Building Descriptions - some of our more unique ones

[Teleklos Archelaou]

With some factions we have fewer researchers in, and for some non-faction ones too, we have a harder time finding information for some of the unique buildings we have across the map. I'm wondering if anyone would like to help us with a few descriptions or some appropriate names. Please state here if you would like to, before submitting anything. And please try to keep any descriptions in the style of some of our other ones already in the game. If we can find some agreement on it we'll use them. This is not intended to be a arguing-ground for the merits of inclusion or exclusion of these unique buildings however.

Thanks for any interest and help!
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Current unique building needs:

1. Karahundj ("old"? Armenian name of site and description of site)
http://www.tacentral.com/karahundj/karahundj1.asp

2. Bab el Mandeb (early Arabic? name and description of ancient importance)

3. The Straits of Hormuz (early Arabic? name and description of ancient importance)


Megalithic Maltese Temples (Punic? appropriate name)
Sardinian Nuraghi (Punic? appropriate name)
Cyclopean Monuments of the Baleares (Punic? appropriate name)
Ustyurt Plateau Sanctuaries (?name)
Royal Skythian Tombs (?name)
Royal Sarmatian Tombs (?name)
Bet HaMikdash - Temple at Jerusalem (Greek name?)
Temple of Baalbek (Greek name?)

For those punic ones above, it's unlikely we could have an exact name, so something appropriately descriptive would work.

[Arman616]

I will try to get some info on those. But "The Straits of Hormuz" is persian, and Hormuz is definitely persian.

[paullus]

Would the Periplus Mare Erythrae (sp?) be of any use for bab el mandeb? I don't think there's much in there other than that its a difficult strait (its been a while since I read it though), and I guess its the wrong time and from the Greek perspective.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

The Periplus would be great to pull information from for a description. I think Strabo mentions the names of the two capes on either side of the Bab el Mandeb too, but those are the types of things that would be great for a description.

As for the name of the Straits of Hormuz, we'd love to see any ancient references to it and its importance. We thought it was a strategic choke-point for trade and deserved a trade boost, but we just lack the information to put together a description for it.

[Reenk Roink]

I'm gonna look through some of the EB descriptions, and then shotty the Temple Of Jerusalem...

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Only the three at the top need descriptions. The ones at the bottom just need names.

[Reenk Roink]

Ahh, I should really learn how to read better...

[paullus]

Strabo and the writer of the Periplus both just give the names of the mountains astride the strait of Hormuz: Asabon and Semirameos. The writer of the periplus doesn't give it much attention, except as the gateway to the Persian Gulf. In his time there must not have been a major (or even minor perhaps) trading post there (perhaps because of the mountains).

Bab el Mandeb is another story. Only I can't quite discern which sections are talking about it. Anyone know if Adulis is above or below the strait? I think its above, but then I run out of stadia before getting to the Horn. It may be that the west coast is around the Aualites, but I'm not sure. It seems like the independent trading city of Muza is near it, on the Arabian side, which would, by its nearness, make the Bab el Mandeb worth a trade bonus. And this in spite of the writer saying that the waters there are turbulent.

Edit: ok, did some comparisons, and Muza is near the strait, while Adulis is a little above it (a main site for ivory imports) and Aualites immediately below the strait (I think). The main points from the Periplus for Bab el Mandeb are:
1) the independent and important Arab trading city Muza (which sent out its own fleets to India and Further Africa)
2) that Further Africa (or the Far Side) gets started after the straits, so its a sort of frontier
3) the danger of the waters in the straits themselves.
4) it seems like Muza and a couple of posts further east on the Arabian peninsula were key posts for those wishing to go halfway on the India-Egypt route.
Do you think that's enough to try writing a description? I know nothing of Arabic or Sabaean sources about the area.

[Reenk Roink]

Well Bet Ha-Knesset (House of Assembly) in Greek is "Synagogue" (not sure of exact greek spelling)...I'll try to find the appropriate translation for Bet Ha-Mikdash.

[paullus]

Josephus mostly just uses "hieron" and a little "hieron en hierosolumois"
The Temple and The Temple in Jerusalem

There's also "to tou theou temonos" and "hagiotatos"
The Precinct of God and The Most Holy Place

Any help?

[Kull]

Paullus - Nice stuff. I recall that Alexander sent a fleet from India back to Babylon, and they sailed along the southern coast of Persia. Admiral Nearchos wrote a book describing their journey (Indike?), so that might be a good source of info for this region, even though it's bit earlier than our time period.

Here's the section involving the Strait of Hormuz (http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander_t52.html).

And here's a Ptolemaic reference (http://www.dataxinfo.com/hormuz/ptolemy.htm) to the region.

This is the full text of the Periplus (http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/ancient/periplus.html) (#35 refers to the straits of Hormuz....and I think #25 refers to Bab el Mandeb)

[paullus]

Ok, I'm gonna take a shot at Bab-el-Mandeb

Bab el Mandeb

This strait forms the boundary between the Arabikos Kolpos (or the Red Sea) and the main area of the Erythra Thalassa (most of which we now know as the Indian Ocean). It was known by the Greeks as Deire, the Neck, since on either side of the strait Africa and Arabia come close to one another, and the strait is squeezed between them for several kilometers, creating the appearance of a neck. The Greeks probably appropriated the name from merchants of the Erythra Thalassa. Herodotos claimed that the straits were crossed by the Egyptian conqueror Sesostris, though modern authorities doubt the Egyptians ever controlled the straits, and debate whether Sesostris existed at all. Most of the traffic around the straits was passing through by sea, rather than moving from Africa to Arabia. Merchant vessels traveling the routes from India to Berenike had to pass through Deire, which developed a reputation for having turbulent waters. However, there were several important trading centers just outside of the straits, and some of these, such as Muza in Arabia, became halfway depots: merchants could travel to these places and back home again, rather than making the entire journey. The nearby port of Adulis, on the African side, was a key site for the ivory trade. The straits, and the mountains running south and west from them in Africa, formed a sort of frontier between Aethiopia and the Far Side of Africa.


How is that? I have no idea what the early Arabic/Berber name for the straits might have been, though there's a good chance it was the same as their name for neck.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Just wanted to say thanks again paullus - I'm rearranging unique buildings and plugging the description you wrote in now. :2thumbsup:

(slightly revised):

Bab el Mandeb
Bab el Mandeb

This strait forms the boundary between the Arabikos Kolpos (or the Red Sea) and the main area of the Erythra Thalassa (most of which we now know as the Indian Ocean). It was known by the Hellenes as Deire, the Neck, since on either side of the strait Africa and Arabia come close to one another, and the strait is squeezed between them for several kilometers, creating the appearance of a neck. The Hellenes probably appropriated the name from merchants of the Erythra Thalassa. Herodotos claimed that the straits were crossed by the Egyptian conqueror Sesostris, though modern authorities doubt the Egyptians ever controlled the straits, and debate whether Sesostris existed at all. Most of the traffic around the straits was passing through by sea, rather than moving from Africa to Arabia. Merchant vessels traveling the routes from India to Berenike had to pass through Deire, which developed a reputation for having turbulent waters. However, there were several important trading centers just outside of the straits, and some of these, such as Muza in Arabia, became halfway depots: merchants could travel to these places and back home again, rather than making the entire journey. The nearby port of Adulis, on the African side, was a key site for the ivory trade. The straits, and the mountains running south and west from them in Africa, formed a sort of frontier between Aethiopia and the Far Side of Africa.

If anyone would like to do one for the straits of Hormuz, please let me know.

[Kull]

If anyone would like to do one for the straits of Hormuz, please let me know.

Here's what already in v.74:

{uniqueroad3_roman} The Straits of Hormuz (TRANSLATE ME PLEASE!)
{uniqueroad3_roman_desc}
The Straits of Hormuz (from the "Periplus", a Ptolemaic navigation guide).\n\nAt the upper end of these Calaei islands is a range of mountains called Calon, and there follows not far beyond, the mouth of the Persian Gulf, where there is much diving for the pearl-mussel. To the left of the straits are great mountains called Asabon, and to the right there rises in full view another round and high mountain called Semiramis; between them the passage across the strait is about six hundred stadia; beyond which that very great and broad sea, the Persian Gulf, reaches far into the interior.
{uniqueroad3_roman_desc_short}
The strait connecting the Persian Gulf with the Indian Ocean.

{uniqueroad3_numidia} Bab el Mandeb (TRANSLATE ME PLEASE!)
{uniqueroad3_numidia_desc}
This strait forms the boundary between the Arabikos Kolpos (or the Red Sea) and the main area of the Erythra Thalassa (most of which we now know as the Indian Ocean). It was known by the Greeks as Deire, the Neck, since on either side of the strait Africa and Arabia come close to one another, and the strait is squeezed between them for several kilometers, creating the appearance of a neck. The Greeks probably appropriated the name from merchants of the Erythra Thalassa. Herodotos claimed that the straits were crossed by the Egyptian conqueror Sesostris, though modern authorities doubt the Egyptians ever controlled the straits, and debate whether Sesostris existed at all. Most of the traffic around the straits was passing through by sea, rather than moving from Africa to Arabia. Merchant vessels traveling the routes from India to Berenike had to pass through Deire, which developed a reputation for having turbulent waters. However, there were several important trading centers just outside of the straits, and some of these, such as Muza in Arabia, became halfway depots: merchants could travel to these places and back home again, rather than making the entire journey. The nearby port of Adulis, on the African side, was a key site for the ivory trade. The straits, and the mountains running south and west from them in Africa, formed a sort of frontier between Aethiopia and the Far Side of Africa.
{uniqueroad3_numidia_desc_short}
This strait forms the boundary between the Arabikos Kolpos (Red Sea) and the main area of the Erythra Thalassa (Indian Ocean).

[edyzmedieval]

Teleklos and Kull,

Some names can't be found. It's really very hard to find the Skythian language, or the original temple name in Jerusalem.

Also, can you give me a list of the buildings which don't have descripts?

[cunctator]

Here's what already in v.74:

{uniqueroad3_roman} The Straits of Hormuz (TRANSLATE ME PLEASE!)
{uniqueroad3_roman_desc}
The Straits of Hormuz (from the "Periplus", a Ptolemaic navigation guide).\n\nAt the upper end of these Calaei islands is a range of mountains called Calon, and there follows not far beyond, the mouth of the Persian Gulf, where there is much diving for the pearl-mussel. To the left of the straits are great mountains called Asabon, and to the right there rises in full view another round and high mountain called Semiramis; between them the passage across the strait is about six hundred stadia; beyond which that very great and broad sea, the Persian Gulf, reaches far into the interior.
{uniqueroad3_roman_desc_short}
The strait connecting the Persian Gulf with the Indian Ocean.


Since several eamples of periploi have survived I would prefere to use the full name Periplus Maris Erythraei, and it's commonly dated to the first century AD not Ptolemaic times.