Ken Livingstone suspended for 4 weeks

[InsaneApache]

Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke.


The Mayor of London was suspended from office for four weeks today after being found guilty of bringing his office into disrepute by comparing a Jewish reporter to a Nazi concentration camp guard.

clicky (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2056973,00.html)

He was wrong and should have apologised from the off. Not the first time that our Ken has shown an appalling lack of judgement.

[Mount Suribachi]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4746016.stm

To be honest, when it all happened I couldn't believe he'd got away with it. They've just played a tape of the conversation on ITN news, and the reporter sounds polite, like he's just doing his job basically. Even after the reporter tells Ken he's Jewish and finds his comment offensive, Ken carries on and says "you are just like a concentration camp guard" and then starts on a rant about his newspaper being bigoted.

If I said something like that at work to a Jewish person, I would be in danger of losing my job. For the mayor of Britains capital city to do it, and to be unrepentant about it is unacceptable.

Can't find a link to the tape recording right now otherwise I'd post it.

[InsaneApache]

LOL and both threads posted at exactly the same time.

[Taffy_is_a_Taff]

I'd love Red Ken for the comedy value if he weren't so hellbent on messing London up even more than it is already (because I have a sick love of that city).

[JAG]

This is disgusting, he did nothing wrong and messing London up?! Do you live there even? Do you understand how much better it is now, directly due to Ken? Unless you do you should calm down and button your mouth.

Better policing with more of it, including now the local based community policing initiatives. Better public transport with newer busses and trains and new stations, which are not only more regular but the best service in the country. The congestion charge which has meant pollution in the centre of the capital has decreased and the congestion - funnily enough - has decreased too.... He has done so much more, he has been an inspiration, all this talk of suspension and rubbish like that simply tries to take attention away from what he really has done in office. It is done because Londoners like what he has done and will vote him in again next election.

Utter disgrace this whole rubbish is about suspension he did nothing at all wrong, he wasn't racist, he wasn't anti semitic etc, he was merely stating his mind about a reporter who works for a paper who never leaves him alone, the reporter himself who never leaves him alone and a reporter who was harassing him in an area where he should not have been allowed. If Ken looses his rag it is utterly understandable, suspension? What utter bull.

[InsaneApache]

If comparing a Jewish journo to a Nazi concentration camp guard isn't offesinve then what is?

He (Livingston) should conduct himself with more decorum. He is not only a public servant, he represents London, both nationally and internationally.

This is not the first time that his temper has got him into trouble. I remember a year or so back an incident at a party attended by Livingston, where a man was pushed over a balcony, allegedly by Livingston. He only escaped prosecution because the fellow involved refused to make a statement to the police.

His choice of people to honour is a bit weird as well, made up of suicide bombers and the like in Palestine.

Having said that, I agree that he shouldn't have been suspended for a month. An abuse of democracy. He should have been barred for life from office. :laugh4:

[Duke Malcolm]

If comparing a Jewish journo to a Nazi concentration camp guard isn't offesinve then what is?

The Mayor did not know that he was Jewish when he said it, only after he said it did the reporter say he was Jewish (and Ken re-iterated the point, I believe). Ken did nothing wrong here.

[BigTex]

He did nothing wrong except compare the guy to a Nazi? And I'm sure Hitler was regarded as a great man for reducing traffic and congestion by building the Auto Bonds. The dude should be fired for that kinda thing, he's the mayor of a capitol city, or possibly they should bring back tar and feathering. Tar and feathering is an all to rare occurance these days.

[Goofball]

He did nothing wrong except compare the guy to a Nazi? And I'm sure Hitler was regarded as a great man for reducing traffic and congestion by building the Auto Bonds. The dude should be fired for that kinda thing, he's the mayor of a capitol city, or possibly they should bring back tar and feathering. Tar and feathering is an all to rare occurance these days.

All this guy did was insult a reporter. Simple as that. He broke no laws and neither did nor incited others to do physical violence against the reporter.

And then this reporter has the balls to whine about his sensibilities being offended. If I had a penny for every time a reporter offended somebody's sensibilities, I would be able to buy every newspaper in the civilized world.

This was nothing more than a disgusting witch hunt.

[rory_20_uk]

Jag, that's a great dodge there: defending his behaviour by pointing out completely unrelated matters Ken has successfully dealt with.

Yes, what you saiy is correct, but for his failure to repent the 4 week ban is appropriate.

Yes, others may get away with saying such things, but that's his job - he can't. I know that I can't in my job as I'd get reprimanded.

~:smoking:

[Scurvy]

im a huge ken fan (yes, really) living in london, but his lack of tact and judgment is sometimes distressing :furious3:

[BDC]

The elected representative of London gets thrown out for four weeks by three unelected people. Sounds like democracy in action there.

[Xiahou]

Not my country and I havent been to London in 3yrs, so I dont have much of an opinion.... But I wonder what JAG, Goof and others would be saying if it had been someone like.... oh I dont know.... Cheney who called a Jewish reporter a Nazi death camp guard. I somehow doubt they'd be rushing to defend him. :wink:

[Ianofsmeg16]

The Govt did something wrong!
https://img524.imageshack.us/img524/9858/blankrly4tn.th.jpg (https://img524.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blankrly4tn.jpg)
O RLY?!?

seriously, Livingstone should be suspended forever.

[Goofball]

Not my country and I havent been to London in 3yrs, so I dont have much of an opinion.... But I wonder what JAG, Goof and others would be saying if it had been someone like.... oh I dont know.... Cheney who called a Jewish reporter a Nazi death camp guard. I somehow doubt they'd be rushing to defend him. :wink:

Oh please...

:juggle2:

To tell you the truth, I had to Google "Ken Livingstone" to find out what you meant by that jab. I assume you are implying that because Livingstone is a lefty I am defending him?

FYI: I had never really heard of Ken Livingstone before this thread, so his being a lefty had no bearing on what I said. Besides, I'm a social lefty not an economic lefty, and from the little I could learn about "Red Ken" in 10 minutes, it seems that I probably would disagree with just about everything he does politically.

To answer your question: If Cheney or Bush had called a Jewish reporter a Nazi death camp guard I would have said that that was yet one more reason why people shouldn't vote for them. But it certainly would not have said it was grounds for impeachment.

They are politicians, as is Livingstone. If they say stupid things, it should cost them their jobs because they will be unelectable. But once they have the job, unless they break the law they can pretty much say whatever they want until the next election.

Edit: Calmed down and took out personal retaliation bit.

[Xiahou]

Oh please. Just couldn't resist taking one last cheap shot before the weekend, could you?Pfft, last? There's still time for more. :laugh4:

I dont think he should've been suspended either if he broke no laws, but that's not what I'm commenting on. I was talking, in your case, about your dismissal of it as a 'disgusting witch hunt' and calling the reporter a whiny crybaby for being offended- for all you know he had relatives who died in the holocaust, he had every right to be offended and Livingston was an ass for saying it in the first place and an even bigger one for not apologizing afterwards.

If it had been someone, like Cheney, who you have utter contempt for, I didnt think you would have been so dismissive about what was said. Perhaps I'm wrong in your case- if you still think you wouldve said it was a disgusting witch hunt and the reporter is just whining, then fair enough. :bow:

[BigTex]

I question what kind of mindset that guy has when the 2nd thing he says after a polite question is "What did you do before? Were you a German war criminal?". Nice lil bigot, Tar and Feathers.

[Incongruous]

Hey hey hey, its "If you disagree with me you're a racist nazi" Ken. What else can you expect?
He was a pratt to say it, but the fact that he was barred by unelected toffs is unacceptable. But we do live in a democracy.:help:

[Duke of Gloucester]

The Mayor did not know that he was Jewish when he said it, only after he said it did the reporter say he was Jewish (and Ken re-iterated the point, I believe). Ken did nothing wrong here.

Well not quite:

From the BBC website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4746016.stm

"Ken Livingstone was recorded asking reporter Oliver Finegold if he is a "German war criminal".

Mr Finegold replies: "No, I'm Jewish, I wasn't a German war criminal. I'm quite offended by that."

The mayor then says: "Ah right, well you might be, but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?"

The reason Ken rasies emotions, positive and negative, is that he doesn't behave like an ordinary politician. A normal politician would have found a way to apologise without apologising, by saying for example "I don't apologise to Mr Finegold or his employers because I believe they persecute homosexuals, but I regret that I mentioned concentration camps and apologise to any Jewish people who were hurt by that." Ken is honest to a fault. He is not sorry and therefore won't say that he is.

[Tribesman]

An interesting take on this .

The Board is supposed to represent the interest of British Jews, by taking action against Ken, it is once again representing the interests of its own self.

In a statement The Board said:

"The Board of Deputies of British Jews regrets that the Mayor’s intransigence over his hurtful comments last February outside City Hall and his subsequent failure to apologise has lead to a finding that the Office of the Mayor has been brought into disrepute. Had the Mayor simply recognised the upset his comments had caused, this sorry episode could have been avoided. He has been the architect of his own misfortune."

What upset did he cause, if only to the journalist in question? If you are a journalist doing any sort of door stepping or going up to public figures in the street, you should be made of thicker skin. Ken did not insult all Jews, he insulted one and it was within context.

The Board further added:

"The Board of Deputies has at no stage passed judgement on the motivation for the Mayor’s comments, nor have we sought anything other than an expression of regret and an acknowledgement that the words used were wholly inappropriate for the elected representative of Londoners of all faiths and beliefs. We hope that all those involved can now move on from this episode."

It's obvious they sought more than just an expression of regret. But a decision has now been made, wrongly in my opinion against Ken.

The Board hopes all those involved can now move on. Well, The Board may like to think that, but it opens up a can of worms and questions what role it actually serves in the Jewish community.



My take on this....
If Feingold is so upset then perhaps he shouldn't work for the Standard , it must be very offensive for him to have to read through that papers archives and view all the anti-semetic pro-nazi crap that his paymasters published .

Oh , and if they want to get Ken out of office , have an election , not an unelected panel .

[Duke Malcolm]

Well not quite:

From the BBC website

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4746016.stm

"Ken Livingstone was recorded asking reporter Oliver Finegold if he is a "German war criminal".

Mr Finegold replies: "No, I'm Jewish, I wasn't a German war criminal. I'm quite offended by that."

The mayor then says: "Ah right, well you might be, but actually you are just like a concentration camp guard, you are just doing it because you are paid to, aren't you?"

The reason Ken rasies emotions, positive and negative, is that he doesn't behave like an ordinary politician. A normal politician would have found a way to apologise without apologising, by saying for example "I don't apologise to Mr Finegold or his employers because I believe they persecute homosexuals, but I regret that I mentioned concentration camps and apologise to any Jewish people who were hurt by that." Ken is honest to a fault. He is not sorry and therefore won't say that he is.

Well, the actual transcript reads better than I thought it would. He didn't actually compare him to a Nazi after the revelation of the reporter being Jewish. If it had then it might have been quite acceptable to give him a slap on the wrist. After the revelation he reduces it to "concentration camp guard", he never actualy calls the man a Nazi after he finds out the reporter is a Jew.

[Red Peasant]

:laugh4:

Ken's great. Bit of a prat sometimes, but he's a socialist who actually gets things done, and that must stick in the throat of the Tory boys, and some Labour people as well. He's done a lot for London and the bulk of the electors will no doubt remember him for it.
Politicians are criticized for being bland, non-committal, non-entities, kinda grey, boring, robots with no personalities, but give people a genuine political personality and they still bitch.
I don't feel too sorry for old Ken anyway, because he'll probably be loving this furore, the old drama queen!

[Adrian II]

What he said seems mildly offensive, certainly not disproportionate if you consider the wildly offensive journalistic habits of the rag in question. He did not insult Jews, he insulted the reporter and his paper. Londoners will love him even more after this.