View Full Version : Modding Requests
Duke John
03-10-2006, 13:18
All of this is worth nothing if CA does not release a model/animation exporter. That is our primary concern and that is what should be asking time after time until CA gives us an answer. If we get no response there is big chance that we will get no tools (like with R:TW) or many months after the release with the next engine already casting its shadow over any big modding plans. Seriously, I would forget all these little modding features and just focus on the exporter and let CA know that we really need it.
What is needed too, a minor niche thing perhaps, but important enough to mention again: a sandbox to test units against each other. This is important for mods that try to balance units (however that is going to be).
There are currently a few ways to do this, but all got drawbacks.
-Have a LAN. More than 1 computers connected, each running the game and plan a LAN battle. You can set each unit up how you like and see how it behaves with certain conditions. Drawback: need more computers, a larger electricity bill and probably also several software licenses. Not many people can do it, but it gives pretty good results.
-Online battles. A bit of the same story, but now you also have to rely on at least one other person and be able to explain what you want to test.
-A custom battle. You can control your own army, but the AI is in charge of the enemy. You want to see how a cavalry charges into an archer unit, but the AI skirmishes away. You want to see swords backstabbing a spearline, but the spears always rotate. You need only one computer and it would be great, if it wasn't for the AI.
The STW alpha demo had a trick (5 years ago), during a game you could ALT TAB to the AI army and control that army. Of course the AI also swapped and started to control your own army. The user should be able to control at least 2 armies in sandbox mode.
Another frustrating effect, not frustrating that it has an effect, on the contrary, is weather. During tests you have to adopt some standard, so you're not going to compare apples and bananas. Of course, you may also want to see how units perform under different conditions (how fast does this unit tire in a storm?). So the modder/interested user, also has to be able to set the weather. Right now it's random in all cases (except the adf/bdf trick, but that's very clumsy in this case).
This sandbox is valuable for modders, but it's also a good learning tool for anyone who wants to understand details about fights.
Duke John
03-10-2006, 23:57
What you want is already easily achievable with scripts.
Duke John
03-11-2006, 09:16
Yes, in R:TW.
What you want is already easily achievable with scripts.
Interesting. Where can I learn more about this? Is it already successfully used?
Battles:
Unit speeds
Map size
Battlemap editor
All very good suggestions spmetla and I agree, all those things should be there. I hope for Totalwar to be an ultimate construction kit, the vanilla game wrapped around that is, more a bonus: Pokemon(R): Totalwar? Anything CA loves to make and Sega can sell in large quantities is good, as long as there are tools for quick and complete conversions (also, but more limited, for normal users by GUI configuration menus).
Unit speeds: one of the largest drawbacks in RTW unitstats. But it's a big step forwards that there are terrain modifiers. :2thumbsup:
Individual unitspeeds should be back in the stats and if possible more of the combat parameters that MTW VI gained.
This might be tricky to implement. But the speed of a unit should dictate its animation, not the other way around like it is now. This should stop the moonwalking/iceskating effect and also allow for 2 different unittypes using the same model, but having slightly different unitspeeds. Example: a (fantasy?) mod where a ninja like unit deceives by making the other think he's just an ashigaru.
Map size. Compared to STW maps, RTW maps are great. A big problem with STW maps was to make the surrounding landscape. Most/all vanilla maps solved this by making (moderate) slopes near the edge. This created the illusion, but had some drawbacks as well. For once, it made the ('fair') 'flat' play area smaller. Custom flatmaps were difficult to create, the surrounding landscape couldn't really be made. MTW improved by using backdrops. RTW's method is really great. The fat large borderline is a bit distracting though.
Last week I invaded an island, my movingpoints were depleted just before I reached the city. The army in the city sallied. The battle took place in the lowlands, sea in my back, the city on top of the hill. The next turn I attacked the city. Now I was on top of the hill, looked back and saw the plain we fought on yesterday and the sea I sailed the day before :2thumbsup: (Yes, I'm guillable).
RTW's mapsystem allows custom mapsizes, more than any TW title before. Imagine I could make the battlemap twice as large as it is now. Roman arms could pursuit the routing enemy right into the city. Of course there should be an option to quit (no siege equipment ready or waiting for reinforcements): all enemy units routed into the city -> do you want to claim victory now and lay siege?
Horsearcher armies will rock on big maps. :elephant:
There's a battlemap editor in RTW? I'm pretty sure I made a 'draft' about a year ago. What do you mean spmetla?
Erm, RTW has a mapeditor? That thingy you use to make SP/MP scenarios can also be used for just a map. I noticed some glitches (you should see the unofficial editor in STW, boy those were the days), but it's pretty good.
Agree, user should be able to decide how large the play area is. I may be mistaken, but when you play a 3D battle a part of the campaign map data is used to render (realtime) a battlemap. But only a small part of it is made available for the game. The part outside the Red border would be playable if it wasn't for the border.
The user should be able to create settings based upon the unitsize he uses, his 'realism' requirements or desired difficulty. When you play a heavy infantry rich army and fight against a horsearcher nomad tribe, you may want to help yourself and keep the area small. If it's the other way around you may want a large playarea to make the most of hit, run, exhaust and destroy tactics. Is this cheating? Sure, just like sitting in a chair, drinking cola and playing war. Do I care? No.
Edit: to enable editor in RTW (should work in BI too). Create a shortcut and edit its properties. add -enable_editor to the target. Result "C:\RTW\RomeTW.exe" -enable_editor Start the game with the shortcut, the Battle editor is in the options menu.
Epistolary Richard
03-16-2006, 01:55
Interesting. Where can I learn more about this? Is it already successfully used?
There are a couple of tutorials on the Scriptorium about RTW scripting however they focus on campaign scripting and not battle scripting.
Essentially a script can be used to control an enemy unit to follow preset command, stand still, fire or not fire and so forth. It's not as simple as just swapping between factions but it would work.
You can find the source documents for all the scripting commands here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54299). And looking through the historical battle files will give you as good as an idea as anybody as to how to use them.
RTW's method is really great. The fat large borderline is a bit distracting though.
I believe that's actually moddable. I've never seen the redline in EB for example.
I may be mistaken, but when you play a 3D battle a part of the campaign map data is used to render (realtime) a battlemap. But only a small part of it is made available for the game. The part outside the Red border would be playable if it wasn't for the border.
That's correct. The playable area is moddable in custom/historical battles but in campaign battles it can't be changed.
There are a couple of tutorials on the Scriptorium about RTW scripting however they focus on campaign scripting and not battle scripting.
Essentially a script can be used to control an enemy unit to follow preset command, stand still, fire or not fire and so forth. It's not as simple as just swapping between factions but it would work.
It seems like some work to set this up for just one test and there are many. Also, you may want to deploy enemy units nearby to strip out the effect of say fatigue. No, not the whole thing, but you just don't want unit 1 to tire marching while number 2 is fresh. Just balancing units is already very time consuming.
You can find the source documents for all the scripting commands here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=54299). And looking through the historical battle files will give you as good as an idea as anybody as to how to use them.
Yes, that's what you are likely going to use them for. It was depressing to make historical battles in STW: as soon as the game started, the AI moved everything. MTW added (some of) these extra commands.
Duke John
03-20-2006, 08:57
And while we are talking about scripting; it would be nice if we could do a bit of simple math with variables like adding, substracting and comparing. Plus a command that changes the facing of an unit towards an unit or group. Or even better, a comparable set of commands used for the AI.
And while we are talking about scripting; it would be nice if we could do a bit of simple math with variables like adding, substracting and comparing. Plus a command that changes the facing of an unit towards an unit or group. Or even better, a comparable set of commands used for the AI.
:jumping:
And be able to change the hardcoded bonusses and penalties (flanking, backstab, morale hit, fatigue).
And a berserk mode: in STW a unit was reluctant to attack unless he could win. You may want to make an angry and desperate farmer mob who attacks a couple of knights.
For Medieval 2, an updated version of BKB's Super Mod would be a great edition to Medieval 2 as it was in Medieval.:idea2: :idea2: :idea2: :idea2: :2thumbsup: :2thumbsup:
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