Russian 'Battle'

[Kraxis]

'Reds' vs 'Blacks' (http://www.fazed.org/video/view/?id=130)

There we can see tribal warfare in the making. Not much actual fighting, yeah you see a few people gang up on fallen enemies, but in general the flanks stay clear of each other and let the centers try to push each other out of the way.

Give these guys shields and spears and we would have a typical tribal battle.

We have the warm-up phase where the warriors stand around and pat each other on the back in a big clump.
Then we have the yellperiod, where they gain the courage to actually get into the fight by singing songs and throwing insults at their enemy. This also includes a few brave individuals stepping out of line and 'challenging' the enemy in front of their comrades.
Then slowly they advance on each other, the rear ranks clearly pushing to get the frontranks ahead, until finally a very short charge.
The main battle is then a pure pushfest. It was very interesting to see how the 'battle' revolved around the center, until it had turned some 120 degrees, but then I wonder what happened. I couldn't make out if it was the 'reds' or the 'blacks' that won. The 'reds' held the field, but their right flank had clearly collapsed and had many men down in the ensuing rout. Again something interesting. Not much actual fighting intially but plenty of pushing, but in the rout a lot of damage was deal out, as in real battles.

Any would-be historian should take a look at this.

And for the rest of you, enjoy at this stupid behaviour.

[solypsist]

ive seen a lot of these vids - they're hooligans from rival soccer teams. that's why there are no guns or anything you'd take to a REAL fight. usually these kinds of matches are when there's a game that day and a bunch of rival fans take the train tothe game. you get the local club (or gang of rabid fans) who organize to prevent the visiting team hooligans from making the run from the depot tothe stadium.

[Faust|]

The football explanation makes some sense, it doesn't look like actual fighting. And in that way, I guess, it IS similar to tribal warfare.

Looks the the right side of the reds disintegrated and the blacks funnelled that way, leaving half the reds standing there.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I can't see the video :( it just stops when I click start...

[Kraxis]

Yeah it seems like that... So who won?

Apparently the 'Reds' broke first, but the 'Blacks' couldn't contain their pursuit it seems, and left the 'Reds' to claims the field.

And yes, they are hooligans.

Another things I find to be connected with tribal European battles is the fact that once they are connected they begin throwing stuff over the front ranks to hit the rear ranks of the enemy. In fact they hit pretty well, something that goes against those historians that argue that it was too dangerous to throw javelins and the likeover the heads of the front ranks. Apparently the human abilities in this department are adequate enough.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Hey, forget about Medieval: Total War II. Gimme Euro-hooligans: Total War instead!

I would so love to move these guys around my screen and try some proper pin and flanking strategies. Awesome. :2thumbsup:

[Rodion Romanovich]

Haha this time I saw the video and it's as awesome as I imagined after reading the posts here. Really cool with the taunting before battle and that guy leading the red going ahead of his force pointing forward before the charge really looked like one of those RTW unit captains ~:)

[Dutch_guy]

So what are they firing at each other ?

After the Reds broke and ran, which left their right flank isolated and fairly safe, I'd conclude the Blacks are the winners...

Hope things don't go this way after the Muslim vs Gay soccer match... ~;)

:balloon2:

:balloon2:

[Husar]

I thought I heard police sirens before the reds and blacks started to run away?
Ok, mayb as well have been a car alarm, but I don´t know how russian police sirens sound.

[Faust|]

Yeah it seems like that... So who won?

Apparently the 'Reds' broke first, but the 'Blacks' couldn't contain their pursuit it seems, and left the 'Reds' to claims the field.


The blacks in the front of their left side pursued the formerly thinned and then broken reds opposite them. Simple mob motion was responsible for the rest of the blacks funnelling after them. This happened to leave the rest of the reds standing there. At this point the blacks have more able people available. The problem here is then a legal one :laugh4: . To sweep away the other reds the blacks would have either had to reform and count on the reds to do the same, or turn to actual fighting: both risky from a legal standpoint. There was no victor, I'd say. Victory for all practical purposes was made inaccessible to the blacks when they broke a portion of the opponent that was too small. :2thumbsup:

And I think the sirens are car alarms.

[Upxl]

I think the blacks start routing because they’re rear was attacked.
So they pushed themselves true the red line and start running to the opposite direction they came from.
The reds start following them but to soon.
So you get a big chaos with red and black mixed up.

And the Sirene is definitely a car alarm.

[Kraxis]

No, I think the 'Reds' that come after the 'Blacks' are in fact people who break off from the 'Reds' left flank. If you look on the ground you will notice that the majority of routers 'cut down' are 'Reds'.
I really doubt the 'Reds' outflanked the 'Blacks' as they were clearly outnumbered and in a much denser group (which was why they could push the 'Blacks' right back). Also take note that 10-15 seconds prior to the break you see 'Reds' from their right flank break off and flee. Clearly that flank was being pushed far more than they could take.

And I agree, I could easily imagine two TW players controling these guys, frantically clicking to charge, reform and flank. Too bad they were Impetuous and Undisciplined.

They are throwing stuff, but mostly they are lobbing flares at each other. Dangerous if you get it in your hair or under your shirt/jacket, but as you can see it will just drop to the ground mostly.

I find this little clip hugely interesting as you can see, but at the same time I dispise the act. I guess I allow myself to be interested as it is two groups who wanted it and were stupid enough to do it, thus letting me analyze it rationally.

[Major Robert Dump]

Way more blacks than reds


And the red in the bottom of the left corner gets his torsoe/arm area caught on fire by one of the flares lobbed by his a genuis on his own side, it happens at the very beginning of the contact

[Upxl]

Yes but when he stopped focusing on the rout for a second or so and goes back to the scene of the battle you'd notice a pretty numerous group of reds remaining.
So I think those where the ones who attacked the rear of the black's thus causing the rout.

[Ironside]

From what I can see it's an assymetrical hit of the frontlines. The "leader" of the red (the guy in grey sweater) is on red's left flank but quite quickly he's ending up in the middle on that side. By some reason most of the blacks is going to the other flank.

That explains the difference on the flanks. The blacks is slowly pushing back red's right flank, and some skirmishers does a outflanking on that line.

My guess is that reinforcing the line took too much people from the middle, because if you look carefully it's the middle that breaks and run first. It's hard to see but it looks like that a few blacks broke through the line left to the lightpost (notice how fast the reds are moving backwards towards that lightpost the seconds before the line breaks), they only run through there (they'll end up infront of the big blob of fleeing reds), but it seems to be enough to get red's right flank to flee "through" the car in the way. The following pursuit gives the red the field though as all the black forces goes into the pursuit and leaves no strength left to defeat red's left flank.

As for the winner, it's hard to say. Black won the battle, but is shattered by the pursuit. A quick attack by the remaining reds can devastating and give a major victory against the unorganised and shattered black. If black's able to re-organize, the'll easily crush the remaining reds, who's even more outnumbered now.

[Upxl]

To bad it stopped.
I don’t think the fight was over just yet.
Those remaining reds looked like they were going to engage the pursuing enemy/

Either way I think this gives us a good idea how a battle was fought.
Especially barbarian style.

Imagine what kind of thread this would be when we’ve got a real battle on tape.
Any more of these?

[Kraxis]

I think a real battle would see a lot of silence... Or it would simply not be shown (we don't need to see people get killed).

Anyway, the 'Reds' that are left come from the left flank. Some of the men from that part does try to interfere with the rout, and that is why you see 'Reds' running around in the middle of the 'Black' pursuit, when logically they should have been to their front.

Also note how the remaining 'Reds' seem to compress into a very tight group, clearly they are not in the mood for more fighting just then, they seek the security of the flock.
Besides if the had truly outflanked the 'Blacks' we wold not have seen the 'Blacks' run in a single direction, they would have scattered, with perhaps a majority going to the right out towards the road. The 'Reds' that flee start out fleeing in a fan-like way, some going to the left of our cameraman, some directly under him and a lot going right around the building. And I think I even saw a few going bit more to the right.

[solypsist]

yeah the Reds are definitely the visiting team's fans.


Way more blacks than reds


And the red in the bottom of the left corner gets his torsoe/arm area caught on fire by one of the flares lobbed by his a genuis on his own side, it happens at the very beginning of the contact

[Ianofsmeg16]

I wonder if those russians now their fight is being analysed by a bunch of Total War players?

[Kraxis]

I wonder if those russians now their fight is being analysed by a bunch of Total War players?
Ahhh, but that is the cool part. Armchair battleanalysts!

[Upxl]

I think a real battle would see a lot of silence... Or it would simply not be shown (we don't need to see people get killed)..


Pls dont say that If I would to give you a real life battle of the midle ages you would'nt watch it.
I'm sure you wont be able to resist it.
Not in this community.

[Kraxis]

Well, if it came from a timetravel, then perhaps. But I thought you meant giving these people weapons and letting them have a go at it.

While fascinating indeed, it would be overshadowed by the carnage. Most people would not like that at all.

[TheSilverKnight]

Interesting use of tactics employed by both sides...truly tribal warfare in the making. Thank you for the interesting link.

IMO I believe it was a 'blacks' win. The red's right flank collapsed and the blacks just broke through them like power surging through a cable cord. Arm them with some spears and shields and it might be like pre-European tribal warfare in Russia :laugh4: