southern forests, they've been fighting there desperately since. Of the 700 men I sent to the southern forest, 300 are left, but they're holding, barely. The Rhyfelwyr are able to take out full stacks of enemy lower quality infantry, even if they're stiffened with a few Gaesatae.) 2 units of cavalry, and then mixed mercenaries filling out the rest of my army, with a few champion units thrown in for good measure.
The flat out truth is that the large majority of Gaullic troops are higher quality than mine. My only strength is my guerilla style of warfare, using ambushes and hit and run tactics to waste away the enemy. I routinely withdraw my troops manually from battle after they inflict a large number of casualties before they become bogged down in a prolong struggle to maintain my troops while whittiling down the Aedui's armies.
When I looked at the faction comparison screen, though, I was severely disheartened. In the year and a half or so I've been on Gaul, I've easily crushed several thousand Gaullic troops. I was expecting them to take at least a small military hit. They've gone up roughly 20%. I fear that in the next 2 or 3 years I'm going to be faced with wave after wave of gigantic Gaullic armies until they wear down my troop production capacity, until I'm pushed off the mainland agian.
My main army has been attacked by two or three full stacks at a time, once twice in the same turn.
Dear god I hope I can keep this up.
I have actually played my Casse campaign quite a bit more since my last post. I am in nearly the same situation as you except I chose to invade Sweden first. However, there is a land bridge there into Denmark and the Sweboz hordes started pouring through. I have been fighting them for about 30 years now and I have only managed to take three provinces after replacing my only army 4 times. The up side is that I can't train any Casse units over there, so I have gotten to know the lower level Germanic ones pretty well.
After I finally made some headway and took two provinces in a row, I checked the diplomacy screen to find out that the Sweboz have the Sauromatae as protectorates and the Romans have the Arvernii as protectorates. I decided to cheat and turn off fog of war. I found that the Romans had advanced through all of Gaul and were systematically crushing the remains of the Aedui. Also, the Sweboz have spread along the entire lenght of the Danube and invaded much Getai territory. What I thought was the bulk of their land was just the western portion. I quit after after Rome broke their alliance with me and is laid seige to one of my new Towns. I don't think that I will be able to fight them on two fronts.
I think I am going to use the patch as an excuse to not play that one anymore. Thank God it is not save game compatible.
I'm loving your style of play. Actually using the hit-and-run tactics that are supposed to be used for the Casse. Beautiful.
It's garrisoned by a full stack, I hope by drawing them into a sallying battle after a short siege I'll be able to beat them and the troops they have in the north.
You're unlikely to get a short siege unless another army comes to relieve them. From my experience, the besieged army will remain in the city until the last turn without outside assistance.
With my eastern flank secured, I'll be in a position to bleed the Aedui dry over the river crossing there, with armies positioned to ambush any attackers through the forests to the east.
This would be a sound military strategy... in real life perhaps. However in EB, there is currently a 'bug' that gives the AI 50,000 mnai I believe everytime they're short a certain amount. What this means is, you will never bleed them dry. I fought a defensive war at some point against the Roman myself earlier on with the same belief. Believe you me, you'll be the only one bleeding and dry after a few bitter years. This is issue is supposed to be fixed in the patch though so hopefully such tactics will be viable in the future. As for now, your best bet is an offensive strategy of city-sacking along your borders.
I glanced at the diplomacy tab, and the Arverni have become Rome's protectorate. This usually means they're only a few turns from destruction, and Rome is simply milking them for all that they can.
Actually what happens more often than not is that the protectorate faction will stick around longer than they should have on their own. Had they remained independent and weak, they would have been wiped out. But in my campaign, there are a bunch of factions with only one or two provinces that are still around because they are another's protectorate.
When I looked at the faction comparison screen, though, I was severely disheartened. In the year and a half or so I've been on Gaul, I've easily crushed several thousand Gaullic troops. I was expecting them to take at least a small military hit. They've gone up roughly 20%. I fear that in the next 2 or 3 years I'm going to be faced with wave after wave of gigantic Gaullic armies until they wear down my troop production capacity, until I'm pushed off the mainland agian.
Indeed. This is connected with my earlier point in that your only option is an offensive one. If you can beat them back badly enough to garner a peace treaty, you may save position yet. Sack the city, put a cheap unit in there for garrison. If you have a few of these left when asking for the treaty, offer the ruined cities back to them to rebuild for your future conquests.
mattholomew
02-26-2006, 06:49
this isn't completely related but ambushes were mentioned in here, what is the best strategy for ambushes? do you try to surround the enemy and then attack them directly from all sides or wait until they stumble onto your forces?
Reverend Joe
02-26-2006, 06:52
If you are playing on huge unit settings, it is still possible to bleed them dry, by exhausting their manpower pool. However, this is extremely difficult on any setting other than huge.
In addition to the stack inside, they've got a couple thousand troops wandering around the north. I'm confidant I can beat them in a defensive battle.
Since my last post, I've had a couple serious military setbacks.
My group of 300 veterans was swarmed, completely and utterly.
Literally, they were attacked by 5 seperate armies, totalling up to around 400 0 gauls. On top of that, the terrain they were attacked in lacked any sort of cover, or even incline. My group of 300 were hardened warriors (2-3 silver chevrons, a couple with a gold). In the middle of the map there was a large rock formation. It formed a mildly inverted U. WIth no cover, no retreat, and no reinforcements, they formed a defensive ring in that bowl. They were dead to a man, but they slaughtered nearly half of the troops set agianst them. It was crazy. The first wave routed in seconds under the barrage of javelins, but after they ran out, it was only a matter of time :|. By the way, the javelins are the only reason I've found hit and run tactics effective. I think EB should try to implement some way of making a guerilla style of war more feasible, if that's at all possible.
The force that destroyed my eastern guard has besieged my toehold. I've only got one or two units in there, so I'm going to have to pull my troops back to relieve the siege, or risk losing my entire force, and my only general.
I tried going on the offense initially :| They rushed me with so many troops that I had to retreat to the bridge on the southern edge of my territory. My force isn't quite up to taking on nearly a thousand Gaesatae in open warfare.
Rome's declared war. I have spies littered throughout Gaul, so I can plan ambushes and move my smaller force to intercept any incoming troops. From what I've seen, they've got a large, very well seasoned army moving north through the alps to my provence.
I'm seriously tempted at this point to just sack the city I took, build a fleet, take my army into the mediterranian, and try to sack Rome.
I'm seriously tempted at this point to just sack the city I took, build a fleet, take my army into the mediterranian, and try to sack Rome.
Hell yeah, I'd love to see that. I had a march to Rome myself, but my going was a lot easier than what you're going through. If things don't start looking any better, that may be all you have left. Then either work around there or retreat back to the islands...
Sounds like a hell of a lot of fun though. Try to get some screenshots! I would have loved to have seen that last stand by your veterans by the rock. That was so awesome. Really, really great.
LorDBulA
02-26-2006, 07:30
bleed the Aedui dry over the river crossing there,
Ouch. I would advice you not to exploit rivers in such way.
River crossing battles are VERY unrealistic and ruin game if you use them.
Try stand tall and fight enemy in more realistic circumstances.
I guarantee you it will be much more fun.
this isn't completely related but ambushes were mentioned in here, what is the best strategy for ambushes? do you try to surround the enemy and then attack them directly from all sides or wait until they stumble onto your forces?
It all depends on your and enemy army composition.
Generally its not good to spread out your troops, whats the point?
As an example i will describe one of my ambushes.
My army was made of much lighter troops (Gatae) then roman army, i had only my general cavalry, about 50 men. Roman army with more man was much heavier and also had 500 cavalrymen.
Fighting this army head to head would most likely end up in my defeat.
They cavalry would just brake my light troops.
Because this army was marching on my homelands i position my army in the woods.
Ambush was a sauces.
Enemy had 500 cavalry and 320 Triari in the front, terrain was claiming from the back of enemy army to the front.
First goal was to even the odds. Taking out roman cavalry and those hard as* triari was a priority.
I concentrated around 70% of my army against them, i used my best most mobile guys for this job. I position them all around enemy.
My Phalanx positioned lower was ordered to run fast forward, wheel right/left and form solid line between my attack force and main body of romans.
This way i could cut off the head of enemy.
I also positioned my archers lower down the hill with some additional troops to cover them. They job was to shoot at the back of roman galic auxilia that will march up the hill.
The battle. I just swarmed romans on the front. I created massive number superiority in that spot. Roman cavalry was routed fast loosing 350-400 men.
Even triari couldnt hold up long faced with such slaughter. They where routed and killed surprisingly fast (normally they are very hard to brake).
Now i just wheeled right my main army body. I formed my ranks down the hill (when my covering line was holding out) and i started rolling down the hill, killing everyone on my path.
Archers also did they part masacrating gallic auxilia from the back.
It was slaughter.
In conclusion. Dont spread your forces (unless you have number superiority).
Concentrate on most dangerous enemy elements and kill it.
Mop up.
Ambiorix
02-27-2006, 01:24
If I read that right it sounds eerily like Lee at Chancellorsville.
I think the casse generals are terrible, I can never accomplish anything with them... and they're completely worthless in a city battle
Roderick Ponce Von Fontlebottom
03-03-2006, 04:37
Ive been reading all of these posts about the Casse, and no one seems to have had any major CTD problems with their campaigns. The Casse are hands down my favorite race, but I always get flooded with CTDs after a certain amount of gameplay, does any body else have this problem???
And after I conquered all of Hibernia and Mainland Britain, I couldent build any boats or means of transportation to the mainland of Gual!
QwertyMIDX
03-03-2006, 06:18
You can build a naval port in Ictis and then build fleets.
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