Mediæval Auctoriso [Archive]

NagatsukaShumi

02-20-2006, 05:57

Mediæval Auctoriso
A Call to Arms

Where Rome : Total War had Europa Barbarorum, Medieval : Total War II shall have Mediæval Auctoriso, with the same aim as the Europa Barbarorum project.

Before I start, let it be said that this is in no way a slur or attack on the work of Creative Assembly. I respect all of them (more so as I’ll be studying games design at University next year) and their work that is of coarse on going. They however must sacrifice some historical aspects for the sake of game play. This is understandable but as EB has proved, historical accuracy can indeed be part and parcel of the package and be extremely enjoyable and educational in the least, I know myself became far more interested in history than I was when I bought Shogun.

BI had its Graal Knights, whilst fun for novelty value for a brief period was over all not appreciated by those who sought a more historically accurate gaming experience. EB created such a conversion for the original Rome and is a testament to a combined effort to create a historically accurate game, it also has succeeded in doing so without draining the fun away, in fact in many ways it added new elements of fun to the game.

Mediæval Auctoriso aims to create the same experience for the upcoming Total War release. In essence, to create a historically accurate environment whilst enhancing the game play itself, to remain accessible to the less experienced whilst increasing the difficult for the more advanced players, more over making sure the AI provides a decent challenge to all levels of gamers, whilst allowing the lesser experienced to learn new tactics to ward off their foes.

Of coarse, with Medieval II still some months away the project will, for now, be based on idea’s and research, along with going with what we hear from Creative Assembly along the way. This will be a long term project and as such requires a dedicated team who are willing to put time and effort into extensive research prior to the games release and such requires the following individuals :

Researchers
This job would require the individual to concentrate on a particular area of research set by the team leader (Me) and other members of the group. Their area’s of research would range from what countries owned what, what troops fought for who and so on. Basically it is broad, nobody would be stuck doing the same thing all the time, ideally we could set somebody an entire country to research which means they could research all sorts from troops, buildings, borders of the realm and so on.

Graphics Artists
Historical accuracy will also need to be portrayed in the look of units, building and so on. Skinners and general menu artists are required, though the majority of their time now would be helping in research, making preliminary sketches and working with those researching area’s specific to the visual atmosphere we hope to portray. Modding projects such as this live and die for those with graphical talents, and as such would be important to get on board early.

These people are paramount. If you would like to help please reply here or drop me (or another member) a line via PM. Projects on this scale require a team, I have discovered this in the past as some of you from a fair while back will know.

The Team

The team so far is as follows (expect this to be updated until an official thread is made) :

Team Leader - NagatsukaShumi (aka Sam)
Head of Research - TheSilverKnight (aka Chris)
Researcher - Hurin_Rules
Researcher - Ianofsmeg16
Researcher - Antiochius
Researcher - Alexander the Pretty Good

I advise those who wish join to either have MSN or gain access to it as discussions will be important now with research and when modding takes place. Hopefully we can gain our own sub forum here later on if we drum up enough support and we can always set up our own for discussion away from MSN and so on.

PS - I am aware an MTR exists, I say good luck to them too, the community benefited from both EB and RTR, hopefully this will be the same :2thumbsup:

TheSilverKnight

02-20-2006, 06:00

I, for one, wish to say that this is going to be a well-sized project and we are going to need all the help from all the enthusiastic modders we can find who wish to be a part of a great project such as this! :2thumbsup:

Also, as Sam said, if you need, you can PM either of us to gain our MSN addresses so we may further discuss the mod.

Feel free to do so at any time if you wish to ask privately for membership or to help, or do so here in this post.

Thank you, and wish us luck!

Best wishes,
TheSilverKnight (aka Chris)

Hurin_Rules

02-20-2006, 07:27

TheSilverKnight

02-20-2006, 13:55

Good luck guys, I think that's a really good idea. My specialty is high medieval military history (esp. 11th-12th century), and I can read Latin, so if I can help you with translations, bibliography or just general knowledge about the Middle Ages, let me know.

I too can read a fair amount of Latin, but we need all the help we can get. We'd appreciate your help when the time comes along and we begin to do serious research and modding (which, still, seems light years away).

Your knowledge of the middle ages and bibliography will certainly come in handy as well. ~:)

Ianofsmeg16

02-20-2006, 13:56

Can I help with reasech on Western Europe?

I alread have Chris' msn, so we can communicate over that...

TheSilverKnight

02-20-2006, 13:59

Yes! Of course you can help, Ian ~:) You can specialise in history of the Gaelic factions, I assume (being from the Isle of Man and all, you Celtic islander, you ~;)? Help will be especially needed for lesser important countries game-speaking.

Ianofsmeg16

02-20-2006, 14:05

well, i do have experience with Gaelic Factions, so yeah I could help in any way shape or form i can

NagatsukaShumi

02-20-2006, 15:22

Hurin and Ian and now both added to the team :2thumbsup:

It is pleasing to see some interest already, keep it coming guys :book:

Ianofsmeg16

02-20-2006, 17:52

Nagatsuka, pm me or add me to msn, and tell me what kind of info you would like.

Glad to be abord!

TheSilverKnight

02-20-2006, 19:35

Just a quick note -

We will be releasing information further as concepts come along in the mod. For now, as you know the game is not realeased, and we are not able to know what we are capable, but research is well underway.

Any support you guys wish to offer will be welcome! :book:

NagatsukaShumi

02-20-2006, 22:29

I would like to welcome Antiochius to the team asm the third researcher.

The team now consists of five people though more are welcome to join, infact I insist you do :laugh4:

Just to let you know, work has indeed begun and we are all hard at work.

TheSilverKnight

02-21-2006, 01:59

Just to let everyone know, we now have forums up!! Join in on the discussions and feel free to offer your help! ~:)

Here's the link to the forums -

http://mediauctoriso.proboards61.com/index.cgi

Cheers

Mikeus Caesar

02-21-2006, 19:47

NagatsukaShumi

02-21-2006, 23:16

Cripes, that was quick. The game has only been official for two months, won't be released till the end of the year, yet already a full scale mod to make it more accurate is underway.

Well, if it turns out the rumours of elephants with cannons mounted on them are true, i hope you do a good job!

Rest assured we'll be taking those cannons off of our cuddly grey friends and letting them get back to what they do best, stomping on people!

We will hopefully be able to release some information soon, as regards what factions we'll be using for MA so watch this space.

Also, the invite to members is still well and truly open, we do need some with modding experience, especially in modelling to apply, though bare in mind you'd be researching until the release of the demo, for obvious reasons. :2thumbsup:

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-22-2006, 00:16

EB was started fairly early, too. ~;p

NagatsukaShumi

02-22-2006, 01:18

Yeah, it was relatively early, however we will benefit from having all research pretty much done upon release.

Its nice to see theres an intertests in the project :2thumbsup:

King of Atlantis

02-22-2006, 03:18

Whats the name mean? Id think Medium Aveum Bellum would be a could name:book:

TheSilverKnight

02-22-2006, 03:49

The name means "Authentic Medieval". I think it fits for the mod. :book: Then again, the name was consulted upon privately, and I came up with the name, so...:laugh4:

ChaosLord

02-22-2006, 06:58

If you're looking to do an accurate MTW2 you fellows should contact WesW. Him and the others who've contributed to the MedMod for MTW have tons of info available on the subject.

Duke John

02-22-2006, 09:06

NagatsukaShumi

02-22-2006, 11:42

Rome: Total Realism (started at TWC), Europa Barbarum (started at the Org)
Medieval: Total Realism(started at TWC), Mediæval Auctoriso (started at the Org)

I am starting to see a trend; the Org members can come up with more original names :wink:

On the graphical department M2:TW is alot more demanding, especially with CA raising the bar much higher with their already good looking skins, so the artists are key for "selling" your mod. My advice is to try getting some known experienced modellers and skinners on the team. Talent attracts talent and at the moment M:TR is winning that race. And by moving to your own forum so soon is IMO not that wise if you are still the underdog. If you cannot get modellers try to aim for something more unique and more focused, like the Hundred Years War or the Reconquisita (the Wars of the Roses are taken! :grin: ) The Crusades mod by caius brittanica is relatively pretty small, but can also be completed sooner and to me it looks more interesting than the huge mods.

Good luck with it!

I whole heartedly agree DJ, I have always found it an issue finding any help with planned projects bar one or two, so its nice to have so many researchers on board, but now the real task of finding modellers especially is going to set in. In September I'll be starting up my games deisgn course at Uni so I may learn a moderate level of modelling however we really do need somebody with experience, even though their input will be limited to researching with the rest of us for the time being. I am confident there are some we have who can edit text and script however models are what a realism modification will live or die on.

I think, following your suggestions, releasing the mod in stages would be beneficial rather than shortening its span, along the same lines as Chivalry as in release one being an early campaign, two high etc for lightening the work load somewhat at each given time. I do agree on smaller scope being more interesting than larger and I certainly have plans to hopefully release several "mini" campaigns with the mod at some point so people can play out certain era's of history, but of coarse grand plans come to naught without modellers.

I was hoping possibly you could help me in the search for modellers if possible? Any help from someone of your stature would be appreciated highly.

Ah yes, help from WesW and the like would be appreciated if they have the time too, I shall be sure to look at who would be helpful, again help form DJ there would be excellent as I have been off the modding scene since MTW's original era of dominance.

Thanks for all the kind words!

King Yngvar

02-22-2006, 19:17

Will there be any difference in factions to include? If so, which will you include?

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-22-2006, 23:43

Assuming there is some kind of "provincial campaign" feature in MTW2, we will have three "eras" - Early, High, and Late, essentially. Dates and names may change, but the concept will be the same. Some people will want to jump right in to the 1300's, and we want to give them that option.

That also allows us to release beta content ala Chivalry: Total War.

We're also hoping for 30 faction slots, as hinted by a CA rep on the .com boards. This will obviously give us more room to work with. They will probably be scattered across the three eras to liven up different areas - and we may look east.

Current vanilla factions will change. Unified Spain will not stand. Names will be changed to protect the innocent. Etc, etc, etc.

Unhappy about the Aztecs? There's a possibility they will be eliminated. Just a possibility. :hide:

Essentially, we can't give you a list yet.

~;p

TheSilverKnight

02-22-2006, 23:44

Will there be any difference in factions to include? If so, which will you include?

Depending on how many factions the game engine can handle, new factions will be designed in under-populated areas...such as Scandinavia, Eastern Europe, North Africa, etc. No information is being released on factions yet, however. But stay tuned to this space for future info about factions! ~:)

NagatsukaShumi

02-23-2006, 02:52

To add my two cents here, the faction list will be ready soon for "beta release" to the public, partly because we want to get them mostly confirmed and secondly because we would like to hear your input too on whether you think we've missed anybody important out or added somebody who doesn't merit a starting place.

Debate amongst everyone here is encouraged as long as it is backed up with evidence, no "So and so because they pwn and cos i wn b them!!!!11!!!1!11" please.

Orda Khan

02-24-2006, 17:01

NagatsukaShumi

02-24-2006, 23:16

Are you looking for unit suggestions for the factions you decide upon? Obviously as yet we have no idea what units CA intend to include, though I do expect most of the units we saw in MTW.
On a personal note, I was really disappointed with the Mongol units of MTW. The release of VI added Steppe Heavies but they did nothing to improve on an already poor offering.
Some units worth considering.....
Mongol heavy cav
Mongol horse archers
Qipchaq light cav
Khwarazmian cav
Kerait cav
Bulgar infantry
Bulgar archers
Chinese seige craft (catapult) and engineers
Moslem Trebuchets and engineers

..........Orda

Hi Orda, I was always disappointed with the role the Mongols played in the original MTW and I can assure you they will be addressed in MA.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated and all help is welcome, as I've probably said we'd like to get all the research done in advance of the game so we know what we are doing and delve straight into modding.

On a side note we are still looking for a skinner or modeller, infact a few, these are VITAL. Any help is greatly appreciated!

Ianofsmeg16

02-28-2006, 23:40

Hey guys! we'd like for you to discuss what factions you would like to see in MA, i'm sure theirs a list somewhere of the vanilla playable factions already, but we would love to know what changes you'd like to see there. And anywhere in fact, this mod is going to be mae for the people, so the peoiple shall have a say in waht happens!

Keba

02-28-2006, 23:54

NagatsukaShumi

03-01-2006, 00:08

Here's the list of the 21 factions in the game:

-England
-France
-Scotland
-Holy Roman Empire
-Denmark
-Spain
-Portugal
-Milan
-Venice
-Papal States
-Sicily
-Poland
-Russia
-Hungary
-Byzantium
-The Turks
-Egypt
-The Moors
-The Mongols
-The Tumurids
-The Aztecs

There was already a great deal of discussion about the factions in this (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60123) thread.

I suspect that the Papal States will be unplayable, much like the Senate in vanilla RTW.

Hi Keba.

Thanks for the list. We know there was already a thread to discuss it, but we'd like to see what factions people would like to see, as a conversation starter and an indication of public opinion. We already have our own idea's, but we'd like to know what you guys think.

Also, expect an announcement of sorts to arrive soon.

Keba

03-01-2006, 16:45

caius britannicus

03-02-2006, 02:58

I really don't see why there should be TWO realism mods again... it never made sense to me with RTR and EB. Now its happening again.... oh well.

Umar bin al-Khattab

03-02-2006, 03:47

I really don't see why there should be TWO realism mods again... it never made sense to me with RTR and EB. Now its happening again.... oh well.
Indeed. I always thought that a joint effort of the realism mods would make one, even more awesome mod. Anyway, good luck ony your mod guys. I'm looking forward to it.

Trajanus

03-02-2006, 07:09

Yes true, but did you not think that firstly perhaps they didn't want to work together " too many cooks etc."

Secondly if there was only 1 realism mod no doubt it would please almost everyone if not all, but 2 mods offers two perspectives of realism so one might get some things that the other doesn't and vice versa.

Also why limit our community to 1 masterpiece when we can have two?

econ21

03-02-2006, 10:50

I really don't see why there should be TWO realism mods again... it never made sense to me with RTR and EB. Now its happening again.... oh well.

I can see that perspective, but then again you could say having RTR and EB "duplicate" each other has worked out for us, the consumers. We've had a polished RTR to play for a long time while EB was only in development or a beta. And EB has been able to use the time to do a lot of in-depth research and ambitious stuff with the scripting. There's also signs to me that the two mods are learning off each other's experiences.

But, I'm probably skating on thin ice here - all the best to all mod teams and let's keep any interactions friendly ~:grouphug:

NagatsukaShumi

03-02-2006, 15:29

Firstly can I say thank you for the feedback guys, the first week or so was always about gauging public opinion on the project rather than releasing anything approaching information, we will however be releasing some information later today or tommorrow (English) afternoon.

I believe it was caius who brought up the point about two seperate modifications again, forgive me if I'm wrong.

Yes I do see both the pros and cons of two "realism mods" been in production. I do realise it may be effective to work together to produce a finished project and all the other con's, however its not all negative.

Two seperate mods in the same kind of vein isn't uncommon, for MTW I believe there were two similar modifications, I can't remember their name but one was by WesW and the other by the BKB I do believe, this proved to be sucessful and offered a variety to the public to play with, something that RTR and EB are doing as we speak, I've played them both and I enjoy both of them, they are different and offer different experiences.

As for MTR and MA, I can safely say the following. If a merger was benefitial for BOTH parties, I don't see why it couldn't happen, if it would help both then it can't be bad. However, I don't know if MTR would want to as I haven't heard anything of the like from them.

I hope both mods, if seperate get along. I see no reason why we can't co-exist alongside one another if this is the case. I certainly wouldn't have anything against even helping one another, exchanging idea's, helping on certain aspects and so on. I have no issue with, like I said, both modifications co-existing with eachother, helping eachother and so on. If MTR are interested in anything of the sort then feel free to PM me, I certainly have no reservations against them doing so, I have declared publically MA's stance, I don't know what MTR think and I would be intrigued to know, but preferably in private. We shall see, but its impossible for me to say much without knowing the other sides opinions, so I will stop there.

Thank you for all the kind words, I did have a worry at first that there would be very little interest due to us been unestablished. An announcement concerning MA is pending, any collaberation/merger/"alliance" with MTR should be dealt with behind the scenes, but I have NO problems with us getting in contact to gauge opinion etc.

I am very pleased to see a rise in interest on MA and we have gladly breen able to get setup without falling flat on our faces.

I totally agree Simon, all of us should be able to get on well, we are all working towards the same goal, making a new, fun, experience in the next generation Total War engine. :2thumbsup:

Rodion Romanovich

03-02-2006, 21:28

Nice with 2 realism mods! I always preferred EB over RTR for a number of reasons (mainly gameplay and the thorough attention to every single historical detail) so I think I'm very glad for this extra mod even though it might weaken both teams if there are two instead of one (but as others pointed out that worked for EB, and I got the impression MTR is aiming for RTR style while MA is aiming for EB style). I wish you best of luck although I don't think I'll be able to offer any help with it :2thumbsup:

NagatsukaShumi

03-03-2006, 16:28

Mediæval Auctoriso
A Call to Arms

After a week or so of announcing the project I now feel it is time, judging by a decent response, to outline our intentions with Mediæval Auctoriso, what we aim to do, what we will be doing with the modification and so on, but of coarse there are still some things we will be keeping to ourselves for now.

Game play or graphics?

It is always a fine balance to get right in a computer game, and it’s a criticism that has been used against Creative Assembly recently following Rome : Total War’s release, with many people disappointed that the game had seemingly gone down the “glitter” route. Mediæval Auctoriso aims to provide historical accuracy and as such both the aesthetics and the feel of the game must be altered to achieve this.

It is a well known fact that skinners and modellers are scarce on the Total War modding scene at the moment, most are already on a team and this is something we have had to take into consideration. I can confirm here and now that the main focus on this particular projects first release is that of game play, far more so than the graphical aspect. This is partly down to the lack of modellers available and partly down to my own personal belief that it’s the game play that will attract interest, an exciting game experience will always come above the graphical aspect of the game, I would rather we dedicated most of our time on creating an exciting environment for everyone to live out their empire building fantasies. Having said this we will not be neglecting the graphical area of the modification, it will undoubtedly necessary to at least modify a few existing models and input some of our own, however to leave it second in line of importance is entirely intentional. It is my hope that the game play the modification provides will spark interest, most notably from modellers and we can go from there, but there is also a long way to go until release and I am not suggesting that we would reject help on models, I can confirm that even if we obtain this help the first release will be aimed entirely at the game play aspect whilst a second release would come with new graphics, the bonus of this is that it also allows any modellers we collaborate with more time to produce the units models and skins, which in turn will provide a much more finished product.

Factions

This is an area of great interest for the Mediæval Auctoriso team and is, evidently, an area of debate amongst the community. As we aim to provide a fun and historical environment for players the factions we include is very important to us. We are well aware at some peoples distaste for the omissions of certain factions and we entirely agree that some factions do deserve their place in the game. Our only problem is the 21 or 30 limit, we of coarse will have a list of 21 but we are also compiling a list of an extra 9 factions, rest assured we have been watching discussions in the community regarding the factions people wish to see and we have been at work at compiling a list of “provisional” factions, we however won’t be releasing information on every faction we are including but in the next few days and weeks we will start to release some teasers and previews for factions we definitely intend to include and the rest pending confirmation of what CA are doing faction wise.

What I can reveal to you is the main intention with our additional factions at first is to plug gaps in the map, it is always boring when your fighting unestablished rebels which you can’t engage much diplomacy with whilst all those Westerners get all the fun. Anywhere with substantial rebels presence will undoubtedly get a historically viable faction to help plug the gap and add a new face to the region to make expansion a little more tricky for those who only have the rebels to stomp on and interact with.

Units

This is where the real changes will be made as most certainly it will be an area that is rather inaccurate for a start but one that can most certainly be improved upon in a game play sense, its an area we hope to make unique as far as MTWII modifications are concerned. This will also take a bit of explaining, so please, bare with me.

We will of coarse be editing and updating factions initial rosters, I am already pretty certain some units will not be there and some that are will have never actually existed that are, so this will be addressed, even if the units appearance in battle isn’t entirely accurate from the off, this of coarse will be remedied as the project progresses.

This is, however, where I will admit a certain aspect of the unit system could upset the “historical accuracy” lovers. I am all for historical accuracy, but we mustn’t forget that in reality France, for example, never conquered the Baltic or the Iberian peninsula. Here is where the unique aspect will come into play, though part of this will probably be familiar to those of your who played MTW modifications that followed the same sort of idea. Basically, we are going to put a stop to England for example building longbowmen in Antioch, it isn’t realistic in the sense of their actual appearance and it is doubtful they’d clad any similar style troop in.

This of coarse means your factions core and historically accurate troops will only be recruitable in their home provinces and provinces where they either were recruited or COULD be recruited. For England you will, for example, still be able to recruit say for examples purposes longbowmen in Northern France as its hardly such a huge shift in climate and environments that it would be entirely unrealistic to say they could never recruit the unit there. Now if they get as far as Antioch for example, it is a bit daft to presume that they would still be using the same style of longbowmen here and as such they would not be able to recruit them, but rather a different unit that is far more adapted to the environment.

Basically, you’ll get the realistic and historically accurate units in your home provinces and in ones where its is realistically feasible that your faction would, if they controlled them for long enough, be able to build these units. However, conquer further and you will be able to build or recruit mercenaries (this will be decided, it may be a mixture of both) that, although not historically accurate, are more adapted to the environment surrounding them. This may disappoint some historically accurate only purists but rest assured their main and core units will be accurate. This unit system is in place to reflect the fact that if a Empire expanded in real life, they began to change certain sections of their armies to adapt to what they conquered, France for example wouldn’t keep the armour heavy knights in the desert if they held territories there for an extended period of time, they would undoubtedly adapt to improve their recruits for that environment whilst keeping their historically accurate heavy knights on the Western European mainland to fight in an environment that suits them. In essence, the unit system looks to make expansion more realistic and even though the units themselves won’t be entirely accurate away from home your Empire never covered Europe either, this is to make making the alternate history your Empire itself is creating in the game more enjoyable and realistic.

Of coarse, this is a the basic idea and will be tweaked and so forth, but this is basically what we want to do with units. I feel it will make the game feel more like your creating your own empire rather than following a strict code and it will certainly make unit recruitment a bit more realistic as you expand, but we are keeping those accurate units in there and making them play a part in the area’s they really did such as the longbowmen at Agincourt, Crécy and Poitiers when your fighting the French with the English and so on. We are trying to make a fine balance between actual history and what history could have been like had your empire expanded the way it does under your leadership, hopefully this will make the game feel much more like you achievement, not someone else’s. Feel free to ask any questions on this as I understand it’s a bit complicated.

Additional Features

Hopefully we will be adding on some new Historical Battles and making our modification MP compatible, the “fantasy” units will not be playable online or in custom battle, so you will be fielding historically accurate units here. If we miss out any factions we may release little add-on’s known as Missing Links with these factions included, but I’m afraid if they aren’t chosen for the first release you will have to wait for these little additions that may or may not be added, depending on time constraints.

Conclusion

Finally, I hope we can deliver a historical modification that also caters for the alternate history you will inevitably create as well as been enjoyable. Any help is greatly appreciated and we are still taking staff on, so don’t hesitate to get in touch with me. If there’s any questions you’d like to ask I am willing to answer them so feel free to ask me any you wish. Thanks kindly for reading, Mediæval Auctoriso will be releasing more information as time goes by, but for now, thanks for reading.

Ianofsmeg16

03-03-2006, 18:36

And what NS forgot to mention is that I will upload our first concept art very soon lol

Trajanus

03-08-2006, 08:27

looking forward to the concept art guys.

Rodion Romanovich

03-08-2006, 08:53

Have you decided which factions to use yet? Will you have several starting dates and if so, which ones?

NagatsukaShumi

03-08-2006, 18:24

Have you decided which factions to use yet? Will you have several starting dates and if so, which ones?

We do have an idea of who we'd like to include, we will of coarse keep this close to our chest at the moment.

There will indeed be multiple campaigns, again information will eventually come but more or less when its decided and we can give you a detailed enough account of our intent regarding these.

As for the concept art, I shall wait for Ian to get them uploaded, for now feel free to suggest anything you like that you'd want to see, discuss away it is always interesting to hear other peoples opinions.

shifty157

03-29-2006, 04:53

Hello. I am a modeller. Your mod seems rather intriguing and i have some ideas.

Its late now though and im dead tired. Ill send you a PM tomorrow to better introduce myself.

NagatsukaShumi

03-29-2006, 13:59

Hello. I am a modeller. Your mod seems rather intriguing and i have some ideas.

Its late now though and im dead tired. Ill send you a PM tomorrow to better introduce myself.

Greetings shifty, I have PM'ed you myself whilst I have some free time.:2thumbsup:

PS - Thanks to Quietus for the signature!

anti_strunt

03-29-2006, 14:04

Actually the English should probably never be able to build Longbowmen even in France due to the very different social climate..

Regardless, I'd love to join this mod! I'm quite fluent in medieval history, and my years of wargaming have given me a lot of specialised knowledge which would be very applicable. I'd be able to (and I'd love to!) help with geography and heraldry too.

NagatsukaShumi

03-29-2006, 14:06

Actually the English should probably never be able to build Longbowmen even in France...

Regardless, I'd love to join this mod! I'm quite fluent in medieval history, and my years of wargaming have given me a lot of specialised knowledge which would be very applicable. I'd be able to (and I'd love to!) help with geography and heraldry too.

Hi anti_strunt, please PM if you wish to offer your services, it will be easier to discuss things through PM rather than here. Cheers :2thumbsup:.

Subedei

03-29-2006, 14:47

NagatsukaShumi

03-29-2006, 16:18

(maybe stupid) question here: Do/did the different modding teams cooperate in some areas?

You guys could focus more on the special charakteristics of the own mod & save some hours on the lesser important, sometimes maybe time-consuming parts of the work...or one group has a master in a special task (hoggy at BL) & can give tipps to others....

I just thought: Doesen't extra work on "don`t-like-staff" suck for both teams?

Well nevermind, only my 2 cents...(I learned the meaning of that expression here....and always wondered what it ment in "The Simpsons")....

Apart from that, I played and loved RTR & EB, and still do.....RESPECT out 2 both teams...

I assume you mean helping eachother as in MA and MTR? ITs been suggested but neither team has ever spoken to one another of such a matter.

At the moment MA does need its own members with certain talents, we couldn't rely on MTR, it wouldn't be fair and I'd feel more of a part of MTR than a single entity.

At the moment its touch and go as we've not really got a team.

Woad Warrior

03-29-2006, 16:40

I'm a big fan of RTR, and in particular EB, so if this mod is M2TW's equivallent, then I'd love to join. I can be a researcher, in particular for the Scots. Also, I could be a skinner for the mod, and perhaps a modeler, as I am currently learning how to use 3dsmax7 for RTW. So is it alright if I join?

NagatsukaShumi

03-29-2006, 17:38

Helgi

04-03-2006, 19:13

Kill the Aztecs, and the Americas for that matter. They are a bit too weak, and not nearly a match for a developed European nation.

Assuming contact between Europeans and the Aztecs, late 15th century/early 16th century. Following is a rundown of advantages and disadvantages.

For one, European armies are more mobile, they have horses, the Azetcs do not. Two, Europeans are well armored, the Aztecs are not (this offers them some mobility, but again, horses are still an advantage) so the Europeans last longer in a straight-up fight. Three, the Europeans have gunpowder, the Aztecs do not (they even have trouble with finding sufficent metal for that matter). Four, Aztec ships cannot hope to match the larger, faster, better armed vessels of European powers. Five, disease, Europeans were, for the most part, untroubled by them, the Aztecs were ravaged by them.

All in all, the Aztecs are in a bad situation, plus, Americas are around for only around 40 game years. So, in conclusion, I would scrap them and use the faction space, model space and map space for something better (of course, assuming that there isn't that pesky hardcode around).

I'm not an expert on medieval history, so I do not know with whom to replace them. From the other factions, like I said, I do not know enough to offer educated advice, especially not for a mod that aims to be the EB of M2TW.

I can't help but agree with Keba, when it comes to the Aztecs or any culture in the Americas before European colonization, it's not a good idea, they were using weapons of mostly wood, bone, stone and inthe case of the more advaced American cultures sharpened obsidian, and what match is that to Iron and Bronze.

What saved the Skaelings in the 10th Century from the Norse, was that there was not the mass migration to the Americas that happened centuries later. in open battle, man for man, the cultures of the Americas would have not lasted long, as
For one, European armies are more mobile, they have horses, the Azetcs do not. Two, Europeans are well armored, the Aztecs are not (this offers them some mobility, but again, horses are still an advantage) so the Europeans last longer in a straight-up fight. Three, the Europeans have gunpowder, the Aztecs do not (they even have trouble with finding sufficent metal for that matter). Four, Aztec ships cannot hope to match the larger, faster, better armed vessels of European powers. Five, disease, Europeans were, for the most part, untroubled by them, the Aztecs were ravaged by them. and in the time of the Norse, the skaelings had some chance as long as they outnumbered the Norse 15 to 1, but man to man, cold steel, tactics and good armor will beat out soft leather, bone, stone, sharpened obsidian and wood. Or let us say what if Rome had been more advanced in seamenship and landed 5 legions in america with more to come, what would the indians have done against say Caesars 13th Legion or Nero's 14th or 16th Legions(I forget which one it was that was Nero's best). But in the end with all things equal, these native cultures never equaled the technological skill or Military Knowledge of the Europeans.

With the above true, imagine Saladin or Genghis or his grandson Kublai Khan riding through the American Plains, it would be as worse a slaughter as if the Europeans riding through, So the Aztecs are not a good choice, maybe another Asian, European or North African faction would be better?

NagatsukaShumi

04-03-2006, 21:00

What to do with the America's is certainly on our agenda, we may very well remove them in favour of European nations, it would be sensible if we are running out and would narrow our area of scope to the European battlefield.

Information regarding factions will be release sometime soon, watch this space.

Orda Khan

04-04-2006, 17:17

I tend to agree about the Aztecs, some will enjoy the idea but personally I think their inclusion offers nothing. I would suggest replacing them with either the Mamluks or Ilkhanate

......Orda

Helgi

04-05-2006, 01:34

I tend to agree about the Aztecs, some will enjoy the idea but personally I think their inclusion offers nothing. I would suggest replacing them with either the Mamluks or Ilkhanate

......Orda

Mamluks or Ilkhanate, either is a better choice, I like the Ilkhanate better though:idea2:

shifty157

04-05-2006, 03:04

After some debate we have tenatively decided not to include the Americas. Of course this is subject to change depending on various things most especially how well the Americas work in the actual game.

All of these factions that youre listing have been passed around. Many are obvious picks. Others have generated some debate. And there are even a few that may surprise you. We should be able to give a (more or less) final faction list in a short time.

Its very difficult to give definite answers with so few details from CA.

Subedei

04-05-2006, 08:30

Ilkhanate woul be great. I mean they were a major player in those days....at least in the first two thirds of the planned time period.

Subedei

04-05-2006, 08:36

Or let us say what if Rome had been more advanced in seamenship and landed 5 legions in america with more to come, what would the indians have done against say Caesars 13th Legion or Nero's 14th or 16th Legions(I forget which one it was that was Nero's best).

I think you talk about the X Equites....I think they were his favourites.

Subedei

04-05-2006, 09:29

oooppppssss, i am sorry!!! Where can i erase messages?

NagatsukaShumi

04-05-2006, 12:00

oooppppssss, i am sorry!!! Where can i erase messages?

Don't worry, the moderators will amend them for you I imagine.

And yes, the factions have caused some debate on the forums but hopefully we will have decided the final lists shortly as shifty stated. Imformation will slowly be filtered to you, the public, as time goes by.

We are still accepting members so feel free to offer your aid if you wish to.

Helgi

04-05-2006, 18:44

I think you talk about the X Equites....I think they were his favourites.

Thanks Subedei:2thumbsup:

bozkirsovalyesi

04-11-2006, 03:41

my RECOMMENDATİONS MAP:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62945&page=2

shifty157

04-14-2006, 02:36

Thank you bozkirsovalyesi. Im sure they will be useful.

We're gearing up for a decent update spanning various different subjects so hopefully we'll have something nice for you within the next week. Although there are some features that we'll be keeping secret (perhaps even up until theyre released) because we dont want anyone else taking them and because theyre just that cool. Ill just say that alot is going to change about the way you play total war games.

shifty157

04-17-2006, 00:59

UPDATE #1

Ok guys. I managed to put together an update for you like i promised. Im sorry i cant tell you as much about our plans as i had hoped i would be able to because im very excited at how things are shaping up. Regardless i did manage to argue my way into telling you as much as i could. Have fun. We have alot more to tell you as the months go by.

This is obviously the first public update for MA. We've spent the last few weeks throwing around ideas and debating features to add and how to implement them and we're coming up with a pretty impressive lineup that we think youll rather enjoy.

Firstly and perhaps most importantly we have our campaign map which has been researched and designed by our mapper Anti_Strunt. For now this map adheres to the limitations of the RTW engine (most specifically in the number of provinces). This will very easily change once we learn more about the limitations of MTW2.
https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8170/senastekartan9ku.th.jpg (https://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=senastekartan9ku.jpg)

There are also plenty of core features that we have lined up and relatively fleshed out.

Government System
One of our major features is our government system. How will you choose to rule each individual province? Keep the province under your thumb and rule it personally or perhaps youd prefer to contract out the ruling to a noble or to the church or let it rule itself. All of these systems provide vastly varying pros and cons as well as differences in what buildings can be constructed and what units can be recruited and even how units are recruited.

Cultural Conversion
Every province you capture will need to be assimilated into your faction. This is without doubt a lengthy and expensive porcess that you can choose to undertake or not to undertake. The entire process could take you anywhere from a couple of turns up to many years depending on how similar your culture is with that of the captured province's culture. The degree of assimilation is entirely up to you. Allow the province to maintain its previous culture intact or attempt to crush their culture and replace it with your own or anywhere in between. The degree to which you travel down this process will have a huge impact in what buildings you can construct and what units you can recruit.

Regional Units
As your empire epands to the various edges of the map youll find your armies become more and more diverse as you recruit regionally specific units to fill out your ranks. So much so that you may find that your army on one side of the map is completely different from another of your armies on the other side both in the units it contains and the tactics it uses.

Adaptive Units
Not only will you find regional specific units to recruit as you march your armies across the map but youll also find that your units will adapt to their surroundings. As you bring new and different cultures into your empire you will find that your generals will take units from the new culture and blend them into your faction's military system. These new units are truly part of neither culture as they exist somewhere halfway between the two cultures and are wholely unique. Youll also find that your armies will adapt themselves to better survive in the new climates youll encounter in your conquests.

We hope you enjoyed this preview into the core features that will be included in MA and make our mod unique. Obviously there is still quite a bit more that we are planning and discussing. There are even some things that may astound you but for now we're keeping our hands covered until we learn more about MTW2 and its limitations. If you have any comments or questions you can post them on our official forum (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/index.php?showforum=13).

We are always looking for more people to join the team. Dont let the fact that MTW2 isnt out yet dispel you. There is still plenty to do and to plan and these intial phases are arguably the most important.

I hope this update gave you a better sense of what we're trying to do with MA. I know i found it difficult to restrain myself from describing everything we're currently thinking of. Everythign at once would probably be fatal though. Its an exciting time and MTW2 isnt even out yet.

Have fun.
- shifty

anti_strunt

04-17-2006, 02:09

Oh, and for those who care: that's just a reference map - the final map we use for the game itself will use a slightly less skewed projection, that's why Russia looks a bit... off...

kataphraktoi

04-17-2006, 12:46

Very Nice Anti-strut.

Furious Mental

04-17-2006, 14:11

shifty157

04-17-2006, 16:41

Regarding the system of government, do you think this could also be made to have an effect on government of homeland provinces? E.g. absolute monarchy, confederation of princedoms, theocracy, classical republic, etc. An absolute monarchy could cut down the cost of paying generals (i.e. the nobility) and allow recruitment of royal troops in some factions (e.g. janissaries?). A confederation of princedoms could mean less revenue but encourage development and loyalty of provincial castle settlements. A classical republic could do similarly but in relation to cities. And a theocracy could protect against religious dissent and obviously curry lots of favour from the pope.

Oh yes. Every provence in the game must have a form of government. Your homeland provences will begin the game with the historically correct form of government. And yes the government you choose will have very profound effects regarding what you can and cannot do, various bonuses or penalties, etc. Governments can of course be changed at any time but there will be penalties (although temporary) as you cant change the status quo without making someone angry.

Riadach

04-17-2006, 19:31

Nice map. Bit unsure about irish provinces though. How are you naming them?

shifty157

04-17-2006, 20:40

Nice map. Bit unsure about irish provinces though. How are you naming them?

We havent really looked into province names as a team considerably yet. Anti_Strunt would be the best source for why he divided the provinces as he did and what they will be named.

anti_strunt

04-18-2006, 14:51

Nice map. Bit unsure about irish provinces though. How are you naming them?

Well, there's Meath, the English foothold on the isle, and there's Ulster, the potential Scottish foothold on the isle, and there's, er, The Rest of Ireland. I was going to call it Munster or Leinster, though if you've got a better alternative, go ahead. ~:)

Riadach

04-20-2006, 20:55

Well, there's Meath, the English foothold on the isle, and there's Ulster, the potential Scottish foothold on the isle, and there's, er, The Rest of Ireland. I was going to call it Munster or Leinster, though if you've got a better alternative, go ahead. ~:)

I see. so its for gaming purposes solely and not for historical accuracy that you designed the map like that? Thought historical accuracy was the purpose of this mod. So there's no possibility of there being an irish faction in this mod then?

You are partially right. the english in the initial ten years of the conquest conquered most (not all) of leinster (laigin) barring the mountainous areas, most of meath (mide) the strip along the side of ulster (ulad), which was the traditional ulster the rest of the provence was called an tuaisceart(lit the north). But in the next ten years they conquered most of munster (mumha) barring the clare peninsula, west kerry and west cork, and most of connacht barring the owels the roscommon area south and west galway. It doesn't make sense to put the provinces as you have them, and i'd prefer to see them as they were in 1093 rather than a hundred years later when ireland was actually invaded.

Woad Warrior

04-20-2006, 23:42

Historical accuracy is of course a main feature of this mod. But we have to work within province limits, and take into account the whole period of the mod, rather than designing Ireland so the borders will look perfect at the start of the period. The province limit is certainly too small to contain all the territories you mentioned.

With Anti Strunt's map, we give the English the chance to get their foothold in Ireland at Dublin, and expand from there, just as they did.

Riadach

04-21-2006, 10:47

well if it was me, and i was concentrating on post-conquest ireland, i'd divide it into three provinces, the pale (area around dublin and a bit besides) extremely fertile land whos most attractive element is the economic wealth of the city, and very loyal, and for the most part (but not completely) culturally english. Then the galltacht or englishry, the place conquered by the english, reasonably fertile includes all the central counties flat land, good for cultivation clear from forests bogs and large mountains, but surprisingly disloyal and prone to rebellion attracting even the most loyal general to rebel after a period of time, and culturally irish for the most part among the lower classes. Then the gaedhaltacht or the irishry conisisting of all of the north and maybe north connacht, unless its possible for certains islands of the gaedhltacht to be placed within the galltacht . This will be agriculturally poor areas, that the initial invasion was not concerned with, and to which the irish had to retreat, culturally irish naturally. Mountainous boggy heavily forested, perfect for ambushes and almost impossible to sudue. Not only that but large rebel armies to come down and raid the galltacht and the pale, perhaps can be discouraged from their raids with a bribe. this i feel would be a more accurate picture of late post-invasion medieval ireland, especially if you do not intend include an irish faction.

anti_strunt

04-21-2006, 12:54

With the currently known faction limits, we have no plans for an Irish faction, no. However, your ideas for the map are very much implementable, since we obviously can't start to work on building the actual map until MTW2 is released and we know what to work with...

beauchamp

04-21-2006, 14:17

So were right on the verge of the conquest of Spain with the moors. The map kinda lies then, I would give them Sevilla and of Course the Alhambra in Granada. Also, maybe you could include Mali in Africa?

also, do you think you could repeat the Islamic factions again? Thanks alot.

Woad Warrior

04-21-2006, 17:14

Trust me, we have discussed the Moorish situation in great detail. I'm not sure how much I'm allowed to say, but there are so many rebels in Spain to represent the Muslim 'taifa' states, not really connected much to the other Moors except in religion.

Herkus

04-21-2006, 20:20

Will this mod be western Euro-centric, or it will have more about muslim factions which were more advanced than Europeans in medieval times as we all know:book:

shifty157

04-21-2006, 21:36

Will this mod be western Euro-centric, or it will have more about muslim factions which were more advanced than Europeans in medieval times as we all know:book:

One of our goals has been to flesh out the muslim factions and make them more than just a single anti-christian front. We hope to recreate the (often violent) politics between these factions.

beauchamp

04-27-2006, 22:51

Good Idea, Im a big fan. Especially if theirs Mali :2thumbsup:

shifty157

04-27-2006, 23:19

Thanks for the support. Its much appreciated.

Just as a mini-update to keep you guys updated as to our progress. Weve now more or less figured out how all of our core features (governments, adaptive units, etc) will work. With this groundwork laid we're transitioning into researching the various factions.

