Historical questions for a freeware (probably ww2) naval sim!

[Rodion Romanovich]

I might be able to program a small freeware naval sim game as part of my education, but I think I might need some historical help to decide which features and content it should contain!

- Time: early ww2, but if anyone can convice me that another period would be more interesting I'm open for suggestions
- Factions: Britain and Germany
- Ships for Britain: battleships, cruisers, destroyers, carriers, torpedo boats
- Ships for Germany: battleships, cruisers, destroyers, torpedo boats, submarines

Questions:
- If possible, is there a full list available containing all ships that Britain and Germany had at the outbreak of the war, their names and armament, and a list of all ships introduced throughout the war? Also, in which cases is it possible to use identical skins for several ships that belong to the same class? If I have time to skin/model say 8 ship classes per faction, which classes should I bunch them into?
- What type of weaponry did the different classes of ships have? Torpedoes, depth charges, turrets, AA etc. I'll try to reuse some turret models and skins so if possible tell me in which cases different ship classes used identical turrets etc. Stats for the turrets - range, spread (preferably in angles but distance between impact points will also suffice), what vertical angle the turrets were normally fired at (I suppose something below 20 degrees since they were cannons and not howitzer/mortars etc.?), max angles for turrets, position of turrets on the ships etc.
- Some info about necessary non-combat equipment, such as radar, sonar etc. You can assume I'm a complete newbie at this part :embarassed: Which parts of this equipment must affect gameplay to make the simulation somewhat historically correct?
- Different types of hits should cause different effect for the opponents: the engines might get trouble, shoreline hits can lead to water intake (but where can I find info on how the ships were built up so I know which damage would be caused by hits where, and how much would be required before the ship sinks?), turrets may be damaged, fires might break out. Can anyone suggest an as simple model as possible for how to calculate which damage is to be made by each type of hit without the model being too unrealistic?
- How to best make the AI - I don't know how to create multiplayer so I'll stick to singleplayer. What would be a good model for how the AI controlled commander should think? I can add some randomness and similar so the commander can choose between different possibilities in situations, so it won't be an entirely predictable AI. What I need is some expertise on naval tactics of the period and some "typical situations" and how to normally act in them, much like this thread, but for ww2 naval situations:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=56330
- The first thing I'll do are the battles. If I get time and the battles are popular I might make an interesting dynamic campaign for it (I have some really great ideas for that btw :2thumbsup: ).
- Release date: I hope to have some type of demo available before summer but no promises, and don't get any illusions - the game will probably be very simple
- Name of the sim: working name is "Royal Navy vs Kriegsmarine"

I hope this is in accordance with forum rules because this is a freeware and no commerical stuff etc. If not I'm sorry it wasn't my intention...

[Peasant Phill]

That sounds very interesting and I would love to playtest the demo.

I don't expect it to be to hard to find data on ships and armament.
And about the AI, just like in the link, post some situations and the answers will come in abundance.

Good luck with it

[Rodion Romanovich]

Thank you! I've created a small forum for this game:
http://s12.invisionfree.com/Kriegsmarine/index.php?act=idx

I'll try to create a small list of typical situations... Also I'll make a small demo/screenshot of the water surface very soon.

[cunctator]

Do you know this site: http://www.german-navy.de/ . It should contain many of the informations about Kriegsmarine ships you are searching for.

[Rodion Romanovich]

No I didn't know it. Thanks, it seems like a good source to begin with!

[King Kurt]

Legio

Like the sound of the project and happy to help.
A model for damage etc is to give all ships a points total which is the same as its tonnage, so a 10,000 tonne ship is 10,000 points. Then all weapons are given a damage rating of one value for a non penertration hit and a higher value for penertration hit. For example a cruiser with 8 inch guns fires at another cruiser. Its first hit is on the superstructure - no armour, so non pertrative hit, does say 150 points, second hit is on a turret - armour here, at this range can penertrate so hit does say 450 points - 3rd hit is on the main belt, can't penertrate, so damage is 150.
You can really ring the changes with this system - for example german ships were more modern, had more compartments, so increase their points to reflect this - for example 25%. If damage is at long range and is by plunging fire or divebombing - penertrative damage is increased to reflect lack of horizontal protection.
This system is the basis for most naval wargames using models - it may be an idea to see if you could find a set from somewhere as they would have a ready built system for points, damage, weapons etc.
The other area to think off is special hits - e.g. steering, magazines, radio room, engine rooms etc.
Finally , for the AI, you might think of building some national characteristics - the British navy tended to engage on all occasions, while germany might be a little more cautious and France and Italy could be a little fragile on morale - happy to engage, but looking to withdraw if damaged. Another aspect could be the Japanese would be good at night. I know you have only talked about English and german, but, once the model is established, it should be easy to extend to other nations.:2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Thanks a lot King Kurt! :2thumbsup: Sounds pretty straightforward to implement too. Right now I'm working on terrain generation and will hopefully have some screenshots ready in 2 weeks, by then I'll also put back the link to my forum in my signature.



and happy to help


Sounds interesting, what can you help with? Content making, programming or research?

When it comes to Italian, French, Japanese and American navies I'd love to include that too (especially if there's a campaign mode you could then as British move ships between the Med, Atlantic and Pacific and similar for USA), but it depends on whether I'll find coworkers. I know a forum where I might find some, but they'll not trust me until I've shown I can at least make a good terrain rendering engine ~:) I'll include both water and land rendering (to later be able to include functions for missions where you can raid ports, cover land troops, evacuate/insert troops, bypass coastal batteries etc.)

[Rodion Romanovich]

Oh and by the way, one question I really need to hear opinions on at this early stage is how large (in kilometers) to make the maps. It's of great importance when I make the terrain engine.

[King Kurt]

If possible - I like to set challenges!! - 2 maps would be best. One would be a strategic map and would be a theatre of operations - the Med, bits of the Atlantic, the Channel, North Sea and Norway for example. There forces would move on say an hourly basis and the search functions would be carried out. For the tactical action you would switch to a tactical map. The tactical map should allow movement out of gun range, so if you made it about 1.5 times the maximum range of the biggest gun, then that would probably do. A quick look on the internet shows the range of a Japaneese 18 inch gun to be about 45,000m so if your map was say 60 to 70 km square, that would be OK.
If you can find it, it might be worth tracking down a game called Destroyer Command - I picked it up 2nd hand from Blockbuster for £1!!. It gives a good movement and map system. You can zoom in and out on the map and set your course and speed. You then set the speed of the game from real time through to very fast. For passage through to a point, you set your course and speed then set the game on max speed. The instant you get a report - sighting etc, the game automaticly slows down to near real time. You can then pause, sort out what you want to do them play out the battle a normal speed.
The heart of a good naval game is the tension of the search, followed by the rush of the battle - get that right and you are on a winner.:2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Thanks, good tips! Here's what I've thought of:
- map is of almost unlimited size, i.e. you can move VERY, VERY far away if you want to. But only some 60 kilometers square or so will be planned ground, the rest will fill up with some standard types of ground that repeats itself (map maker makes sure the edges of the planned ground goes well with the edges where ground is repeated).
- maximum depth under sea that you can see - 50 meters
- maximum altitude you can put camera view at - the altitude of the bridge on your flagship. If you send up fighters etc. you can put camera higher up, and thus the horizon moves further away, depending on the altitude of the camera. I'm planning to later extend to a campaign or strategical level map, but the first version will only have a battle map. I'll however in the first version already build the structure with a future addition of strategy level map in mind, so I don't need to rewrite that much code.

[Harald Den BlåToth]

http://www.naval-history.net/