Makedon Army

[BigTex]

I've been srewing around with makedon the past few days, and i've ben wondering. How did the Makedonians form their army's? The hypastistai are an interesting unit, very powerful. I know in reality they formed into phalanxes, so why aren't they able to form a phalanx in EB. Also i've been noticing that the loose and tight formations change them very little, one is tighter with less organization, while the other is very tight shoulder to shoulder but large gaps between the ranks. Also i've noticed that you've put in the new mining system, all i have to say is wow about that. It has truly made some provinces more strategically important regardless of having a port. Truly it makes dacia rich also, which adds to why Trajan invaded there in the first place. I was wondering when will the farming script be added?

[Dooz]

Just a note on one of your points: a member of the EB team has mentioned that the mining incomes will be distinctly decreased in the future versions. No surprise there I suppose. I have 3 huge, well supplied armies as the Getai, with nice garrisons to boot, and I'm still making a 5 digit income. I mean hell, I'm not complaining as far as my current campaign goes, but yeah, makes sense they'd be nerfed.

[Cheexsta]

I'm also playing as Makedon, and currently have around 4 or so mining provinces. Pella is, by far, the most profitable, making around 15,000 per turn just from mining alone. Athens, Byzantium, Nikomedia and Sardika are all making bucketloads, too.

As for the Hypaspistai, sources aren't consistant with what they really used in battle. Some mention phalanxes, others mention that they're very capable swordsmen, and some mention javelins. EB gets two out of these three points done, by giving them spears as a secondary weapon and making them fight in a classical Greek phalanx (though the animation is buggy, so using this will cause your game to CTD...).

[paullus]

Could someone say what sort of levels the mines are being reduced to? I kinda thought 10000 or 15000 mnai (which would equal, in the latter case, 250 talents ) was a little much for a quarter turn. Are there some good sources on mining income, either in mined material weights, or the worth of the mined material?

And Polybius gives a few good descriptions of Makedonian armies in the 3rd and 2nd centuries. I don't recall hypaspists in any of them. I do recall the main phalanx, merc/allied Hellenes, and merc/allied Illyrians, Agrianians (oh, and did I mention I'm really excited about the inclusion of those???), and other ethnic troops from around Makedonian borders, such as Gauls (from Illyria or Tylis) and Thraikians.

[QwertyMIDX]

The Athenian Mines at Laurian (mid-sized mines really) brough in about 1000 talent a year. So 250 really isn't off at all, but there would be outflow in terms of payment of worker (or buying of slaves) as well as maintinance/expansion that would cut down on income. There are also larger concerns, getting the abstract numbers right while messing up the accuracy (or as close as it's possible to force the RTW engine to get) of the economic system would be silly.

[pezhetairoi]

But still, a drop from 10000 to 250 is a bit excessive isn't it?

I remember playing Baktria on the 10000-mnai EDB, and I had three fullstacks comfortably managed. The moment I changed it to the 250-mnai EDB I toppled into -5000 every turn. It got so painful that for the sake of continuity I had to change it back to the 10000 mani EDB.

[QwertyMIDX]

Oh, I'm not going back to the old mining income either, figure about 1/3 of what you are getting in .73.

[pezhetairoi]

that is the single most reassuring EB thing i've heard all month :)

[oudysseos]

The Athenian Mines at Laurian (mid-sized mines really) brough in about 1000 talent a year. So 250 really isn't off at all, but there would be outflow in terms of payment of worker (or buying of slaves) as well as maintinance/expansion that would cut down on income. There are also larger concerns, getting the abstract numbers right while messing up the accuracy (or as close as it's possible to force the RTW engine to get) of the economic system would be silly.

What are your sources for these figures? The Mines of Chalcidice and the Rhodope Massif that came under the control of Philip II of Macedon (you know, Alexandre's dad) were said to have produced 1000 talents a year in the fourth century BCE but had declined a hundred years later. Average Athenian mining income (during the classical age) has been calculated at 65 talents a year. I am paraphrasing from Egpyt, Greece and Rome by Charles Freeman (Oxford University Press). I don't know what factors you are using to convert from talents to minai, and I do realise that strict accuracy in individual numbers can lead to a bad result overall because of the game engine. But is there a script or something in EB to reflect that mine production decreases over time? After all no-one is working the mines at Laurian now.