Ill try to put together a full update for you by the end of May. It will most likely include more details on our core features. I realize that the last update was sufficiently vague and i apologize but please realize that it is difficult to give concrete facts when we dont know a thing about the game we intend to mod. In addition the update will most likely include a rundown of one of the factions.

Until then please post your comments/questions/suggestions/whatever. Ill be around to give answers along with other members of the team. You cna post here or for the quickest response you should register and post on our official forums. You can reach them at: http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/index.php?showforum=13

Trajen the 1st

05-01-2006, 15:14

One of our goals has been to flesh out the muslim factions and make them more than just a single anti-christian front. We hope to recreate the (often violent) politics between these factions.
Seljuk civil wars here I come!:2thumbsup:

shifty157

05-01-2006, 19:50

Seljuk civil wars here I come!:2thumbsup:

Indeed. The muslim world was just as volatile and just as interesting as the christian world at that time and sadly that fact was rather glossed over in MTW.

The Stranger

05-03-2006, 00:04

later i could help balancing. though right now i could help with the research if you guys need me

shifty157

05-03-2006, 01:04

later i could help balancing. though right now i could help with the research if you guys need me

Could you do anything else besides balancing? Balancing has alot to do with text file editting. Are you proficient in the unit stats text file at all? Its relatively simple to learn but a specialist who knows exactly how editting a certain value will affect a unit in game is very necessary.

Orda Khan

05-03-2006, 16:01

Indeed. The muslim world was just as volatile and just as interesting as the christian world at that time and sadly that fact was rather glossed over in MTW.
More interesting in fact and MTW was sadly lacking

....Orda

cunobelinus

06-18-2006, 11:14

Im willing to do any photoshop work so add me 2 the team if you want my help.Also im up for doing some reasearch .

-Almogaver-

06-18-2006, 11:53

Hi! I just wanted to know... Have you thought of how are you going to include the Kingdom of Aragon and the county of Barcelona? Once they merged in a confederation they became the "Crown of Aragon" or as some historians call it: "catalan-aragonese confederation". I can help you out on that and also on their units (I've got drawings and a fair amount of information).

NagatsukaShumi

06-18-2006, 16:48

Hey guys, please feel free to apply for the MA team on our forums, hosted here : http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/index.php?showforum=13

Hopefully we will have something to release, but at moment discussions are on things either not worth releasing or that we don't wish to release.

IrishArmenian

06-18-2006, 18:53

If you need a researcher, I am eager to help this mod, and that seems to be the only thing I am good at.

shifty157

06-20-2006, 04:49

Hey guys. Sorry for the lack of anything. We're currently working hard to get you the next update. We had quite a large hiccup there for a bit while everyone was taking their final exams which resulted in no work ebing done and a subsequent delay in the update but we're back on track now. We should hopefully have the update posted in the next two weeks.

The update will focus on a single faction and will include a map, the present historical situation for the faction, short biographies on the important characters that youll have to manage, and a unit or two. The update will also include some more details on the major features we talked about in our first update. It should be rather exciting so keep an eye on this thread because ill be cracking the whip on the team to finish up research for the update.

If anyone would like to join our team wed be more than happy to have you. We only require that you make the commitment to visit the forums on a near daily basis and contribute to research and discussion. If you want to join the team then please register and post on our official forums saying exactly what you can do.

Have you thought of how are you going to include the Kingdom of Aragon and the county of Barcelona?

Aragon and the County of Barcelona merged very soon after our start date so for the sake of simplicity we are placing them as already united in the mod.

shifty157

06-21-2006, 05:05

I should have our second official update ready for you by the end of the week so keep your eyes open and watching this thread. I just finished writing the majority of the update and Im just waiting on a bit more research to complete it.

Just as a sneak peek Ill tell you that the faction we'll be covering is the Kingdom of England and let me tell you that it will be a very interesting faction to play in the game.

Ignoramus

06-21-2006, 05:27

Why is there a unified Italian faction?

shifty157

06-21-2006, 06:05

I assume by "unified Italian faction" you mean the provinces in Northern Italy. These represent the Lombard League, an alliance of many prominent northern Italian cities to contest the rule of Holy Roman Emporer Frederick the First.

At this point in history (our starting date) the Lombard league is actually part of the HRE although in reality only by name. The Italian cities being so far away from the emporer enjoyed practical independence. In a series of wars starting in 1167 the Lombard League (with Papal support)effectively fought off encroachments from the North by the Holy Roman Emporer Frederick the First and later Frederick the Second who had invaded in an effort to gain greater control over what were technically his domains. Once Frederick the Second had finally been defeated and the northern Italian states had gained their true independance from the HRE the Lombard League (its common enemy gone) dissolved in 1250 never to be reformed.

So while the Lombard League is not technically a faction when the game begins as it is a part of the HRE it does enjoy great independence from the very beginning. Its great amount of independence allows it to be its own faction while at the game's start it will be very closely allied (as close as possible) to the HRE.

It is a very similar situation to the factions of Parthia and Bactria in the Rome: Total Realism mod.

shifty157

06-25-2006, 05:56

Hello everyone. Its been a while since our first update and we're sorry for that but life can get in the way at times. You can find our first update here:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/i...p?showtopic=189 (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/index.php?showtopic=189)
Enjoy Update 2: The English.

The Kingdom of England
http://www.heraldique-europeenne.org/Regions/Iles_Britanniques/Blasons/Angleterre.gif

Map of England and surrounding areas
https://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2848/preview21bu.png
Province Capitals
SCOTLAND:
Dunbar - Edinburgh
Strachclyde - Dunbretane
Fyfe - Dunkeld

ENGLAND:
Normandie - Rouen
Kent - London
Cornwall - Bristol
Mercia - Leicester
York - York
Northumberland - Durham

FRANCE:
Francia - Paris
Vermandois - Laon

REBEL:
Argyll - Urquhart
The Isles - Stornochway
Wales - Rhuddlan
Ulster - Armagh
Leinster - Dublin
Munster - Cork
Bretagne - Rennes
Anjou - Angers
Artois - Arras
Flandre - Gand

Background
The year is 1073 and it has been a long six years since King Harold's defeat by William the Duke of Normandy at the battle we know of today as the battle of Hastings. He was crowned at Westminster Abbey as William the First, King of England on December 25. Since then William has had his hands full subduing his new aquisitions as well as other ambitious rivals with an eye on his still unsteady throne. Southern England submitted relatively quickly to his rule but in the North and in the Welsh Marches strong resistence continued. Harold's illegitimate sons invaded the island with a claim to the throne. Even the Danes and the Scots invaded England in their efforts to supplant William. For six long years war raged constantly in England yet William managed to fight back all of his assailants. Finally now the turmoil and rebellion and outside aggressions have come to what seems to be an end.
Having just returned from his campaign in the Northern provinces in his most recent effort to quell the constant rebellions (his campaign which was historically his final campaign in the North quickly became known as The Harrowing of the North as William employed scorched earth tactics and quite literally raised every useable structure and field to the ground in an effort to finally end the revolts) William has taken the respite in battle to return to his home in Normandy.

Current Situation
While England has the potential to become a very powerful country in Europe it is still in a state of turmoil. Southern England is firmly under your control as it has willingly adopted Norman rule and culture yet even under these favorable conditions the Norman and Anglo-Saxon cultures still have a way to go before they fully merge into a single English culture. In the North Norman rule has been accepted only grudgingly and Norman culture even less so. The Northern provinces remain unhappy and nearly rebellious even after years of failed open rebellion. Your Harrowing has reduced these provinces to a wasteland of what they once were leaving the populace disheartened and without the infrastructure to easily organize further rebellions. Yet resentment and anger still run deep and it may only take very little instigation (whether from yourself or from an angry nobleman or even from outside your realm) to send the populace to arms yet again. The Northern provinces will have to be completely rebuilt in a new more Norman-friendly fashion if they are to become profitable. Indeed all of England needs to be consolidated under your rule before it can achieve its full potential.
Your six years of war have left you with many enemies abroad. Scotland in the North provided funds and aid for many rebellions and made its lands open as a staging ground from which others could launch invasions into England. The Scots even invaded England themselves with a claim to the English throne. The Danes from Denmark and Norway provided Harold's sons with troops and supplies to invade England and they too invaded on their own claims to the throne. You have never held good relations with the French who still view the Normans as foreign invaders on their land and make it clear that had they had the power to do so they would quickly and forcibly remove you from Normandy. The French however are having their own troubles and for now keep quiet but in time they may gather enough power to fulfill their threats. Such avid aggression cannot be taken lightly and must be punished in time. For now however you must make your decisions wisely as one misstep could undo everything you have fought for.

Notable Nobles
These are the nobles you will have to manage (in one way or another) through the early years of your reign.

Odo of Bayeux
Background:
Odo is your half-brother (you both have the same mother) and has for all your life been your closest ally and advisor. Had it not been for his help and support (both militarily and financially) your invasion of England would have never had a chance of even happening. He fought bravely with you at Hastings and for his integral role in the campaign you granted him the title of Earl of Kent soon after being crowned King of England yourself. Since then he has been bold and always loyal and has personally put down many rebellions and invasions in your name. By your side, Odo has become incredibly powerful. His wealth and estates are second only to your own (and a very close second at that). While you spent time in Normandy, Odo would often act as de facto ruler of England until your return.

The Man:
Odo however is an incredibly ambitious man to the point where he allows his ambition to rule his judgement and subsequently he will stoop to any level to gain more power and wealth. It is rumored (though everyone knows that the rumors are true no one will openly speak them out of fear) that Odo has gained his immense wealth through extortion and robbery and various other morally apalling methods. On the battlefield he has been merciless in dealing with rebels. In one particularly notable instance after a victory against an army of rebels he ordered every rebel to have his right foot cut off! Over time he has developed quite a strong reputation for being cruel, utterly devoid of morals, power hungry, and overwhelmingly ambitious. Odo however is not without his good traits as he has displayed his great skill as an architect and he is a well known patron of the arts and learning.

Gameplay:
Currently Odo is an incredibly powerful ally and general. He has shown his great skill in commanding large armies to victory and managing huge areas of land (even at times managing all of England in your absence). For these reasons he is a very powerful asset in helping to keep peace in England and in time exacting justice upon those foreign powers that challenge your rule as his reputation preceeds him and he is rightfully feared wherever he goes (whether at the head of an army or not). You must however be wary of his truly boundless ambition. While you are strong he will remain loyal but should he see opportunity to sieze the throne of England for himself he will doubtlessly take it to increase his own power and wealth.

Robert, Count of Mortain
Background:
Robert is also your half-brother (Odo's full brother) and has remained a close and faithful friend and advisor to you. He personally provided from his own wealth the bulk of the fleet which you used to embark to England on your great conquest. He accompanied and fought with you at the Battle of Hastings. Over the following years he gained huge amounts of land and wealth becoming the third most powerful man in England (behind yourself and his older brother Odo) and has played an integral role in helping to defeat many rebellions and invasions. Just recently for his services and loyalty you have given him the title of Earl of Cornwall though currently he resides at his home in Normandy.

The Man:
Robert is much more reserved than his older brother Odo. Indeed, Robert would much rather keep to himself and he subsequently plays a very little role in English politics though his power and wealth would guarantee him a good deal of influence. Some have suspected that Robert removes himself from the intrigue of the political world because he lacks the intelligence and cleverness to successfully navigate it. Despite this Robert has remained always a close friend and loyal ally to you throughout your reign and shows no intention of changing. His brother Odo however does not fail to capitalize on his brother's meekness and great wealth for his own ends. It is well known that Robert can be easily bullied by his much more outspoken brother to support him on various issues. For all this, Robert remains loving and loyal and quite content with his position.

Gameplay:
Robert has proven himself like his brother as a more than capable commander and manager as well as being more than loyal. Yet Robert shuns the political power and influence he could gain because unlike his brother he lacks initiative and is rather meek. This makes him a very powerful asset on the battlefield or managing a happy province but unlike his brother he would not be able to keep an entire rebellious province in good order by sheer force of presence. While his loyalty to you is without question you must be wary of Odo. If Odo is given an opportunity to succumb to his ambition he may bully his brother into joining him. You may be his King but Odo is his brother.

Ralph de Guader
Background:
Ralph is a nobleman who helped support your invasion of England and fought by your side at Hastings. After your crowning you granted him large estates in England for his service. In 1069 after defeating a force of invading Norsemen you granted him the title of Earl of Norfolk and Suffolk (one earldom not two). Currently he retains his title and lives peacefully and loyal.

The Man:
Ralph is a reasonably accomplished commander though not nearly of the caliber of your half-brothers or yourself. He is also a reasonable manager of his Earldom. Recently however and for reasons unknown to you he has begun to chafe at your rule and begrudges it more with each passing day.

Gameplay:
While Ralph is still under your control now he is slowly becoming angry with your rule. If this trend is allowed to continue along its current course he may quickly become openly rebellious. While he does not pose a significant threat on his own he is still a powerful man and he has many allies among the nobility.

Roger de Breteuil
Background:
Roger also aided your invasion of England and fought bravely at Hastings. In 1071 you granted him the title of Earl of Hereford for his services in defeating the rebellions and invasions following your crowning.

The Man:
Roger like his good friend and close ally Ralph has seen his share of battles and managerial affairs making him a versatile commander at your disposal. Unlike Ralph, Roger is much more influencial and plays a greater role in English politics. Roger also has a habit of always getting on your bad side by constantly ignoring your rule and orders and doing what he wants. Your reprimands over the years (both in deed and action) have allowed for a deep resentment for you to grow in him over the years and he at times will purposely disobey you for the sole sake of disobeying you.

Gameplay:
While at the moment Roger remains loyal and his disobediance of your orders remains relatively minor if he is allowed to continue on his current course his disobeyance will become ever more serious as his resentment toward you continues to grow. Such resentment can only lead to rebellion.

Your Provinces and Cities
Normandie
Though Normandie now only consists of a small part of your empire it still holds the largest place in your heart. It is firmly loyal in your hands even though its civil wars as a result of your father's death lasted over a decade consuming your entire childhood and early manhood until finally being put down after great effort. Indeed you had barely even become a man before you donned your armor to protect your throne from rival dukes and the determined French King and even expanded your borders and influence into Bretagne, Anjou, and Artois making all of these vassals to your rule. Since your conquest of England however your allies who were so adamantly loyal while your army stood on their borders have now either become unreliable or openly hostile. Now your most loved Duchy is potentially in mortal peril as it is surrounded by men eager to see your downfall and avenge the countless defeats you inflicted upon them. The French, the most hateful and hostile of these, who were once weak enough for you to defeat two of their armies in quick succession have since grown in power and influence and continue to grow every day. It is only a matter of time perhaps until those barons around your borders of Normandie submit themselves to the French cause (whether willingly or not). Indeed, France would like nothing better than to see you dead and your peoples permanently removed from their land and there are many around you who agree with them.

Kent
The earldom of Kent is currently under the rule of your half-brother Odo. Its prime city, London, is a very large city for its time and flourishes with trade and agricultural income. The residents of Kent are very loyal to you and indeed have been since your defeat of King Harold at Hastings. South-East England is the only region of England that was not the grounds of a major rebellion against your rule since your conquest. The people of London in particular are very loyal. Whether this is more the cause of the special priviledges you have given them or because of the several forts and castles you have built around the city to keep watch over it is a matter of debate. Regardless your hold on Kent is solid and unshakeable though the people despite your continuing efforts still hold to their Anglo-Saxon heritage. Your solid grip however is no reason to leave the province lightly garrisoned. Quite the contrary, Kent is only a small hope from the hostile province of Artois across the channel and perhaps in short time the French. The shallow shores of Kent also provide good landing ground for raiding parties from Norway and Denmark. The Thames though a great boon to trade could help an invading navy just as easily reach the gates of London.

Cornwall
The city of Bristol following your conquest was the first site for a major rebellion against your rule. The rebellion presented such a contest to your rule that you were forced to assemble an army and cross the hazardous channel from Normandie in the middle of winter (the most dangerous season in which to both cross the channel and summon an army). The rebellion was however promptly put down under your direction and a large castle was built in the city to keep watch over it. Following this rebellion however the residents of Bristol and indeed all of Cornwall submitted happily to your rule and became very loyal citizens. Many times since the citizens have bravely and successfully defended the city in your name against raiders and Welsh armies as it was a prominent target for both. While the Welsh still survive and actively raid and oppose you Bristol and all of Cornwall is not safe. Any serious invasion attempt by the Welsh strategically must go through the city of Bristol if it is to have any chance of success. This unfortunate location makes it an almost constant battle ground.

Mercia
Following the conquest Mercia was the site of several rebellions though none of them very threatening and all of them put down promptly by yourself or by local earls. The majority of these rebellions took place in the Welsh Marches which is a rugged and difficult region on the border with Wales. Its difficult terrain makes it rather far removed from the bulk of your Kingdom and its immediate proximity to the hostile Welsh makes it particularly susceptible to their influence. To this day the Welsh Marches are still a very untamed region in your empire. The majority of Mercia however has fallen loyaly into your rule and remains so though still predominently Anglo-Saxon in culture. Mercia's location as the central province in England makes a vital crossroad for the movement of troops and trade. The path of any invading army from any direction must lie through Mercia (and indeed any Welsh army has no choice but to cross Mercia). This location amkes it vital to your empire as if Mercia is taken then your kingdom is split and fighting becomes much more difficult.

York
York (both the province and the city) was a prime site for rebellion and invasion. Its inhabitants (far removed from the south and with a deep and powerful Anglo-Saxon heritage) resented your rule greatly and still do. The frequency of rebellion and the good deal of aid given to foreign invaders by the province eventually pushed you into your now infamous Harrowing of The North campaign in which you literally gave orders to burn down all useable structures, livestock, foodstores, and agricultural fields. The city of York itself was a prime target and was reduced to a ruin of its former proud self by your troops at which point by your order two castles were constructed in the city to discourage further revolt. This campaign crippled the infrastructure of the province and indeed had the intended result of ending any thoughts of rebellion. It also had the result of causing mass sarvation in the North and to a lesser extent in the rest of England ending in the death of unnumbered thousands. This campaign was considered by your own historians and iographers to be the most cruel and savage thing ever done to date under your reign. Since then the province has been rebuilt to some extent though not nearly to the level at which it stood before your harrowing. It still requires a great deal more work to become an asset to your Kingdom. The citizens have been broken to your rule and remain quietly loyal though discontent still runs rampant and the right instigation could easily rally the disheartened populace against you.

Northumberland
Even farther removed from your control base in Southern England than York, Northumberland has been the most turbulent region since your crowning in your entire Kingdom. It has perhaps been the site of more rebellions and invasions than all the rest of England combined. Scottish, Danish, and Norwegian influence is very strong in this region and invasions from any of these foreign powers and contenders to your throne have met only nominal resistence this far North. By destroying the province in your Harrowing invading armies and rebellions could no longer rely on the province's infrastructure for support. For this reason rebellions and invasions have to a great extent stopped since the Harrowing though they continued in weaker form for some tiem afterward. Ultimately the province has been broken to your rule though your Harrowing has left it crushed and barren and only many years of time and work will raise it back into a profitable and truly loyal region. Its border with Scotland makes it the site of many battles and campaigns and its people are subsequently hardy and capable in war. Its location also makes it the starting for the many Norwegian and Danish raiders who find a safe haven and base of operation in Scotland.

Unit Previews
Fyrdmen
https://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4702/fyrdman3oj.th.jpg (https://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=fyrdman3oj.jpg)
General Type: Light Spearmen
Equipment: Spear, dagger, shield, throwing club
Armour: Light (Textile)
Speed: Slow
Morale: Poor
Discipline: Average
Skill: Average
Can throw clubs before charge
Can form shield wall

In 1073 England is a land conquered. Yet the Norman grip has not fully solidified, so when there is a need for soldiers, they must sometimes turn to the old English system of the fyrd, or levy of all able-bodied men. The soldiers thus gained are fairly competent, but usually very reluctant and suspicious of their new overlords.

By law, all Englishmen had to serve a term in the army every year. This law eventually turned into the current fyrd system in which an earl or the king will summon together a fyrd in times of need assembled from the peasants of the region. Normally fyrds would be summoned in the spring (after the fields had been sewn) and be dismissed in the fall (just before harvest time).

The average Fyrdman has most likely been in battle at least once or twice during his life and so while he is not a professional soldier he does know how to handle himself in battle. He has no money for any armor (aside from perhaps a small leather cap) and fights with a spear and shield. He also carries into battle one or two throwing clubs (a simple rock tied to a stick) to harrass the enemy before the lines have met.

The Fyrdman will fight well especially when in the shield wall formation for which they are very well known. A commander should not forget however that these are merely light infantry unused to battle and with much to live for.

Norman Milites
https://img101.imageshack.us/img101/6398/normanmilite8ac.th.jpg (https://img101.imageshack.us/my.php?image=normanmilite8ac.jpg)
General Type: Heavy Cavalry
Equipment: Light lance, sword, shield
Armour: Heavy (Mail)
Speed: High
Morale: High
Discipline: Average
Skill: High

The milites were the precursors of the true knight, as the ideals of chivalry have yet to be developed, and milites themselves had yet to become an exclusive social caste – they were as yet merely professional warriors. The milites of the Normans were aggressive, cunning and often surprisingly disciplined soldiers. They are also capable of fighting quite competently on foot, making them an invaluable asset for any lord who can call upon them.

In battle these horsemen would be kept until the infantry had engaged for a time and then charge into the disorganized enemy lines to finish them off. Norman Milites form the backbone of any English army. Their skill and strong armor make them a versatile and effective force able to harass the enemy and then drive home the attack when the moment is right.

We hope youve enjoyed the update. Please post any thoughts or questions you may have we'll be glad to answer them. You can visit our main forums here:
http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/i...hp?showforum=13 (http://s15.invisionfree.com/Byzantium_TW/index.php?showforum=13)
We'll be back in about a month with another preview for you all.

Peasant Phill

06-26-2006, 09:54

great update. A lot of information about different things.

I really like the fact that Flanders will be rebel (as it was in all but name) and I hope that rebels will be more than just sitting ducks when attacked by a faction.
Will Flanders have a regional unit of some sort as their militia was on par with the Italians.

shifty157

06-26-2006, 14:36

Thanks.

Yes rebels will not be merely pushovers. When you think about it, had this mod started twenty or so years earlier the French Normans would have probably been a rebel province. A rather small duchy defeats in battle and conquers an entire Kingdom. Its a rather impressive story but it just goes to show how these small rebel provinces are anything but pushovers and can indeed become very powerful. But considering the way rebels are used in the total war series we will constrained by hardcode as to what we can do with them.

We haven't looked at the what units Flanders will have yet but im sure if they are as unique as you say they are then theyll get their own regional unit and/or mercenary.

The Wizard

06-26-2006, 15:40

Like with EB in times long past, I'll sign up as a researcher.

But, for the sake of my eyes and sanity, please change the name. The combination of Latin and English is distressing ~;p

Silver Rusher

07-06-2006, 20:37

You don't seem to have a campaign map maker yet. Unless somebody else has already stepped up, could I offer my services?

shifty157

07-07-2006, 04:10

Sorry we do have a mapper at the moment. Anti_Strunt has been creating all the maps you see so far and will also be making the actual map when the time comes.

If you can do anything else then we'd be glad to have you.

DukeofSerbia

07-07-2006, 19:21

https://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8170/senastekartan9ku.th.jpg (https://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=senastekartan9ku.jpg)

Excellent work. :2thumbsup: Finally I see good Balkan provinces.:balloon2: I suppose those two central green Balkan provinces are Serbia (one is Rascia and another is Zeta)? So, Serbia will be faction...

Congratulation!

shifty157

07-07-2006, 21:33

Thank you.

I dont know the province names but yes that is Serbia.

IrishArmenian

07-10-2006, 22:04

Alright. Nice England update. I can edit text files, I will just need to learn how. But I guess I can in the next couple of months. Ok, I get your point Shifty- forigve me, I just love the idea of this mod. The map makes it look like there will be A Novorgood faction AND a Moscow faction. Is that true?

shifty157

07-10-2006, 22:13

Well technically we still haven't fully deicded to let you join yet. Although I dont think theres much of a chance we wont let you join. That said youd still have to go through the process of getting access to our developer forums.

I also hope you'll be ready to help out with the modding when the game comes out. Even just editting text files is a big help and its incredibly easy to learn and do.

anti_strunt

07-11-2006, 18:56

Excellent work. :2thumbsup: Finally I see good Balkan provinces.:balloon2: I suppose those two central green Balkan provinces are Serbia (one is Rascia and another is Zeta)? So, Serbia will be faction...

Correct - the provinces represent the principalities of Rashka and Zeta.

shifty157

07-12-2006, 00:14

Just to bring this to everyone's attention that our official .org thread has moved to the new MTW2 Modification forum. We will continue to update this thread with our public previews however I would suggest that questions and comments be posted on that thread and not this one.

You can find the new thread here:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=66870