China Doesnt Deserve Olimpic Games Of 2008!!! [Archive]

PROMETHEUS

02-22-2006, 21:56

https://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8924/16wb2.gif

Support the Tibetan Cause free Tibet , use this signature if you want to partecipate ...

u can use this Tag in ur Signature

https://img60.imageshack.us/img60/401/1copia2cn.gif (http://www.2008-freetibet.org/)
English site (http://www.2008-freetibet.org/)

[Turin] Today the hunger strikers were greeted by Paolo Pobbiati, President of Italian section Amnesty International. His relationship with Ven. Palden Gyatso dates back to 1995 when Amnesty was able to host him on a long Italian tour soon after his release from prison and escape in exile. A deeply moved Paolo Pobbiati remained for quite some time in the company of Palden Gyatso. A new press conference was held in the afternoon with the presence of Bruno Mellano from Radical Party, MP Laura Cima, Paolo Pobbiati, Tamdin Choephel and Pema Yancghen. Tibetan doctor Thupten Tsering arrived from Bologna to provide medical advise and assistance to the hunger strikers.

http://www.games-of-beijing.org/images/newsimages/SanPietro.jpg

RAI 3 National News Channel carried out interviews and filming of the three brave Tibetans. National newspaper ‘il Riformista’ featured an article calling for all journalists to pay homage to brave Tibetan monk Palden Gyatso and to write up about the Tibetan hunger strike in Torino during these Winter Olympics. There are 3,000 journalists in town to cover the games of 2,500 athletes. Encouraging and inspiring support e-mails keep flowing in from around the world. Some messages are very profound and emotional.

Devastatin Dave

02-22-2006, 22:00

Quick!!! To the Backroom!!!
Duna-duna-duna-duna-duna-duna-duna-duna Backroom!!! Backroom!!! Duna-duna-duna-duna-duna-duna!!!! Back room, backroom!!! Bam!!! Pow!!! Clunk!!!

(sung to the tune of Batman for all you unimaginative people)

PROMETHEUS

02-22-2006, 22:25

I don't understand what you meant ...

Devastatin Dave

02-22-2006, 22:29

Its just that this topic is kind of political and could get heated. Instead of the Frontroom of the Tavern, it would have probably been better posted in the Backroom. No offense to you my friend, just an opinion. Have you ever seen the TV episodes of Batman. If so, you might have understood I was trying to be funny. I'm such a failure!!!:laugh4:

Papewaio

02-23-2006, 01:03

Sure lets boycot the Olimpic Games.

China can keep the Olympic Games however...

Beirut

02-23-2006, 01:03

Free Tibet!

Now that that's out of my system...

To the Backroom - and awaaaaaaayyyyyyyy!

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-23-2006, 01:08

Tibet is far from the only reason to bar the Games from China.

The best we can hope for is the 'Lympics to continue to tank and that China builds a bunch of shiny new stadiums for nothing.

Of course, they could be converted to concentra- I mean, uh, re-education camps. :help:

Ice

02-23-2006, 01:34

I'd have to agree.

Don Corleone

02-23-2006, 02:37

You guys really ought to go there and meet a few of them before you start with these blanket condemnations.

What they did in Tibet is certainly wrong by our standards, but to them, it's no different than the US Civil War. In their minds, Tibet is no different than South Carolina in 1864: Rebellious and keeping the nation from reaching it's full potential.

I'm not defending their view, I personally disagree with it. But frankly, a lot of their arguments ring true with me. If you want to convince Beijing that their policies towards Tibet and Taiwan are wrong (and I do agree they are) ask yourself, how would you persuade Lincoln to pursue a peaceful re-unification? As they say, they waited 120 years to get Tibet back and they've waited 50 for Taiwan. Lincoln gave it about 30 days.

Trust me, you will search long and hard before you find a friendlier and more hospitable people. Demonizing and villifying them and cutting them out of polite circles will not help, as they are a proud people as well. Given what they've given the world over the past 4000 years, I'd say they have a right to be.

DemonArchangel

02-23-2006, 02:58

Prometheus, you can free Tibet by yourself. I'll be in Beijing enjoying some great food and watching the Olympics.

And at least they won't have vapid 80's pop music at the Beijing Olympics. The Italians don't deserve Torino because it's basically boring and really not worth watching.

Seamus Fermanagh

02-23-2006, 02:59

I'm not exactly a sinophile, as a number of my earlier posts will confirm, but it strikes me that having the Olympics "taken away" from a country because we believe that country does not represent the best ideals in human rights is opening a BIG can of worms.

Remember:

Paris 1900 -- French lording it over Indochina and chunks of Africa
London 1908 -- The Sun had not set on the Empire and wogs could NOT check in at the Raffles
Berlin 1936 -- Hope you enjoyed the games, now please give me the Rhineland
Moscow 1980 -- a little distraction from their foray into Afghanistan
Los Angeles 1984 and Atlanta 1996 -- games hosted by "the great Satan"

Its the olympics. There's enough politics in them already. More would not help.

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-23-2006, 03:22

DC - I'm more concerned with the government's policy of ruthlessly crushing all forms of dissent than Tibet. :bow:

Don Corleone

02-23-2006, 03:27

I don't support that either, but do you know it happens the way you read about it in papers?

Let me ask the question another way...

If China is as draconian as western media makes it out to be, how is it that there are mass farmer uprisings when a power plant leaks? Don't you think those guys would be in fear for their life and not worry about their crops if the PLA was kicking in doors on a nightly basis?

What's more, you ever notice the phone click when you say the b-word and mention the government?

Ice

02-23-2006, 03:45

What's more, you ever notice the phone click when you say the b-word and mention the government?

You've caught my attention, tell me more.

Don Corleone

02-23-2006, 03:50

What's to tell? It's not like the government doesn't monitor us. It's not a question of 'if', it's a question of 'how much'.

Sure, by our standards, China pushes the whole surveilance thing a bit further than we would appreciate, but I'll tell you, having been there, lived there and done business there, it's not as bad as some 'free' countries.

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-23-2006, 03:53

Weren't they imprisoning members of "illegal" churches in the last decade if not more recent?

Ice

02-23-2006, 03:53

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-23-2006, 03:55

*click*

:hide:

Papewaio

02-23-2006, 03:58

I wonder if bombastic is a trigger word. :idea2:

Don Corleone

02-23-2006, 04:12

Weren't they imprisoning members of "illegal" churches in the last decade if not more recent?

Weren't we?

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-23-2006, 04:21

Ummm. Not to my knowledge.

:inquisitive:

Also to my knowledge, the only thing the house churches in China did wrong was ignore the government's ban on unofficial churches. I suspect churches prosecuted in the US were up to something less noble.

:inquisitive:

Don Corleone

02-23-2006, 04:26

Other than finding it's way onto the official "Janet Reno doesn't like you" list, would you care to tell me what the Branch Davidians had done that every man, woman and child inside the compound deserved to be torched alive?

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-23-2006, 04:35

Awww crap for crap. Forgot about that. :shame: Good point.

Though I still would argue that America is more free, for now, than China. And that China is still "evil" in the sense that the USSR was an "evil" - no matter how good the people there are, their government is still bad.

And I still hope China wastes a lot of money on the Games.

Don Corleone

02-23-2006, 04:51

I am not trying to argue that life in China is better or freer than it is right here in the US of A. Believe me. I'm trying to say we're talking about the difference between mauve and purple, not red and blue. We sound a bit naive and silly when we say things like "it's night and day difference". No, it's dusk and twilight different...

lars573

02-23-2006, 05:10

CHINA KEEPS TIBET FOREVER!
DOWN WITH THAT WRINKLED POS THE DALAI LAMA!

*note*The above is not sarcasm I really beleive those words with all my heart.

Zalmoxis

02-23-2006, 05:56

The government of China has the right to watch you, it has been given to it by the great wisdom of the ancients. If you disagree, the ancients say it's alright to censor you.

JimBob

02-23-2006, 06:29

would you care to tell me what the Branch Davidians had done that every man, woman and child inside the compound deserved to be torched alive?
The Branch Davidians shot and killed 4 ATF agents and wounded 16 more. Those agents were enforcing a legal warrant. There is zero concrete evidence that the FBI started the fire. There is also zero concrete evidence that the Davidians started the fire. It could very well have been an accident that no one foresaw. It is tragic, but there is no great government conspiracy here, there are plenty, go look.

Crazed Rabbit

02-23-2006, 08:32

The Branch Davidians shot and killed 4 ATF agents and wounded 16 more. Those agents were enforcing a legal warrant. There is zero concrete evidence that the FBI started the fire. There is also zero concrete evidence that the Davidians started the fire. It could very well have been an accident that no one foresaw. It is tragic, but there is no great government conspiracy here, there are plenty, go look.

They were investigating the Davidans on charges that later turned out false. And there's a hell of a lot of evidence out there. The place went up because of what the gov't tanks (Tanks!) fired in there. The gov't wanted to smack those people down, and they did that. Those scum attacking the Davidans deserved death, as do all agents of tyranny. The Davidans had done nothing illegal.

Just like when the FBI killed a man's kid and assasinated his wife after laying siege to his house on account of charges that later turned out to be false.

Luckily, when they (or was it some immigration agency? The thugs with SMGs begin to blend together) burst into a Miami home to steal a kid from his relatives and hand him over to a communist regime, they weren't so trigger happy. Perhaps because the media were there.

Nevertheless, I still think we're somewhat better than China, though the gov't can't be blameless in such reprehensible incidents as Waco and Ruby Ridge.

Crazed Rabbit

Shadow

02-23-2006, 08:43

My personal option is that Tibet is better off with the Chinese government then gaining independent after all you guys can see that Mongolia after breaking off from china is in a worse state then before, after the collapse of the USSR

kataphraktoi

02-23-2006, 09:14

Every freaking country has occupied someone else's land. PERIOD....

Every freaking country uses repressive measures. Doesn't matter if its harsh or less harsh, its still freakin repressive.

Tibet doesn't need freedom, it needs economic development.

You think Tibet would be better off under a Theocratic Lamaists rule as nice as that Dalai Lama dude is?

Oh come on...before Tibet turned into the world's 'favourite' victim by lefties, musicians and idealists, the Lamaists of Tibet were just as cruel, repressive, dictatorial and religiously INTOLERANT. Tell the world the truth of Lamaist rule and they could easily become a target of UN's Human Right's COmmission.

One of their favourite punishments was to sow u up in some animal's skin and wait for it to shrink when it dries crushing u to death in the process.

econ21

02-23-2006, 11:19

Those scum attacking the Davidans deserved death, as do all agents of tyranny.

Wow - this certainly puts your support for public ownership of large calibre sniper rifles into a new perspective. :dizzy2:

Kanamori

02-23-2006, 11:34

Many Chinese live in Tibet now, it's too late to 'free Tibet'. How many displaced peoples' land are you living on anyways? Are you prepared to give it back?

Ianofsmeg16

02-23-2006, 12:27

FREE THE NATIVE AMERICANS
While you're all so happy about freeing tibet, how about you give the Native Americans their land back?

Mount Suribachi

02-23-2006, 12:32

Tibet is far from the only reason to bar the Games from China.

Exactly. The imprisonment of hundreds of thousands of Christians without trial springs to mind. Many of them executed. But hey, they're only Christians right? Nowhere near as trendy a celebrity cause as Tibet. Or the Falung Gong.

And before anyone asks, I've met Chinese Christians and I've met Christians who've been to China (ever been followed everywhere by the secret police?)

Kanamori

02-23-2006, 12:42

For a security check, yes.~;)

Husar

02-23-2006, 13:40

ever been followed everywhere by the secret police?
As long as they just follow, you´re pretty safe from robbers and other scum I guess...:2thumbsup:
Oh, wait, there´s no scum in China, everybody is a nice, smiling, happy, government-supporting, communistic citizen there.:idea2:

http://www.chinafaces.net/images/offers/rural-propaganda-5-leaders.jpg

Reenk Roink

02-23-2006, 17:38

All my clothes are from China...:blank:

I'm torn...:dizzy2:

Haven't I always said, the world would be a lot better if I was in charge...:shifty:

Adrian II

02-23-2006, 18:07

https://img52.imageshack.us/img52/8924/16wb2.gif

Support the Tibetan Cause free Tibet (..)Have you weighed the pros and cons of this, or is it just a gut reaction? In the long run these Games could have a positive effect on Chinese society. In the long run, maybe Tibet will benefit more from a democratisation of China than from a re-feudalisation under the auspices of the Old Wrinkle. If you disagree, please state your case.

Viking

02-24-2006, 16:05

FREE THE NATIVE AMERICANS
While you're all so happy about freeing tibet, how about you give the Native Americans their land back?

We must boycott the next US olympics because of Guantanamo!!!

:book:

Ianofsmeg16

02-24-2006, 16:24

We must boycott the next US olympics because of Guantanamo!!!

:book:
:knight:

Seamus Fermanagh

02-24-2006, 16:38

We must boycott the next US olympics because of Guantanamo!!!

:book:

No! The USA should boycott the olympics because none of our athletes can live up to our own ability to OVERHYPE EVERYTHING TO THE POINT OF NAUSEA (all-caps used to illustrate through absurdity)!

Our headlines today say Ms. Cohen "settled" for a silver....

So being among the best skaters on the face of the planet is little more than a consolation prize...

Most Yanks couldn't find Shanghai on a map and can't place more than 60% of the countries of the world onto the correct continent, but we "know" how the Olympics should turn out.:wall:

Monarch

02-24-2006, 16:45

The Olympic games isn't about politics or anything else but sport.

Papewaio

02-25-2006, 04:53

The Olympic games isn't about politics or anything else but sport.

I assume that is a prime example of dry British wit...

Soulforged

02-25-2006, 06:07

Have you weighed the pros and cons of this, or is it just a gut reaction? In the long run these Games could have a positive effect on Chinese society. In the long run, maybe Tibet will benefit more from a democratisation of China than from a re-feudalisation under the auspices of the Old Wrinkle. If you disagree, please state your case.Exactly, specially the last part.

Orda Khan

02-25-2006, 12:58

Unfortunately Tibet has no oil, maybe if this were the case the 'west' would show some interest. In the meantime, the 6,000 Buddhist monastries destroyed, over one million people murdered and the toxic waste being dumped will be ignored. Just as happened in Inner Mongolia, the sweet Chinese have followed a policy of 'breeding them out' by flooding the place with Han Chinese. If the tyranny of the Iraqi administration was so bad that a war was the outcome, how would we class the darling Chinese? The World watched footage of the student protest and the way in which it was squashed and we did NOTHING. Where were the American Global Police then? Oh yes I forgot, the Chinese are a bit more of a handful than those poor Moslems aren't they?

It may be the opinion of a few posters that His Holiness the Dalai Lama is a wrinkly POS but as a Buddhist I find that remark extremely offensive and it surprises me that it has not been edited by a Moderator or is offense reserved only for anti Moslem outbursts?

As for Beijing, I was astonished when they were granted the games. I hope all who go there enjoy the spectacle. For anyone who is concerned about Tibet there is a Free Tibet Rally in London March 11th, I'll see you there

..........Orda

Ianofsmeg16

02-25-2006, 13:11

Adrian II

02-25-2006, 13:49

Unfortunately Tibet has no oil, maybe if this were the case the 'west' would show some interest.You must realise that not everyone accepts the romanticised Hollywood version of Tibet and the Dalai Lama as its 'spiritual' representative. Much of what you state is not supported by research or serious argumentation. The number of 1.2 million dead Tibetans is a blatant overstatement, the number of 400.000 deaths is more likely. The number of 6000 destroyed Tibetan monastries does not reflect actual Chinese policy; the destruction occurred during the Cultural Revolution when thousands of temples, shrines and libraries across all of China were destroyed by Red Guards. Your statement that the world did nothing in the aftermath of the Tiananmen unrest is untrue.

The Dalai Lama does not deserve the respect he is given by American Budhists, who seem to have bough into his mythical image. Before the Old Wrinkle was chased from Tibet in 1959, the country was a feudal theocracy. The arable land was mostly in the hands of religious or secular estates worked by serfs. These estates were among the largest in the world and amassed enormous, improductive riches in the coffers of the monastical orders and servants of the autocratic Dalai Lama. Domestic slavery was hereditary. Runaway serfs and slaves were caught by the 'peaceful' Budhist army of Tibet and punished by such medieval means as public torture and mutilation, eye gouging, pulling out of tongues, slicing off kneecaps and hamstringing. His Holiness my foot!

So please answer my questions. Wouldn't Tibet be better off as part of a future Chinese democracy than if the Dalai Lama were allowed to restore his power? And don't you think the Games would be another step toward the opening of Chinese society to the world?

Orda Khan

02-25-2006, 14:07

https://img115.imageshack.us/img115/4886/tibetflag013sg.jpg
* In the centre stands a magnificent thickly snow clad mountain, which represents the great nation of Tibet, widely known as the Land Surrounded by Snow Mountains.
* Across the dark blue sky six red bands spread representing the original ancestors of the Tibetan people: the six tribes called Se, Mu, Dong, Tong, Dru and Ra which in turn gave the [twelve] descendants. The combination of six red bands (for the tribes) and six dark blue bands for the sky represents the incessant enactment of the virtuous deeds of protection of the spiritual teachings and secular life by the black and red guardian protector deities with which Tibet has had connection for a very long time.
* At the tip of the snow mountain, the sun with its rays brilliantly shining in all directions represents the equal enjoyment of freedom, spiritual and material happiness and prosperity by all beings in the land of Tibet.
* On the slopes of the mountain there proudly stand a pair of snow lions blazing with the manes of fearlessness, which represent the country's victorious accomplishment of a unified spiritual and secular life.
* The three-sided yellow border represents the flourishing of the Buddha's teachings. The side without a border represents Tibet's openness to non-Buddhist thought.
* The beautiful and radiant three coloured jewel held aloft represents the ever-present reverence respectfully held by the Tibetan people towards the Three Supreme Jewels (the Buddhist objects of refuge: Buddha, Dharma and Sangha).
* The two coloured swirling jewel held between the two lions represents the peoples' guarding and cherishing the self discipline of correct ethical behaviour, principally represented by the practices of the ten exalted virtues and the 16 humane modes of conduct.

Wouldn't Tibet be better off as part of a future Chinese democracy
Chinese democracy? That is a vague description if ever I saw one. And my answer is NO
Furthermore, I am not a 'romanticised American Buddhist' and human rights issues are posted on numerous websites so you have no need to question my statements

........Orda

rory_20_uk

02-25-2006, 14:23

To say that the wrld would mess with China regardless of the attributes of Tibet is naive to say the least.

Tibet is a very inaccessable place. How the hell are the allies going to get there? There are practically no allies in the area.

China has a massive and increasingly sophisticated armed forces. Yes, they can be beaten, but at what cost.

China has nukes.

China is an increasing economic power house. It helps bankroll American debt to the tune of billions per year. America can do without it, but it'd hurt a lot more than Iraq.

The West blubbs if one soldier is killed. China would fight a strategic battle, and can suffer far, far greater losses.

China needs the oil. Even if Tibet had (or indeed might have - no one knows) masses of oil, China would use it all as an assured source.

The Chinese are peacefully outbreeding the locals. Is that too now a crime? We may trumpet a free society, but it seems that there are some things that are not allowed, such as anything by those we dislike.

China is joining the world as fast as it can. Although one might like to turn history back / sideways / go off on a compltely different tangent, the reality is that China has annexed the lands (New Mexico, anyone?), and that is the new reality. Witholding the games will anger China, nothing more.

Orda Khan good info on the flag. Erm, does it mean the nicer the flag, the more deserving the country has for freedom. :artist:

~:smoking:

Adrian II

02-25-2006, 14:23

(..) human rights issues are posted on numerous websites so you have no need to question my statements.Oh but I do, and I have shown you why. I have read His Holiness' autobiography and I was not impressed by the way he totally ignores all the human rights issues under his own regime. I realised he was totally bonkers when he wrote about the way he treated the birds in his backyard, feeding the sparrows whilst shooting the larger birds with an air-rifle to keep them away...

lars573

02-25-2006, 16:17

After reading about the other hill kingdoms around Tibet (Nepal and Bhutan) I realized that Tibet must have been the same. And that the Dalai Lama was no different than the Iranian Ayatollahs. The Chinese have done more good for Tibet in the 20th century than the his unholiness the wrinkly POS has ever done. Or could ever do.

Another thing is that free-Tibet-drones always hold up the human rights abuses of the PRC as proof Tibet needs freedom. And take those abuses completly out of friggin context. The way free-Tibet-drones make it look like the PRC went out if it's way to kill Tibetans. Like they were some how singled out for special attention. Under Mao no diccent was tolerated. If you stepped out of line you died, and it might not always be pretty. The Han suffered more than the other ethnic groups in China. So if anyone has legit beef with the PRC it's them.

Orda Khan

02-25-2006, 20:39

his unholiness the wrinkly POS
Repetition? You obviously like that term or is it that you simply can not dream up another? If you try really hard you may be able to think up a wittier one

........Orda

AquaLurker

02-25-2006, 20:50

Great...lets bash China for the sake of bashing.

Strike For The South

02-25-2006, 21:52

FREE THE NATIVE AMERICANS
While you're all so happy about freeing tibet, how about you give the Native Americans their land back?

but there are no indains left

DemonArchangel

02-26-2006, 00:32

For crap's sake, the Dalai Lama was a human rights abuser, and if Chinese intelligence forces ever find and extract him, I hope they take a long, VERY long time to kill him. Let's face it, the West is only for freeing Tibet because they dislike China for its supposed Communism and because many of these bleeding heart "Free Tibet" bobblehead idiots are completely ignorant of what goes on China or what it's like there.

Alexander the Pretty Good

02-26-2006, 00:37

As if China was a paragon of (classical) liberalism and freedom. :juggle2:

Byzantine Prince

02-26-2006, 00:59

Holy crap I never knew the lamaists were so brutal. Who would have thought, they look so peaceful with their meditations and messages of peace around the world. Bleugh! And to think we admire the Dalai Lama here in Canada. We had a huge celebration when he came to speak.

I mean I kind of susupected something was wrong when I wondered how the hell these people could sit on their ass all day and live in huge monasteries filled with gold. I mean where is the all the freaken money comeing from? :inquisitive:

Soulforged

02-26-2006, 01:41

As if China was a paragon of (classical) liberalism and freedom. :juggle2:As if liberalism was the paradigm of all that is good and just.:juggle2: :laugh4:

Holy crap I never knew the lamaists were so brutal. Who would have thought, they look so peaceful with their meditations and messages of peace around the world. Bleugh! And to think we admire the Dalai Lama here in Canada. We had a huge celebration when he came to speak.Yes: "Life is an illusion", as such good and evil are illusions too, so a budhist wouldn't care about illusions.

PROMETHEUS

02-26-2006, 03:53

Byzantine Prince

02-26-2006, 04:00

Yes: "Life is an illusion", as such good and evil are illusions too, so a budhist wouldn't care about illusions.
So what?

Incongruous

02-26-2006, 05:46

As per usual, people (you know who you are) are defending an evil adminastration for no good reason. It's no good to say that when you were there it all seemed just dandy, niether is it any good to say that you feel Tibet is better off with China. Evey nation deserves the choice of freedom (something armericans profess without any real backbone), and the fact is that as long as it's under Chinese control Tibet will never have that choice.
People are being attacked for defending such rights because their nation once did exactly the same thing a long time ago such attacks constantly stand in the way of progress.
So why not simply tackle the problem presented you instead of using it to attack someone else.

lars573

02-26-2006, 06:45

Repetition? You obviously like that term or is it that you simply can not dream up another? If you try really hard you may be able to think up a wittier one

........Orda
I do like it and it's suitable. I see no need to give his un-holiness the wrinkly POS a better insulting moniker. He's not worth it.

Soulforged

02-26-2006, 18:39

Evey nation deserves the choice of freedom (something armericans profess without any real backbone), and the fact is that as long as it's under Chinese control Tibet will never have that choice.That's of course based on the concept of nation, so if you consider the nation to be the territory under the power of the state then yes it will be independent and free again. But if you consider the nation to be the people who habitate a certain territory, with the same culture and a common history, then they'll not be free at all, they'll have a feudal state over their heads again, repeating the brutal violations to moral principles that they did when poor Dalai Lama was in fact on power. I agree with you, they diserve a choice, but for them there's no choice, if some force helps the Tibet to get rid of China then it's the Dalai Lama who'll enter the power again and not anyone who they want. Then the most probable thing is that you'll see people protesting against the supposedly "free Tibet".

AquaLurker

02-26-2006, 19:31

Husar

02-27-2006, 00:43

every one has the rioght to live how he feels to in his own country
So in the end, everybody needs his own country...:dizzy2: :inquisitive:

Papewaio

02-27-2006, 08:16

U measure development by european and western standards , .... a man in borneo tribe is as rich as Bill gates becouse doesnt needs much more than what he has and that's all he wants , contaminate those lands with western standards and they will become suddenly poor , poor for us but not at their own eyes... every one has the rioght to live how he feels to in his own country ....

Right, so why is the first luxury things that they acquire is a satellite dish and a TV.

But before that they really love the water pumps and mediciene. Most people like the idea that they won't die of a cold at the age of 40, that they can save most of their children by going to a local clinic, that they can get reliable water.

After their needs have been attended, they love watching TV like the rest of us. They like getting vehicles and tools that make their lives easier. They will educate their kids once they see the advantages.

What most people fail to realise when seeing the people of the jungle life just how short a life expectancy some of them have without medical supplies, and how many children die at childbirth and how few disabled can be looked after by their families.

Samurai Waki

02-27-2006, 08:31

Thats why we need to free Native North Americans...

The Native Americans are free:inquisitive: they can leave the reservations any time they want too, the only reason that they do stay, is so they don't have to work (I can justify saying this because I have lived near Reservations and have had quite a few Native American Friends), and can live under government pensions for the rest of their lives. Not only that, the reservations are sovereign nations, and so they can make whatever laws that they like... and still receive tax benefits from the rest of the US, even though they don't have to pay taxes themselves.

What makes Freeing Tibet different then say, "freeing" the Native Americans, or for you guys in the UK, freeing Scotland, or Wales, or the people in Australia, giving back all your land to the Aborigines. Is that the annexation of Tibet is still fresh in a lot of peoples memories.

Obviously, the Native Americans today have no right to take away the lands of people that have been living in their former lands for generations, because A. None of them were alive when the atrocities happened, and B. No One Today was alive when those atrocities happened. The only thing that can wash away the wounds of those terrible acts is to let time heal it, if the government up and said non- Natives must concede their lands to the Natives, then we'd have a civil war on our hands, if we did peacefully concede our lands, then the Natives wouldn't last too long, nor would they like it, because both sides have integrated their cultures together, and they depend on government support and balance as much as we do. And you must also remember, that most Americans consider themselves 'Native Americans'.

Just A Girl

02-27-2006, 10:12

BLOW IT ALL UP.
TIBET.
AMERICA.
WALES.
SCOTLAND.
RUSSIA.
COLUMBIA.
VIETNAM
All NATIVE PEOPLE EVERY WHERE.
THE OLYMPICS.
And anything els you can think of.

Just push the big red button. And get rid of it all.
Would stop pointelss arguments.

AquaLurker

02-27-2006, 20:08

The Native Americans are free:inquisitive: they can leave the reservations any time they want too, the only reason that they do stay, is so they don't have to work (I can justify saying this because I have lived near Reservations and have had quite a few Native American Friends), and can live under government pensions for the rest of their lives. Not only that, the reservations are sovereign nations, and so they can make whatever laws that they like... and still receive tax benefits from the rest of the US, even though they don't have to pay taxes themselves.

You notice that I was exercising PROMETHEUS's "Logic" do you?

What makes Freeing Tibet different then say, "freeing" the Native Americans, or for you guys in the UK, freeing Scotland, or Wales, or the people in Australia, giving back all your land to the Aborigines. Is that the annexation of Tibet is still fresh in a lot of peoples memories.

Edit:Ahh...

Obviously, the Native Americans today have no right to take away the lands of people that have been living in their former lands for generations, because A. None of them were alive when the atrocities happened, and B. No One Today was alive when those atrocities happened. The only thing that can wash away the wounds of those terrible acts is to let time heal it, if the government up and said non- Natives must concede their lands to the Natives, then we'd have a civil war on our hands, if we did peacefully concede our lands, then the Natives wouldn't last too long, nor would they like it, because both sides have integrated their cultures together, and they depend on government support and balance as much as we do. And you must also remember, that most Americans consider themselves 'Native Americans'.

Edit:Good, therefore, lets bash China before Tibet's freshness is out.

Samurai Waki

02-27-2006, 20:37

Edit:Good, therefore, lets bash China before Tibet's freshness is out.

Obviously you didn't see any harm in bashing America, so why stop there? China's gonna be the next superpower anyway, might as well hate them now, so you don't have to hate them later.

Oh, and wasn't promoting that China should free Tibet.

Ianofsmeg16

02-27-2006, 20:43

The Native Americans are free:inquisitive: they can leave the reservations any time they want too, the only reason that they do stay, is so they don't have to work (I can justify saying this because I have lived near Reservations and have had quite a few Native American Friends), and can live under government pensions for the rest of their lives. Not only that, the reservations are sovereign nations, and so they can make whatever laws that they like... and still receive tax benefits from the rest of the US, even though they don't have to pay taxes themselves.

What makes Freeing Tibet different then say, "freeing" the Native Americans, or for you guys in the UK, freeing Scotland, or Wales, or the people in Australia, giving back all your land to the Aborigines. Is that the annexation of Tibet is still fresh in a lot of peoples memories.

Obviously, the Native Americans today have no right to take away the lands of people that have been living in their former lands for generations, because A. None of them were alive when the atrocities happened, and B. No One Today was alive when those atrocities happened. The only thing that can wash away the wounds of those terrible acts is to let time heal it, if the government up and said non- Natives must concede their lands to the Natives, then we'd have a civil war on our hands, if we did peacefully concede our lands, then the Natives wouldn't last too long, nor would they like it, because both sides have integrated their cultures together, and they depend on government support and balance as much as we do. And you must also remember, that most Americans consider themselves 'Native Americans'.
Ok after hearing that, I retract my statement said earlier in the thread, I've "Seen the light" as it were :2thumbsup:

AquaLurker

02-27-2006, 20:48

Obviously you didn't see any harm in bashing America, so why stop there? China's gonna be the next superpower anyway, might as well hate them now, so you don't have to hate them later.

Oh, and wasn't promoting that China should free Tibet.

Wasn't implying that you are.

Merely exercising "Free Tibet" logic to a random country, say USA? I can switch to Austrialia if you like, even better still my own country Singapore.

Shadow

02-28-2006, 19:01

Wasn't implying that you are.

Merely exercising "Free Tibet" logic to a random country, say USA? I can switch to Austrialia if you like, even better still my own country Singapore.

Singapore?

KafirChobee

03-01-2006, 01:22

May not deserve, but certainly warrant it.

Think of the boon to the world when things go terribly wrong:

1) Like their attempts to subvert the Western press thru strong arm attempts, and beatings. It may awaken the wests' corporations that what they are building there is not for them, but for a regime.
2) If the terrorists (or CIA, MI6<j/k) really want to prove their point that no one is invulerable to their control? What better place than a totalitarian state? To prove it.
3) That after their last one (olympics) something happened in one of their "squares' that expanded their freedom (laugh, laugh), or atleast opened the door a crack.
5) That the influx of western people will allow the Chinese with the inclination to, to pass on information to bring the present "evil empire" down. Or, atleast wake the common man up to the fact that China today is what Japan and Germany were to the 1930's.

The advantages for, and to the West are enormous. Politically (world wide) this could be the best thing that may happen since WWII ended [assuming the world survives the Bush administration - really].

China is led by a bunch of Cappos that are smart enough to play the game, and wise enough to make it seem like it is all about money (which the West understands - maybe all they do any more). When in fact, they know that in a few years they will have all the POWER - political, military, economic, and diplomatic. All roads will run through China - because they need never make a concession. While the West does because their business leaders (those that really pay their salaries) tell them to. And besides, China can call in our debt ... they own $1-3trillion of the U.S.'s ... guess what Europe's portion they have vested in?

The Olympics in China, is a good idea ... for the common man. A bad one for the leaders of the governments of the "freewoiled" (intentional).

Of course we will see soon enough. Eh?

Btw, think about 4) ... it was omitted for being to obvious. :book: