Keeping control

[St Derfel Cadarn]

In early battles (in RTW) with few units to control I have no problems.

However, when I start using stacks of a full 20 of mixed unit types I can sometimes struggle to maintain overall control.:juggle2:

Does anyone have any tips on how to easily keep on top?:help:

[econ21]

The pause key is your friend. I frequently pause when some new development occurs or just to to take stock.

Beyond that, when I deploy, I always arrange my units of a given type (e.g. hastati or phalanx) left to right on the battle field so as to correspond to their ordering in the unit display at the bottom of the screen. That way, I can quickly find a unit I can see from the display is taking fire etc.

I also tend to fight using a fairly rigid initial formation that carries over from battle to battle. For example, a row of spears backed by archers and cavalry with some flankers. Often I just approach to contact in that formation (or if defending just hold until contact) and only really micro manage the flankers and the reserve. That approach requires a fairly solid front line (Romans or phalanxes) with lighter troops (e.g. horse archers), you'd have to micromanage more.

More generally, it helps to have an assignment of units to targets, so you know what the function of each type of unit is going to be. For example, in Rome Total Realism, I might assign missiles to target unarmoured stuff (e.g. peltasts, other missiles); heavy infantry to hold the line; cavalry to charge committed enemy in the rear etc.

All that said, I do often get a unit mangled because I lost track of it and, for example, it pursues out of line and gets surrounded. But from a realism point of view, such mess-ups are rather historical.

[St Derfel Cadarn]

Thanks for the swift response.

I think from this and other info I've been reading on here is that one of my problems has been in focusing my attacks from the centre of my formation.

What you seem to suggest is that the centre remain a solid unit and the two flanks are used to carry out the attack.

What's your idea of the ideal make up of an army and how do you set them out?

[Garvanko]

When the battle is joined, the main unit to keep track of is your Cav. They are your key offensive weapons. Infantry should be on Guard mode, missile units on skirmish, so at least both will either hold their ground or keep away from danger.

Your Cav must support the infantry. They must flank and attack from behind.

When you're controlling the units, keep in mind Cav can get bogged down if not micro managed properly. They don't always have a strong defence, and they are a beacon for any enemy units, especially infantry with Cav bonuses. Keep them moving and keep them charging.

As for formations. Depends on the scenario, and the oppositions strength and size.

-When attacking, i generally attack first with skirmishers, and then attack and flank with the main army. Engage their infantry.

-When defending, I generally try to disrupt the enemy formation through flanking and archers. Let their infantry engage yours if they can. Their morale will be low and they will be tired.

The key is to disrupt the enemy formation, and to encircle them through flanking causing them to rout. Group your units and manage those horses. They win your wars for you.

[St Derfel Cadarn]

Do you group your units on unit type or left-flank / centre / right-flank?

[Garvanko]

Both.

Again, depends on the strength of the opposition. The stronger the opposition, the more likely I will use separate groups for units.

I would stick to the left-flank/centre/right-flank till you are more comfortable with handling.

Alternatively, you could place control of Infantry under the AI, while you deal with Cav and skirmishers. As long as you task the AI, it can do a good job for you on Medium Battle settings.

[St Derfel Cadarn]

I've been playing it for a while now but I didn't realise that you could have the AI control your forces.

Do you have cavalry only as your flank and infantry as your centre or do your flanks contain a mixture?

With larger formations I've generally gone for:-

H | T | T | T | H
E | H | P | P | P | H | E
G | V | A | A | A | V | C

where:-
H=Hastati
P=Principes
V=Velates
T= Triarii
E= Equites
C=Cavalry
G=General

[Avicenna]

Keeping the enemy distracted by your infantry is the key, while cavalry remain undisturbed and flank and kill at will. Always try to rout the enemy's weakest by using fear causing units, repeated attacks and so on. Routing units drop the rest of the enemy's morale, and soon a mass rout will occur.

[Avicenna]

Try this:

[center] H | H | H | H
E |P | P | P | E
T | A | A | A| T
G
T

[St Derfel Cadarn]

You keep your general to the rear and centre? With a unit of Triarii to defend them and the archers I presume?

[econ21]

The appropriate battle deployment will depend partly on the army you have and partly on personal preferences.

In MTW, I used to rely on a solid line of spears, backed by archers with cavalry and swords on the flanks. That deployment was probably suboptimal, as the spears were vulnerable to swords.

In RTW - or at least, Rome Total Realism - I tend to follow historical Roman manipular deployment, e.g.

_V_V_V_V_
_H_H_H_H_
_P_P_P_ P_
E__T__T___E
____G_____

where V= velites; H = hastati; P= princepes; T= triarii; E = equites; G = general (actually half my army would be Italian or other allies).

One point to notice is that this formation is far from solid - there would be a gap between each unit, roughly large enough for another unit to fit through. From MTW, I thought such a formation would be horrible against the AI (you'd be outnumbered on the frontline) but actually it works well because it allows for the kind of flexible micromanagement that can exploit mistakes by the AI (esp. turning their flanks towards your reserves).

The velites in loose formation would skirmish - drawing fire. They'd automatically retire behind the hastati if the enemy charged. On the offensive, I'd try to work them round the flanks to get shots off without facing the enemy's shields.

The hastati would be the first to enter melee. The Princepes would come in to support them, ideally hitting the flanks of some AI units that were ganging up on the hastati (esp. phalanxes).

The triarii would sip some tea. [They might come up to help out with a crisis.]

The equites would be the fast reserve on defence or when everything was committed they would swing into action by hitting enemy units in the flank.

I'd also have a slinger unit or two somewhere around the hastati or principes. They would aim for soft targets (peltasts, archers) or dangerous ones (cavalry).

The general would try to stay out of it (he's too valuable to lose), but sometimes would act like the equites.

It all works fairly well and seemingly historically, at least under RTR. You can be crushed by massed barbarians - in which case the principes might be best deployed alongside the hastati. But it excels against AI phalanx armies.

BTW: I never group units. With the pause button, I've never seen the need for it.

[St Derfel Cadarn]

That's what I was after! I have a hankering to do it properly (if you know what I mean). I wanted to set the formations as they would have been historically. Thanks for all the help guys. Like I say, I've been playing for some time now (including M:TW) but struggled a little with the larger battles so tended to become lazy and click the automatic resolution button...

[Garvanko]

I try not to pause. It just kills the whole atmosphere.


I've been playing it for a while now but I didn't realise that you could have the AI control your forces.

Do you have cavalry only as your flank and infantry as your centre or do your flanks contain a mixture?


Of course you can have AI control - check the Interface. As you gain more experience, you'll do it less and less of course, but at the start it can be worthwhile just to see get a feel for the controls.

Cav are my only flank, especially as a well supported infantry unit can deal adequatly with enemy flanking. Nevertheless, you can use Barbarian Mercs or Triarii on the flanks. The key is to control the flank. Make the first move where possible when it comes to flanking.

[Pontifex Rex]

What's your idea of the ideal make up of an army and how do you set them out?

Here are two examples of Roman legion formations that I use. The first is against western barbarians -


...[Cav][Cav]....................[-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][Inf-]...................[Cav][Cav]
.......[Gen].......[-Inf-][Inf-][--Archer--] [--Archer--][-Inf-][-Inf]
......................................[--Archer--] [--Archer--]

.................................[-Inf-][-Inf-].........[-Inf-][Inf-]

The second is used against the more advanced eastern cultures -

[Cav][Cav]..........[-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-]..........[Cav][Cav]
...[Cav]......[-Inf-][---Archer--][---Archer--][--Archer--][-Inf-]....[Gen]
.........................[---Archer--][---Archer--][--Archer--]

One could drop two infantry and replace them with cavalry when taking on Egyptians or other highly mobile armies.

Cheers.

[phred]

I've been playing it for a while now but I didn't realise that you could have the AI control your forces.




You have to put the units in a group first, then you can get the AI to control them.

I tried it once but didn't like the results.

[Severous]

Hi

I pause a lot.

Battle style is to refuse battle between infantry long as possible .

In the meantime secure cavalry and missile superiority. Usually cavalry and general sweep out to flanks and rear to pick off easy targets. Once enemy cavalry and missiles cant hurt me then it becomes an infantry fight. So rarely need to control all the units at the same time.

[orangat]

I find it hard to keep track when the battle is on all flanks and uber units like chariots and elephants are in play.

[Avicenna]

You keep your general to the rear and centre? With a unit of Triarii to defend them and the archers I presume?
The archers don't defend him, he defends the archeres from the enemy cavalry. He also boosts morale and is at the back so he's safer (losing your general deals a huge blow to your army's morale). If he actually IS threatened, the triarii can deal with infantry or cavalry and the archers could shoot missile cavalry down. If it's weak infantry the general can massacre them himself.

[Avicenna]

Here are two examples of Roman legion formations that I use. The first is against western barbarians -


...[Cav][Cav]....................[-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][Inf-]...................[Cav][Cav]
.......[Gen].......[-Inf-][Inf-][--Archer--] [--Archer--][-Inf-][-Inf]
......................................[--Archer--] [--Archer--]

.................................[-Inf-][-Inf-].........[-Inf-][Inf-]

The second is used against the more advanced eastern cultures -

[Cav][Cav]..........[-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-][-Inf-]..........[Cav][Cav]
...[Cav]......[-Inf-][---Archer--][---Archer--][--Archer--][-Inf-]....[Gen]
.........................[---Archer--][---Archer--][--Archer--]

One could drop two infantry and replace them with cavalry when taking on Egyptians or other highly mobile armies.

Cheers.

wouldn't the cavalry reliant eastern factions easily go round to the back and kill off your infantry then archers?

[Garvanko]

Think thats why he's got more archer units in his second formation. They have the range to keep the horse archers at bay.

[Ciaran]

Simon:
That deployment works well in vanilla Rome as well, for me at least.

One important thing, though: The faction you´re playing with is crucial to unit deployment. If you´ve been playing with the Romans and then switch to, say, the Greek, it´s almost like a completely new game, since the phalanx units require a completely different approach than the relatively independent Roman infantry.

The only units I group are phalanx units to keep them moving in a straight line. And that only works if you´ve got one type of phalanx unit. Ordering a group of phalanx units made up from different types in line formation messes the initial deployment up, because the units seem to be arranged according to their position in the army stack.
And for some reason, Rome has a -sometimes- nasty habit of remembering the unit deployment and tries to rearrange it when you select a group of units (even if you just use the rubberband selection, without actually assigning a group number to them).

[Pontifex Rex]

wouldn't the cavalry reliant eastern factions easily go round to the back and kill off your infantry then archers?

That has not been my experience as yet. The amount of missile fire that six archers and 8 cohorts can diliver is quite impressive. I also will keep the cavalry moving around the enmey's flank, forcing it to react to me, rather than the other way around.

On occasion I'll sent a leader by ship into the Stygian territory to recruit as many Horse Archers as possible (usually 3 -5) and any available Sarmatian Cavalry (2-3), I give them to one army with 6-8 infantry and a couple more Roman style cavalry. This "elite" Legion usually cuts up the army of Pontus or even Egypt.

[Quietus]

Do you group your units on unit type or left-flank / centre / right-flank? Grouping is important especially so in mixed RTW armies.

The new speed and kill rates in RTW require players to initially form a long, but solid line (only on defense; on offense, you can separate the cavalry a bit on the wing with some infantry backup), therefore you can't have gaps or the heavy cavalry will own you.

The center must be strong because:
1) This is the best place to house and protect the archers.
2) If the the center breaks, helping out from the flanks will have you sandwiched by the AI's own flank. This is not true if one of your flank breaks. You can compensate with the other flank plus the center.

Thus, the General must also be behind the archers,
1) To reinforce the center.
2) To give your center troops extra morale boost.
3) To reinforce either flank.
4) To rally routers.

In STW/MTW, you can have gaps in your line because:

1) You can separate your archer units to the flank.
2) The slow speed enables you to react fast enough to counter the AI.
3) The slow kill-rate enables separate formations to help and flank.

These are very difficult to pull off in RTW.

With flanks/center grouping you can visualize the location of your troops and click on the unit card.

1) making your reaction faster.
2) minimize the need to pause.

ex: If you are in the right flank, how do you move to your left flank?

ans: click on any of the unit cards of the left flank group.

If you use a fairly homogeneous army then, grouping is not as important.